Subject: SMML VOL 1206 Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:12:30 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Lindberg LCI 2: "Second Rate European Power" 3: Re: AJAX and SYDNEY 4: Collisions at Sea 5: Re: Hull Plates 6: hull plates 7: Mission Chisum Trail 8: Skytrex Kits 9: Hull plate drawings 10: Re: Fletchers in MS21 11: BP T-2 Colours 12: USS Indiana MS32/16b clarification 13: Mikasa 14: LCI 15: Skytrex 1:700 Kits 16: Viking models 17: Re: Hull Plates 18: German Cruisers 19: KM Destroyers-Jim 20: card models 21: Re: Valve Wheels -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: SMML Con USS Hornet 2001 speakers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Chinese Boycott 2: USS Bluefish info -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Bill & Kaja Michaels" Subject: Lindberg LCI Lindberg used to make an LCI(L). I can remember building several of them as a kid. They were sometimes sold with the electric motor kits (which I could never get to work!). I don't remember if it was the early square pilothouse or the later round pilothouse version. Hulls 1-350 were the square pilothouse, and hulls 351 on were the round style. It definitely had the two troop ramps, as opposed to the single centerline ramp. (The ramp design was changed to the single centerline ramp in June 1944. My reference shows hull number 354 with the 2 ramps, and hull number 402 with the new style.) I've seen the kit on e-bay from time to time. I recall that it was about 12-14 inches in length. That would put it somewhere in the 1/130 to 1/160 scale range. (I remember that it was too small to carry my plastic army men.) HTH Bill Check out my US Coast Guard subjects model list at: http://www.tiac.net/users/billkaja/kitlist.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Malcolm N. Waite" Subject: "Second Rate European Power" Hi We might be a "Second Rate European Power" but we appear to have remembered how to play cricket so who cares! You never know we might show one bunch of "Ex Colonials" how its done this summer. Regards Malcolm Waite Malcolm, In your dreams mate, in your dreams ;-> Shane - who has no idea where the sub-continent is!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "JOHN CURRIE" Subject: Re: AJAX and SYDNEY The SKYTREX AJAX is in the fit as of the time of the Battle of the River Plate, it is quite a good model and with a little bit of work on the masts will fill a gap that has been in 1/700 for far too long, it is also an easy task bringing her up to a 1941 configuration. The two funnel SYDNEY can be viewed on the SKYTREX web page at the following address, http://www.skytrex.com/acatalog/md5.jpg J W Currie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Summers David Col 56 MDG/SGPMI Subject: Collisions at Sea Given the vast ocean reaches and the sky above, there must be some amazing magnetism that draws man-made objects into disastrous contact. As evidence, I offer the following sea yarn: Our sailboat was in the deep Atlantic, far out of sight of land or any other ship. --Becalmed. What do you do when your sailboat is becalmed? We threw out the ladders and went swimming! I was paddling around in 4-6 foot swells (boat & mast invisible between swells) perhaps 50 feet out from our boat when a submarine appeared, running with just it's sail out of the water--no one outside--headed at high speed directly toward our sailboat. I can still see it vividly: gray-green leopard camouflage scheme on sail and periscopes. The submarine's sail slipped suddenly and silently under the water just a few feet before reaching our boat. The whole event took perhaps 15 or 20 seconds--no time to call out or take any kind of action. Only afterwards did I realize how narrowly I missed a very very long swim home!!! I'm eternally grateful that somebody was awake and alert on that submarine--I don't imagine a becalmed fiberglass sailboat puts out much of an image on radar or sonar. I can imagine a few members of that crew had a laundry problem at the end of their shift! I bet we added a bit of excitement to their day! Bottom line: Thank God there are some really excellent seamen in the Navy! David Summers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: Re: Hull Plates >> ...I'm looking for plans, drawings, any source that would show the lines of the hull plates as they were welded to a ship. ...And yes, I know that even in 1/350th scale, which these models will be, these lines wouldn't be visible in "the real world". I'm just trying to add some "texture" to an otherwise bland surface... << One way to depict hull plating is with paint. This method is a good compromise between plain single color hulls and exaggerated theatrical highlights which can result from using contrasting colors. Just paint the hull as usual. Then mask off the plate patern with thin strips of tape. Paint again with the same color, two or more coats. When the tape is removed, you have a nice plate pattern in the same color as the rest of the hull. The effect is subtle yet noticeable up close; farther away it disappears. I've never tried this with 1/350, but it works well in 1/700. I did this on my 1/700 Minekaze which you can see at: http://internetmodeler.com/2001/february/ships/minekaze.htm As for the specific patterns for the plates, I use photographs of the ship (or others in the class) for reference. At least in the case of the Japanese Minekaze class destroyers built in the 1920s, the patterns of sisters are all the same. Tim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Robert J. Morris" Subject: hull plates Devin; What you are looking for is the Shell Expansion or Hull Plating drawings.The drawing looks wierd but will show the lines of the strakes and the laps and vertical butts. The keel, stem ,and stern are drawn to scale. The frames are shown as straight lines equal to the girth of the frame. Imagine a giant flattened out half of the hull. The individual plates won't be a true shape but will be when laid out on the model. Can't help with your projects, (do have for CV-10). The Cartographic and Architectural section of National Archives in College Park md. may be able to help. Robert Morris North Benton ,Ohio USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Mission Chisum Trail Hi CW Have you tried BP themselves? They will have an archive section Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Skytrex Kits The latest issue of "Plastic Ship Modeler" (#24) includes a detailed four-page article on the new metal 1/700 Skytrex/Meridian ships, written by Chris Drage. There are photos of VICTORY, SANTISIMA TRINIDAD, NORFOLK, SUFFOLK, CUMBERLAND, LONDON, CHARYBIDIS, and NORFOLK. This review is well worth checking out. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Hull plate drawings Devin, For USN ships the only place to find hull plate drawings is on the bizillion rolls of micro film found at the Nation Archives in Collage Park, MD - the DC area. You will have to take the time to sit down and physically go thru a lot of images, about 2400 per roll. Last time I did that was on the USS Texas BB-35 and there were about 25 rolls of micro film on her. Another way is to get a 1/192 copy drawing of the ships profile and draw up your own, using, you guessed it, my books with their fabulous photos in them. I have a decent amount of photos on two out of three of the subjects you have listed. Check them out at my web site @ www.classicwarships.com Happy modeling, Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Fletchers in MS21 Hi Guys Concerning the application of Measure 21 to the Fletcher class. It should be noted that in June 1942 the Navy Dept ordered all Pacific Fleet destroyers to be painted Measure 21 and all Atlantic Fleet destroyers to be painted in measure 22. This was the standard rule until the Spring of 1944 when the Measure 31,32 and 33 schemes were created. My source is USN Camouflage 2:Fleet Carriers of the WW2 era by the Floating Drydock Co. copyright 1976. This is in chapter 14 the supplement. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "arthur buckland" Subject: BP T-2 Colours cwjerden@flash.net wrote: >> And on the subject of T-2 Tankers... I will be doing mine as "Mission Chisum Trail" sold to service with British Patrolium post war. We have "Chisum trail days" in Fort Worth, Texas each year, hence the choice. Anyone have an Ideal how BP would have painted this ship while in her service? I have not been able to find a thing on her colors. If I can't find out anything soon I'll just have to SWAG it << I will do a trace if the BP name (SS British .....?) is known. Might have been still in the Anglo Iranian Oil Co. colours.. Otherwise a generic (and possibly inaccurate) scheme can be supplied for the T-2's of that period. What year do you want to depict her in? Art ex 2/0 BPTankerCo. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Art Pagsuyoin" Subject: USS Indiana MS32/16b clarification I've been trying to get this straight before I start painting my 1/144 BB58...can anyone tell me the Indiana's dazzle colors MS3216d- horizontal surfaces and vertical surfaces? Was sea blue/navy blue used at all? thanks art -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Roger/Sharon Torgeson" Subject: Mikasa On Mondays posting I mentioned a 1/300 scale Mikasa I purchased 25 years ago. Since then Andy Jones, one of our members, has provided a lead for ordering a reworked kit of the Mikasa. The hull is now resin but the rest appears to be brass plated metal parts. Be warned you may have to take out a second mortgage on the house to pay for it. Go to kitlink.com look for the manufacture Konishi. When you click on it, it will show a parts layout for the kit and the $549.00 US price. Roger -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Tom Eisenhour" Subject: LCI Jon Frohock wondered: >> Has anyone ever made a kit of an LCI? Can't seem to locate one on Rajendra's list. << Dave Judy and Al Ross already answered your basic question. My question to you is: which class of LCI? I'm assuming that you're just talking about the basic LCI(L) here not LCI(G), (M), etc. There were three main variants of LCIs: the "square conn", hull numbers 1-350; the "round conn", hull numbers 351-640, and the ultimate version with bow doors (like an LST and LSM), hull numbers from 641 into the thousands. I believe the resin kit is a square conn version. The Lindberg kit depicts the round conn version, but with a little scratchbuilding, it can be backdated to the square conn configuration. Contact me directly if you're interested in pursuing this option. Regards, Tom Eisenhour -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) FROM: Mike Bartel (mkwb@excite.com) SUBJECT: Skytrex 1:700 Kits Has anyone purchased any of the Skytrex 1:700 kits? Aside from the prices, can you comment on their detail, engineering and quality? The photos on their website show some nice looking models, but what are they like in the flesh, so to speak? Mike Bartel Hi Mike, Check out the SMML site for some Skytrex reviews. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Darren Scannell" Subject: Viking models Hi Tom, I didn't get this in the last issue in time, so a couple of people beat me, but here we go, I respect your decision and agree with you to a certain degree. The way I look at it is Viking is out of business. We won, so to speak. Banning their kits serves no real purpose anymore as they have already been paid for by the suppliers and the only people you are hurting now are the Hobby shop owners that might not be aware of the earlier problems, who have invested in this product and can't return them as there is nowhere to return them to. Personally, I was never interested in any Viking products anyway, so there was never any conflict on my part. However, it's the Hobby shops that need our support, as has been said over and over again on this least and I think most people would agree to this. Like any ban or protest, you have to stop and think about who you are hurting and accept victory when it happens. Of course if I'm mistaken and the people who ran Viking are still going to profit from sales, then I apologize and bow out of the argument. Regards, Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Jeremiah C." Subject: Re: Hull Plates Regarding hull plates. Real ships, that stayed out to sea, would start to get rust runs, some easily accessible ones would be chipped and dabbed with red lead. After a while they would start to look like they had measles. This treatment would break up solid colors. Semper, jeremiah... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: royrichey@att.net Subject: German Cruisers For you Kreigsmarine and cruiser fans: Just got 'Heavy Cruisers of the Admiral Hipper Class', Koop and Schmolke from Naval Institute Press. Great detail shots of Hipper, Blucher, and the Prinz. Even has a few decent shots of the incomplete Seyditz. Includes detail drawings and camo schemes. Looks like the best of the Koop/Schmolke books. Roy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: royrichey@att.net Subject: KM Destroyers-Jim I'll post the list of my destroyer references tomorrow, need time to gather them back up. Roy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: nd.ward@virgin.net Subject: card models Like all modelling, card models depend on the amount of effort you are willing to put into them. Don't expect miracles, it's not a matter of 'shake the box' and presto! you have an acceptable model. It's a different mindset. Having said that the range of models is so wide that it must tempt even the most focussed of modellers. My interest is pre-world war I, and given the limited amount of cash I am willing to expend, on what after all is a hobby, card modelling is the only method of continuing my enjoyment. For the record the JSC model of the MIKASA is quite simple, but requires a degree of concentration that is different to plastic or resin modelling. I don't say that it is better,just different. If anyone wants to know more about card modelling, contact me offline. Dave Ward -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: wem Subject: Re: Valve Wheels Get thee hence to the nearest hobby shop that stocks model railroad detail parts (or get thee a Walthers catalogue) and look for brake wheels in various scales (HO, TT, Z) and I'll bet thou shalt find something appropriate. John Snyder The Token Yank White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: dlfowler@apple.com Subject: SMML Con USS Hornet 2001 speakers Hello Everyone, As promised, here is the list of speakers for the SMML Con USS Hornet 2001: Kurt Greiner: RC modeling Paul Jacobs & john Youngerman: 1/1250 scale modeling Bert McDowell: Detailing the Essex class CV Gary Kingzett: USS Oregon Ed Van Der Porten: To be announced. Sami Arim: Modeling Water Duane Fowler: Signal Flags Please note that this is not necessarily the order of presentation and that the last presentation will only be made if time allows. Also, the USS Iowa is currently off the coast of Mexico and looks on schedule for arrival some time that weekend. I have film in the camera... Best regards and hope to see you there! Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Chinese Boycott Naval Base Hobbies Has suspended the selling of Zhengdefu & Trumpeter kits and I have stated this on our website. Certainly until the "HOSTAGES" are released I urge everyone to contact there Hobby Store Dealers and "Boycott" ALL Chinese products. This should be of grave concern to all of us who dwell on Military History. Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com (Bring the Hostages Home Boycott Chinese Products) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: USS Bluefish info Here is what you need to know. http://www.modelshipbuilding.com/rcbluefish.htm Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com (Bring the Hostages Home Boycott Chinese Products) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume