Subject: SMML VOL 1178 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 01:18:11 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Marys Models 2: Did KATIE have a little sister? 3: Re: Amur class 4: Re: Model Reference Sources 5: MosquitoCon 6: Re: Model Reference Scources 7: Morskie Book 8: Profile Morskie 9: Re: TOOLS (CROSSOVER TWEEZERS) 10: Re: Morske Book Series 11: Re: Miles F.McLaughlin 12: Re: KATIE's little sister 13: Morskie Books 14: Re: Profile Morskie Series 15: GrafSpee part II 16: HMS Orkney 17: British Mines! 18: Re: Did KATIE have a little sister? 19: Re: Camouflage of Town Class - 1940 20: More Jolly Good Books 21: NATO ships in Florida 22: Morske 23: Battleship footage 24: Minesweeper part wanted 25: Hydrodynamics 26: CD recommendation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Show Announcement - Pittsburgh, PA 4/7/01 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: WSW/B-Resina kits from the company formerly known as Rocky Mountain Shipyard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Hi gang, Lets try to keep a civil lid on the very interesting Profile Morskie thread. It would be a pity if things got out of hand down the track. Please also remember that we have a variety of modellers here on SMML, some have extreme cases of AMS, others simply build out of the box for enjoyment, with the majority falling inbetween these two extremes. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Gord and Doreen Smith Subject: Marys Models I gave up playing video games in the Mall when the eight year olds on either side of me would get scores double of mine. At the possible rate of development of Mary's talent, I will have to consider giving up showing off my models pretty soon.. Bravo Zulu Mary Bravo Zulu Dad Gordo CANADA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Did KATIE have a little sister? >> Did the USN ever develop a 203mm/8-in "little sister" of it's 16-in KATIE atomic shell for use aboard the Baltimore or Newport News CAs? << The answer is no. The only 8" Nuclear shell produced during the 1950s was the Mk 33. Yield of the Mk 33 was between 5 and 10 kilotons. Most of these were retired by 1983. Their nuclear cores were remanufactured for the 8" W-79 and W-82 warheads during the 1980s. The 8" Mk 33 was purchased by the Marines and the Army for use with field artillery.. I did do a considerable amount of research on this subject when it was discovered that the USS SALEM had a small seperate 8" magazine with a guard post near the #2 turret magazines. A few suggested that it was for 8" Nuclear Shells. So I did some checking and found that the Navy never purchased 8" Mk 33 Nuclear Shells. They did, however have quite a stockpile of 8" Chemical Munitions up until the mid 1960s. This is probally what the magazine on the SALEM was for the storage of. As for the "Katie" aka (Mk 23); only 50 were manufactured and all were retired by 1962. Yield of the Katie was between 10 and 20 kilotons. John Sheridan, Your Nuclear Guide The only human to defeat the Minbari is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else. : Delenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Amur class >> Anybody know anything about (or have any sources on) the Russian sub AMUR (follow-on to KILO class). I'm looking for sources, models, references, etc. (for a novel that I'm trying to make tech-accurate). << A while back, there was a picture of a submarine (allegedly an "Advanced Kilo") in drydock over on the SubCommittee website. It appeared to be a Kilo with a pumpjet in place of the propeller. I tried searching on the Ron Martini submarine website (a good place to start with thousands of submarine related links), but the sit was down. It's at: http://main.wavecom.net/~rontini/ronpage.html I don't believe there is very much information available on this class, so as far as technical details for a novel, it could be tough. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Model Reference Sources >> As far as the commercial outfits are concerned, follow the suggestion of a Great Philosopher, "Forgive them their sins, for they know not what they do". << Franklyn What drives me up the wall is an outfit that goes to the rare trouble of correcting mistakes in a kit, only to make a second set of errors. Specifically in this case, it's the DML USS Hampton 688 submarine kit. It is a rework of their old USS Dallas kit, and they give you a correct stern to replace the incorrect one on the hull. You cut off the old stern with the incorrect vertical plates on the stern plane, and replace it with one that lacks these plates, has the towed array dispenser, and even correctly scribed stern plane hinges. Add to that a new propeller that is larger, closer to the real thing in shape, and turns in the right direction, unlike the old kit prop. Then, they totally miss with the Hampton bow section and VLS tube doors. Wrong pattern for the doors (3+3 instead of 4+2 on each side of the centerline) and the doors are too small in width by quite a bit. There are hundreds of readily available photos of this class, as it is a current submarine class. Why go to all the trouble to correct a kit, make the expensive molds, and not spend a really minimal amount of money (under $50) for a few books to get this obvious topside detail correct?? Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Jeff Herne Subject: MosquitoCon Craig, Tsk Tsk...the 1/350 Hunt you saw wasn't from Accurate Miniatures, it was Accurate Image Models, my former resin venture with Jon Warneke, now of Commander's. We also produced the USS San Francisco, which you also saw at the show, APD-1 and APD-37s, the PC-461, and the 1/700 USS Salem. All of these kits are currently available through Commanders. Jeff Herne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: royrichey@att.net Subject: Re: Model Reference Scources I have never found a bad scource. I try to compare all plans and drawing to a photo, if available. If the plans don't match the photo then I know there is a problem. If the plan and elevation don't match up then I figure out why. Either way I develope my skills at determining what should be. I also compare drawings from different scources and look for the differences. Sometimes the poorer drawing has the correct configuration for a specific detail. Examples: Most of the drawing for the Scharnhorst class show the wrong propeller alignment, and most of the better plans for the Z-37 to Z-39 series show the wrong pattern fdor the bridge windows.Something that appears wrong can make you dig deeper and that is good. Roy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "John" Subject: Morskie Book Ok I will admit a bit of haste when I mentioned the sour grapes, aspect of my message. but >> Regarding the "sour grapes" comment I don't quite follow the reasoning. I also don't think there was any justification to respond to my comments on a personal level. I could just as easily suggest a sour grapes scenario in which you, Mr. Anderson, are defensive because you don't want to face up to the possibility that the model you painstakingly built based on a Morske book is less accurate than you believed. << I will take exception here the whole point of my models is that I am happy with them as they are built but I as well do not follow only one source, but the whole point is I built it to what I believed is in my mind accurate, and I can handle allot of critics at the lake and tell them it is as close as I could come, non of my models are built for a museum I will leave that to the masters, I have no qualms of misgivings about my lack of mastery in the hobby so I will just close this thread with this there is too little time in life to worry about the small stuff, build to suit the only one that counts. please the only one that matters, then kiss her and take out the Garbage! John Anderson West Coast 1/72nd -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Paul Jacobs" Subject: Profile Morskie I want to thank all of those who have made comments regarding these books. I disagree with those who aver that you should keep quiet if you don't have something nice to say. I myself have no first hand opinion, having only one of these profiles. But I greatly appreciate the critique. I have been repeatedly tempted to buy some more. I can now make knowledgable choices about getting any others. What is the point of forums like SMML, if we don't share our knowledge about kits, materials books etc. good and BAD, with others? Why must we be doomed to perpetuate their mistakes, when they are willing to give us fair, and considered warning? The PM books may serve the needs of some. But based upon what I have now learned, I don't think that they are for me. And I appreciate the heads up on it. Perhaps the criticism here, (and elsewhere?) will encourage PM to produce a better product. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Gord and Doreen Smith Subject: Re: TOOLS (CROSSOVER TWEEZERS) One of the tricks taught me by my wife is to make contact with your little fingers when working on two handed fine painting (in her case threading needles). One hand holds the tweezers and the other the brush and the fingers in contact seem to provide a steady rest as opposed to the free space relation ship if you try to work without the contact. Gordo CANADA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: DJParkins@aol.com Subject: Re: Morske Book Series We cannot believe the personal nature of the attacks on Dave Krakow over his opinions on these books. It seems to us he was only trying to offer his opinion and warn other members about what he feels is a sub-standard product. He seemed to be doing this for two very good reasons - a. to prevent modellers from making mistakes in their models by taking the information in these books at face value and b. to warn of what he thinks appear to be the dubious origins of much of the material included. In this regard, we are surprised that other authors and manufacturers have been so slow to come to his defence. As manufacturers, we believe the points he makes about the 'lifting' of copyright material are so important. Those authors [whether of books OR kits] who actually do their own research or [in the case of kits], generate their own patterns, need to be very very clear about this - and say so! Products from our own Flightpath & Firing Line ranges have been pirated in Europe [and even in the USA, in the case of one Flightpath item]. Product piracy is a dangerous threat to our hobby and most of it at present is coming from China and Eastern Europe. Unless modellers recognise quality and originality in both their kits and their reference books and vote accordingly with their wallets, they will get only one outcome. It is a fool indeed who knows the cost of everything but the true value of nothing. To be clear - it does cost more to get a product right than to get it wrong. It costs more in terms of research and work - and thus, in time - and time has to be paid for. We would respectfully ask those who have replied in a hostile way to Dave Krakow's original posting to reconsider and ask themselves just what kind of product they think they are defending by responding in such a manner. David and Yvonne Parkins, Great Little Ships www.djparkins.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Miles F.McLaughlin >> I have to admit my ignorance in not being able to read the Polish language but, I'm willing to bet that you will not be able to find the phrase "This book is cheap and should not be taken seriously or used as a reference" on the cover or any where else in the Profile Morskie series. << You quite right about that Miles, but you will also not find a phrase "The only and the best recerence book you will ever need" either. And between those two opposite points you could comfortably fit whole libraries of book. >> Call me a masochist but, going through life with the attitude "if you don't have somthing nice to say, don't say it," doesn't change unpleasant facts. << I agree with you on this point,by all means criticise and point out errors.Lets just remember that very few reference books and people are perfect. >> When I posted my warning about the first book of the series, I didn't just rely on any one source to lay out the errors I found. The photograph and references I sited takes the "maybe" out of it. The "as fitted" plan drawings are exactly what the author's of The Anatomy Of The Ship series use as well as the Alan Raven book which I sited as using as one of my sources. An "as fitted" plan is not a proposal of what a ship might look like. An "as fitted" plan as it's title suggests, is a plan blue print of what features are actually fitted on the "completed" ship. << You are simply wrong here Miles, I did have a pleasure of seeing few original "as fitted" plans in Maritime Museum in Greenwich archives. They contain numerous additions and changes made in ink and pencil after the plans were drawn (some additions are so faded with age and use that they are no longer readable) and it is up to the author to decipher which changes and addition are and which arent relevant. Sometimes original "as fitted" plans just no longer exist, destroyed by design or by enemy action during WWII. >> Since neither I or the other individual who found flaws in the series sited R.A. Burt or his book on British Battleships Of World War One as a reference which illustrates flaws in the Profile Morskie series as a source, a rather obvious red herring. << That is a very disingenuous argument if I ever heard one. I cited Burt as just another example of a classic and highly valued reference book which isn't 100% perfect,that was all. >> Being an owner of several of the R.A. Burt books, I would however, be very interested if this same individual will list his references and photographs which illustrate flaws in the before mentioned book or books by that author. << Now Miles, do not get me wrong, I love my Burt books and would not part with them for the love or money. I am also not trying to diminish the value of his works in any way, all I am saying is that he is human and that he makes mistakes. Examples?? Sure,I will give you three for now, but there are more: 1-his drawings of "Erin's" forecastle deck (pages 226-227) specjaly the shape of the deck over secondary batteries have nothing to do with how it looked in the real ship.I have seen and photographed a builders model of this ship in Barrow-in-Furness Museum, I have also seen official "as fitted" drawings. And while in this respect model and official drawings agree,the Burt's drawings are not even close. 2-"Audacious" of "KG V" class of 1912 (page 170-171),in plan view the shape of the superstructure aft is incorrect and upper 4" sponsor (close to Y turret) is missing in this view but shown in outboard profile. 3-"Lion" (page 152-153) ,after trials but before commisioning "Lion" underwent extensive refit which included included repositioning of the forward funel,raising of 2nd and 3rd funnels,changes to main and fore mast ect. While Burt drawing shows most of this changes, he does ommit others like armoured hoods fitted to turrets rangefingers, revolving rangefinders hoods, in plan view upper 4" casamates close to B turret are missing,and there are few others. So the ship in Burts drawings is hybrid of its before and after refit appearance. There you are Miles, great book, by no means prerfect. Regards D.P. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: KATIE's little sister The best that I can find from my sources, the only 8" nuclear artillery munition in that time frame was the W-33 round, which I'm pretty sure was an Army round for use in case the Warsaw Pact came west. Incidentally, the W-23 KATIE was an adaptation of the Army's previous W-19 11" (280 mm) round fit into a 16" round. hth Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: DarekL Subject: Morskie Books Hi Dave, I have to agree with your statement regarding these books and their accuracy. I've been very frustrated trying to use some of them as a reference. Maybe someone can find them useful for the small scale models like 1:700 or 1:1250 but I would never use them to solely base my 1:400 or larger projects. On the other hand I'd like to say a few words for their defense. These books aim at the Polish market for the most and since the West publications have been very hard if not impossible to find, very expensive or plain simple out of reach of the average ship enthusiast there they fill very "basic" needs. I know its a poor excuse but you have to realize that most of the Profile Morskie have been written not by historians but rather one of the modelers who so happened is in possession of several western publications or have access to them and is capable of decent drafting. Its a case of one modeler helping another and making a few buck at the same time. And as for the no. 8 of PM it is light cruiser Karlsruhe not Admiral Sheer. I believe you've been talking about the Monografie Morskie series published by AJ Press. Still I have to agree that the book has a lot inconsistencies. Since I can read polish I can tell you that each drawing in it has a caption that says "some details have been omitted". Which might explain some of your frustrations. Also for the contradiction 8 you wrote; Contradiction 8: Irrelevant fluff. There is a very nice diagram of the aircraft recovery system on page 63. (This diagram was copied directly from a 1942 book called "Seemanschaft".) Unfortunately, the system shown in the diagram was never used on Graf Spee or Admiral Scheer, and it contradicts the correct extended landing sail boom drawn on page 59 of the Morske book. It is just there to fill a blank corner of page 63. the Polish caption says; Due to its impracticality this device was quickly removed. And finally for the pictures in this particular book. I have also problem with the quality of their reproduction, unless some of them. But I wouldn't go as far as accusing them of illegal coping from others. After all on page 2 there is a thank you notice for Mr. Siegfried Breyer for letting them use some of his archives. Also under Material Fotograficzny they list picture sources and among others german press 1935-1945. Darek -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: pugs99@att.net Subject: Re: Profile Morskie Series Hi All, John Anderson writes >> instead of blasting a book and company be thankful that at least someone out there is making an attempt at providing you and me the information we need, << I'm sick and tired of hearing the same old excuse for justifying sub-quality stuff. While reasonbaly priced, you DO get what you pay for with these publications!! I have purchased a few and frankly, won't anymore. This argument of "be grateful" read: SHEEP mentality, is overdone and played out. I wholeheartedly agree with Graf Spee34. Buy them for what they are. Somewhat decent profile publications. As for "being grateful", I'd rather have NO reference than wrong reference! And on a final note, just take a look at Classic Warships publications. These are UNBELIEVABLE quality at twice the price!!! Regards, John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: GrafSpee part II >> Mr. Przezdziecki says that the Morske books are good because at least they are making some effort. << No he does not, all what he says is that Profile Morskie are no worst and no better than many other books dealing with similar subjects. >> Apply the same logic to other products and services, for example. Does a bad haircut become a good one if the barber refunds you $5? Is a cheap defective fire extinguisher as good as a more expensive one that works? If you think so, try explaining this logic on Valentine's day when you've brought your wife a $5 bottle of red wine and a Hershey bar. << Exactly right David, but you miss the point AGAIN, if you payed $5 for a bottle of wine you would not expect "Pinot Noir" inside would you?? You pay your money, you take your choice. >> For the benefit of the disbelievers, I will now briefly document my claim that Morske books are plagaristic schlock of minimal effort. First I will address the issue of crummy photos, plagiarism and copyright violation (already discussed on this forum ad nauseam). << SNIP I alrady know that you hate their guts David, but I have read your post very carefully and two points stand out: 1-how many new books on any subject will present you with full compement of never before published photos??? Vast majority of them recycle photos seen many times before in previous publications. And BTW I really do not give two hoots about Profile, not the period I am mostly interested in. 2- you foam at the mouth about copy right violations, plagiarism and even shoplifting, no accusations of incest so far but I am sure it is coming. Do you actually have any proof of those quite libelous accusations or are you, like in your opinion Profile do," relaying on (snip DP)relative impunity to copyright (or in this case "libel" DP) suit??? Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: DarekL Subject: HMS Orkney Hi All if you like paper models, German company Wilhelmshaven just published a 1:250 waterline model of this ship. On the website below you can find a few 3d computer images of the model. I think printed model came out with more accurate colors though, especially her decks are dark gray. If you'd like to get any of those images in high resolution let me know and I'll send them to you. Darek http://www.teuton.org/~saulj/darek.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Subject: British Mines! Last week someone asked about British Mines during WW I. Someone then stated that a smellie member had some info. I waited (being lazy) Nothing came up so it must be me. Herewith four scans (pickie's) of British mines in attachments. I have a mass of official data on British and US Mines of WW II, so I selected a few of the early Marks in the hope that they are o.k. I have a mass of materiel, in this case original research, gathered from the Army's mine disposal school in Kent. I visited many years ago and retained the contact of a R.N. Petty Officer who as you can see, is most helpful. I will not be drawn into the publication of foreign books. Some are good, and some are better than others. I'm afraid that readers just do not appreciate the full time effort that goes into the research and drawings. I'm up at 5 am every morning, weekends included, but I enjoy what I do. Allied Coastal Forces was a labour of love for Al and I. (5 years and 2 years). My Alliance book did not sell well, but it is a very technical volume. All you require to know about Alliance and her sisters. It's fair to say that the presentation was down to the original crew at Conway. Very fortunately they have moved on, and now perform for Chatham Press. The drawings for the J.K and N class destroyers (DD's) are coming along fine, but there is still a great deal to do. I have G/A s for HMSs Jackal, OPS Poirun, Napier and Kelvin still to complete, but I have (with the aid of much assistance from the author (a fellow smellie) a mass of original 1/4" = 1 Ft "As Fitted" drawings. Off the top of my head, voice pipe fittings, hull plating, the arcs of gun mountings, docking plans, holes in the hull, "A" brackets, two speed minesweeping gear, ships boats and ALL the armament. I anticipate another 5-7 months hard work, but I'm sure the publisher will produce a great volume. It should be something like the Alan Raven - Battleship and Cruiser volumes. (Masses of fine line drawings) with excellent photographs, and colour artwork. (I'm saying all this and I have not even met the author yet)! I look forward to meeting other smellies at the Dortmund Show next Month and I also hope to make the Navy Do at Portsmouth later in the year. (But I'm not signing anything as I did my 9 (and that didn't count)! In late March a new Explosion, the Priddy's Hard Naval Armament Museum opens at Gosport Hants. I will be visiting to cover it for a magazine. I will include my thoughts for my fellow smellies, after the event. Yours "Aye" John Lambert Hi John, The scans will be sent to the site ASAP. Does this mean I have to wait 10-12 months for this book to do my 1/700 N class conversion now???? Aw well, it's not as if I'm a fast builder ;-) Seeya at Portsmouth. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: Re: Did KATIE have a little sister? >> Did the USN ever develop a 203mm/8-in "little sister" of it's 16-in KATIE atomic shell for use aboard the Baltimore or Newport News CAs? << Yup. Unofficial sources credit the USN with "borrowing" the US Army's Atomic Shell for their own development. USS Salem has a magazine, starboard side, next to turret 2 just for that purpose. If anyone could quote an official source, I'd be very interested. John Frohock USNSM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Russell Smith" Subject: Re: Camouflage of Town Class - 1940 Interesting! Let me point out in Alan Raven's Camouflage VOL. 1 Page 7 a picture of the Southampton in what the author calls the "Flotta Scheme". On page 8 of the same book I quote" the author has traced visual evidence for only five vessals. These are Southampton... Newcastle...Manchester," I have only listed the Town class. On page 31 in the same book are drawings in color. listing the colors as Dark Brown, GREEN, light grey and black. This Book was published by WR Press Inc. Would that be you? Are you correcting the author's work just now? Your evidence is? Photographic? Port and Starboard? Not that, Pale, pale grey and off white wouldn't make for a great looking town class! Russ Smith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: More Jolly Good Books There is no shortage of good naval reference books. It just occurred to me that I left out a heck of a good book which was written by a WW2 veteran and fellow SMML subscriber-- "PC Patrol Craft of Word War II" by Dr William Veigele. For $40, you get not only a great history book with good photos written by somebody who was there, you also get a great set of fold out plans plus 30 beautifully drawn engineering drawings illustrating and explaining fittings and other details. (Still in print) (Dr. Veigele did not ask me to write this!) Also I left out: "Destroyer! - German Destroyers in World War II" by M.J. Whitley, (back in print.) For sailing ships, I recommend ALL of Howard Chapelle's books on the American Sailing Navy which are carefully researched and lavishly illustrated with plans. (OOP but cheap at used book stores.) Also "Ships of the American Revolution" by Harold Hahn, which has capsule histories of several vessels, superb plans, illustrations and also photos of his excellent models under construction. (Back in print) On ship model building in general: "Ships in Miniature-- A New Manual for Model Makers" by Lloyd McCaffery. The author is a craftsman of incredible, staggering, mind-boggling skill. Some of his techniques may be too advanced for the average model builder but his approach to problem-sollving and his philosophy fits all (OOP). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "O'Connor" Subject: NATO ships in Florida SMMLie friends, I just got home from a great day of ship watching and climbing. A NATO detachment of eight ships are at Port Canaveral, near the Kennedy Space Center in Central Florida, on a goodwill visit enroute home from a Carribean mission. In all, eight ships from Canada, Great Britain, Denmark, Spain, US,and Belgium ,including the USN LSD, USS Tortuga, were all present. My family and I were able to visit HMS Westminster, a type 23 frigate (where, I must admit, I played tourist and bought a ship's ballcap), the Spanish Naval frigate Victoria, F-82, a Perry-class ship, and the USS Tortuga. Additionally, I got a quick peek aboard the HMCS Fredericton, FFH-337, although she was getting ready to be moved for refueling. Unfortunately, we ran out of time to tour the Danish ship (F-356, Peter Thordenskold), and the rest of the ships were unavailable for tour due to refueling. It was especially interesting to note the different shades of gray used on the ships- Canada's being the most "green" of the lot, and the low vis markings on the Spanish and US ships. It was a beautiful day, the crews were fantastic, and there was a lot of great ship "stuff" to see and appreciate.The only downside was waiting on line to see the ships - which proved that many like myself still appreciate the sacrifices of those who go to sea to protect the rest of us. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: melee Subject: Morske Hello, I collect Neptun 1:1250 ships--which are very good quality, with very good detail. I have Lacroix's book, "japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War"--and my cruisers match exactly what you see in the book. I also have Morske's, "Yukikaze." I have several types of Japanese destroyers from Neptun, Kagero, Asashio and Yugumo. I have compared my Kageros with Morske's"Yukikaze" book and have found a few things different. I am writing in support of those brave enough to openly state that they have found something wrong with Morske books--and then have been attacked for doing so. For those of you out there and still silent, show some support. Many times it is the lone voice which is crying startling news, that in the end, is shown to be correct. If you have any Morske books, compare them to others, if you find errors, comment on them. To be fair, if you find no errors, write also, stating the items compared. I also like Astronomy, just think what Galileo might have done, if he hadn't had to fight the Church--but today everyone knows he was right, too--the Earth goes around the Sun. Sincerely, Lee Shackelford -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: CokerRE@aol.com Subject: Battleship footage Last week the History Channel ran a four part series on battleships from Australian Television. In the third part they showed several clips of Italian and French battleships of the 1930s that had not been run in Victory at Sea or previous battleship documentaries. Do any fellow SMMLies know where to find more footage of French, Italian, and even German capital ships of the 1930s? American television relies too much on British produced efforts which naturally emphasize that navy to the detriment of others. Of special interest would be a video of the Hitler Review held in the Bay of Naples in 1938. Any leads would be appreciated. Thanks, PC Coker at cokerre@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Vern Wilson" Subject: Minesweeper part wanted Hello, I am in need of a left hull half for the 1/125th scale Lindberg Navy Minesweeper (Admirable Class). Even an old glued together junker hull thats more or less intact would be just fine. I am looking for the 6 crew figures that go with this kit. Any help or leads anyone could me will be a plus. Thanks in advance! Vern -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Btbldr" Subject: Hydrodynamics Picture the scene... an Airfix 1/72 Schnellboot stops to take prisoner a downed USAAF pilot in his lifeboat. It is a mostly calm sea, with a very gentle swell running - now my questions for those folks skilled in water physics...(oh and anyone with a colour pic of a USAAF pilot in his life jacket - please do send one my way!) 1) Now then, sea captains, would the captain of this vessel turn his bow into the gentle swell or would he be at 90 degrees to it? 2) Would he have his gun crew at their stations in case some nut in the RAF came after him? 3) Would his props be churning frothy white stuff up at the rear of his vessel, or would he be dead stop, no frothy white stuff? Just the swells bobbing by..... 4) Finally, which of the waste ports would be spewing waste water forth? And would that water be travelling at a billion miles an hour parallel to the ocean for a hundred miles, or just dribbling down the side of the ship, or maybe a graceful arc two or three feet from the hull? Thanks in advance regards Malcolm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "JAmes McCormick" Subject: CD recommendation Hey all: Although it has been out for many years in one form or another, I have to recommend a CD I just bought. I know, I know, go to hyperscale for this post, right? I just got the score to the Victory At Sea Series, and it AB FREAKIN TASTIC!!! What is more, it has been digitally re mastered, and the quality is so clear, I swear, the orchestra is here in the room(on a side note, this is out of a radio shack cd box no less- not quite Bose quality. I have yet to get the companion disk, More Victory At sea, which has among other things special effects battle sounds. If you don't have it, get it, if you do have it, play it. If you do play it..... oh never mind. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: David Sepos Subject: Show Announcement - Pittsburgh, PA 4/7/01 Greetings All, On April 7, 2001, the Three Rivers IPMS in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is having it's annual show. It will be conducted as OPEN JUDGING by competent modelers. None of this "peoples choice" by people that have no idea of what good modeling is. No 1st, 2nd, 3rd places to award, no 70 categories, just major divisions. Aircraft, Ships, Armor, Autos, Figures, etc. The idea is to reward excellence in modeling. Each model is judged on its merit. If a model is good enough for an award, it will get a Gold, Silver,or Bronze medal, or Certificate of Merit. This overcomes the problem of having many excellent models on the table, in highly entered categories, get nothing (even with splits), while a "dog" gets a first place because it's the sole entry in another category. It is planned that a larger percentage of models will receive awards than in the normal 1, 2, 3 situation with 65 - 70 categories. Come to Pittsburgh and help us change the face of model judging and awards in IPMS. We're excited about this! The figure guys do it this way, the auto guys do it in NNLs, the Armor guys do it in AMPS, we in Pittsburgh think it's time for IPMS to try a different approach too. There's a link below to our website for more information, we hope to see some of you SMMLy :-) ship modelers there! Regards, Dave Link: http://trfn.clpgh.org/tripms/2001show.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: rms Subject: WSW/B-Resina kits from the company formerly known as Rocky Mountain Shipyard I'd like to see if there is any interest in purchasing WSW and B-Resina kits from me. All kits currently in production are available for order. Prices are VERY competitive. For example: SMS Blucher $54.00 SMS Kaiser $64.00 DKM torpedoboats $24.00 each Strasbourg $64.00 SMS Ferdinand Max $49.00 USS Callaway $42.00 Shipping is $5.00 per order. All kits shipped via 1st class/Priority Mail, insured. Payment by personal check or money order. (No credit cards now, but I'm checking into it.) If there is sufficient interest, I'll place an order 26 March. I will receive the kits about a month later and I'll ship to you upon receipt. If there is continued interest, I'll place a kit order once a month. Please contact me off list for more information/any questions. Thanks! Lisa Norman e-mail: rms@wic.net fax: 970-434-8498 phone: 970-434-0703 (Mountain Time Zone) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume