Subject: SMML VOL 1185 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 00:20:08 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: REAGAN CLASS CVN? 2: Re: Land locked subs 3: Re: Great Eastern 4: Re: REAGAN Class 5: Heller Scheer 6: USS Ronald Reagan 7: Heller Admiral Scheer 8: Paris and Normandie in April... 9: New Classes and who decides 10: Re: New England Ships 11: USS Ronald Reagan 12: Ships displayed in town 13: Re: Reagan Class CVN 14: Re: NAMESHIP AND CLASS CHANGE OF CV? 15: Need some help - again 16: Re: Reagan/Nimitz class 17: Re: Pearl Harbor Trailer & Movie 18: Re: Ronald Reagan (USS) and Aussie Buck ($) 19: Re: REAGAN CLASS CVN? 20: USS Albacore & USS Nautilus 21: Re: Monografie Morskie 22: HMS VANGUARD - New Kit 23: Prinz Eugen 24: career progression -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: W R PRESS Camouflage Vol Two -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: James Corley Subject: Re: REAGAN CLASS CVN? The RR is an SCB-102A hull, by navy records, thus making her the sixth Roosevelt sub-class carrier. The Nimitz was a SCB-102. Considering the design and construction lead times, these classes evolve from unit to unit. The planning folks are calling CVN-77 a Nimitz hull, but she'll likely be more deserving of an SCB-102B or some such designator. IKE is scheduled to finish her (why do we call a ship named after a man "her"?) RCOH this month and return to the fleet by this summer. AFAIK, she didn't get the new style island as of last spring. It is possible that eventually all the class will be upgraded to the Reagan level, or even the level of CVN-77 if that program works as hoped. As somebody else stated, the hull and such are still the same. The reactors and "transmission" are still the same. It takes a radical refit or conversion for the navy to assign a new SCB number to a class of ships. The Kitty Hawk class is a good example. Kitty and Connie are part of the SCB-127A group, America is the SCB-127B while JFK is the SCB-127C. The primary differences were in the engineering plants, the catapult outfit and original weapons. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Land locked subs >> If you are a submarine fan and are planning to be in New England (the Northeast corner of U.S.) for a visit, a trip to the Albacore is recommended. Heck, while you are at it come to see "Old Ironsides" (U.S.S Constitution) in Boston, "Charles W. Morgan" in Mystic, Connecticut, U.S.S. Nautilus (I am not sure just where she is, perhaps a SMMLer can tell us), << The Nautilus is at the Sub Base Submarine Museum in Groton, CT. The website is: http://www.ussnautilus.org/ Check out their hours of operation as there are closures for maintenance Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: Great Eastern >> Me and a friend are gathering information about the 1859 launched British steam vessel Great Eastern. We are planning on scratch built models. One in 1/600 scale, the other in 1/350 scale. There is not too much info around. We have gathered dozens of pics, theGerman paper model and body plans that show frames. << When I visited the National Marritime Museum in Greenwich (UK) last year they had a very nice model on display of Great Eastern under contruction ('in frame' with some plating added; probably around 1857). As the museum has a very strict 'no photography allowed' policy I couldn't photograph it but maybe the staff of the NMM can help. They have a website; http://www.nmm.ac.uk/ I would be very intersting to see pictures the results of your project on the SMML site as I am fascinated with ships if the 'transition' period, and so are many others on SMML. Pieter Cornelissen Delft The Netherlands Who has just reduced the HMVS Cerberus drawings to 1/700. My position in the 700/350 debate shpuld be clear I think. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Hank Lapa" Subject: Re: REAGAN Class Don't forget there were long-hull and short-hull ESSEX-class CVs in WW2. They were still all ESSEX-class ships. After the SBC mods, etc., the class was split, at least in the jargon. "World Navy Base?" It must've taken a committee to come up with that dopey designation. Hank -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: John Clements Subject: Heller Scheer In vol 1184, Denis James asked about the Heller Scheer. I too have the model unmade as yet, and much the same set of references. It does seem to be a characteristic of Heller kits that what is in the box is not the same as on the artwork, and does not easily fit references. As far as I can see, the kit itself is largely as refitted in 1940, except that the funnel cowl is too large (being more akin to that fitted in 1942. It does not represent the disposition of the light AA armament in 1942, but could easily be made to do so. In fact, this would probably be the best solution, though this would also require the fitting of a FuMO 26 set on the aft director - this is included in the GMM 1/400 German ship set, which is a must for any of these Heller KM kits. As far as a plan is concerned, I have just bought one from Floating Drydock which was cheap and comprehensive. It does have some detail differences from other plans that you mention, but has the merit of being close to 1/400 scale. Hope this is helpful, John Clements -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Dave Shirlaw Subject: USS Ronald Reagan Ronald Reagan CVN 76 will be the ninth Nimitz Class. She is noteworthy in being the last carrier to be built with steam catapults. The tenth unit of the class, which Congress has requested to be named Lexington (but the navy has not responded to that request as yet) is officially the tenth and last unit of the Nimitz Class. CVN 77 will be a transitional ship with new technologies such as electromagnetic catapults and new island design. The succeeding class is currently known as the CVNX 1 design, whether it will adhere to the traditional hull numbering is not known yet. To update the older USN carriers life left: CV 63 Constellation is deploying for the last time this month. She will be in Australia in mid April. Will be decommissioned late next year and replaced by Ronald Reagan at San Diego. CV 64 Kitty Hawk will be based in Japan until 2007 at which time she will be replaced by John F Kennedy CV 67 and decommissioned. CVN 65 Enterprise will be replaced by CVNX 1 and scrapped around 2010 or so. Dave Shirlaw Editor, Seawaves Magazine www.seawaves.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Peter K. H. Mispelkamp Subject: Heller Admiral Scheer This kit is a real mix-up. A) It is missing the post 1940 refit degaussing cable. I solved this problem by cutting a piece of thread, running it through white glue and pasting it in place. After spraypainting, it adhered nicely to the hull. In fact, my Scheer is about 20 years old now and the cable is still in place. B) The general superstructure (forward) is post 1940 refit, but the funnel cap seems to be circa 1942, while the funnel ring appears to be in its 1939/40 fit. Bryer's "bible" depicts a more triangular shaped funnel platform with only three search light positions. I re-shaped and added plastic as needed to achieve this! C) In 1940, the aft superstructure of the Scheer seems to have been enlarged as well. I resolved this problem by cutting the screenings around the aft 4.1 inch mounts, moving them forward, and adding strips of plastic to the deck. I simulated the the deck grooves by carefully scratching them into the new plastic. D) I added the radar mattress and a cupola to the rear range finder. If you do this, be very careful with the catapult - the tail of the Ar 196 will hit it! E) I added another, smaller, radar screen just aft of the one fitted by Heller on the foretop cupola, as well as an assortment of 20 mm quads, twins, singles as well as 40mm singles. In short, a lot of detail work, but she at least looks like all of her is the same time period. Hope this helps! Sincerely Peter K. H. Mispelkamp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "larsenal" Subject: Paris and Normandie in April... Hello all!, Just a few words to say that Paris and Normandie are REALLY worth a visit in April! In Paris if you are military museums minded, here is the ultimate selection: - Of course Le Musée de la Marine that is very close to the Eiffel Tower (in fact in Le Trocadéro place). This one of the finest Museum in the world. It is interesting to note that the Museum will be improved in the years to come. -Le Musée de l'Armée in Les Invalides. Very interesting collections of military art, weapons, etc... -Le Musée de l'Air in Paris Le Bourget. One of the finest Museum in the World. They have very rare examples of I-16, Yak-3, Me-163, Spitfire, Morane 406, Dewoitine D-520, etc... In Normandie (where I live !!!, one of the nicest place in the world !!!) -Museums -D-Day museum in Arromanches, it shows how the artificial harbour was built. -The Mémorial of Caen, very impressive and instructive Museum. It explains how WWII came because of WWI, of course WWII, and post War years to the Vietnam War and Cold War. Really worth a visit. Of course, make a trip to Omaha, Ste-Mère-Eglise, and see that Saving Private Ryan is not a joke. Very impressive and hart shocking place in Omaha, specially if your visit the beach one rainny day like it was some 60 years ago... Castles and old tones Mandatory Le Mont St Michel ( 1000 years old and still going strong ! ) St Malo Honfleur Normandie is only 3 hours of driving far from Paris, rent a car, it will make your trip easier. Best regards, Jacques Druel L'Arsenal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "JOHN CURRIE" Subject: New Classes and who decides >> I guess the big question is what determines a new class of ship? New hull, superstructure, internal design changes like engines and power plant? << A good question there Rusty, the Wasp and Tarawa are basically the same Hull, as were/are the Kids, Spruance and Ticonderoga Classes. So come on own up who decides??????????? J W Currie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: New England Ships Franklyn, The USS Naurilus is at the Submarine Force Museum and Library at Grotton, CT. There are several other smaller submersables on display as well as all kinds of submarine related items including my model of Plunger, AND IT'S FREE. Your Friend, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: USS Ronald Reagan Newport News Shipbuilders contacted me several months ago about this. I directed them to Testors/Italeria. They NNS informed me that have worked out a deal with Testors to come out with the kit soon with all of the modifications. This kit will be on sale also at the Reagan Library too. Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Doug Wilde" Subject: Ships displayed in town Speaking of naval ships displayed in towns, I came across the following near Calument, on the Keweenaw peninsula of Michigan (thats the little one sticking out into Lake Superior). http://www.cox-internet.com/wilde/Images/ferrocement.jpg I think it is the last surviving example of the Sandstone class of gunboats. Help in identifying the armament would be greatly appreciated. I think plans are available from the Portland Company. Doug Wilde -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Reagan Class CVN >> Interesting musing, but Newport News still calls it the 9th NIMITZ hull and the USN will probably continue with the same. Hull length, width and flight deck are marginally the same and in shape characteristics.....its sorta like the new modified designs of DDG Arleigh Burke class now with the Flight II Helicopter hangar characteristic, same class of ship, same hulls, modification II.....hey, I am no expert, but perhaps you were just musing anyway, right? << Yes Ray, I was a little. I just think it would great if there were a new Reagan class. As you said, just musing a bit. Waiting for my WEM Knox in the mail and the Adams still in the drydock getting fitted with the mast. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://okclive.com/flagship/ You can now pay using your Visa / MasterCard "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: stillmo@mb.sympatico.ca Subject: Re: NAMESHIP AND CLASS CHANGE OF CV? Hi Rusty: First of all I am absolutely no expert on this, nor trying to be, but I have seen in so many publications where JOHN F. KENNEDY has been named as a 'class of her own' because she differed so much from CONNIE and KITTY. And it some cases JFK has been named as the same class as CONNIE and KITTY. Same with AMERICA. Sort of an improved KITTY HAWK class,.....but different island configuration, same general layout of FD and elevators, but different starboard side desing arrangement with bulges. The WWII stuff was pretty much definable in all classes I think. Even though MIDWAY went through huge reconstruction and emerged as a total new ship design, she was still nameship of the class of 3, and CORAL SEA and FDR also emerged differently. Remember, according to Janes, the last surviving ship of the class in service got the 'nameship' of that class. I THINK that CV 62, the last of all the FORRESTALS, was labelled as INDEPENDANCE class, if I can recall, even though she was a FORRESTAL. this happenned a lot with the small boys but I dont wanna go there. The new CVX I am sure will have its own class namesake. I could be off on all this, but these are just my observations and more knowledgable people out there may serve up their corrections. Yours aye, Ray D. Bean -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Need some help - again Some months ago I asked for help tracing a COLONEL JOHN DRAYTON WAINWRIGHT who is buried in Arlington for a good friend. Some kind SMML soul found some info and sent it to me. I, then, sent it to my friend and deleted my info. My friend had a computer crash and he lost this info as a result. Again, if the gentleman who found this for me originally will be good enough to try again, we would be most appreciative. Thank you. John - Seattle USN 1944 - 1946 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: louellet@uism.bu.edu Subject: Re: Reagan/Nimitz class Rusty White SHIPMDLR@aol.com wrote: >> After watching some of the footage of the commissioning of the Reagan, none of the commentators made mention of the class of the carrier (at least from what I heard). I thought it was a Nimitz class. However, with that new and unique island configuration, is there a possibility that this could the flagship of a "Reagan" class carrier? << The USS Reagan is a Nimitz class carrier. I've read that the island is the same as the others except that it has one less internal deck. The extra space was given to make each deck taller. The next generation carrier is going to use the Nimitz hull, but will make more use of stealth technology. They will alsoupgrade all the internal systems and make many thousands of improvements overall. There were many thousands of changes made to the Burke class destroyers when going to the Fight IIA versions, but they are still the same class. Larry Ouellette Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) United States Naval Shipbuilding Museum Quincy Massachusetts USA http://www.uss-salem.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: louellet@uism.bu.edu Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor Trailer & Movie When the Pearl Harbor movie was being filmed, everybody was worried because of the modern ships moored in the harbor. When the first trailer was released, the masts of modern ships could be seen, but there was also footage of accurate ships. The film's website has photographs of the attack aftermath and it shows very good models representing the ships as they were in 1941. The CGI work and other special effects will probably be worked on until around the end of April. What does this mean? Don't judge the movie until it is released. The recent film "13 Days" had modern jets in the background in one scene in the trailer. It turns out it was filmed only for ad purposes and that innaccurate footage was not part of the film. As RD Bean said in his message yesterday, this film will tell the story to a whole new generation. They may even want to read about it, or build a model ship after seeing the movie. Look what "Titanic" did for ship model sales! Larry Ouellette Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) United States Naval Shipbuilding Museum Quincy Massachusetts USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Chuck Messer" Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan (USS) and Aussie Buck ($) I only caught milisecond glimpses of the Reagan's island and got the impression it was different. Are there some sites where I could see some photos? To all the Aussie smmlies, sorry to hear about the money problems. I hope this is just a little bump in the road and you'll all come out all right. Chuck Hi Chuck, Thanks for that - much appreciated. However since my order from WEM arrived last week with HMS Chester & the Svent Istvan & based on my building rate - these will last me until the Aussie dollar climbs back up ;-) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: REAGAN CLASS CVN? Hi SMMLies, Some small changes to the Reagan hull. CVN 76 is the first Nimitz hull to receive a large and rather long bulbous bow. The bow below the waterline now extends out almost as far as the flightdeck hangs out beyond the waterline stem. She will have some knew sponsons added to her aft end, I noticed on the starboard side all the way aft. The other big change is the island structure. It is longer and has the mast that was once located on the flightdeck just aft of the island now mounted on the island aft of the main mast. The new class looks as though it is not much different then the Nimitz class. From what I've seen in mock-ups it is very much the same dimensions as Nimitz. KTB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Vmclawyer@aol.com Subject: USS Albacore & USS Nautilus Albacore was built sometime in the late 50's I believe. I was in subs from '62-'66 & she was in commission then. Alabacore was a test bed for submarine design/engineering, particularly, submerged high speed & handling at high speeds submerged. She had a monster, exotic composition battery, & she could do 30+ kts in a burst [1/2 hr. battery rate]. Her hull shape obviously became the standard for all the boats that followed her. There are many stories about Alabacore. She had quite a history. In one famous incident that had the sub community laughing, Albacore got to make a short cruise. Her on-board engine-driven generator couldn't begin to fully charge her battery. She pulled into a port, I seem to rember that it was Pt. Everglades, FL, needing a battery charge. The port command hooked her up to shore power to do a battery charge, but encountered a small problem. Albacore's battery voltage was greater than the output voltage of the shore generator. Result, Albacore's battery motorized the generator before the breaker cleared, trashing the shore generator in the process in a blaze of sparks & fire that had yard workers diving out of windows in the generator shed. USS Nautilus, the first nuke boat, is on display beside the sub base in New London, Conn. Operated against her a number of times. She was so noisy. Even w/sonar of that era, if the sonar conditions were decent, you could pick her up @20,000 + yds. As noisy as she was, the early Russian nukes were even louder. So noisy they were impossible to miss if within 10 miles, even in poor sonar conditions. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: royrichey@att.net Subject: Re: Monografie Morskie Dennis, Try these sites out, I just got them emailed to me. They are in German, but you can feel your way through them. http://www.fireball.de enter ship name in search http.//www.geocities.com/pentagon/quarters/5768 Roy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: HMS VANGUARD - New Kit Hi list I got news of a new resin kit of HMS Vanguard in 1/700 scale. I still don't know who is the factorer, but as it is offered by Aeromodel/Eduard, it may come from somewhere arround the Czech corner. I also didn't see the kit yet, but I got a copy of the building instructions. Judging from them, the kit should be of a medium quality standard with some faults. The crack of the main deck looks a little too heavy and should be placed a little more forward, and the shape of the stern looks completely incorrect. (I can't believe this, and as I only saw the building instructions there is hope that these drawings are wrong.) The light AA armament is according to an early state of planning, but was never fitted that way (as far as I know). Also the small guns loook rather primitive. The boats too seem to be of a rather crude type. There are PE parts for the outriggers of the cranes (the rest is a simple cylindric structure), funnel grills, railings, some rather primitive davits, and some other small parts. There are no PE parts for the radar equippment. But there are PE parts for the overhanging decks of the superstructure. They have to be cemented flat against the resin parts which is the worst and less reliable kind of fixing them I know. Also the adjacent deck parts have engraved lines to show planking, while these PE parts surely don't. Gun barrels have to be cemented to the turrets which I consider to be outmoded. There is not much detailing shown in the building instructions, but this may be different with the real model. As I already said, I haven't seen the real kit yet. So these comments can only be advanced impressions or something like a pre-review. The price is about $ 90, and this is not much for a battleship. The shape of the stern should be correctable, and if you are ready for some scratch-building, this kit may be o.k. But - caveat emptor! - I'd recommend to first have a look into the box before buying it. Or maybe someone else on this list can provide more information. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Baumbach, Werner" Subject: Prinz Eugen Hello All, I just finished the book "Prinz Eugen im ersten Gefecht" (Prinz Eugens first Battle). It was published in the 40ies I think still during the war and is full of propaganda and rhetoric. Definetely interesting from that standpoint, as you sometimes just sit there shaking your head. The theories are sometimes simply hair raising. The book left me with a couple of topics that I would like to throw in for discussion: - I remember a discussion here a while back about the swastikas on the decks of Bismarck and Prinz Eugen. I don't remember what the outcome was. Were they red or grey? (the background I mean, the swastika itself is black in a white Circle, I guess) I have seen a line drawing, where it was shown bright red. Wouldn't that have been a little to bright and easy to spot for enemy aircraft? The book has also several pictures in it. On some of them I can see the markings, on others I can't? Were the markings removed during Operation Rheinuebung? Or is that just an optical phenomenon? Also, would that have been on bow and stern? As it was meant for easier ID by Luftwaffe planes, maybe it was removed as soon as the ships left the Luftwaffes area of operation. - As I said, most of the comments on Allied Navies (especially the Royal Navy) are simple propaganda and easily recongnizable as that. There is one comment about the Narvik operations that is probably one as well, but maybe someone here has more input on it. The author states, that German sailors in their life rafts were being fired at by British forces. Is that just another misinformation, or did that happen. The book draws a similar picture about British forces at other pages, that are more obvious a lie, here I could not find an other source, so I thought I'd throw it in here. - During the arial attacks on Bismarck, the book states very bad weather conditions. Did the planes make it back to the carriers or did they have to use land based air fields. - And finally, is there a good English book about the hunt on Bismarck that was also published in the 40ies? it would be very interesting to read it from the other perspective, but from the same period of time. Happy modelling Werner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: career progression Hi Jodie Jodie writ.. >> I *knew* someone was going to say that! (And now I teach for a living, so you might really see a pattern emerging....) :) << Then pray tell why write it? Oh please...teaching is a more honourable profession (my father was a first class teacher and lecturer and former soldier), at least it is doing something creative and hopefully helpful for the future. Anybody have some decent deck plans of the WWII cruiser HMAS Sydney? Am currently converting the Airfix Ajax to Sydney, Cheers. Simon Wolff currently changing careers.... Be the change that you want to see in the world. Gandhi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: W R PRESS Camouflage Vol Two Camouflage Volume Two Royal Navy 1942, is in the process of being shipped to the dealers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume