Subject: SMML VOL 1196 Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:37:12 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: NEW WEM KITS 2: Submarine Espionage 3: Haze Gray Admiral 4: Re: ICM HOOD 5: Re: ICM HOOD pricing 6: Re: Hobby Stores in Tokyo 7: CA Reaction 8: Re: Adverse Reaction to CA Glue 9: Re: ICM Hood 10: Production Runs 11: Re: converting ship scales to fractions 12: Re: ICM Hood discussion 13: Aurora Colors 14: Re: ICM Hood 15: Re: J& D Production hulls 16: Re: Recycling in Germany 17: ICM Hood Kit 18: Re: If you miss the sub 19: ICM (Once Again) 20: ICM Hood 21: Re: CA Glue adverse reaction 22: A few facts about ICM ship kits 23: Re: Cruisers in Camera 24: Re: USS Iowa Thread... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: APMA now has PayPal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: USS TEXAS Print 2: APA crewmembers 3: British Battleships 1919-1939 by Burt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Dimi Apostolopoulos Subject: NEW WEM KITS Dear John, Caroline and Dave, What are the chances that we will see WEM-kits of any of the Illustrious class carriers or Colony class cruisers? There so many variants and beautiful schemes to go for... Would these subjects be of good marketability? Dimi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Submarine Espionage If you are interested in the outstanding spy service of USN subs during the "Cold War" I suggest you read: Blind Man's Bluff by S. Sontag and C. Drew Harper Military History Paperback. John - Seattle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Haze Gray Admiral >> IF the Essex is an ACCURATE kit, I'll spend what's left of my retirement checks with no hesitation at all! << Come on Bert, you know as well I as I do that you're not retired! Jeff Herne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: DaveRiley1@aol.com Subject: Re: ICM HOOD John, That was a very clear and well written description of the market process. That being said: where is the WEM 1/350 Gearing FRAM 1 DD? After looking at the incredible quality of the DDG-2 and FF-1052 produced by the WEM/JAG combo, it is clear to me that White Ensign is the ONLY vendor where I would purchase a FRAM 1 DD. There are a lot more of us "younger" type sailors around who served on the FRAM DDs in the 1960s-1980s than there are "older" WW2 / Korea types who served on non-FRAMmed DDs. A much bigger market exists for these non-existant 1/350 FRAMs than there is for the existing 1/350 non-FRAM Gearings now on the market. And I do own the JAG 1/700 FRAM 1 Gearing. I will now get down off my soapbox. Dave Riley Portsmouth, RI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Joe Reyna Subject: Re: ICM HOOD pricing Greetings fellow SMML-lies and -ettes, Please allow me to toss another fly into the ointment of this great thread: I wonder if anyone from Heller Models has been privy to this discussion regarding pricing of ICM's upcoming HMS HOOD? At 1/400 scale, Heller's model of the HMS HOOD, while certainly not as detailed as the recent 1/350 scale resin kits, would stand up well with a proper outfitting of after-market photo-etched brass. This kit, long out of production, commands between $100-200 at the various real and virtual swap meet venues. I would imagine that, were Heller so inclined, a reissue of this kit would command a price in the range of $30-40; again, certainly not a museum masterpiece out of the box, but a basis for building and superdetailing that would cost far less than either the resin kits or, apparently, the ICM offering. Heller, are you listening? While I'm at it, consider that Heller has offered the following interesting subjects all in 1/400 scale: British capital ships HOOD, KING GEORGE V, and the carrier ILLUSTRIOUS; German capital ships BISMARCK, SCHARNHORST, GNEISENAU, GRAF SPEE, PRINZ EUGEN; French capital ships JEAN BART, RICHELIEU, and carriers CLEMENCEAU, ARROMANCHES and CHARLES de GAULLE. Add to that impressive list the TAURO Italian POLA battlecruiser kits, the old OTAKI Japanese Battleships MUTSU and NAGATO, the TAMIYA cruiser CHOKAI and sisters, the MARUSAN aircraft carrier SHINANO, the NICHIMO YAMATO and MUSASHI - all in 1/400 scale! Someone must have these molds somewhere! Imagine the clamor resulting from merely reissuing all of these leviathans, the molds already engineered and ready to produce kits! The scale of 1/400 has recently seen a resurgence in the issue of smaller ships, mostly destroyers and torpedo boats, but also in the many submarine kits now found throughout the various internet shops. Large enough to superdetail and yet not so large as to overflow your den/garage/office, perhaps 1/400 scale should be revisited as a reasonable alternative to the much pricier 1/350 resin and injection-molded kits. Again, the quality of these kits is likely not superior to similar resin kits in 1/350 scale, and may not even match the quality of similar injection-molded kits. But the examples of these kits I've seen, with a little research and superdetailing (which is done regardless of the quality of the manufactured kit anyway!) will display beautifully and WON'T drain the pocketbook. What say ye all? Joe Reyna SHIPWRIGHT HOBBIES Kits for Sale at: http://members.home.net/jreyna/ForSale/KitSale.html mailto:jreyna@home.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Masashi Ito Subject: Re: Hobby Stores in Tokyo Hi, Peter. A good shop in Tokyo that I know is Leonald. Its address is 4-1 Kanda-Sakumacho Chiyoda-ku Tokyo and its phone numberis 03-3851-4196. Get off at the Akihabara station of the JR and exit from the Showa-dori exit. A branch of Leonald is also in Yokohama. If you stay in Shibuya, you can go to Yokohama, taking the To-yoko Line. Get off the Sakuragi-cho station. The address of the branch is 6-89 Onoue-cho (possibly ogami-cho; it's sometimes hard to tell, only looking at Kanji) Naka-ku Yokohama. The phone number is 045-641-0146. It will take you about 30-40 minutes from Shibuya to Sakuragi-cho by an express line. If you read Japanese, they have a website at: http://www.leonardo.co.jp/body/page2.html. When I visited both the shops a year ago (I live now in New York), I was very much impressed by their stock. But what I noticed was that the Tokyo shop had more battleship kits and heavy cruisers, and the Yokohama shop had more light cruisers. Both had lots of destroyers. But for Pit-Road kits, the Yokohama shop was better. Well, this was what I felt a year ago, so things may be different now. The prices were pretty good (with about 20 % discounts), by the way. Also, there is a shop in Yokohama run directly by Pit-Road. Though I have never visited it (because I came to know its existence after I came back to New York!), it is worth visiting, I guess. The shop's name is North Port, and its address is 1-22-15 Nakagawa-Chuo Tsuzuki-ku Yokohama and the phone number is 045-910-3546. They have also a website at: http://member.nifty.ne.jp/pitroad/pit3.html (in Japanese). I hope this is of some help. Masashi Ito -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Keith Butterley Subject: CA Reaction Rolie, When are you Maritimers going to learn you are not suppose to put that stuff in your Screech? Keith Butterley Vancouver, where snow is something we only see on tv -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "denis keegan" Subject: Re: Adverse Reaction to CA Glue Rolie, I had a similar reaction but only once and I think it was a combination of things that caused it. I was using an old Lot of CA and the humidity and Temp were quite high. Like an idiot, I did NOT have a fan blowing the fumes away from my face and I think all of these circumstances combined to make me feel VERY sick (Nauseous) and gave me a thumping headache, blurred vision and a dry, raspy throat. NEVER again will I neglect to use the fan! Denis K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "william k code" Subject: Re: ICM Hood Well this thread sure has gotten interesting.. I would really have to think about shelling out close to 200.00 for a Hood.. I purchased a Konig because I'm one of the few who likes WW1 subjects, in fact I'll probably buy another for parts to make a 1/350 scale Derfflinger..Having said this I really would love a Hood to put next to my old Tamya Bismarck...but 200.00? yikes! As some have said I will wait to see how good it is before I make my decision .. regards Bill Code -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Michael Bartel Subject: Production Runs From: "Steven P. Allen" >> Huh? I mean, excuse me? That's only true of limited runs. Consider the Revell kits as excellent counter-examples. . . . If your assertion were true, there would be no re-issues. << Let me put that another way, Steve. I think it might be the other way around for limited runs, because I know I can still sell more Kawasaki LRV trolley models after this first run of 50 is completed. It's an item that will sell later because I am making them in very small batches at a time. I know that I will have a market for more runs in future years. (I also know the market area I am dealing with.) If I was making them 1000 at a time, then my attitude would be different. But, the plastic manufacturers make them in large batches at a time, and don't make more until the warehouse is empty. This may take months or years for that run. Plastic manufacturers do re-issue items and they do still sell over time, but the company's greatest single block of sales is when the model is first released. One other notable exception might be a kit that hasn't been available for years. But, we are talking in terms of brand-new kits. Certainly, a company will want to sell all they can within a reasonable amount of time to recoup whatever they can of their costs for that kit. ICM's Hood will probably do well initially. After about a year, we will know for sure, but I feel that most people who really want one (that are willing to afford it) will rush to get it in that time. That's probably how I should have said it. Hope that helps clears up my point! Mike Bartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Re: converting ship scales to fractions It is simple. Merely find out how many of the given fraction are in a foot and you have the scale. In the example of 1/16" = 1' there are 16 1/16s in an inch and 12 inches in a foot, so multiply 16 by 12 and you have the scale. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER unique wood sculpture and fine scale models www.walruscarpenter.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: Re: ICM Hood discussion In reply to John Snyder's posting. Exactly. Supply and demand works perfectly. My original post was motivated by the noise on this list, proclaiming loudly and long of the huge demand for a given model. That is all fine. I just wanted to inject some reality into this discussion. My guess is that this list may be about 1200 people. While we may like to think that we are the tip of a large iceberg, all evidence suggests otherwise. There is not a huge market of avid ship modelers out there that we somehow represent. And if that supposition is correct, my conclusion is also valid. A prudent manufacturer has to make his marketing decisions based on reality, not noise. Unless our list bought a whole lot of Konig's, ICM is hurting for money on their ship models. I will even bet that somewhere in their corporate strategy meetings, someone said, "Wouldn't it be nice if we could get the serious customers to give us down payments or deposits?" I will further bet that a time or two, David, Caroline, Steve, Rusty, Mike, et al, wished for exactly the same thing. Whether ICM or anybody else screwed up the last kit or not, whether the CEO or anybody else should be fired, whether they are or will be in bankruptcy, they have to find the money for the next kit from the proceeds of the last one or ones. If the money does not come from retained earnings, it has to come from extra investment. ICM needs to deal with financial reality. In a global sense, I suspect that getting investment dollars into Ukraine is very, very difficult. They have to manage their pursestrings exceedingly carefully. ICM or any other manufacturer is not looking to piss off its customers. I suspect that many of these tentative announcements are in fact a form of market research. If they can get enough interest they can project a positive return on a specific investment. If they can't they will have to invest their scarce dollars elsewhere, which appears to be case with ICM, who, my friends tell me, produce new aircraft kits quite regularly. And I repeat, you resin (and photoetch, etc.) manufacturers subsidize our hobby with your extraordinary personal efforts. Your decisions, while as realistic as you can make them, are colored (pun not intended until after I wrote it) by your emotional involvement with this hobby. Thanks again. Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Mark C Krumrey" Subject: Aurora Colors Greetings List: I recently acquired a LEE 1/300 British Aurora Cruiser. There are virtually no decals or paint instructions. It appears to be a decent kit. I don't know how accurate, or inaccurate it is, just it seems like a decent kit. Anyone here know what scheme it may have appeared in during the early days of 1941. Any assistance will be greatly appeciated. Thanks Mark Krumrey New Richmond WI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "JAmes McCormick" Subject: Re: ICM Hood Ok Guys, 1st off, the kit isn't out yet. 2nd, While Ned saw 200 dollars listed as cost, Fine Scale Modeler reported 125. We don't know. I'd be willing to bet ICM doesn't know. Let's just settle down, wait (we'll be doing a lot of that), and see what happens. There's no sense in condeming ICM before the kit is out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: J& D Production hulls Hi SMMLies, A word on J& D Production hulls, Better get one while you can. I've seen and played with some of them. Baltimore and Indi will blow you away. Don't even cry about the price people. These are enough to make Lee Upshaw scrap his entire collection and give up for ever along with the other glass hull makers. They are not for RC but make a great looking display model. Just better hope your modeling skills are good enough to compliment these hulls if you try one. KTB Boy does this sound like a suck up! Not at all, Don did a great job. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Recycling in Germany Hi Werner In reply to your note on recycling. Over here we recycle plastic containers such as 2 liter soda bottles, milk jugs, or for house hold items such as shampoo,...etc. Aluminium and steel cans such as for soda, beer, soups and so forth. Also glass bottles. If you put any of these items in regular trash you pay a fine. The landfills won't except grass trimmings, tree branchs or car tires any more. Car tires and batteries are being recycled as well. You were in charge of youth group well I used to belong as a teenager to church youth group and I have fond memories of going camping in Pennsylvania along the AppalachiaTrail. In the fall, it was beautiful. Multible colored leaves for miles. Back to modeling. This concerns the Iowa class. Since Iowa BB-61, New Jersey BB-62, Missouri BB-63 are being made into museums that leaves Wisconsin BB-64. Is she retained by the navy or she to become a museum. Did any one see the movie "A glimpse into hell" about the Iowa turret explosion well they stated that the turrerts were made from cannabalized parts from older battleships. That means the memorial ships such as North Carolina, Alabama and Masseschuetts. How much was taken out of them. Any one know? Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: NEVENGER@aol.com Subject: ICM Hood Kit I was looking in the April 2001 for Finescale Modeler and on page 53 they show ICM releasing the Hood in March for $129.98 and the Essex in November for $149.98 This seems a lot different from what has been by the rest of us. Of note FSM noted that release dates are not always accurate. I would purchase the Essex at $149.98 but would not go higher. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: If you miss the sub It is obvious to me that you never served in pre World War One Boats. You are describing luxury afloat. Showers? You actually had water!!!!!!? Ah the days when one had to bang the biscuits on the table so that the worms would fall out. Raw potatoes, wonderful! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Hank Lapa" Subject: ICM (Once Again) All, Nice to see a new, lower price quoted! :-) Remember these kits are coming from the Ukraine. That's the area of the world that has seen expensive military equipment being sold to feed homeless troops. Everybody there is always overcharging everybody else trying to catch up with the good old days of a cabbage in every pot. As for the decision to release Konig / Grosser Kurfurst first (at least shipwise), they were probably catering to the "wealthy" Germans, who are closer to "home" than most of us. And there is precedent. Revell Germany has released all kinds of real production kits whose following is largely within their own borders, from Luftwaffe '46 to Emden / Dresden. Still, it seems they haven't been monitoring the FSM surveys of wanted kits. But Hood and Essex certainly hit the nail on the head. Incidentally, I'm surplussing my Hasegawa I-16 typ 24 after looking at the ICM kit of the same subject. And I haven't even opened the Hase box. Lastly, I'd say Arizona is almost a certainty (from someone) one of these days, since I paid big bucks for the resin version some years ago. Regards, Hank -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "T. Stephen Rogers" Subject: ICM Hood From: "Jeff Herne" >> I look at it this way...I may be hanging upside down from a yardarm, but this is my logic... If ICM decides to charge more than $125 for the Hood, lots of people will not buy the kit because: (a: they simply can't afford it, (b: It's just too damn much money and they feel they're being taken (c: they don't need one that badly. Anyone who buys a kit that pricey and doesn't add the PE to it is in the minority of ship modelers anyway, at this day & age, so add another $20 - $50 for a PE set... << It's real simple, I love 1/350 scale. I have Tamiya's Bismarck, I must have the Hood. At less than half the cost of resin it's a shoe-in. Extra photo-etch at $20-$30, no problem. Yes I bought the Konig, I would have preferred the Defflinger, Iron Duke, or Tiger. Bring on Essex and Takao. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: CA Glue adverse reaction To be used only in a highly ventilated area!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: A few facts about ICM ship kits I have met and had long discussions with one of the "Big Wigs" and family of ICM, Mike Lipovic. He told me that the entire first run of the Konig kits sold out in Germany, all 5000. He also told me that the tool for the different mast and anti-torpedo net parts broke, and that's why both kits are the same. If you have noticed all the press releases from ICM, you would have seen a few changes each time one comes out. That was them changing their mind about subjects. Look at the topic of many of their other kits and you will see how provincial their marketing is. Like many companies around the world, they are doing subjects from their country, or related to their country. ICM is growing out of this, and expanding their market. They have done their own market research, and not hired anyone else. The biggest market for 1/350 kits is quite possibly the USA. That is why they are switching from European subjects to an American subject. Some of you reading this may think, about me, "Who is this guy trying to fool". Well, I can tell you after 8 years of selling my resin kits and books world wide, I have sold far more 1/350 kits in the USA. The ratio is about 15 to 1. Since my books are American subjects, until #13, again, I have sold far more in the USA, about 12 to 1. With my 1/700 kits the ratio is about 5 to 1, world wide. As to the cost of injection plastic tooling, The cost are out of this world. I have had very detailed conversations with production managers and executives at Revell/Monogram. They all told me about the same thing. A steel tooling for a plastic kit now days cost approximately $2000.00 per cubic inch. That includes the computer design time, the massive steel plates, cutting equipment, and the actual cutting. Now of course the cost in the former Soviet Union are much cheaper. Lets say one half. That is still a lot of expense. When I hear that a 30 inch long model with 650 parts is going to run $199.99, that does not surprise me. You will of course be able to find this at a discount for approximately $160. A little more information so that some may understand cost. ICM does not sell the kits to you customers. They sell the kits to model distributors, who in turn sell to retail hobby shops or mail order shops, who in turn sell these models to you customers. ICM will sell the kits to the distributors for less than half of the $199 price tag. So if their cost before production even starts, is about $350,000.00 US, then they would have to sell about 5000 kits just to pay for the tooling cost. They of course have the added cost of the instructions, the box, the plastic, the decals, box art, employee over head, their factory, and the injection machines. Add all the above information together. Millions of $$$$$$$$$. Just to produce model kits! We are very lucky! All of these companies are in this because they love it and want to make money at their passion, just like me. Yes, there are some that may price gouge here and there, but most do not. The way I run my own business is very similar to what I described above, but on a much smaller scale. I do know what I am talking about. I have lived it for the last 8 years. I worked as an employee in it for years before that. In businesses I have worked in, managed, and now owned, I have had some people complain about prices, but the vast majority, the always silent majority, realize that if you want something reasonable, you will have it. Affordability is within reason. You only live once. To self squabble for various reasons about something that is only slightly out of your normal price range, is silly. Live a little. For those of you that I hear saying "I have to ask my wife", we who dont, already know the answer. Steve Wiper, waiting for a Hood kit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Cruisers in Camera Hi SMMLers, I recently bought a book called "Cruisers in Camera" by Roger Hayward, and wanted to recommend it to anyone who likes very interesting photographs of Royal Navy cruisers. As just one example, there is a photograph of the port side of HMAS Hobart with a two-color camouflage pattern. I found this book at Motor Books, and I know Maritime Books carries it; I wasn't able to find it on the WE site, but they might carry it as well. Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: TATagg@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Iowa Thread... Below is a link to a newspaper story dealing with local efforts to bring the USS Iowa to San Francisco... Having worked for the City for almost 30 years and being quite familiar with the local politics & government, the Iowa stands a better chance of winding up in Elko, Nevada.....than anywhere along the San Francisco waterfront... http://www.examiner.com/news/default.jsp?story=w.iowa1.0329 Thom Taggart San Francisco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shane Subject: APMA now has PayPal Hi all, APMA (Australian Plastic Modeller's Assoc) now is PayPal enabled. So if you've been wondering how to join one of Australia's best modelling clubs & get access to one of the best general modelling magazines around (hey I'm biased - so shoot me ;-) ), we've just made it easier. Plus, those who live overseas can take advantage of the rather anaemic Aussie dollar. Just click on the link below & check the site out. Don't forget the new members deal - for any new members who sign up, they get a free backissue of their choice provided it's not OOP. Check out backissues of IM for Bob Pearson's reviews of the APMA magazine. Regards, Shane Jenkins APMA VP http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm Having FUN making models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: DRPREUL@aol.com Subject: USS TEXAS Print From J & D Productions The new Tom Freeman print is on the market, "THE PACIFIC LONESTAR" USS Texas (BB-35) as seem on the cover of Classic Warship's book #4 USS TEXAS. You can go to our website: www.jdproduct.com to see the print and you can place your order through us. The price is $150.00 plus $15.00 shipping. You can see all of Tom Freeman's prints on our website. Regards Don & Jeanne J & D Productions, LLC Annapolis, MD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: APA crewmembers If me any list members served aboard an APA and are willing to share their memories of that experience with me as background for a book I am working on, please contact me off list. khgoldman@cnmnetwork.com Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER unique wood sculpture and fine scale models www.walruscarpenter.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: British Battleships 1919-1939 by Burt Hi SMML, In case anyone might be interested, I have put a very good copy of "British Battleships 1919-1939" by R.A. Burt up for auction on eBay. The auction ends on Sunday, and you can find it by using the search terms "burt" and "battleships." Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume