Subject: SMML VOL 1174 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:57:18 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: world war one mines 2: Re: 'On the Town' 3: Fine Arts Model U.S.S. SC 648 4: Re: movies, daughters, Forrestals and Savannahs 5: Re: Prideful brag? 6: Re: U.S.S. Cabot 7: Re: Grosser Kurfurst (Mark Krumrey) 8: Airbrush Laser 9: Re: French warship prefix 10: HMS. Ajax Re: Beware Profile Morskie # 1 11: ICM ESSEX 12: Re: Glencoe N.S. Savanah 13: Prideful Boast photos (per Lorna's Request!) 14: FSM Joke Article 15: Re: NS Savannah 16: Mulberry 17: New Books 18: Nauticus Hobbies 19: USS Wasp 20: Ship Happenings -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: WHITE ENSIGN MODELS.. NEWS.. and AOTS YAMATO/GAMBIER BAY 2: FS: Ship plans -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "David Griffith" Subject: Re: world war one mines Dear Pavel, Your query brought back memories of my youth. In the local park ther used to be an old mine, empty, deactivated and with a slot in it to collect money for seamen's charities. As it is one of my very early memories it must have been placed there prior to the late 1950s. It has continued to stay there until my adulthood, at least, so my memories of its size are not going to be too clouded by the fact that things always seem to have been much bigger in the years of our childhood. I do not know if it was a First or Second World War mine. Neither do I know if it was British or German. In shape and size it was not quite spherical, being slightly taller than wide. I think it was about 90cm in transverse diameter and about 110cm in height. These sizes are very approximate. It had a round plate bolted on top, and around this, six or eight horns about 15cm long and sticking out at 45 degrees. In use there would have been a heavy anchor weight attached to the bottom of the mine, from which the cable would have unwound. I have no idea of the size or shape of this. I hope this is of use, but I make no guarantees as to its accuracy! Regards, David PS: You could also try www.warships1.com The section on Weapons of the World has details of British and German mines, designations, charges, whether or not they worked, but nothing about dimensions unfortunately. Regards again -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Mark Shannon" Subject: Re: 'On the Town' If you are expecting many shots of the ship, you will be disappointed. It is basically a backdrop for the first and last shots, along with the shipyard. The plot of the musical is that three somewhat fresh-off-the-farm sailors have a 24-hour shore leave in New York City. One wants to see all the sites, one isn't sure what he's looking for, one just wants to have some fun. They each meet the girl of their dreams, get caught up in mischief, and one of them has a museum professor convinced he's a throwback Neanderthal and is chased throughout. The final scene has all the problems resolved at the gangway, and as they go back aboard, the next three fresh-off-the-farm sailors come down, ready for their 24 hours. Music by Leonard Bernstein, dancing by Gene Kelly, singing by Frank Sinatra, lots of slapstick shtick, I believe Ethyl Merman is the taxi driver. Some cute humor from a somewhat more innocent but suggestive time (One of the best songs is where Frank Sinatra keeps saying where he wants to go, from a 1920's guidebook, and the taxi driver corrects him about the current status of the sites (one's torn down, the Chrysler Building is surpassed by the Empire State Building, and the other isn't used for what he thought anymore) finishing each correction with, 'Let's go over to my place'. Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Diodor@aol.com Subject: Fine Arts Model U.S.S. SC 648 To celebrate the recent publishing of my book Splinter Fleet - The Wooden Subchasers of World War II by The Naval Institute Press, I bit the bullet and ordered a model of my command, SC 648, over a year ago from Fine Arts Models, Royal Oak, MI. In my prime years I could have built such a model but did not have the time. Now, in my twilight years with arthritic hands and diminishing energy, I decided to indulge myself by purchasing this model, which, after a 13 month waiting period, is finally standing in magnificent display in my home in Fort Myers, Florida. I have not been disappointed. The model has been beautifully built and executed in 1:3/8 scale. It measures slightly over 41" in length and has a polished walnut base and a leaded glass case to protect it from dust. Interestingly enough, it was built in Latvia by Russian craftsmen, with whom Gary Kohs, the president of Fine Arts Models, has an arrangement for selling them in the U.S.A. As an old subchaser skipper of WWII I was prepared to be very critical of this model but must admit I have been pleasantly surprised. There are only two features I would have done differently had I built it myself. (1) The model's mast is topped with an SR-2 radar dome. In actuality, SC 648 had no radar until very late in the war. During the 23 months I was aboard her we had no radar. Radar was not installed until February, 1945 while the ship was still in the Philippines. I would have built the model with its mast without the radar dome and with its crow's nest mounted for lookout. (2) The model's deck is painted battleship gray like most everything else on the exterior surfaces. In actuality, SC 648's wooden deck was kept in its natural state. We holystoned the deck two or three times while I was aboard--something the men hated to do because it was backbreaking work--but we never applied varnish or any type of finish. We may have used linseed oil at various times, but of that I am not sure. People are surprised when I tell them the decks were kept natural. ("Didn't they rot?" etc.) But remember, these vessels were expendable. Most of their naval career existed only 3 to 4 years from commissioning to decommissioning, although plenty of them stayed around for years afterwards. As to what kind of wood was used for the deck, I am not sure but I believe it may have been spruce. The vessels were constructed in 49 small boatyards all over the U.S. and the boatbuilders used native woods easily available at their particular locations. White oak was a favorite wood for ribs and hull planking. Yellow pine and spruce were used for various purposes. The details on the model are very nice. The mousetraps can be raised into their firing position, and eight rocket mousetrap projectiles are furnished (painted black whereas in actuality we painted them battleship gray like the rest of the ship). The interior of the pilot house is finished off, with its chartroom, table and drawers for charts, etc. The 8' wherry on the stern is very realistic, as are the oval life rafts. Details like running lights, electrical cables, halyards, guy wires, etc. are correct and very realistic. A word about the shipment of the model. It all came in a solid wooden crate that measured approx. 60" long, 40" wide, 36" high. The model itself was in a smaller wooden box with all edges and corners sealed with tape to keep out dust. It took a long time to remove all the foam peanuts surrounding the model box, the glass case, and the cradle and base. I have found a space in my garage to store all the shipping parts for when the time comes to re-ship. And one last comment about models of WWII subchasers: No one has yet come up with a kit for this vessel, though there have been two or three for the WWI subchasers, for which a little "cult" exists. It is my hope that the 438 subchasers of WWII that did such sterling work in every theater of the war, spilling plenty of blood along the way in ten times the action that WWI subchasers faced, will, in time, develop its own cult of enthusiasts. Besides being called "The Splinter Fleet" the subchasers of WWII can be called "The Forgotten Fleet" since they have truly been overlooked in every sense of the word. This fact sometimes mystifies me because they did so much and were so much a part of that war. By the way, of the entire 438 subchasers built and commissioned during the war there was not a single lemon. They were truly the "little ships that could," performing a countless myriad of tasks in sometimes the most dreadful conditions. I am proud to have served on one. Ted R. Treadwell, Lt. USNR (Ret.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: raisingirl@mindspring.com Subject: Re: movies, daughters, Forrestals and Savannahs hello all.... Rod Dauteuil wrote: >> leave in New York. While I've never seen the movie, it is in color, and the scene in the trailer shows a Benson/Livermore/Gleaves class DD at a dock. May be worth seeing for other color shots of this ship. << Another interesting movie from this standpoint is an old potboiler from WWII called "Destroyer," with Edward G. Robinson (yeah, see?). I haven't seen it in a long time, but I recall some great construction and launching sequences involving the USS Hobby (DD-610). Of course, we postwar types still love "The Caine Mutiny" because of all the lovely DMS views (including the USS Doyle and the USS Thompson -- I believe those were the ships -- not to mention a cameo by the USS Richard B.Anderson).... ;) A.J. Owens wrote: >> I guess she's a non-typical kid because she'd rather actually do something than play video games when she's inside but I think it's great! I'm going to have scan some photos of it now! << This is *so* cool!!! I'm not only happy that you've managed to get a young person interested in our hobby, but a girl, no less. It's almost enough to make me ask where I can get a daughter just like her! Please do put some pictures of her model up so we can see them and compliment her work! Ed Grune asked: >> What could be interesting it the USS Forrestal from Italieri. I see from the "R" designation that its a re-release. I am unfamiliar with it. What is the opnion of it. What era does it represent? << Last appearance before SLEP (late 1970s). It's not a bad kit. The decals suck rocks, especially the hull numbers, and there's a bulge on the port side of the island that I can't tell what it's supposed to represent. One of the waist cat tracks also runs onto the port elevator (but you'll want to fill in the cat tracks and elevator outlines anyhow). There are some little quirks to it, but all in all, I love this kit. It needs a little attention and a hangar deck, but I really liked this kit. It's nowhere near as horrible as Bert Kinzey would have you believe. You can use it as the basis for just about any Forrestal (except the Ranger, unless you want to build those gun sponsons. Hey, there's an idea for the resin guys!) :) John wrote, regarding n/s Savannah: >> 1 there are raised wooden deck lines on the deck did the Savannah have wooden decks? << No. She has steel decks that are covered in green Neotex (just like the s/s United States). The only wood I can recall seeing on her decks was the grating on the bridge wing. Sand the wood deck lines off and paint the decks green (see below). If you really want to be anal-retentive, add the container tie-downs if you're building her late in her career. :) >> 2. the sparse instruction say to paint the deck green, What shade of green FS#? << I can't give you an FS match off the top of my head, but I think you're looking for kind of a medium green with maybe just a very slight tinge of olive drab in it. If I had an FS deck handy, I could tell you. Anyone care to step up and help us? ;) >> 3. on the box lid the picture shows the Savannah as having a golden color bottom but the again Sparse instructions say red What shade of red? << Having seen this ship many times at low tide I can assure you that her bottom is most assuredly red. (I think the gold hue may be a trick the artist played to depict the ship in morning light; with the haze and the sunlight it would appear slightly golden. Or maybe you had a misprinted box. I don't know -- just a guess.) A slightly dark conventional red (i.e. a red you'd find in a generic Testors bottle) will work just fine. A couple notes about the Savannah: there's an excellent resource on this ship put together by Neal Elosge, who's a nuclear engineer by trade. I don't have the URL handy, but it's on my personal links page. Go to http://www.mindspring.com/~raisingirl and click on "Personal," then on that page click on "links to favorite sites," and it should be under the "maritime" heading. I contributed some stuff to Neal for this site, and it's a good resource. Also try to find (I think) the August 1962 National Geographic, which is a rich pictorial resource. Second -- and this is me being anal-retentive -- the Glencoe kit is okay enough from the box, but if you want to accurize this kit you *really* have your work cut out for you. I started to accurize one, but when I realized I'd be throwing away just about everything but the hull, I pretty much gave up. There have been three major kits of the Savannah I'm aware of -- one by Ideal (I think that's the origin of the Glencoe mold), one by Pyro (remarketed by Life-Like), and one by Revell, which has been re-popped about three times over the years. By far, the Revell kit blows the other two away. If you're building the Glencoe kit for fun, then go for it (and it makes an interesting model, and is a really neat nostalgia trip). But if you want an accurate model from the box, find the old Revell kit -- it's by far the best. Of course, if you're just doing this for fun, disregard my rantings and build the Glencoe kit and have lots of fun doing that. It's not the most accurate kit, but it can be fun. :) jodie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Prideful brag? Mr. Owens, Be sure to put a cover on that model and protect it. One day when Mary is off to college and comes home for a visit, you can pull that model out and have great trip down memory lane. That's what I recently did with my son (now 23). He came home to visit and we started talking about my coaching his little league baseball team. While he and his Mom were talking about my deficiencies as a coach, I went to the office where I build my models, and brought out some of his old War Hammer figures he painted some 15 years back. He tired of them after a few years, so I "confiscated" them and put them in a box. When I opened the box his eyes lit up just like when he a child. "I can't believe you kept this stuff"! He said. We talked about them for hours! When he went home, he took the figures with him. Someday in the future, your daughter's little DD will spark some great memories for you both. Prideful brag? More like memories in the bank! Here's some advice from a dad that's been there. Enjoy this time while you can. It doesn't last long. You will work at the office all your life, but the time your kids really want to spend time with their parents is short. Enjoy it while you can. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://okclive.com/flagship/ You can now pay using your Visa / MasterCard "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: WestCelt@aol.com Subject: Re: U.S.S. Cabot Paul, Thank you. I e-mailed my address directly to you. If you are interested have photographs I took of her during the late 1970s while I was in Spain and she was part of the Spanish Navy. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Grosser Kurfurst (Mark Krumrey) Hi Mark, In one of the web based modelling magazines there was 3 part article about painting ICM's "Koenig" but the same will apply to "Kurnfurst", I have been looking for a link but so far no joy. But I will trace it for you asap. Regards D.P. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: Airbrush Laser Listees: FSM does an Aprils Fools article every year. A few years ago it was about a plastic eating bug that infected sealed plastic collector kits and ate everything up in the sealed kit boxes that the collectors are so careful to keep sealed. Also, the photo looks suspiciously like a FSM staff member in disguise. Take care, Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL NRG member -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: French warship prefix I believe DP is correct in saying that the French Navy did not use a prefix with their warship names. I am not sure, however, whether the Free French Naval Force (FNFL) followed suit as there have been references using FNFL ahead of the ship's name. This may, however, have just been a means of differentiation, between the FNFL and Vichy French warships, used by the media. It is interesting that, while it is customary in the US and Britain to refer to a ship as "she", both France and Germany use the masculine prefix. This may seem odd when referring to JEANNE D'ARC as "he" but it is no odder than using "she" when talking about such ships as IRON DUKE or DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: MMclau1079@aol.com Subject: HMS. Ajax Re: Beware Profile Morskie # 1 Recently, I had the very good fortune and luck to talk with a naval historian who subsequently sent me several copies of HMS. Ajax's 1935 official "as fitted plans." I already had Alan Raven's book on British Cruisers of World War Two, which has a profile plan and several photo's of HMS. Ajax. I also, have several other reference books including Profile Morskie # 1 that I had hoped to be able to use in correcting the flaws and ommisions in detail on the old Airfix kit. When I received the "as fitted plans," I was stunned at the detail and decided to compare it against the other references I had collected. Although, the appearance of the ship evolved over her active life, many designed features and intent of her designers remained the same. The official 1935 "as fitted plans" used in conjunction with the Alan Raven book, revealed many factual errors in the plan drawings of the Pofile Morskie book. For instance, the deck area shown to be wood planked around the funnel and twin 4- inch HA guns, should in fact be steel decked. The blank area around the 4-inch guns themselves, should be wood planked. The intent of her designers was probably to reduce the standing fatigue of her gun crews rather than for appearance. These same isolalted wood decking features can be found around different navigational and sighting equipment on top of her bridge deck. The boat deck area around the former catapult, should also be wood planked. If you look closely at page 351. of the Alan Raven book, you will see a 1943 refit picture of HMS.Ajax, which you can see the wood planking to the right of the crain. If you have a copy of The Encyclopedia Of Sea Warfare by Leisure Books, you will find a 1942 plan drawing of HMS.Ajax, which shows some of these features and seems to accurate though less detalied when compared to the "as fitted plans" and the Alan Raven book. Even the rudder is of the wrong shape in the Profile Morskie plan drawing, which surprisingly the old Airfix kit got generally right. These were just a few examples of the errors I noticed. Between poor scholarship and out right intellectual theft you read about on these model sites by some manufacturers and publishers, you have to protect yourself by either doing your homework or (as in my case) getting lucky through someones generosity. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Phil M. Gollin" Subject: ICM ESSEX With regards to the continuing discussion re. the possible/probable I.C.M. Essex class Carrier - The Hannants (a large model mail-order company in the U.K.) web-site lists (only) I.C.M.s two Japanese Heavy Cruisers, HMS Hood and an Essex Class Carrier for "future release". Maybe some of the retailer's on the list can provide some more definite info. Phil -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: Glencoe N.S. Savanah Hi SMMLies, Savanah kit, The decks are steel. I don't know why they made them that way. I also have it and built one about 25 years ago from another manufacture? The decks I believe are green and a mid shade not too dark not too light. The bottom from the photo I seen was two shades of red. A red like used on the SS United States as your boot topping and an anti-fouling red below. KTB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: AJOWENS@aol.com Subject: Prideful Boast photos (per Lorna's Request!) Hi all, Attached (should be) a zip file with 2 jpgs of Mary's DD - 1 of her holding it and 1 by itself. She will be very pleased to hear that she's now world-famous! I have her with me every other weekend (divorced) and we always try to learn something new every day. I've always enjoyed history and feel that whatever I can do to make learning fun and enjoyable instead of a chore is to the good! I've even had calls from her teachers complimenting me on her talks because she'll go back to class and tell everyone about her visit to the Art Museum or the airshow or the Highland Games - whatever was going on that time - and how interesting and correct she is! I can't describe how good that makes me feel! She definitely wants to do more ships, she loves making all kinds of things. She'll happily spend a couple of hours braiding string and make herself a doll out of it if it's a rainy day! My only mixed emotion is that being only 8 now (she'll be 9 in June) she's likely going to surpass my skills by the time she's 10! Hopefully she won't want to embarrass ol' dad too much! A.J. Owens Hi AJ, WOWWWWWWWWWWWW, they're great. I'll personally make sure they are uploaded to Mary's new page on the SMML site ASAP. Mistress Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "James Kloek" Subject: FSM Joke Article April Fool's again for FSM. They did a similar thing last year with their final page, "History You Can Model", only last year it was "History You Can't Model" and was a whole page on a supposed Viet Nam version of the F7 Cutlass fighter from the '50s. Any of you sports fans remember Sidd Finch? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Ken P LeMaster" Subject: Re: NS Savannah I'm sure someone else will send in this url since I got it from an earlier SMML, but here are some good photos of the Savannah. http://home.aol.com/nealelosge/savannah/index.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Plato Software" Subject: Mulberry Geoff Futter had a multi-part series in one of the UK magazines during the 1980s. I think it was Airfix Magazine but have not yet indexed the ones in which they appeared so cannot recall exactly which issues. However, he did cover all the piers, roadways, caissons etc., with scale drawings. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "John Rule" Subject: New Books Just got home from my favourite hobby shop, and my pocket is considerably lighter than before. I bought the new Hasegawa Ashigara, but haven't opened it yet. My main purchases were the following books. US Heavy Cruisers in Action Profile Morskie (Polish)...................De Ruyter Profile Morskie (Polish)...................Caio Dulio Okrety Swiata (Polish).....................HMS Repulse Barwy Okretow(Polish)....................US Navy 1941 to 1945 Okrety Lotnicze Japonii (Polish) The last of these books is a 280 page paperback book on Japanese aircraft carrying ships. It is filled with drawings and photos covering ships from the Hosho to the modern Kurama. The book is very detailed, it's main drawback being that it is written in Polish. The photos do however have english captions. This looks like a very good buy. The first book is one of the Squadron books which was described in a previous SMML. It is great value. The two Profile Morskie books follow their usual format, and contain a separate sheet(s) of excellent drawings and a colour profile. I really like this series of books. The Repulse book is very nice with excellent drawings, some colour profiles of fair quality, although the colour register isn't great. The book on the USN looks very good with lots of really clear photos, colour profiles and even some colour photos. I know it is a disease, but I can't resist buying books. I also collect models, but am too embarassed to tell you how many I have. As long as it keeps us happy and does no-one else any harm why should we not indulge ourselves. Sincerely, John Rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: Nauticus Hobbies Just received my Tamiya USS Indianapolis and various Skywave kits from Nauticus Hobbies. They have the best prices I've found on the internet, by far! Indianapolis was offered at a special rate to SMMLies, and the Skywave kit prices equalled or beat by a considerable margin all other on-line vendors' prices. Postage charged is also much lower than I've seen elsewhere. Packaging and shipping were also very good. They also went out of their way to deal with some shipping concerns for me. I highly recommend this company if you want to purchase kits online. Email id is cdecker@ptc.com Not affiliated with Nauticus in any way, just a very satisfied customer. Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: USS Wasp Hi there: I have one of those old Revell USS Wasp kits, the one with the angled deck. It originally came with a tiny Gemini space capsule which has gone to that big parts bin in the sky. Does anybody out there have one they would like to part with, or would be able to make a resin copy for me, for a fee of course..... Thank you Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Ship Happenings The US Navy's newest surface combatant will be placed in commission on 11 March 2001 in Norfolk, VA. I got a stem-to-stern tour last weekend of USS Winston S. Churchill (DDG 81), and it's one extremely impressive state-of-the-art warship. According the CO, the ship is far more technologically advanced and mission-capable than even the earlier Aegis destroyers built in the mid-1990s. Top speed is in excess of 34 knots and she'll stop on a dime. Laser guided 5-inch gun can reach out 60 nautical miles. The latest Aegis destroyer being built, USS Shoup (DDG 86), was launched at Pascagoula, MS, on 24 February 2001. Also of note, the decommissioned battleship USS Iowa is being towed from storage at Newport, RI, to San Francisco, CA, where the ship will be eventually opened up as a floating museum/tourist attraction. MWL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "WEM" Subject: WHITE ENSIGN MODELS.. NEWS.. and AOTS YAMATO/GAMBIER BAY New from White Ensign Models: HASEGAWA 1/700 HAGURO 11.91 Pounds **NEW TOOLING** HASEGAWA 1/700 ASHIGARA 13.99 **NEW TOOLING** BACK IN STOCK after 4 months absence... GUNZE SANYO 1/350 LUSITANIA 51.05 Pounds ($74.00) Shipping at cost overseas (typically 8.00 Pounds or £11.20 to the U.S.A.) After seeing an E-Bay sale on the ANATOMY of the SHIP The Battleship Yamato reaching $200.00 at this time, I want to remind folks that we have this book... it IS in print.. for 30.00 Pounds. This translates into $44.00 right now. Shipping uninsured airmail is about 6.00 Pounds ($8.50) to the U.S., and around 5.00 Pounds to Europe. We also have the AOTS GAMBIER BAY at 20 Pounds (about $28.50). Limited supplies on the latter!! Just e-mail me if you require one, or go to http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/wemorder.htm where you can order online. Thanks! Caroline Carter Business Manager White Ensign Models, U.K. Tel : 0870 220 1888 Fax: 0870 220 1786 Home Page for WEM http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: CokerRE@aol.com Subject: FS: Ship plans THE FOLLOWING SHIP PLANS ARE FOR SALE SOVIET WARSHIPS MOSCVA, Soviet helo carrier $10.00 CHAPAYEV, light cruiser 1947 $15.00 KIROV, heavy cruiser 1941 $15.00 Light cruiser circa 1930 $10.00 Battleship never completed 1941 design $25.00 All plans include plan and profile, hull sections, and some details, no scale as all are on reduced size format. Also have a Russian language book comparing the Soviet heavy units (cruisers and battleships) with their foreign counterparts from 1941 to 1980 and includes missile cuisers. Photos are few but the plan profiles are excellent and some fold out for $40.00 Also available a color photo book on the Soviet Navy 1987 which has many nice close up color shots in 8 1/2" x 11 1/2" format $35.00 Reply off-list to PC Coker at cokerre@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume