Subject: SMML VOL 1207 Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 23:48:53 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Shops in MD and VA 2: R. E. Lee Steamboat Kit 3: Idzumi protected cruiser 4: Collisions 5: Re: Chinese Boycott 6: EP-3 Orions 7: Fletcher PE 8: Get Thee Hence ... ? 9: BP T-2 colors 10: Re: Malcolm and Cricket? 11: Chinese boycott - say What ?! 12: Re: Viking products 13: USS Brainbridge 14: Re: Hull plates 15: Re: Viking Products 16: Skytrex and Boycott 17: Royal Navy's Type 42 Question 18: 1:48 scratch-built WW1 110 Ft. Submarine Chaser 19: Re: Card modelling 20: Re: Chinese Boycott 21: Modern Colors 22: Chinese Boykott 23: Regia Marina production schedule, 2001 - 2002 24: Cock Up -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Re: SMML Con USS Hornet 2001 speakers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Maze Subject: Shops in MD and VA SMMLies, Anyone know any good shops along the Hagerstown-Winchester-Fredericksburg to Richmond route? I will be "retrieving" my mother from my sister's place in Richmond after Easter, and she always rewards me for chauffeur services! For that matter, any good "nautical" sites along the way? JohnM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Maze Subject: R. E. Lee Steamboat Kit SMML, I just purchased an Ideal Robert E. Lee Steamboat (sidepaddler) kit (presumably, the same kit as Pyro, Revell, etc.). It did not come with an instruction sheet. Would someone be willing to scan or photocopy me a copy of one? Also, if there is a more appropriate list for me to post this question to, guidance in that direction would be appreciated. Thanx! JohnM Hi John, SMML is an appropiate forum for this question. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Roberto Paredes Subject: Idzumi protected cruiser Hi guys, I'm looking info and pictures about the Idzumi protected cruiser. Japan bought this ship to Chile in 1894. In the chilean navy, it was called 'Esmeralda'. Maybe, somebody from Japan could help me. It's hard to me surf in japanese sites. Regards, Roberto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Mike C" Subject: Collisions David Summers' sailboat story reminded me of a similar event which happened early in the last century (it feels weird to think of the 1900's that way). I read this in the Auto Club (AAA) magazine several years ago. The first two cars in one of the western states (I think it was Idaho, but it doesn't really matter) met at a crossroads and collided. Granted, this was before road signs, but they were the ONLY two cars in the whole state! When it comes to collisions, I guess lapses in good judgement can happen anywhere and under any conditions. Mike Czibovic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Chinese Boycott >> Naval Base Hobbies Has suspended the selling of Zhengdefu & Trumpeter kits and I have stated this on our website. Certainly until the "HOSTAGES" are released I urge everyone to contact there Hobby Store Dealers and "Boycott" ALL Chinese products. This should be of grave concern to all of us who dwell on Military History. << Fow what it is worth, this will then have to include AMT and Revell/Monogram. Most, if not all of their model kits are molded in China. Mike Settle I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: EP-3 Orions Hi Guys We've all heard about the Navy EP-3 Plane that is in China right now. My question is when did the Navy convert P-3 Orions to this configuration . Until the incident I never heard of it before. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Fred Schwarz" Subject: Fletcher PE What is the best 1/700 scale photoetch set for the Tamiya 1/700 scale Fletcher Destroyer? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Ed Grune" Subject: Get Thee Hence ... ? Gosh, John's been over in Blighty for less than 6 months and he's already gone native on us! (Do they even make Z-scale etched accessories?) Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: JOHNEME@aol.com Subject: BP T-2 colors According to Talbot-Booth 1963 edition (too late for your needs?) BP tankers had grey hulls, red boot topping, and white masts, kingposts, and derricks. One feature of the early Talbot-Booth books was a color guide to the fleets of the various companies worldwide. An earlier edition might have the exact data you need. Hope this is some help. John Emery -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: mumfordlibrarian@netscape.net Subject: Re: Malcolm and Cricket? Could it be that cricket survives because no one else wants to under stand the rules of the game (which I suspect Limeys change at their whim) so no one including their wives knows why they are running around, for day on end, wearing flannels in the summer? There isn’t even any blood and gore! Not an American’s game. Paul T. Weaver -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Gernot Hassenpflug Subject: Chinese boycott - say What ?! I hope that this does not develop into a 'thread', but seeing as 'model boycotts' (gosh!) have been suggested, let me add my take. My belief is that first of all, as modelers, we are benefitted in the long run by a greater number of manufacturers in different countires. If we buy chinese (or any manufacturer's) models, we hopefully encourage them to produce better kits, and this will expand a range of modeling subjects that has been woefully under-represented up until the present. Conversely, 'boycotting' (let alone on a voluntary basis here) will not make those companies produce better kits for the US or any other market. I suggest a constructive approach to the current diplomatic row. I do not feel there is any need ever to act in retaliation by whipping up anti-chinese (or whatever) sentiment over a momentary glitch in relations. Let the politicians deal with problem. If they decide to impose sanctions/boycotts or whatever from either side, we will all have more than enough problems without starting any on our own. Back to modeling! Regards, Gernot Hassenpflug (Kyoto, Japan) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Viking products If someone asks me, either in person, over the phone or on the Internet whether or not they should purchase a Viking USS Texas, I will advise them not to. And I will explain the challenges I encountered building mine. Then, if they decide they want to face the same (or more) challenges, it will be because they bought the kit knowing it has problems they will need to correct. That means hobby shops will take a hit, because most will have to reduce the price to move it off the shelves. That's unfortunate, but Viking hurt a lot of people. Another ramification is that hobby shops that took a chance on a cotage industry will be doubly cautious the next time someone asks the shop to carry something like a resin battleship. On the other hand, that helps Pacific Front, Kitlink and others who cater to us. Always a silver lining. Marc (just finishing a couple of 1/700 Gato-class subs with Toms PE) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: USS Brainbridge I'm looking for an unbuilt copy of the 1:350 USS Bainbridge (circa 1900) made by Gulfstream. If you know of either a commercial or private source I would appreciate hearing from you. I have nothing to trade but I am willing to pay the book price, S&H and a reasonable premium to the owner. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: Hull plates Hi SMMLies, I have plated a hull in 1:350. it was pretty easy to do even in this small scale. I used the tape and paint method which looks great. My first plating job was the USS Alaska CB 1 that can be seen on the Steelnavy.com. However the plating is very difficult to see on these photos. You will find once you do a plating job that you are happy with you can't go back to plain hulls. They just look bare without the plates. I didn't have a plating drawing for Alaska so I used what I have on the Salem plus the many photos I took of Salem in drydock. I also used the photos of Alaska while at the New York shipbuilding yard. I found that the Alaska and Salem are plated very much alike. These cruisers were built not too many years apart so they had basically allot of the same hull design if you over look the big difference in size. But as said by Steve Wiper, one must go to the Archives and dig through the many rolls of microfilm to find plating drawings if you want an exact copy of the plates. Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Viking Products >> I respect your decision and agree with you to a certain degree. The way I look at it is Viking is out of business. We won, so to speak. Banning their kits serves no real purpose anymore as they have already been paid for by the suppliers and the only people you are hurting now are the Hobby shop owners that might not be aware of the earlier problems, who have invested in this product and can't return them as there is nowhere to return them to << Sometimes it's not that simple. Viking also had a reputation for poorly done pieces and missing pieces in their kits. If I purchase a Viking Product now and find out there is a problem, what do I do? I'm not talking about banning the sale of their products, and am a very large (read $$$) supporter of my local hobby store. In my estimation, there are no winners. If you do want to do something for your favorite hobby shop, patronise them regularly and buy kits from them. If you want to buy those Viking leftovers, caveat emptor! Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) FROM: Mike Bartel SUBEJCT: Skytrex and Boycott Thanks to everyone who responded to my Skytrex inquiry, but I was aware of the PSM and SMML reviews. I really wanted to hear from anyone who has actually handled the kits, or built them. I don't like the sound of this boycott idea. Aside from the fact that, realistically, a few plastic ship kits won't swing the balance either way, it is scary to see this degenerating already. I want to see the crewmembers come home safe and soon just as much as anyone. But, let the diplomats do their jobs. No war has been declared, the 24 crewmembers are apparently being treated well, the two sides are TALKING, not fighting, and guess what folks? We got caught spying. They have a right to be angry. And, I think that Dubya should get on Texas One and fly out there to negotiate in person. That would be a tremendous gesture of goodwill. Where was the boycott call when these kits were first imported and we all knew the circumstances of Chinese labour and copyright laws? Or are we just getting the mindset ready for the next war? What motive the Chinese had for attacking the spyplane isn't known. For all we know, there is something the US government isn't telling us, which wouldn't surprise me. But, the Chinese could have just shot down that plane and killed the crew. Why didn't they? Who knows? But, spying is natural these days, and will continue long after this situation is resolved. Now is not the time for negative emotion and xenophobia to be rearing their ugly heads just because we got caught. Sounds like these kinds of folks want a war. Anyone who knows military history also should know that this kind of inocuous incident can lead to much worse if cool heads do not prevail. I for one have the courage to keep my sense and let the diplomats keep talking until they reach a solution that will save face for both sides. You only hurt yourself out of spite, says the Billy Joel song, and he's right. France won't extradite Ira Einhorn, a convicted murderer, back to the USA for sentencing, but I still eat French bread and croissants, I drive my girlfriend's Peugeot from time to time, and I still buy Heller ship kits. If we think positive, it will come out OK for the 24 crewmembers. If we think negative, it will lead to another Cold War, or worse. It's not time to start worrying or boycotting just yet, folks. Mike Bartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: johnny chen Subject: Royal Navy's Type 42 Question Short Question. What was the "deck code" at the landing pad for HMS Coventry D118 Type 42 DDG which was sunk during the Falklands War in 1982? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: 1:48 scratch-built WW1 110 Ft. Submarine Chaser I am making a 1:48 scratch-built WW1 110 Ft. Submarine Chaser, which is equipped with a round-ended life raft. I have seen photos of these rafts, and they seem to have a "netting" floor (O.K., deck). Ordinary window screening is too coarse, and hobby shop screening is expensive (especially since I only need a piece about 1" by 2 1/2") and hard to find. Now I have a mind that works like lightning, one bright flash and it's all gone. The bright flash was to go to an appliance store that sells clothes dryers and hauls away the old ones. I asked them for a lint screen from an old machine they have in their junk pile. It is finer than window screening, and perfect for this application. They gave me one, and I cut a piece from it, and it "fits" just right. I hope this gives fellow SMMLers an idea for their projects. Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: PolTexCW@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:59:35 EDT Subject: Re: Card modelling >> Like all modelling, card models depend on the amount of effort you are willing to put into them. Don't expect miracles, it's not a matter of 'shake the box' and presto! you have an acceptable model. << I use card models to built otherwise unavailable subjects - but not as card models. I photo reduce (or enlarge) the sheets to the appropriate scale and then use the pieces as patterns to cut sheet styrene (or brass), adding whatever after market products are available, pieces from the parts box, plastic structural shapes etc. Saves a lot of work as opposed to pure stratch building - assuming the card model is accurate. John Biskupski -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: Chinese Boycott BRAVO ZULU to Shaya Novak and Naval Base Hobbies. I have deliberately avoided Chinese made kits, even those whose subjects I have wanted for years, to avoid having my money go to the jailers of the Laogai. Given the Chinese admission Sunday that the EP-3 tried to fly away from Hainan and was forced to land at Lingshui by the surviving Chinese fighter; the crew moved from the catagory of "detainees" who made an emergency landing, to having been captured over international waters by the armed forces of a hostile foreign nation. They are either hostages or under the Hague Convention to be treated as prisoners of war. Free Americans should not send their money to hostage takers or enemies. Don't buy Chinese kits, don't buy Chinese goods at all. Check the labels (too many US brand names are made in China), tell the store managers that you don't appreciate them stocking Chinese goods. If the alternative costs a bit more, consider it a contribution to the freedom of 24 American military men and women on Hainan and the 20 American civilians held on the mainland with no contact with our diplomats, despite treaties that mandate such contact. As an American of Chinese ancestry I am furious at the sight of American fighting men in hostile hands, and I pray that the Goddess of Democracy will rise again someday at Tiananmen. Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "PAULO LIBERATO (ESDI-CONTAB)" Subject: Modern Colors Hello, Can anyone help me on this: I've several 1/2400 modern ships to paint (USSR, US, UK, French) and I don´t know which colors to use for hull, decks, etc.... Best regards, Paulo Liberato -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Chinese Boykott Hi Shaya Try to see it the other way: Stop spying around other people's home and there will be no hostages who got cought creeping arround the back door! Falk Pletscher (Every medal has two sides) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Gollin, Phil" Subject: Regia Marina production schedule, 2001 - 2002 According to the Regia Marina production schedule 2001 - 2002 (reached via the Iron Warship site, address; http://warship.simplenet.com/RM2001Schedule.htm Regina Marina Intends to produce; 1/700th: Turbine Class Cacciatorpediniere (Destroyer) (WW2) Ariete Class Torpediniere (Torpedoboat/Escort) (WW2) Poeti Class Motor Ship (Merchantman) (WW2) Lerici and Gaeta Classes of Modern Minesweeper/Minehunters USN Osprey Class of Modern Minesweeper/Minehunter USS North Carolina (May include optional parts for USS Washington - undecided at moment) USS South Dakota Trans-Atlantic Liner Rex German Raider Atlantis German Raider Kormoran 1/350th: Pietro Calvi Class Submarine (WW2) 1/72nd: M.A.S.15 (WW1 M.T.B.) I understand that quite a few people on the list have been crying out for a good quality South Dakota, so a few encouraging e-mails may be in order. Regards, Phil -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "M & R Brown" Subject: Cock Up Kelvin Mok asked about a cock up. Here is the version I was told. When a sailing ships yards are lifted up so they lie at an angle to the masts, they are said to be cocked up or cock billed meaning turned up. This was considered to be a sign of sloppy practice on the ship concerned. Michael Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Darren Scannell" Subject: Re: SMML Con USS Hornet 2001 speakers >> Gary Kingzett: USS Oregon << Mooooaaaaaannnnnn.................... Boy am I glad I'm not going. You think he types long emails! Nuff said. Darren -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume