Subject: SMML VOL 1203 Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 15:08:00 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USS EISENHOWER 2: Greenville 3: Re: Lindberg 4: USS Charles Lindbergh 5: Re: Ray D. Bean 6: Re: GREENVILLE and apologies.... 7: Italian Escorts 8: Fletchers in MS21 9: Re: Lindberg 10: Re: USS Harry F.Bauer DM-26 11: Re: DKM Destroyers 12: Hobby shop in Maryland 13: HMCS ATHABASKAN Documentary 14: Viking Subs 15: Tamiya 400 Scale 16: Paramount and UPC models 17: Re: Greenville Mystery -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: SMML Con 2001 USS Hornet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 1:700 Fantasque Photos now on IHP website -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: USS EISENHOWER >> Ummm, wouldn't the USS Eisenhower be named after the President rather than the general ;-þ << UMMMMMMMM Shane? That would be 2 faces of the same politician. Most come with more than that. Snicker! Snicker! Chortle! Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister http://www.egroups.com/group/WoodenWalls Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Greenville Hi Ray You are stepping out of line and need to re-examine your attitudes to things very carefully. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Lindberg >> No way is the Navy going to name a carrier after a Army flier. << >> I stayed away from this before, but here goes; now should they name one after a Nazi sympathizer!! << The correct term, for the 30s, was appeaser. This was a group of people, which included many prominent politicians and scholars, who believed that Hitler would be happy with the Rhine, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, etc. and that he posed no real threat to peace. We have the same attitudes now, just the names, faces, terms and target countries are different. Lindberg wasn't really a sympathizer, he did not agree politically with what Hitler had in mind, but thought we had no business with the "internal affairs" of Germany even to the point of ignoring international aggression. JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Joel Labow Subject: USS Charles Lindbergh >> I do think this country should name the next Carrier After Charles Lindbergh and put the USS Reagan into retirement << And in the wardroom they could showcase the medal he received from Adolf Hitler. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Ray D. Bean >> Well, the Japanese still have not acknowledged they started the Pacific War, and maybe they should collectively apologize to the surviving families of the ARIZONA, OKLAHOMA, WEEVEE, UTAH, NEVADA,CALIFORNIA, and all other shipmates families lost in action Dec. 7th,1941......60 years ago. << Ah,I understand now,so the seven young Japanese which drowned are paying the price for being from the same nation which started Pearl Harbour??? The Germans still did not apologised for killing my uncle during the street execution in Warsaw but if I accidentally bump into a German in London I do not say "Serves you right you #&%£@$!!!" but apologise politely. Every nation has something to apologise about but lets keep things in prospective and lets not visist on children sins of their fathers !!!!! Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "John Rule" Subject: Re: GREENVILLE and apologies.... >> I don't know if I am stepping out of line here, but I wish to comment on the whining, snivelling, complaining Japanese insisting, screaming for a public apology from the ship's Captain et al about the accident offshore Pearl Harbor awhile ago. Well, the Japanese still have not acknowledged they started the Pacific War, and maybe they should collectively apologise to the surviving families of the ARIZONA, OKLAHOMA, WEEVEE, UTAH, NEVADA, CALIFORNIA, and all other shipmates families lost in action Dec. 7th, 1941......60 years ago. << Sorry to disagree with a fellow Canuck resident here, Ray, but I think there is a major difference. The USS Greenville was just hot-dogging with a bunch of civilians they were trying to impress. The Japanese were starting a war with a pre-emptive strike against a foe they couldn't hope to beat without one. One is a premeditated act of war which is historically quite acceptable and tactically advantageous. The other is just a cock up. It is normal to apologise in most civilized societies to apologise for cock ups. It is not normal to apologise for wars. Austria didn't for WWI, Germany didn't for WWII, Israel hasn't for any of her wars, the US hasn't for Viet Nam nor the Russians for Afghanistan, the British for the Boer War or anyone else historically. The apology for something like a war would be meaningless, as they are typically deliberate acts. On this note I'll shut up and go for a vacation. All the best to the attendees at the California SMMLLiecon. If it's half as good as the first one you'll have a ball. Sorry I can't be there. All the best, John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Italian Escorts Hi All Does anyone know if the Italian WW2 escort X137 was named and if so what was it called? Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Rod Dauteuil" Subject: Fletchers in MS21 I'm starting to work on my Tamiya 1/350 Fletcher and am trying to find out if any of these early Fletchers ever carried the Measure 21 Navy Blue System camouflage? There are plenty of later, square bridge Fletchers that had it, but I can't seem to find any references to the round bridge types. Thanks, Rod. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Lindberg >> How soon we forget that Ronnie Reagan zap, ordered the gassing of UC Berkeley students when he was Governor of California << I think that there is a slight difference between the use of tear gas to control an out of control mob - or did the news somehow fail to report that they actually used cyklon B???, and consorting with and issuing admiring statements about Hitler and Goring and that crew. >> And did the Honorable Charles Lindbergh do anything that hateful And yes I do the all the history about this army Pilot Who by the way did Help out during WW II in the P-38 lighting << Yes, he eventually did service, though in the scheme of things, I wonder whether it was useful or merely propagandizing, but limited to the pacific theatre. The man seemed to limit his aggressive tendencies to persons "unlike himself" Tell me that he participated in bombing raids over Germany or that he later recanted his earlier admiration for the Nazis and I may change my mind. So, with all due respects, may the USS Reagan proudly sail, and I'll be content to leave Mr. Lindbergh to the history pile. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) To: shipmodels@tac.com.au Subject: Re: USS Harry F.Bauer DM-26 Hi Guys Does any one know of a kit of the USS Harry F.Bauer DM-26, a converted Sumner class DD. Or any kits in resin or plastic.? Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: royrichey@att.net Subject: Re: DKM Destroyers Jim, I looked through what I have at home and here is what I found. Found the Lody in France, 1940: light gray hull and superstructure, dark gray (very) decks and aft gun mounts (could not see fwd mt.). There appeared to be a ramdom broken white pattern on her main deck. Two other ships with her were the same light/dark gray pattern, gun mounts were light gray, no white on main deck. I found the Z23 in Norway, 1942. She was light gray hull with dark gray decks. Gun mounts were light gray. All the photos of different ships I saw in my refs were the light/dark gray pattern of the Z23. I did not see any variation in pattern until late 1942/early 1943, when camo starts appearing. My references are several books on the Kreigsmarine in WWII and two books on German destroyers. Hope this helps. Roy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Hobby shop in Maryland Ok, who can help me on this one? A friend toured the US East coast last summer and stopped at a hobby shop on rte 13, but can't remember exactly where. Here is his quote: It was South of Dover Maryland on route 13. I think. (might have just been into Virginia.) He bought some center link chain at this store and I would like to find it myself, as I'm sure some of you other large scale modelers would as well. Anybody in the area know this stores name? Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Darren Scannell Subject: HMCS ATHABASKAN Documentary The History Channel, in Canada, is airing the 'UNLUCKY LADY' about the WWII sinking of the HMCS ATHABASKAN, this Wed. at 10:00pm for any who would like to tune in. Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Viking Subs Yes Rusty, I know your feelings about Viking, and you're probably not going to speak to me at Chicago because of the April fools thing, but I thought I'd post for the sub nuts ( and I do mean nuts, no offense) anyway. Northstar hobbies in Toronto has 2 Viking sub kits in stock that I thought were interesting and that somebody might want. Both in 1/350, the NR-1 and a concept future attack sub. Send them a note if you're interested at: http://www.northstarhobbies.com/ and yes I do know the owner, but have no interest in the store, other than to get him to stop trying to flog them off on me just because they go in water. Regards, Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Fred Liedel" Subject: Tamiya 400 Scale With all the talk about the old Tamiya 400 scale cruisers going on, I would just like to let everyone know that a few years [three or four] ago, I wrote to Tamiya regarding these kits to see if there was any chance of them being re-issued. The reply was as follows [still have the letter by god, we modellers keep junk] " With regards to your inquiry about our ships we do not have any intention of re-issuing these kits as they do not come up to our standard and while we still have the moulds we also do not plan to sell to anyone." I think that's a polite way of saying if you don't have them you never will. But also if I may say I for one still live in hope as I have all the Heller ships [in most cases two or three of each but only one of their Hood] plus heaps of other 400 scale ones. But a Myoko would look so cool with my Mutsu that I finished a few years ago Regards Fred Liedel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Melea/Mike Maynard" Subject: Paramount and UPC models Hello all stations: I noted that a couple of the group mentioned that they had some dealings with ship models produced by the Paramount and UPC companies. In 1970, while stationed in Boston,I purchased a model of the YAMATO from a shop called Hobby Town. The box the kit came in was about 4 feet long and the manufacturer of this huge(for 1970) model was Paramount models of Pawtucket, Rhode Island. Since Pawtucket was my hometown I paid a visit to the street address from the directions but the company was no longer in business at the time. I asked around but few modelers remember the company, let alone this large plastic model. My question to any of you model buffs out there: does anyone remember this particular kit or this company? I'm sure the kit was manufactured overseas but I'm not sure of how an import company in my little part of the world got involved in modeling. Pawtucket as some of you may know is the home of Hasbro, maker(correction, used to be made here)of the popular GI JOE action figure. There is also a greeting card company called Paramount Cards located here, I often thought that this operation was somehow connected to the import of the YAMATO. By the way, I still have the YAMATO, it's as big as the Nichimo version but not as well detailed, a curious production model to be sure. The YAMATO is currently in "CHARLIE STATUS" in my attic, awaiting the call for "Re-activation" to active service, it hasn't seen water in 20 years. So come on you YAMATO experts, let's hear from you! Regards Mike M. retired as before enroute to the workshop -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Jeremiah C." Subject: Re: Greenville Mystery The Japanese trawler was 100% in the right, the sub, 100% wrong. The Captain can delegate authority but never responsibility. He deserves a General Court Martial of which he will have no proper defense. The man screwed up and should pay the consequences. Doesn't make him a bad man, he was negligent even for only a short time. There is not much room for complacency in his business, and for those that follow, they should not ever make that mistake again. A sub surfacing has no right away over any other vessel, must yield to any other vessel. This was his navigation error. Semper, jeremiah... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: dlfowler@apple.com Subject: SMML Con 2001 USS Hornet Hello All, Just a reminder that the SMML Con 2001 USS Hornet is just two weeks away. Our biggest problem at this point is not that there isn't enough to fill the weekend but too much! The Hornet is having a living history demonstration, the Jeremiah O'Brien is firing up the engine, there is an IPMS contest aboard the ship, and the USS Iowa is arriving. Sounds pretty busy to me! I have been in contact with the Jeremiah O'Brien staff and they have told me that when the USS Iowa arrives they will steam out to meet it. They will be carrying passengers and have space available for SMML attendees. The price is quite steep at US$100 per person but it is likely to be the last time a battleship ever sails through the Golden Gate. I will keep you posted on the day that the ship arrives. The current schedule for the conference is: Friday, April 20 10AM meet at the Hornet and travel to Fisherman's Wharf 11AM to 4PM Visit USS Pampinito, SS Jeremiah O'Brien, San Francisco National Maritime Museum (Hyde Street Pier), San Francisco Maritime Museum. 4PM to 6PM tour of San Francisco 7PM Dinner in San Francisco Saturday: 9AM Meet at the USS Hornet 10AM - 12PM seminars 12PM - 1PM lunch 1PM - 5PM seminars 6PM Dinner in Alemeda Sunday 9AM to 5PM IPMS Show and Contest Tours of the USS Hornet will be available Monday If anyone is still around and interested, a boat trip around the reserve fleet at Suisin Bay will be available. The size of the boat will depend on the number of people interested. There is a possibility of a visit to the USCGC Glacier but this has not been confirmed. Please be aware that due to the uncertain time and date of the Iowa's arrival, the schedule may change to accommodate the ship. I am sure that most would agree with me that they would not want to miss this event. There will also be several door prizes, free samples, and other "goodies" being given away. Some of these are likely to equal or greatly exceed the total cost of the conference! There are a total of six presentations on Saturday and a complete list of speakers and subjects will appear in Tomorrow's SMML. There is still time to register and we will be taking registrations at the door, If you would like to attend, please contact Sami Arim as soon as possible so that we may have an accurate count for the events. Best regards, Duane Fowler dlfowler@uscg.net Sami Arim sami@Akol-Yoshii.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) FROM: IMPERIAL HOBBY PRODUCTIONS SUBJECT: 1:700 Fantasque Photos now on IHP website Photos of our new 1:700 metal Fantasque kit are now on the IHP website. Check out: http://ihphobby.tripod.com/lefantasque to see the unpainted model built from the box. Kits will be available in about two weeks, when the hulls arrive. And, for those of you looking ahead, the Emile Bertin may be available sooner than originally expected. Mike Bartel IHP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume