Subject: SMML VOL 1181 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:23:55 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Film Archives 2: Re: Town class camouflage in 1940 3: HMVS Cerberus {yet more}, the Victorian Flag, and the Monitor 4: Re: New Books from Classic Warships or "Foot IN mouth disease" 5: Re: 1/700 French Navy Photo-etch 6: A J Fisher Inc 7: Yes, I do 1/700 Scale Ships 8: Re: Sub in a park 9: Bismarck-wires? 10: Re: Wiper's varied career 11: Re: Flight Deck 12: Re: New Books from Classic Warships 13: Book 14: Re: Royal Oak video 15: Re: Hydrodynamics 16: Re: Flight Deck 17: Re: Savannah 18: Re: Penal colony 19: Re: New Books from Classic Warships 20: Re: Artitec Standaard (Kortenaer) Class Frigate Kit 21: S boat Plans 22: USS Pittsburgh 23: Color of IJN submarines 24: Re: Annealed wire 25: Nautilus & Lee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: IMPERIAL HOBBY PRODUCTIONS news 2: Raven British Battleship Book -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Donald Woolley Subject: Re: Film Archives John Snyder wrote: >> One of the best collections of which I'm aware is the Film Library at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). << jodie wrote: >> For those on the east coast of North America, there's something analogous at the University of South Carolina, which is home to a HUGE Movietone News archive. << There is also another choice in the southeastern US, in Winston-Salem, NC. While their database is not online yet, the North Carolina School of the Arts School of Filmmaking has the second largest film archive in the United States after the Library of Congress (25,000+ original 35mm prints of classic and contemporary motion pictures). Nicely for paint shade fanatics, the core of the archives is the Raymond J. Regis Collection, which is one of the largest privately held collections of Technicolor film in the world. Donald -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Town class camouflage in 1940 Dear Mr Smith, Do not be concerned about "foot in mouth". I once wrote a caption to a stern view photo of the battleship Queen Elizabeth called, "Looking up the rear of Queen Elizabeth". It never got into print fortunately; or unfortunately. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: HMVS Cerberus {yet more}, the Victorian Flag, and the Monitor David wrote, owning up to being The Paper Shipwright >> The flag to put in the model was a fascinating investigation in it's own right. Victoria was the first colonial state to acquire a warship (Cerberus) and this caused a lot of problems as to which flag a colonial navy could fly. The red or the white duster was out of the question and in the end the blue RN auxilliary flag was agreed, suitably defaced. The first Victorian Navy flag is as shown. It later acquired a (Victorian) crown above the stars. There are several good flag sites on the web if you want confirmation.<< I've also received a separate post from Laurie (I'm sorry, the last name escapes me) describing the original Victoria flag, the later "crowned" flags, and information on the movement to update the Australian National Flag. I'm sure that that debate will stir the national emotions. >> Good luck with making the model, Ed. I have just added another model to the list available, USS Monitor, also in 1:250 scale. Alas, not a free model though (got to make a living somehow!). << Thanks for the information. I must confess that I am a "plastic modeler". I have photocopied the plans and attached them (using water soluable glue) to 0.010 styrene stock. Then I am able to cut and trim the pieces of plastic - and soak the paper off - before gluing the parts up. I've laid up the hull ribs and the main deck (using scribed styrene stock). The challenge has been to figure out how to replace some of the paper details with plastic. The skylights will be problem. I'd like to finish the Cerberus as-built (with two masts), so the 1870 Victorian State flag will be appropriate. I'll let everyone know how it turns out. I was toying with another paper model of the Monitor when I stumbled upon the Paper Shipwright site. If the Cerberus turns out well I may approach either their new Monitor or the Swedish "Solve" monitor of the same era as the Cerberus. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Timothy Dike" Subject: Re: New Books from Classic Warships or "Foot IN mouth disease" >> You dont exactly want to "piss off" (now lets see the Brits interpret that one..."Oh Piss Off!) a 6ft. 5in., 235 pound beer drinking, my chest is still bigger than my gut, pickup truck driving, Sports and Stock Car racing fan, First Place in a pie eating contest, hates Marmite(and probably Vegimite), thinks "Bonding" is for girls(woman), did a little boxing, used to work in a strip club, was a life guard, been in a few bar fights, loves to fart in a crowded elevator as I step off at the next floor, guy WHO LOVES TO BUILD TOY BOATS!!! WHHOOO AAHHHH! << Really scary stuff there! Except that part about the stock car racing, and beer drinking. Anyone who plans on attending any of the IPMS or SMML conventions, please make note of that line about the crowded elevators before getting into an elevator with Steve! Ever notice how some of our best and brightest have some really questionable past lives. Not to make fun of a serious situations, but Steve may have contracted a mutation of the dreaded foot and mouth disease that it plaguing the UK. Seek help Steve before you spread the Foot IN mouth disease. Having said that we can overlook it all because you have been putting out some really great books. I really appreciate the work that publishers like Classic Warships has been doing in supplying us with reference material, and look forward to each new release. Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Timothy Dike" Subject: Re: 1/700 French Navy Photo-etch >> With so many new 1/700 French Naval > subjects being released, is it still premature to hope for a 1/700 photo-etch set for these ships? << If the demand is there then you can bet one of the Photo etch suppliers will fill that void. Pester your favorite PE manufacturers and see if they are willing to do those subjects. If they hear from enough modelers they may do a set. Maybe some of you French modelers should volunteer to help. There is a tremendous amount of research involved in producing a good PE set. Supplying good photo's and plans will make that trip to the marker a little quicker. >> I was wondering how many of us really donīt like 1:700 scale ships at all. I think there are a lot SMMlies that have little interest in that scale. please let me know if i belong to the exclusive club that hate those tiny ships. << The older I get the more I hate 700 scale! As the eyesight goes, and the thumbs seem to replace the fingers, 350 scale seems more attractive. However the shelf space has to more than double to justify a good 350 scale collection. However I'm hopelessly addicted to 700 scale and can't see a change right now! Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: A J Fisher Inc I have been informed that A.J.Fisher Inc., a mail-order house for ship models and fittings, is going out of business, and will not accept orders after April 30. This not a plug for them, merely passing on a bit of information so that anyone contemplating getting anything from Fisher could get their order in soon. Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Ray Montgomery Subject: Yes, I do 1/700 Scale Ships >> I was wondering how many of us really donīt like 1:700 scale ships at all. I think there are a lot SMMlies that have little interest in that scale. please let me know if i belong to the exclusive club that hate those tiny ships." << I, for one, build 1/700 scale ships, usually WWII cruisers (13 ships in the fleet so far). I like the scale because it allows me to build a larger number of cruiser classes and display them in standard size display boxes...that is certainly hard to do with the larger scales (although I have a bunch of 1/350 to do also). Being a former aircraft modeler, the hardest part involved learning new skills such as PE folding and installation, working with very small parts, scratch-building tripod masts, etc., and learning to paint the different paint measures (often with a brush with much switching from horizontal to vertical surfaces). Naturally, the research library had to expand as well as the types of tools I used (thank heaven for magnifying visors). I also had to build a special elevated work platform, use a revolving "lazy susan" stand to minimize the amount of handling, and provide better lighting of the work area. In spite of the difficulties and frustrations, 1/700 is a good scale for modeling because of the wide variety of cruiser subjects and eras that are available today. Many of the kits are of very high quality and really turn out well. Ray Montgomery -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: Sub in a park We have one here in the states, only this one is a real one in Muskogee, Oklahoma - the USS BATFISH. They originally dredged a small channel for her to sit in but at some time the river flooded and filled everything in and she is high and dry - but the neat part is you can walk around and see the torpedo doors and so on. But from the freeway you look over and see the 300 foot submarine sitting there and it is really out of place in the Oklahoma landscape. Mike Donegan NAVYDAZE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Leon Gerber" Subject: Bismarck-wires? Hi there Has anyone out there ever built a 1/350th scale Bismarck? I got myself the Academy one but the details (on the instruction-sheet) of the super-structure wasn't very clear. Now I'm having trouble with the wires between the masts. If anyone has a diagram or something, would you please mail me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thankx y'all Leon Gerber -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:43:54 EST Subject: Re: Wiper's varied career >> I've met you, I hope the stint was on the audience side of the footlights; I don't even want to imagine you in a go-go cage!! :-) << Bradford, tell us this is not true, because that would be really scary, you watching male dancers!!! Look out!!!! In answer to your question, I worked as a bouncer and hosted/anounced for the "Hot Body" contest on Friday nights, in probably one of the best FEMALE strip clubs in the good 'ol USA. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Flight Deck >> This Question could be for one who is very good at building flight decks out of Wood and in 1\96 scale, as I'm still looking to build the carrier USS Langley as a seaplane Tender, with the forward 1\4 of the fight deck missing, My question is, what kind of scale wood could one use? And where does one get this scale wood? Either in plank form or strips and maybe basswood Will work? << Robert, You can get nice little strips of bass wood at your local hobby shop or hardware store, in the USA, that is, from a company named Midwest Hardwoods. Just start asking around locally. USN carriers used a 6x2.5" plank of Douglas Fir for the decks, cut to lengths of 14, 16, 18, & 24. In 1/96 (1/8th inch to a foot scale) the 6" width is a 1/16 of an inch, which they make pre cut in 24in (192 scale feet) lengths. Langley brings up questions. Did she have decks of 6" wide boards, were they Douglas Fir, did the boards run port and starboard, or fore and aft, and the most sought after question (in my cavernous mind), were the deck tie downs the same as on CV2 and 3, or were they the strip variety as on all other carriers after the Lexingtons? The type on the Lexingtons was almost identical to the type used on IJN carriers, a round ring with a bar through the middle, 6" in diameter. Please see if you can help us out with answers to these questions. And now a question for all SMMLies, How long is a piece of string? Thanks, Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: New Books from Classic Warships >> I recently read your remarks steve and the next time you have a bad day don't take it out on us. << Oh Craig, That was a good day! Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Book Many thanks to all who responded to my request for info on the Portsmouth Warships book. I'll chase it up through my local library. Cheers! Regards Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo kupu kaore e taea te karo (Te reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Art" Subject: Re: Royal Oak video >> I have just received a beta copy of a video about HMS Royal Oak from Ocean optics. this video really is a must as it has quite a few shots and footage of her pre war but mainly covers the underwater stuff (guns then guns now sort of thing) when they were granted a diving licence to visit the ship last year, also has interviews with survivors. << .....Many thanks for this information Richard, my uncle served in this ship and went down with her, the family will be thrilled to have a copy. Art -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Art" Subject: Re: Hydrodynamics Malcolm: >> 1) Actually he would be broadside to the wind. The proper way to retrieve a man overboard is motor up to windward of the target, turn broadside to the wind and then drift down to the victim. 2)This I'll leave to someone with naval service experience. 3)No white stuff! As the boat drifts down, props will be disengaged so as not to risk turning the the man overboard to shark chum. In smaller boats, a person with proper boat training will actually shut off the engines, so that there will be no chance of accidentally engaging the prop durring the operation. 4) Waste water? You mean bilge water, or engine cooling water? For the Snellboots I recall the bilge outlets being located in the vicinity of the engine compartment. As for Engine cooling water (someone with more specialized knowledge on shnellboots may be able to give a better answer) but I seem to recall that they were powered by diesels, in which case the cooling water would normally be dumped into the exhaust, and exit the vessel through that outlet. For bilge water,(i.e. if the vessel is taking on water) the the force, and arc would be similar to a person writing their name in the snow. :-) << ..........Do not entirely concur with the above. The technicalities yes, the situation No. The possibilities are endless for a diogramme depicting a downed pilot, and the method used was entirely up to the whim of the skipper at the time depending on the circumstances prevailing. Enough documented evidence exists to back up every scenario from a 'classic' rescue to one of the pilot being washed on board in a heavy sea.. From John Suckling of Suckling Hall, home of Nelsons' family, ex Flt.Lt. and skipper of an Air/Sea Rescue Launch who picked up many downed pilots of every nationality and also ploughed his boat up onto the beach in poor visibility at full bore, Harbour Master and Pilot of Tobruk WW2 who surprised many warship skippers when navigating between the wrecks into the wharf etc etc. Oh and the re-unions with rescued Luftwaffe pilots after the war in Mainz together with S Boot skippers. (I mention this for reference purposes). Art -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Art" Subject: Re: Flight Deck >> This Question could be for one who is very good at building flight decks out of Wood and in 1\96 scale, as I'm still looking to build the carrier USS Langley as a seaplane Tender, with the forward 1\4 of the fight deck missing, My question is, what kind of scale wood could one use? And where does one get this scale wood? Either in plank form or strips and maybe basswood Will work? << Nice to hear of another 1/96 CV nut! I use 1/16th walnut veneer strips that come in 1" x 20' lengths and bleach them pior to cutting to size to make the 'look' resemble teak/fir/spruce etc. Where are you? I have been hoarding n thousand metres of the stuff waiting for a worthy project. Also have a video of the Langley if you are interested.? Art -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Art" Subject: Re: Savannah >> During its time of active service, it's said the nuclear merchant ship Savannah was restricted from large numbers of ports because of a fear of radiation and nuclear accident. I understand it spent much of its service time waiting for cargoes scheduled for the few allowed ports. << One of the 'permitted' ports was Southampton UK and I had the pleasure of being a guest on board in mid '64 as part of a cadet exchange. My memories come down to that she was ahead of her time. >> All I know is I've been aboard her numerous times and I don't glow in the dark (yet).... jodie << The cook tells me that I glow in the dark - but not from radiation !! ;-)) Art -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Art" Subject: Re: Penal colony >> As for Penal Colony, that's not a very nice attitude for the 7th state to take ;-þ << Don't count your chickens Shane, it could still be the other way around! Art -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Art" Subject: Re: New Books from Classic Warships >> I recently read your remarks steve and the next time you have a bad day don't take it out on us. Craig What was it? Jack Daniels or a single malt? Art -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: Re: Artitec Standaard (Kortenaer) Class Frigate Kit Someone was enquiring about information for detailing/checking accuracy of the Artitec "S" Class frigate kit. Some years ago Dutch publisher Ten Brink Maritiem of Meppel, The Netherlands, published a series of books under the generic name "Vlootrevue Serie Maritiem". I have three of them, they are excellent. Text is Dutch (for obvious reasons) but photographs are comprehensive and reproduction is of a very high quality. The three I have are: "Fregatten Kortenaer-klasse/Luchtverdediging" (Frigates Kortenaer Class/Air Defence) by C.Heijkoop. 80 pages, A6 format "Kustmijnenvegers AMS-en Dokkumklasse" (Coastal Minesweepers AMS and Dokkum Classes) by F.Bertijn. 80 pages, A6 format "Mijnenjagers Alkmaar-klasse" (Mine Hunters Alkmaar Class which is the Dutch/Belgian/French Tripartite mine hunter project) by A.J.C.Veenstra. 64 pages, A6 format. I would imagine these to be OOP (they were publushed in the mid 1980s) but there are one or two Dutch second hand book dealers who advertise in "Ships Monthly" and "Sea Breezes" who could probably help. In addition to the above, I have always found the Public Relations departments of the Royal Netherlands Navy and shipbuilders Royal Schelde extremely helpful in response to a polite enquiry. Hope this helps. Harold Lincoln -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: S boat Plans Doug Wilde asked about a draftsman who was reputed to be inaccurate. I believe that name is Edward Wiswesser. His whose drawings were made in the US. Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: USS Pittsburgh Are there pics of Dave Judy building the Balt. Kit from Commanders on steelnavy.com, I can't find them? Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "wblad" Subject: Color of IJN submarines I have not seen any comprehensive work on the subject, but I have picked up bits'n pieces on my own over the years. Here's what little I know: In the immediate pre-war and early war period IJN subs were painted the same gray(s) as surface ships. Early in the war, some subs had horizontal surfaces, such as decks and hangar tops, painted black. In some cases the demarckation line was wavy, in others, straight. It seems to have varied from sub to sub, but all appear to have a hard edge and therefore would have been brush painted, not sprayed. Later, all black conning towers on gray hulls appear - on some subs. Later still , some Ro series subs appear to be all-black. At least one sub had camoflage "splotches" on the conning tower. The colors are uncertain. At the end of the war, the large I-400 series subs were all gray. When used, recognition markings of red circles (hinomarus) on white canvas panels, were lashed to the sides of conning towers, rather than painted directly onto the conning tower surface. I'm sorry that all this is unspecific and uncertain. The definitive work on IJN submarine colors and markings has yet to be written. I hope that someone else knows more and responds. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Annealed wire >> book I have recommend using #33 or # 34 black annealed wire. << Hi; Start calling the larger hardware stores in town. That's where I got some, Home Depot. Might find something usable in electronics supply stores, but try hardware stores first. Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Ian MacCorquodale" Subject: Nautilus & Lee Hi Folks, I was in my favorite hobby shop (Nautilus Hobbies, Halifax) and noticed a big selection of Lindberg kits. Nautilus, Hood, LST, Gato's etc. I looked at the Nautilus kit, and wondered if the cover art is indicative of the kit inside. Anyone have an opinion? It looks like a really bad toy! Hood looks interesting though, its in a really BIG box! :-) I have several Lee models, and indeed the aircraft in the Enterprise kit are dismal, especially the Sea Kings. The kit looks pretty good. I have almost completed Lee's 1/300 OHP, and aside from a few bitches, like no decals and ugly flight deck netting, I found it quite good with some effort required. Their 1/600 Iowa's are definitely off, as a matter of fact I have one here to trade if anyones interested. (I guess I wouldnt make a good salesman!!) Cheers, Ian http://www.geocities.com/macrachael/ Naval Photography...So much to Sea -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mike Bartel Subject: IMPERIAL HOBBY PRODUCTIONS news IMPERIAL HOBBY PRODUCTIONS has some product information: The new 1:700 scale metal FANTASQUE kit will retail for $27.00. It will be available at a special introductory price of $24.00 until 1 June 2001. The kit will be available on 2 June 2001. (At least that is the date we're shooting for.) For more information, check the Website at: http://ihphobby.tripod.com or email me at: mkwb@excite.com. Mike Bartel IHP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bill Gruner Subject: Raven British Battleship Book Have a good copy of Raven & Roberts BRITISH BATTLSHIPS OF WORLD WAR 2. Best general reference ever done on the subject. Now out of print and very scarce. This copy is missing the dust jacket and shows some staining on the covers; good workbench copy for the modeler. Best offer by March 20. Thanks, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies 541-464-8579 http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume