Subject: SMML VOL 1180 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 23:47:30 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: New Books from Classic Warships 2: Morske-in reply to Darek 3: Birmingham's bow 4: New and Intreged 5: Re: WEM's foot and mouth problem 6: Books 7: Book 8: Re: references 9: Royal Oak video 10: Re: Hydrodynamics 11: Portsmouth Warships 12: Town Class Camouflage - 1940 13: Sub in a park 14: Re: Wiper's varied career 15: Flight Deck 16: Re: Book 17: Sailing ship blocks 18: film archives/music/NS Savannah, yet again 19: Towns 20: Re: 1/700 French Navy Photo-etch 21: S-Boat plans 22: Lee Ship models 23: HMS Birmingham 24: Colour of IJN submarines 25: Morskie Wars part XXI 26: Re: New Books from Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: BOOKS FOR SALE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Thorsten L. Wahl" Subject: Re: New Books from Classic Warships In Vol 1179 Steve delighted us with: (Some stuff snipped) >> You dont exactly want to "piss off" (now lets see the Brits interpret that one..."Oh Piss Off!) a 6ft. 5in., 235 pound beer drinking, my chest is still bigger than my gut, pickup truck driving, Sports and Stock Car racing fan, First Place in a pie eating contest, hates Marmite(and probably Vegimite), thinks "Bonding" is for girls(woman), did a little boxing, used to work in a strip club, was a life guard, been in a few bar fights, loves to fart in a crowded elevator as I step off at the next floor, guy WHO LOVES TO BUILD TOY BOATS!!! WHHOOO AAHHHH! << ROTFLMSAO! What a needed and entertaining break from the Morskie slugfest... ´nuff said. (Some more stuff on upcoming titles snipped) >> #14 ? Up in the Air ? << Steve, from a few months´ back I dimly remember mention being made of you planning a volume on the Arleigh Burke class DDGs. Are those still on track or have you shelved them? Seeing as I´m a member of the minority w/ my interest in modern ships, I still would like to see a real high quality book on these! Best regards Thors ´At least we don´t name our ships for our mothers-in-law.´ USS Reuben James to HMS Battleaxe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: DarekL Subject: Morske-in reply to Darek When these books appeared on the market I was actually quiet surprised with their popularity here. I bought all of them myself for different reasons. And I stand by my opinion that they do fill an important need for this type of information but on the Polish market. Just look at the enthusiastic postings from Damian Pliszka. :) Too bad they are doing it in not so legal manner according to what you are saying Dave. Since I do not have any particular information as to the legality or illegality of their actions I won't be getting any further into this discussion. And if I may add from my own experience the best research materials on a given navy you can get in the originating country with a very few exceptions (Anatomy of Ship). One thing I am curious about but I won't be following on it, so maybe someone else will, is Profile Morskie No. 30 USS Selfridge. Their plans for her 1945 outfit is obviously a copy of Thomas Walkowiak set of drawings. Inaccurate set may I add and if you don't believe me ask Don Preul.:) (Sorry Don, couldn't resist). But what I'd like to know is if they actually got the permission of the Floating Drydock company for publishing this set in their book. Finally the omitted details problem has actually an easy explanation. The draughtsman is leaving small details and railings on some of his drawings out in order to better show lay out for the major elements like decks and superstructures. I don't think your criticism of this particular feature is just, especially if there is an annotation informing reader about it, even if it is written in Polish :) Regards Darek -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Birmingham's bow Hi Simon Birmingham was the only cruiser of the Southampton class to be built without the knuckle. There is a good account of its effectiveness in D K Brown From Nelson to Vanguard and several good photos in Ensign No 5 Town Class Cruisers by Raven and Roberts. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Mark Pearce" Subject: New and Intreged Hi I have been a member of your wonderful e-mail news letter for but a few/several days now and have read all the letters with wonder, surprise and amusement. As a lonely ship modeller stuck in the backwaters of Port Elizabeth SA, I have not much to call on in the form of research and or peer help. I have been given a complete model of the Billings Smit Rotterdam. All bits and pieces included except for the instructions. The plans that I got with the kit have been helpful to a point only. Is any one out there who can spare me a copy. Address is P O Box 28645 Sunridge Park Port Elizabeth 6008 South Africa. Yours from the modelling bench -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "JAmes McCormick" Subject: Re: WEM's foot and mouth problem Caroline, I'm sure I speak for all SMMLies when I say you are in our thoughts during the foot and mouth scare in the UK. US News is too busy following silly stories to report much on the problem, but those of us who follow the world news know what you are up against. Hang in there, it'll all work out in the long haul. From a business standpoint... I don't know what to say. You know that some are eagerly awaiting certain kits (hydrofoil). I am in the process of rounding up my money now, will be in touch via e mail very soon. Jim McCormick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "John Rule" Subject: Books >> Does anyone have any details of the book: 'Portsmouth Warships - ??? to 1945' author could be Ballantyne. Possibly published in 1998. << Chris, I purchased this book called Portsmouth Warships 1900 - 1950 and a similar one called Plymouth Warships 1900 - 1950 from White Ensign at the Modelfest 2000 show. They were fairly cheap and are very good value each containing about 200 photos. There is a potted history of each ship in the captions. the Portsmouth book was by Syd Goodman and the Plymouth book also but in collaboration with Iain Ballantyne. I think I paid about 12 pounds each for them (or less). Sincerely, John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Edward Brown" Subject: Book Chris This book could be Portsmouth Warships 1900 - 1950 by Ballantyne/Goodman Currently being sold reduced from £21.95 to £13.50 by Maritime Books, Lodge Hill, Liskeard, PL14 4EL 01579 343663 (publishers of Warship World) as if you did not know. It has a companion book Plymouth Warships 1900 -1950 by same authors. Edward -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: references All this talk about varying quality and prices causes me to observe that you get what you pay for, if you are lucky. Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "resolution" Subject: Royal Oak video I have just received a beta copy of a video about HMS Royal Oak from Ocean optics. this video really is a must as it has quite a few shots and footage of her pre war but mainly covers the underwater stuff (guns then guns now sort of thing) when they were granted a diving licence to visit the ship last year, also has interviews with survivors. I don't know what the distribution will be like but I have put all the video info plus a order form to print out and send off to them to buy direct. just go to www.resolution.ic24.net and follow the banner at the top cheers Richard baker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Fritz Koopman Subject: Re: Hydrodynamics Malcolm: 1) Actually he would be broadside to the wind. The proper way to retrieve a man overboard is motor up to windward of the target, turn broadside to the wind and then drift down to the victim. 2)This I'll leave to someone with naval service experience. 3)No white stuff! As the boat drifts down, props will be disengaged so as not to risk turning the the man overboard to shark chum. In smaller boats, a person with proper boat training will actually shut off the engines, so that there will be no chance of accidentally engaging the prop durring the operation. 4) Waste water? You mean bilge water, or engine cooling water? For the Snellboots I recall the bilge outlets being located in the vicinity of the engine compartment. As for Engine cooling water (someone with more specialized knowledge on shnellboots may be able to give a better answer) but seem to recall that they were powered by diesels, in which case the cooling water would normally be dumped into the exhaust, and exit the vessel through that outlet. For bilge water,(i.e. if the vessel is taking on water) the the force, and arc would be similar to a person writing their name in the snow. :-) hope this helps Regards Fritz K. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Portsmouth Warships Hi Guys 'n Gals, Ballantyne also wrote 'Plymouth Warships' (1998) which is packed with very interesting photos of ships not otherwise seen. I suspect that Portsmouth Ships is a sister publication. Anyone got any clues? Cheers! Regards Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo kupu kaore e taea te karo (Te reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Russell Smith" Subject: Town Class Camouflage - 1940 Thanks for correcting my misinterpretation. I apologize to WRPRESSING and bow out of the discussion while I remove my foot from my mouth . Russ Smith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: Sub in a park Hi you all... On a drive down to Melbourne, from Sydney, last Thursday/Friday night/morning three of us naval enthused modellers drove through a small NSW county town called Holbrook (named after a RN VC submariner winner in WWI). In the middle of the town is a park in that park is a 1:1 scale O class submarine, HMAS Otway. At 3 AM this is one of the most bizarre sights one can see... a park in a town hundreds of miles from the sea with a submarine (a la waterline) in its town centre. Huge black edifice protruding from the green park of a small Australian country town........ BTW we were going to Melbourne for the Model Expo which was good fun and some nautical subjects in the competition and display. Holbrook was formally called Germantown, but was renamed during WWI. At the competition was a beautifully made 1/700 HMAS Sydney FFG which got third, it should in reality have got first.. a personal opinion. Naval subjects, at the Model Expo, seem to have increased ever so slightly in the last few years. A group/business called Navart had a marvellous display of both paintings and 1/350 ship subjects. Simon Wolff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Wiper's varied career >> girls(woman), did a little boxing, used to work in a strip club, << I've met you, I hope the stint was on the audience side of the footlights; I don't even want to imagine you in a go-go cage!! :-) Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Robert Fish" Subject: Flight Deck Shane, This Question could be for one who is very good at building flight decks out of Wood and in 1\96 scale, as I'm still looking to build the carrier USS Langley as a seaplane Tender, with the forward 1\4 of the fight deck missing, My question is, what kind of scale wood could one use? And where does one get this scale wood? Either in plank form or strips and maybe basswood Will work? Any replies will be helpful. Thanks Robert "Retreat Hell we're just attacking In another Direction" 1952 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: Book Could it be PORTSMOUTH WARSHIPS 1497-1967 by James Goss? What I show is that it was published in 1984 Emsworth Hampshire [I think that is a location and not a publisher] by Kenneth Mason [which I think is the publisher]. I found several listings for it, so there are copies available, in the UK and Australia. Of course, what you are after may be something entirely different. I hope this helps. Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Vmclawyer@aol.com Subject: Sailing ship blocks I'm beginning a sailing ship kit & I'd like to wire strop the blocks. A reference book I have recommend using #33 or # 34 black annealed wire. Does anybody know of a source from which to purchase such fine gage wire? It certainly isn't for sale in Birmingham, AL. If you can help, thanks. My email address: vmclawyer@aol.com. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: raisingirl@mindspring.com Subject: film archives/music/NS Savannah, yet again hello all.... John Snyder wrote: >> One of the best collections of which I'm aware is the Film Library at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). I've done many online searches of their catalog using ship types or ship names for a subject search, and the number of "hits" is phenomenal. They have a wonderful collection of period newsreel film (Hearst, Movietone, etc.) which accounts for most of the "hits". The down side: the collection is only viewable on-site. << For those on the east coast of North America, there's something analogous at the University of South Carolina, which is home to a HUGE Movietone News archive. While visiting USC last week (and yes, I'm a doctoral student there, so I'm hoping someone from USC will read this, note the free plug, and knock a bit off my student loan indebtedness) I was talking to one of my former professors at the J-school and he said that they kept *everything* -- not only the film you saw in the completed newsreels, but outtakes, shooting notes, files of stuff the cameramen picked up, everything. Dunno if USC has put its Movietone News archive guide or database online for the general public, but you can search it from the campus libraries' computers. If you're in Columbia, SC for anything, and get to jonesin' for some research, drop by and check it out.... Kurt wrote: >> For some reason big band music seems to go really well with ship building too. Nothing like Sing Sing Sing to get the blood pumping. At least now you know why my models look the way they do << Hmmm. If that's true, maybe I shouldn't listen to my 10,000 Maniacs CDs when I model -- that might make a difference.... ;) David Summers wrote: >> During its time of active service, it's said the nuclear merchant ship Savannah was restricted from large numbers of ports because of a fear of radiation and nuclear accident. I understand it spent much of its service time waiting for cargoes scheduled for the few allowed ports. << This is very true, and was one of the many difficulties this poor ship faced during her dozen or so years in service. I believe it also had something to do with why she didn't draw many passengers when her operators were offering passenger services. One story I've been told -- and I've not been able to verify this, so take it for what it's worth -- is that the ship's company went on strike and walked off the ship while she was tied up between voyages at Charleston, SC. With the reactor still going. They had to call in some nuclear guys from the naval shipyard to come in and shut her reactor down. Even after she was defueled in 1972, she had to undergo regular inspections by AEC/NRC. I talked to the engineer(s) at Patriots Point after the ship was returned, and they detailed the annual inspections for me -- they had to suit up, go into the reactor spaces, do inspections, and so forth. There was also a very long and very complicated agreement between NRC and the museum, sort of a "materials only" permit, and it's easily as complicated as any contract I've seen for a naval ship donated to a museum. And it makes great bedtime reading, too. All I know is I've been aboard her numerous times and I don't glow in the dark (yet).... jodie (wishing someone would write the definitive NS Savannah book, because she's too busy to do it herself) http://www.mindspring.com/~raisingirl/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Dave Shirlaw Subject: Towns Indeed the Town Class were ex USN destroyers named after towns in the UK and US with the same names. The ships that went directly to the RCN had names of rivers common to Canada and the US: Columbia, St Croix, St Francis, Annapolis, Columbia, Niagara. Dave Shirlaw Editor, Seawaves Magazine www.seawaves.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Fernando Espinoza" Subject: Re: 1/700 French Navy Photo-etch >> I have asked this question on the "Steelnavy" web site, but would also like to open a discussion here. With so many new 1/700 French Naval subjects being released, is it still premature to hope for a 1/700 photo-etch set for these ships? Are the economics not right for a set? How many modelers out there feel as I do in that they would like to see a set? << I was wondering how many of us really don´t like 1:700 scale ships at all. I think there are a lot SMMlies that have little interest in that scale. please let me know if i belong to the exclusive club that hate those tiny ships. FEED -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Doug Wilde" Subject: S-Boat plans I ordered the Schnellboote plans from Christian Schmidt and they arrived on Monday. One was Type S-38 and the other Type S-100. 1:25 scale, two sheets. One sheet of plan and profile, the other of hull lines. The drafting is lovely and contains a wonderful level of detail. The draftsman is Lothar Wischmeyer. Now I was trying to remember whether this is the fellow whom others on the list considered less accurate than desired. But a quick search of saved letters did not produce a hit. Comments? Included with the drawings was an additional set of details. Among these was the infamous stern bearing/rudder configuration that some modeler was asking about months ago. Well here it is, complete with dimensions. The others address the racks and fixtures that held the spare torpedoes as well as launch mechanism. Price was OK: DM40, which converts (today) at about $18.70 for each set of drawings. Delivery time was OK, too. I placed the order over the internet on 16 February and it arrived in my corner of NW Arkansas on 12 March, in a very sturdy tube and undamaged. Has anyone else ordered plans from Christian Schmidt and would they care to comment? Doug Wilde -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Ken P LeMaster" Subject: Lee Ship models I have a copy of the Lee Enterprise which is a knock off of the Otaki/Arii Enterprise in original configuration. I have not built the kit yet, so I cannot talk about fit of the ship parts. I have tried to build some of the planes that come with the kit and all I can say is don't even bother to try. The fit is poor at best and some of the parts do not fit at all! If you are going to get this kit, try to get the Arii set of 1/400 Navy planes. They are a little expensive, but the parts at least fit and you will not have to remake a lot of the parts to get a proper looking plane. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Martin Short" Subject: HMS Birmingham Simon, The Neptune model is correct, HMS Birmingham was unique amonst the Towns (Types I - III) in having a flared bow instead of a knuckle. Quite why/for what reason I don't know, but I am sure you will get the answer from this list. cheers, Martin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Franz Aigner GmbH" Subject: Colour of IJN submarines What colour were the IJN subs painted? The same grey(s) as the surface combatants? P.S.: Paul Kemp's book on midget submarines provided the answer to my recent question on the placement of the midget sub on the I-20 type: aft of the conning tower, with the bow facing aft. Happy modelling, Richard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Martin Short" Subject: Morskie Wars part XXI For what it is worth, my opinion that is, I have three of these AJ Press/Monograph Morskie/whatever publications... same people are responsible..same format. inspite of the series title.. and I have to agree with Dave Krakow..caveat emptor.. Apart from the variable photo quality, certainly in #7 & 8, there are basic errors in photo interpretation, and in the case of the #14 Nelson/Rodney book, ship identification. There are some plus points though: 1) despite the problems, I have found them useful as they have provided me with a number of different photos, (after all, I cannot read Polish so I have only bought them for the piccies...!!) which I am unlikely to come across easily down in this part of the world. I picked mine up during visits across the ditch to the Penal Colony (tic), for reasonable prices, so don't feel unduly hard done by. 2) For the #14 Nelson/Rodney volume at least, the photo reproduction is generally good, and in some cases where I have the same photo in other respected publications, actually better.. (e.g: the R-R book, BB's of WWII) The only other point I would add is: I have found photo interpretation in trying to determine time/armament fit etc of Battleships fraught with traps for the unwary, but there is enough assistance/expertise available, (through such venues such as this) for no-low cost, that such errors are inexcuseable in this day and age for a publication with any pretentions as reference material. cheers, Martin (Who is going to cop more flak over a certain remark than everything else put together, and no, we can't play cricket). Hi Martin, Like hell you Kiwis can't play cricket - you have a pretty good team there now ;-) As for Penal Colony, that's not a very nice attitude for the 7th state to take ;-ž Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: New Books from Classic Warships Hi Steve I recently read your remarks steve and the next time you have a bad day don't take it out on us. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: CokerRE@aol.com Subject: BOOKS FOR SALE That Gallant Ship, USS Yorktown (CV-5), Cressman1985 $20.00 THE FORGOTTEN WAR, A Pictorial History of WWII in Alaska,Cohen 1985 15.00 SHIP MODELS, Navies in Miniature, Wrigley 1973, Crescent Books $25.00 MODEL SHIPWRIGHT issues 22-28 and 45, $10 each reply off list to PC Coker at cokerre@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume