Subject: SMML VOL 1179 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 03:12:47 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: John Anderson's comment 2: Re: Research 3: Re: Battleship Footage 4: Re: Camouflage of Town Class - 1940 5: Re: Town Class camouflage in 1940 6: Re: Hydrodynamics 7: Re: CD recommendation 8: Re: MosquitoCon 9: Re: GrafSpee part II 10: RAF ASR Launch 11: Book recommendation 12: National Civil War Naval Museum and references 13: Savannah, Books & Boat handling 14: Re: HMVS Cerberus 15: Re: Ro-RO Civvie crews 16: Lindberg crew figs 17: Book 18: Criticism of reference sources 19: Young modelers; looking for an Echo II, and 1/400 A-4 and SH-3 20: Artitec 1/350th Kortenaer-class Standaard-fregat 21: New Model Magazine and Essex Class Carriers 22: Re: Book 23: Portsmouth 24: D.Przezdieki 25: HYDRODYNAMICS 26: HMS Birmingham 27: Towns 28: Morske-in reply to Darek 29: Morske -in Reply to Przezdzieck 30: H.M.S. Victory (Airfix book) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: NRG WebSite Update - New Journal Table of Contents, New Shopnote! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New Arrivals from WEM... and important notice 2: DD445 Fletcher (Tamiya 1/350) for sale 3: New Books from Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: melee Subject: Re: John Anderson's comment Hello, Mr. Anderson, in a comment to Graf Spee stated, "...... hell the real ships don't even follow there own plans. with mods here and there, ok well deal with it make the adjustments to the kit......" I disagree with this idea. A company, if it not going to show you the actual plans has the responsibility to state that what they are giving you is not the actual plan, maybe a later modification or a "proposed", but not actually completed as planned ship. I'll give you three examples of this, in a good way, then one example in a negative way. I will use three ships I bought, and two books--my LaCroix, "Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War." and "The Complete Encyclopedia of Battleships." I have the Isuzu and the Suzuya, both made by Neptun. In the catalog I use to order my Neptun ships, it states the Isuzu is 1943 and the Suzuya is also 1943. When I compare these ships with the plans in my LaCroix book for the 1943 version of the ships, there is absolutely no difference. Another good example is my Lexington from Navwar. It is the Lexington as it would have looked if completed as a battlecruiser. My ship is 1:3000 scale, so the detail isn't like my Neptun, but it looks just like the drawing in my Battleship Encyclopedia. An example of shoddiness. If anyone reads old SMML letters, they will find a request for information on the "Improved Agano Class" Japanese Cruiser. The model company was putting out the model with 4 turrets in front, like the Tone Class. I looked in my LaCroix book, scanned 6 pages and faxed them to the model builder. Per LaCroix, the Improved Agano plans show 2 turrets aft and two turrets foreward. The model company was putting out absolute junk. If any company is putting out junk, and someone says out loud that it is doing so, people should say thanks to the messanger and yell at the company, maybe even demand a refund. Alas, it is much easier to execute the messenger--acting like the three monkeys--see no evil, hear no evil and let noone else say any evil. For those of you criticising Morske--keep the faith, knowing your cause is just. Sincerely, Lee Shackelford -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Research With all the postings recently about researching and/or simply copying someone else's work the following tongue-in-cheek saying is relevant. "Stealing from one sourcee is plagiarism; stealing from two or more is known as research". Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: wem Subject: Re: Battleship Footage One of the best collections of which I'm aware is the Film Library at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). I've done many online searches of their catalog using ship types or ship names for a subject search, and the number of "hits" is phenomenal. They have a wonderful collection of period newsreel film (Hearst, Movietone, etc.) which accounts for most of the "hits". The down side: the collection is only viewable on-site. I don't know about the possibility of purchasing video copies from the library, but someone may wish to explore this (and please report back to SMML, if you do!). John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: wem Subject: Re: Camouflage of Town Class - 1940 Hi Russ, In this case, I believe the Town Class in question was that of the former USN 4-pipe destroyers transferred to the RN in the "Destroyers for Bases" deals, and not the Town-class cruisers. John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Town Class camouflage in 1940 The three vessels that you are referring to belong to the SOUTHAMPTON class of cruisers. They were only named TOWN class much later. In 1940 the ships of the Town class were in fact the old Flush deck destroyers transferred from the USN in that year. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: tom Subject: Re: Hydrodynamics snip >> 1) Now then, sea captains, would the captain of this vessel turn his bow into the gentle swell or would he be at 90 degrees to it? << Man overboard drill calls for putting the boat to weather of the person in the water at an angle so they are in the sheltered lee of the boat. Ideally you would creep into position and then the wind would cause you to drift down to them sideways. >> 2) Would he have his gun crew at their stations in case some nut in the RAF came after him? 3) Would his props be churning frothy white stuff up at the rear of his vessel, or would he be dead stop, no frothy white stuff? Just the swells bobbing by..... << Assuming he is just idling along just a little frothy stuff from the exhaust, no wake. >> 4) Finally, which of the waste ports would be spewing waste water forth? And would that water be travelling at a billion miles an hour parallel to the ocean for a hundred miles, or just dribbling down the side of the ship, or maybe a graceful arc two or three feet from the hull? << I don't know if the S-boats routed their engine cooling water out via the engine exhaust but that is how it is most commonly done. At idling speed it would just come gurgling out, at high speed it would be spray. As far as other waste ports bilge pumps exit above the waterline but a boat like that would not have been leaking unless damaged. Through hull fittings for heads, etc are below the waterline because it prevents unsightly smears down the side of the hull. Tom K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: CD recommendation I have to agree with James. Victory at Sea is one of the truly great scores, and wonderful modeling music! The sequel, More Victory at Sea is just as good. Some other great Ship Model music - at least in my opinion! Soundtracks Hunt for Red October Alexander Nevsky The Great Escape The Guns of Navarone The Longest Day - this is a Telarc compilation Just about any John Williams soundtrack - Star Wars, Raiders of the lost ark, etc. Classical Pieces: The Battle of the Atlantic Suite The Planets Misc Pieces: If you like soundtracks to old westerns - I know this sounds odd on a ship model building music list, but trust me - try picking up Happy Trails or Roundup from Telarc. The two discs contain some of the best recordings ever made of classics like "How the West was One" ,"Gunfight at the OK Corral" and "The Man who shot Liberty Valance". Magnificent Recordings! For some reason big band music seems to go really well with ship building too. Nothing like Sing Sing Sing to get the blood pumping. At least now you know why my models look the way they do Kurt SeaPhoto Maritime Photography http://warshipphotos.com Warship Models Underway http://warshipmodelsunderway.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: MosquitoCon Hi Jeff Oops!!! Sorry about that about the missing spelling of company names. No offense meant . Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: EMSR569@aol.com Subject: Re: GrafSpee part II Grow up! Learn the meaning of the word HOBBY! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "murph" Subject: RAF ASR Launch Bit of a long shot....... Does anyone know who made a wooden kit of an RAF Air Sea Rescue Launch( a Hants & Dorset I think) for remote control in the 60's/early 70's. It was if I remember correctly about 3 feet long and had a single electric motor TIA Murph -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: LYRAD801@cs.com Subject: Book recommendation Hello, Barne's and Noble is selling the 1998-99 edition of Combat Fleets of the World for $24.98. This book has many more ship types than Jane's Fighting Ships, and has much better information on both ships AND weapons. The binder is stronger, and the paper gets wrinkled less easily. They also have the 2000-2001 edition for $175 compared to $530 for the Janes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: DRPREUL@aol.com Subject: National Civil War Naval Museum and references Hi All, Just got back from the Grand Opening of the National Civil War Naval Museum in Columbus Ga. WOW, what an impressive museum. I HIGHLY recommend anyone with Civil War interest to go to this museum. Exhibits include the real remains of the CSS Jackson, mostly the bottom section of the hull with a steel tubing frame depicting the rest of the ship showing its complete size (200+ feet of display).1 to 1 scale of about 40 ft. broadside of the Hartford, about 1/3 of the Monitor forward and about 1/3 of the Albemarle forward. You can go inside the Albemarle and see the pilot house and the forward pivoting 7" Brook battery plus all the appropriate gun equipment (real impressive). Lots of models and memorabilia. This Museum rates a 10 with me. In regard to the thread on references...... I find mistakes in almost all reference books that are out there if you look hard enough, but these books are invaluable. When I do research to build a model I use more than one resource, (books, photos, magazines, articles and official documents) and cross reference one to the other. Hopefully I produce an accurate model when it is completed. SO...... there is some value in all reference material that is on the market regardless if a book has a mistake or two in it. (ie..... one photo can cost as much as $20) Don Preul.....J&D Productions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Summers David Col 56 MDG/SGPMI Subject: Savannah, Books & Boat handling Some comments: During its time of active service, it's said the nuclear merchant ship Savannah was restricted from large numbers of ports because of a fear of radiation and nuclear accident. I understand it spent much of its service time waiting for cargoes scheduled for the few allowed ports. I own many of the Morskie books, use them for modeling, and greatly appreciate the recent notices pointing out their limitations. I also greatly appreciate the translations of the Polish text. Please keep the notices coming both pro and con, but refrain from personal attacks! Concerning picking up downed pilots, been there, done that many times: 1) Head into the swells absolutely for sure! NEVER allow the boat to go sideways to the swells. Even "calm seas" toss a boat horribly and you lose directional control!!! ...Especially when approaching a life raft: you turn just a couple of degrees from the wind (for lateral movement) and always approach from down wind. If you find yourself upwind of the target, GET OUT OF THERE! (Usually rotate stern away from victim and back away full power, circle for another approach) 2) Some throttle is necessary to maintain the heading per #1. The engine will be "burbling" behind the craft, with a slick aft but no discernable wake. You NEVER cut the motor--in an instant you'll be sideways to the swells and pitching like crazy, totally out of control! 3) There's propeller danger to the liferaft occupants due to #1 and 2. You generally try to recover as far away from the screw as possible--that usually means the bow. When contact is made, you cut the throttles momentarily (neutral) and pray the victim will be on your boat before the swells turn you sideways. If not, you give short bursts to bring the boat back straight--usually backward, not forward. 4) Depending on the ship, much of the water squirting out of side ports in the hull is not waste water, but coolant--the flow is relatively constant regardless of throttle position. Even in port with main engines stopped, coolant from generators and other motors squirts out the side of the hull. 5) Pickup is a "battlestations" situation, except for those people actually involved with the rescue. All guns and lookouts would be fully manned--nobody below. David Summers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "David Hathaway" Subject: Re: HMVS Cerberus Shane, etc, I should put my head above the parapet at this point and own up to the fact that I am "Paper Shipwright" and designed the HMVS Cerberus model. She was HMVS (Her Majesty's Victorian Ship) Cerberus - as in Victoria the State. She later became HMAS Cerberus and then HMAS Platypus. She has reverted to her original name by common usage. The flag to put in the model was a fascinating investigation in it's own right. Victoria was the first colonial state to acquire a warship (Cerberus) and this caused a lot of problems as to which flag a colonial navy could fly. The red or the white duster was out of the question and in the end the blue RN auxilliary flag was agreed, suitably defaced. The first Victorian Navy flag is as shown. It later acquired a (Victorian) crown above the stars. There are several good flag sites on the web if you want confirmation. Good luck with making the model, Ed. I have just added another model to the list available, USS Monitor, also in 1:250 scale. Alas, not a free model though (got to make a living somehow!). David Hathaway info@papershipwright.co.uk www.papershipwright.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: Ro-RO Civvie crews I wonder how long it will take for those big paychecks to shrink in the face of enemy torpedos and missiles. . . . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: Lindberg crew figs >> I am in need of a left hull half for the 1/125th scale Lindberg Navy Minesweeper (Admirable Class). Even an old glued together junker hull thats more or less intact would be just fine. I am looking for the 6 crew figures that go with this kit. Any help or leads anyone could me will be a plus. Thanks in advance! << Vern, I think I still have some of the crew figs from that old 1/125th scale Lindberg Minesweeper. Let me know your address; if I can find them I'll send them to you. As for a left hull half, well...if you come up empty, there's a spot at Morrison Creek here in Sacramento where one rests with bb sized holes... Regards, Tim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Book HI Gang, Does anyone have any details of the book: 'Portsmouth Warships - ??? to 1945' author could be Ballantyne. Possibly published in 1998. Can't trace this one at all and it has been recommended. Cheers. Regards Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo kupu kaore e taea te karo (Te reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Plato Software" Subject: Criticism of reference sources Just been catching up on several days' worth of SMMLs and started with 1178. Having caught the end (?) of the thread about Profile Morskie and having had several exchanges with Dave Krakow in the past, I had to look back to see what he had said to prompt such a verbal barrage. I was both unsurprised (that his original post seemed to be pretty reasonable, in my view) and surprised (that it was apparently sufficient to justify such a response) when I read the original comments on the Morskie tomes. I can probably do without weighing in on this issue, but I have found in my other area of interest (military vehicles) that there are some authors/publishers who can generally be regarded as reliable and some who can be regarded as the opposite. Even so, sometimes the former make very silly errors, despite their undoubted pedigree and the fact that they have probably forgotten more about the subject than I will ever know, and if they do, I feel that it is reasonable to comment on it in reviews. After all, not every purchaser will have my library and as long as I am careful to support my criticisms with evidence, most authors will accept them or challenge with more evidence. By such means is knowledge advanced. Unfortunately, price is not always as reliable a guide as one might wish, and there is little that is more frustrating than to spend significant amounts of cash from a limited modelling budget on a reference which has received good reviews because the reviewer was too ill-informed and/or nervous to make criticisms where due. This is not the same as knocking everything which appears (and applies equally to kits and accessories) but if some of us don't care about accuracy, we will, ultimately get the models and the references that we deserve. I might still buy a source which has been criticised if there is enough in it to make it worthwhile in my view but I cannot be an expert in everything (anything?), so I have to place some reliance on the greater knowledge of others in those areas. I for one might think less of them were they to hold back on the grounds of not wishing to cause offence if their criticisms were justified. Of course reasoned criticism is not the same as mindless abuse and hopefully we can all appreciate the difference. I hope that those on the list who do have expertise in particular fields of the hobby will continue to share them with us as surely the whole point of the SMML forum is to aid the free exchange of ideas. That means you can argue with me if you disagree with any of the above! And I won't boil your rabbit..... Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Young modelers; looking for an Echo II, and 1/400 A-4 and SH-3 On a subject related to the talented young Mary, in moving I have aquired two young neighbors of just the right age to start modeling. Once the weather warms up I plan to bring out a ship or three, and my airbrush or camera, and make a big deal within their sight. Hopefully their parents will allow them to wander over and I can infect them with the modeling bug. Then I'll have them draw their friends into my web, and soon I'll have started a new model club, with me as their EMPEROR! Sorry. :-0 Seriously, if you live within sight of children, make an effort to show them what you do, and maybe you can pull them away from the Idiot Box long enough to get model glue into their blood. I am looking for an Echo II in 1/700, but I only need one. I am hoping someone out there bought the kit that has two and only built one, and would be willing sell me the other, or trade for something I have. Also, I'm looking for a copy of an A-4 and an SH-3 in 1/400. I'd rather not buy an entire Enterprise CVN just to obtain two little plane models. I hope to rework them into prototypes for aircraft for a Brasilian Sao Paulo CV. (If that's legal. How significant do changes need to be before it's legal for me to copy?) Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: thorstenwahl@t-online.de Subject: Artitec 1/350th Kortenaer-class Standaard-fregat Went to a model show yesterday and found this little beauty - wow, never seen a better cast kit. As close as flawless as Iīve seen to date. Only questions I have are regarding tips for building it - anyone have pics or online sources for the class? Are there any mistakes to beware of in the kit? SOTB it look svery nice and most parts fit well even w/o removing the casting stubs. So, anyone out there who could give me some tips? TIA Thors 'At least we donīt name our ships for our mothers-in-law.ī USS Reuben James to HMS Battleaxe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Nuno Andresen Portela" Subject: New Model Magazine and Essex Class Carriers There is a new model magazine in the market: "Kit Magazine", from France It is a generic magazine that covers all aspects of modelling. With articles from figures to cars (even slot cars), airplanes and articles on a motorbike and a truck; unfortunately unusual model subjects in model magazines. The quality of the magazine and articles is truly excellent. The best possible news of this issue nš 1 is a scrathbuild 1/350 USS Bunker Hill (CV17). The model is really amazing and is a reference on its own, now that everyone is talking about the upcoming Essex kit. It is quite unlikely that any mainstream model will rival this replica in terms of accuracy and detail. Included are more than 25 pictures of this life-like model. Already promised for issue nš 2 is the build up of the carrier air wing for this ship. Also in this issue there is a photo report on the World Model Championship "Naviga" in Mons; Belgium. Now this one has to be seen to be believed! There are two fire fighters from Ukrainian modellers and two fisher boats from Chinese fellows that are absolutely amazing in their fittings and overall look. One of them is a "see throughout" model. Modellers who can't read French, will have no problems as they will enjoy the captions in English (even if it's translations are not that good). All in all an excellent magazine, that I hope will find a well-deserved success. The number of good news from France is increasing every day. The next one is a book about the aircraft carriers "La Fayette" and "Bois-Belleau". If the quality of this books will match the one from the previous "Arromanche and Dixmudes", I can hardly wait to put it in my shelf Nuno Andresen Portela Porto PORTUGAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Mike Dunn SMML Webmaster" Subject: Re: Book >> Does anyone have any details of the book: 'Portsmouth Warships - ??? to 1945' author could be Ballantyne. Possibly published in 1998. Can't trace this one at all and it has been recommended. << Chris, this COULD be a Portsmouth Royal Dockyard Historic Trust publication........ The one I have (#7) has no listings of the others in it Shane - how abouts the ones I mailed ya? Mike Nope, I pretty sure that it's not a Portsmouth Historical Trust as the last one I have (No 7: Ships in & out of Portsmouth Dockyard) was published in 1998 & they don't appear to publish these at a regular pace (No 6 was published in 1991!). On a side note, if you can find these magazines around they are worth every penny, in fact they are grossly undercharging for the them. They cost 2-3 quid & consist of photos & articles. I'll try to review them for the site in the coming weeks. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "John Rule" Subject: Portsmouth Can the list, or someone who knows, tell me a little about the upcoming Portsmouth "thing". I think it's in August but need more info, just in case I can escape my bonds and make a trans-Atlantic sortie. Is there a site with info? W.r.t. P.M. I get them cos' I like them. Plus I have an incurable urge to acquire books anyway. I do however have some favourites, among which are Burt's battleship books, Friedman's books on US cruisers and destroyers, Friedman's book on RN aircraft carriers, Raven and Roberts British Battleships of WWII and British Cruisers, all of the Orizzonte Mare series on Italian warships of WWII.......and the list goes on.!!! All of these are good but certainly not faultless. Don't forget my question in the first paragraph. Thanks to all. John Hi John, The "Portsmouth thing" is the scene of a proposed gathering of SMMLies for an informal SMMLcon (ie: looking at ships & getting ripped ;-) ) at the International Festival of the Sea. Check out the following url for the FOTS official site: http://www.festivalofthesea.co.uk/ Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: MMclau1079@aol.com Subject: D.Przezdieki To Mr. Przezdieki: I have to admit that I envy your trip to the Maritime Museum at Greenwich. But, unless I am grossly misinformed, you are misrepresenting what the added on notations and sketches that are done in pencil or pen to an "as fitted" plan represents in regards to the accuracy and reliability of the original "as fitted" plan. An Admiralty draftsman or builders yard draftsman is given the task of making a plan drawing deck by deck and by profile of the fittings and features of the "completed" ship. These then become the Official "as fitted" plans of the completed ship. Subsequently, peace time refits result in additions and sometimes removal of features on the "completed" ship. These additions and alterations to the completed ship are represented in pen or pencil on the "as fitted" plans. As an example, HMS.Ajax's "peace time" refit that resulted in the "new" location for her forward 4-inch twin guns, is represented by an added on sketch circle to her Official "as fitted" plan. I know this because, I have a copy of the original 1935 "as fitted" plan drawings of HMS.Ajax. Some other "peace time" alterations to the completed ship were noted in either pen or pencil on these "as fitted" plans. During the war, the Royal Navy did not continue noting the additional "war time" alterations to the original 1935 "as fitted" plans of HMS.Ajax. This probably holds true for other Royal Navy ships that were completed during peace time. However, (somewhere in their archives) are records from shipyards in the United States and England that performed war time repairs, alterations and additions to these same ships. Each respective shipyard would have assigned a draftsman to draw their own new plan drawings to document these alterations and additions. Additionally, photographs labeling these changes would also, be taken. Which means that the "as fitted" plans are entirely accurate and reliable up to the last penned or penciled noted addition. Beyond that point, they are still very usefull in identifying key features. I agree with Mr. Przezdieki that the identifying notations (sometimes in small print) can at times be difficult to read on the "as fitted" plans. But, this in no way excuses Profile Morskie for representing in their plan drawings of HMS.Ajax, deck areas as being bare steel when they should be wood planked and the reverse. Especially, when their own (1943 refit) photograph found on page 7. of Profile Morskie # 1, clearly enough shows wood planking to the right of the crain. Where as their (1941) plan drawing represents this same area as being only steel covered. I don't think it should have grossly over taxed the abilities of Profile Morskie to make the minimal effort to make sure that their own plan drawings were accurate in relation to photographs which apparently were available and printed by them. I do not think that it is asking to much by a consumer to expect a publisher to at least get the "large" details on a plan drawing correct. I thank Mr. Przezdieki for his interpretations of the plan drawings he saw at the Maritime Museum at Greenwich in regards to the accuracy of R.A. Burt's plan drawings. I would however, request that he do me the honor of listing the photographs and references that support his views as I did in my review and warning of Profile Morskie # 1. They will make a welcome addition and supplement for the books that I already own. Respectfully, Miles F. McLaughlin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: HYDRODYNAMICS UNLESS YOU STEER INTO THE SWELLS, YOU HAVE VERY LITTLE CONTROL. STEERING INTO THE SWELLS WOULD REQUIRE SOME POWER, SO SOME OF THAT FROTHY, WHITE STUFF WOULD BE PRESENT. DAVID -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: SolidStump@aol.com Subject: HMS Birmingham While looking at my Neptune 1250 collection, I noticed one of my British cruisers did not have that characteristic "knuckle" along the flare of the bow. The model is the light cruiser, HMS Birmingham of the Southampton Class. Whitley's "Cruisers of WW2" has a picture of the Birmingham on pg 107 taken at an angle that makes it hard to tell if the knuckle is there. Also, it looks like a boat boom is deployed that may mask the line of the knuckle. Anyone have any info on this "variation??" Simon Scheuer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Towns Hi Russ You seem somewhat confused. WR PRESS is referring to the US destroyers transferred to the RN in WW2 and named after towns which existed in both the US and UK. They were sometimes known as Towns. There was a class of light cruiser also sometimes known as Towns. They were different though. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Morske-in reply to Darek Dear Darek Your polite comments are valid and well-taken and I would like to respond (I will get to Przezdzeiki later). Yes, the book I am looking at here is Monografie Morske by AJ Press, I did not draw a distinction between Monographie Morske and Profile Morske. It is an easy mistake to make. The books from both series are substantially similar and, in my opinion, suffer the same accuracy, quality and academic problems already addressed in detail. Therefore, I do not think that it is an important distinction. Concerning the photos, we agree they are mostly of poor quality. I have gone so far as to accuse Morske of illegally copying photos and I stand by that. I have gotten a note off-list from an attorney who is a subscriber urging me to say as little as possible in connection with this. However, I will add that in the course of my own research I have become aquainted with people who do own or represent the rights to photos of Kriegsmarine ships, some of which have appeared in these Polish books. Among them is the widow of an author cited in the GS book, another is the chief archivist at one of the premier military archives in Germany. The widow was never contacted by Morske, the archivist has banned anyone associated with Morske books from his establishment due to repeat copyright violations. Concerning the detail of the landing boom which fills a blank corner of a page, as I said, the drawing does not resemble the system used on Graf Spee or Admiral Scheer. For example, Graf Spee as fitted had a much larger and heavier landing sail boom housed in a motor-driven perforated steel armature, as shown elsewhere on the Morske plan. It appears the draftsman simply could not resist using the tidy drawing he found in the book "Seemanschaft" despite its lack of relevance. Last, I found it enormously funny that each drawing in the Morske book contains a caption that says "some details have been omitted". That really says it all, except perhaps, that some details have been fabricated. Respectfully, Dave Krakow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Morske -in Reply to Przezdzieck Dear Przezdzieck: At the risk of dignifying you with a reply, I would like briefly to address your comments (ignoring the obvious hypocrisy of somebody who repeatedly attempts to flame me, using subjects from rabies to incest, then says that I need to "relax"). Today you said (I am paraphrasing a bit) that most naval reference books are created equal. Anyone who is not as quality-blind as you can see that is complete piffle. On 10 March you said (this is a direct quote) >> show me better references at comparable prices and I will shut up!!! << The following day, I duly responded with a host of superb reference books in the $20 and under range, including the WR Press, Squadron Signal, and Classic Warship series. In light of the obnoxious and deliberately antagonistic tone of your posts, I am sure that most of us would be rather grateful if you kept your word. Respectfully, Dave Krakow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: Les Pickstock Subject: H.M.S. Victory (Airfix book) Some years ago PSL Ltd published a guide to modelling the Airfix Victory. I have been asked to build the kit for a friend and was wondering if anyone in the UK has a copy of this book that they would sell or rent to me for a short while. The book is called "Classic Ships, their history and how to models them. H.M.S. Victory." the author is Noel C.L. Hackney. Any help would be greatly appreciated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Vincent Mccullough" Subject: NRG WebSite Update - New Journal Table of Contents, New Shopnote! Hello, all! I've updated the Nautical Research Guild's web site again, this time with two notable entries. First, I've added the table of contents for the upcoming Nautical Research Journal. The March Journal contains articles that are of interest to both Age of Sail (aka Sticks n' Strings) modelers and Steel Navy modelers alike. The other notable addition is a new shop note. Many of you will recognize the name Erik A. R. Ronnberg, Jr. Erik is one of the foremost modelers in North America, and is renouned for his well researched and executed models of sailing vessels. Some years ago, Erik did an article for the Journal entitled "PAINT AND COLORS FOR AMERICAN MERCHANT VESSELS, 1800-1920: Their Study and Interpretation for Modelmaking." With his permission, we are republishing that article as a shop note on the NRG web page. It includes a detailed discussion of the properties of color, color perception, scale effect, etc. It ALSO incudes a palet of paint colors used for various vessels over this era. So if, for example, your references tell you that a portion of a ship is painted "yellow ochre", Erik tells you what color that actually is. And, as usual, I'm continually adding new sources of materials, fittings, tools, research material, etc to the web site. IF you don't find one of your favorite sources there, drop me a note and I'll add it. The site can be found at: http://www.naut-res-guild.org Vince McCullough NRG Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "WEM" Subject: New Arrivals from WEM... and important notice Hi Folks, New arrivals from WEM as follows: NEW "FLIGHTDECK 350" items are as follows (awaitng photoetched brass details) (Patterns for the following aircraft by Brian Fawcett... etch by Peter Hall) FD 028 1/350 CURTISS SEAGULL+etched brass (x2) 7.62 ($11.00) FD 029 1/350 DOUGLAS SBD DAUNTLESS + etched brass (x2) 8.46 ($12.00) FD 030 1/350 Grumman WILDCAT + etched brass (x2) 8.46 ($12.00) FD 031 1/350 Grumman AVENGER + etched brass (x2) 8.46 ($12.00) FD 032 1/350 Vought F4U CORSAIR + etched brass (x2) 8.46 ($12.00) FD 033 1/350 Curtiss SB2C HELLDIVER WW2 monoplane +etch (x2) 8.46 ($12.00) FD 034 1/350 Grumman F6F HELLCAT + etched brass (x2) 8.46 ($12.00) FD 035 1/350 Douglas TBD DEVASTATOR +etch (x2) 8.46 ($12.00) FD 036 1/350 Curtiss SC-1 SEAHAWK +etch (x2) 8.46 ($12.00) FD 037 1/350 Grumman J2F DUCK +etch (x2) 9.33 ($14.00) and the next NARROW SEAS release is NS 004 1/350 Fairmile 'D' MGB 660 1943 6pdr, single/twin 20mm, 40mm Single 19.96 GBP ($28.00) (Patterns/etch by Peter Hall) Also, we're on schedule for the next 1/350 Scale release: K 3549 1/350 KNOX CLASS FRIGATE 112.30 GBP ($162.00) (Patterns/etch by Peter Hall) then K 3551 1/350 PEGASUS (HYDROFOIL) 25.49 GBP ($36.00) (Patterns/etch by Peter Hall) We are taking orders right now for all of the above. E-mail me, Caroline or John Snyder at jsnyder@macnexus.org or use the on-line form at http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/wemorder.htm I have completely updated the White Ensign "own stuff" lists at the following location: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/main.htm Please check it out. *IMPORTANT NOTICE* WEM are under a possible threat of closure due to the fact that we live on a farm. An outbreak of Foot and Mouth Disease has occurred only a few miles away... IF our farm becomes infected, no movement of ANYTHING will be possible from this premises for ONE MONTH, or however long the ministry determines. Anybody considering placing an order in the next couple of months with WEM... please do it now!! Thanks for your indulgence, Caroline Carter White Ensign Models, Gardeners Cottage, Cowarne Court, Ledbury, Herefordshire, HR8 2UF, U.K. Tel : 0870 220 1888 Fax: 0870 220 1786 http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Zeljko Hanich Subject: DD445 Fletcher (Tamiya 1/350) for sale Hi, I am selling three kits of DD445 Fletcher (Tamiya 1/350 kit 78012). All inner plastic begs are sealed and boxes are in mint condition. I ask $18.00 for each (or the same value in other currency) + postage cost. Please, contact me directly to my address: hanich@zg.tel.hr Thanks, Zeljko -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: New Books from Classic Warships I am frantically pounding away at my keyboard (sledge hammer, "Why wont this Blasted #@*&%?!@!@! Thing work) and almost finished with Warship Pictorials #11 and #13. I hope that little bit of humor helped for all you reference hounds, my self included! I get a big kick when I tell people I build models and write books for a living. They look at me weird and I think they are thinking....."Why does this guy not grow up and get a real job?" Lucky for them they keep their thoughts to themselves. You would know what I mean if you saw me. Most everyone is nice to me or just keeps quiet. You dont exactly want to "piss off" (now lets see the Brits interpret that one..."Oh Piss Off!) a 6ft. 5in., 235 pound beer drinking, my chest is still bigger than my gut, pickup truck driving, Sports and Stock Car racing fan, First Place in a pie eating contest, hates Marmite(and probably Vegimite), thinks "Bonding" is for girls(woman), did a little boxing, used to work in a strip club, was a life guard, been in a few bar fights, loves to fart in a crowded elevator as I step off at the next floor, guy WHO LOVES TO BUILD TOY BOATS!!! WHHOOO AAHHHH! Well now. Thats me in a nutshell! Now I hope that everyone enjoyed that as much as I did, if not toooooooo baaaadddddd!!! Now, as I pull on my "Lets Get Serious Jacket", about WP #'s 11 and 13. WP #11 Lexington Class Carriers 72 pages, 120 photos, 2 original USN documents on Lexington, with many of the photos previously unpublished. Many excellent views of Saratoga in Ms. 32 dazzle, 15 pages to be exact. This book is a photo album, and will retail at $13.95. WP #13 IJN Kongo Class Battleships 72 pages, 112 photos plus 2 colorized photos on the covers. 15 profile and 5 plan view drawings, and 4 sets of drawings on the types of aircraft carried during WWII. Also included in this book are the record of movement for all four ships. This is probably the largest piece of work on this class of battleship ever done in English. Retail is $13.95. As with my past books, you will be surprised at what you find in both of these books. I have tried to leave no stone unturned. You will find photos in all of my books that have been printed before, but I believe that it is necessary to reprint them for many reasons. I think that a photo may need to be reprinted because I might be able to do it better. I also think that every bit of information should be in one place. That was one of the major disagreements my former partner(in these books) and I had, which is why I now write, draw, format, and produce them myself. I strive to reproduce the photos at the highest level I possibly can, and publish and sell them as inexpensively as possible. These two books will go to the printer at the end of the month, and be available in April. Next up...... #12 Benson/Gleaves Class Destroyers I am looking at 260 Benson type photos and thats only 1/3 of the whole class of 96 ships! I will start to hunt down the Gleaves type photos next. Actually I already have about 70! This book will have to go to 80 pages. I plan to have a few sets of line drawings as well. I am trying to use copies of the actual USN blueprints for these. #14 ? Up in the Air ? I would like it to be the Nevada Class, but I am a long way from finding all the photos I would like to have to do this one right. So the next subject I have the most material "Ready To Go" is the USS Wichita. We shall see! Thanks, Steve Wiper www.classicwarships.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume