Subject: SMML VOL 1211 Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 23:21:24 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Oregon Etched Brass by Tom's Modelworks 2: Arizona Memorial 3: Toms Modelworks address 4: Gato Plans 5: NP-3 ?? 6: Re: Arizona Memorial 7: Re: RN Ship Deck Codes 8: Englanders! 9: Superdetailing 10: Gato class subs 11: Gato Plans 12: Re: Camouflage Volume 2 13: Gato plans 14: Re: Camouflage of J, K & N class destroyers 15: tin foil water 16: Contacting John Leyland 17: Re: Gato Plans 18: Re: PE set for Glencoe's "Oregon" 19: Re: JKNs 20: Re: Gato Sub 21: Badger airbrush FYI sites 22: Arizona Memorial 23: Re: 1/400 IJN Cruisers 24: French 1500 ton DD's 25: Re: Great Eastern 26: WARSHIP INTERNATIONAL 27: Paper Model warships site 28: Re: Arizona Memorial 29: Naval Shipboard Floatplanes 30: Oregon 31: The Brigantine Boatworks Project - the Los Angeles Maritime Institute 32: USS Los Angeles CA-135 Page 33: hull plating 34: Metal Models-Soldering 35: File cleaning 36: EP-3 crew homecoming - a first hand report 37: Paint -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: aandmblevins@att.net Subject: Re: Oregon Etched Brass by Tom's Modelworks Tom's Modelworks of 1050 Cranberry Drive, Cupertino, CA 95014 makes the set of etched brass for the Glencoe OREGON kit. The set cost (when I bought it about six months ago) $30.00. It contains, in addition to the handrails, ladders, platforms, bow shield, boat crane details, torpedo tube door, life ring holders and much more. There is a set of directions for updating the OREGON and how to assemble and apply the etctched brass details. Al Blevins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Ed Grune" Subject: Arizona Memorial If you want to do the Arizona Memorial, you should really get in touch with Dave Judy. He did one and it can be viewed at: http://www.steelnavy.com/images/scans/ArizonaMemorial.jpg This photo doesn't do it justice. There is an Arizona hull below the water surface. It has been cut down and was weathered before imbedding it in resin. The Memorial is scaled out using the plans. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Ed Grune" Subject: Toms Modelworks address Ray wrote looking for information on Toms Modelworks The URL for Toms Modelworks is http://www.tomsmodelworks.com/ If you go down the page to the link titled Specialty Brass Sets for box scale kits, that will lead you to the set for the Glenco Oregon. Once there, click the Oregon link for a picture of the brass fret. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Ed Grune" Subject: Gato Plans Mark wrote looking for plans for the Gato class of submarine. Check Floating Drydock's list of plans. Floating Drydock also publishes "The Floating Drydock's Plan Book Gato & Balao Class Submarines of World War Two" by Zygier and Walkowiak. ISBN 0-944055-06-0. It contains photos, profiles and scrap detail drawings of these classes. It doesn't have cross sections, but it is an invaluable resource. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Ed Grune" Subject: NP-3 ?? David wrote in response to >> >> What I want to know is what does an NP3 do? << << >> Personally, I've never heard of one, but the 'N' prefix usually designates permanent flight test aircraft. In this situation, they may be test aircraft for new elint equipment destined for the operational EP-3 units. Something has to haul the new gadgets up in the air and test them before they are deployed with active units. << If I remember correctly "N" is the civilian aircraft designator for the US. "Y" is a flight test aircraft. The designation of an aircraft as a NP-3 would indicate that this was a de-militarized P-3, transferred to civilian control. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: Arizona Memorial Mike, I have some drawings of the Memorial and an underwater survey I could copy and send you. Contact me off list....... Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: RN Ship Deck Codes Hi Guys I recent read from John Chen who said that a former crewmember of Coventry replied that it was CV on the helo deck. Skywave has that I've noticed missed spelled words in it's instructions so they may have intended CV but instead put OV. That's good, light has been put on forgotten subject. I think that CV is the correct designation. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Btbldr" Subject: Englanders! Hi folks I found the following BLUEBELL reference at the website: http://www.lutonmodelboat.freeuk.com/gallery_flower.htm "All the additional detail has been added using reference photographs taken two days before the vessel was sunk". There are obviously pictures out there - I emailed the club contact given, but unfortunately have had no reply. So for the Englanders on this list - please can you tell me how to get in contact with either the Luton Model Boat club, or someone with some pics.... Intersting comment as well - the author states that BLUEBELL was mined not torpedoed.... regards Malcolm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Btbldr" Subject: Superdetailing While on the topic of the Luton club, there is some amazing (!!!!) superdetailing shown on some of these models - take a look at the charts in the bridge of this model: http://www.lutonmodelboat.freeuk.com/gallery_knightstpatrick.htm - Mr Abbot - Bravo Zulu! How long does it take to do this models - he has a number of models represented! Check out the little steam engine at: http://www.lutonmodelboat.freeuk.com/auction_photos2.htm !!! regards Malcolm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: Gato class subs The Floating Drydock has plans for the Gato class sub as well as a plans book with plans, photos, etc. that is a great reference for any gato sub build. Check them out at: http://floatingdrydock.com Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL NRG member -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Joel Labow Subject: Gato Plans Floating Drydock has a number of plans of Gato class subs in various scales as well as a spiral-bound planbook for the Gato and Balao classes which is chock-full of photos and detail drawings. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Camouflage Volume 2 >> You have shown in the past an ability to state your position without actually providing any real basis for that position. Now I believe it's time that you, with no published works to your credit, provide some sort of tangible proof that you're right, and that Mr. Raven, with hundreds of accurate and published works to his credit, is wrong. You make four specific charges of incorrectness.Prove these four: 1. Kandahar illustration wrong 2. Nepal illustration wrong 3. Norman illustration wrong 4. Nepal second scheme wrong << I will be happy to post these photos on the shipcamouflage.com website if you wish. There everyone can see for themselves that Mr. Raven is either right or wrong. All I need is scans of the photos in question. If you cannot scan them, then point out where these photos are and i'm sure that other member will be glad to help. It's put-up or shut-up time Mr. Langtree! John Sheridan The only human to defeat the Minbari is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else. : Delenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Ron Hillsden" Subject: Gato plans Taubman Plans has GATO at 1/96 for US$20. It's worth a browse if you know the names of some of the others in the class - I think there may be other GATO boat plans in his inventory. http://www.taubmansonline.com/ Ron Hillsden Victoria BC Canada Club: http://members.home.net/vmss/ Flags: http://members.home.net/ron-hillsden/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Camouflage of J, K & N class destroyers Photos taken of the Nepal in service show a three colour design that is generally in line with the design sheet, that I looked over and made notes from nearly fourty years ago, One has to careful with certain photos taken as completed or on commissiong, as camouflage was sometimes changed very soon after. Two examples of this are, one, the destroyer Quail, which had an experimental design on commissioning and then adopted a quite different pattern as placed in service. Two, The destroyer Onslaught, which completed in a Western Approaches pattern, only to be repainted in a completely different type of camouflage just a few weeks later. There are other examples of this practice of course but this is not the place to list them. It appears from what is stated that the Nepal was repainted at some date not too long after going into service. I would be interested in seeing these photos (not copies), and can then make a decision as to wether or not it is worth adding a piece of artwork that would be included in Camouflage Volume Four - supplementary. But certainly the artwork in Volume Two I believe to be accurate. I have a photo of the Kandahar showing that the pattern is carried on to the upperworks. The colours on the Norman are correct. I do not give the colours on the the Nepal (page 38 of Volume Two). The caption I feel is the correct one, and I did not feel that I could have added to it in a meaningful way. Others may dissagree. One has to very careful about making statements on the subject of camouflage. I have found that they are often not wrong, and often not right. I used to be like certain individuals when I was young and ---------. I gradually changed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Gruffydd3@aol.com Subject: tin foil water A question for those who make water from tin foil. What do you use to glue it to the wood base? Any tips for modeling water with tin foil? Rick Morgan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Contacting John Leyland >> Would anyone know how I could get in touch with John Leyland, whose awesome USS Enterprise model graced the cover of Fine Scale Modeler several months back? << Mike, Write John your letter and send it to FSM. Request that it be forwarded to him. It wouldn't hurt to include a SASE so he can reply. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. You can now pay using your Visa / MasterCard Flagship Models - Photo Etched Details for Warships "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Gato Plans >> I would like to build a Gato class Submarine 1:100 scale can anyone help me out with getting the plans - plan, elevation and sectional views << Contact Floating Dry-dock. They have excellent plans and a really nice and highly detailed plan book covering the Gato and Balao class subs. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. You can now pay using your Visa / MasterCard Flagship Models - Photo Etched Details for Warships "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Vmclawyer@aol.com Subject: Re: PE set for Glencoe's "Oregon" Ray Mehlberger wrote asking about Tom's Modelworks PE for Oregon. Ray, you can price/buy PE from Tom's Modelworks thru The Floating Drydock &/or The Naval Base Hobbies Websites. Alternatively, go to SteelNavy Website & it will link you to the Tom's Modelworks Website & you can price/buy direct. Hope this helps. Regards, Bill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Re: JKNs Dear Edwin I am writing a book about the subject and have carried out a considerable amount of time consuming and expensive research. The book will be published some time in 2002 and like everyone else you can wait. I am afraid that you are not on the privileged list of people I share my research with pre-publication and you will have to buy the book when it comes out - ie: I am not writing this work for charity but I will respond to questions from people who help me. When the book comes out you will see the photographic proof as all camouflage information included in the book will be based ONLY on photographs. The photograph of Kandahar I referred to is to form the fronts piece. For the Ns I would suggest you have a look at the website of the Australian War Memorial where there are plenty of photos. Clearly you haven't found time to do so yet but it always pays to actually carry out the research before commenting on someone's work or commenting on someone else's opinions, a failing you share with many others. In writing a book I have to balance how much information I give out and how this might affect sales of my book. If I let everyone see the unpublished photos then the book looses some of its impact (actually I would welcome other opinions on this - not yours Edwin). From the position of having done this research I was able to pass some comments on Camouflage Volume Two but you will note I confined myself to what I knew not what I didn't. Camouflage Volume 1 had numerous flaws (as is shown by the corrections printed in Volume 2). This happens when an author gets complacent and with Alan Raven's recent publications there is a strong thread of that running through it. The issue here boils down to whether readers want flawed work which covers a subject which might not be dealt with in full or detailed and accurate work which only covers part of a subject. Remember this I have done the research but Mr Raven hasn't and neither have you. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Gato Sub >> I would like to build a Gato class Submarine 1:100 scale can anyone help me out with getting the plans - plan, elevation and sectional views << Mark- Floating Drydock has sets of plans for submarines. I would strongly urge that you choose a specific submarine at a specific time period during the war. For example, I have drawings of Flasher (SS-249) conning tower at three different points over a 3 year period, and it looks drastically different with the cutdowns, radar and gun additions down over that period. You should try to obtain photographs of the submarine you choose, as it is almost certain that no two fleet submarines were in identical condtion and outfitting at any one point. Items such as limber holes, anchor placement and other itema were specific to particular building yards. In my role as static model columnist for the SubCommittee's magazine, The Subcommittee Report, I will be doing a build-up over several issues of the Revell Lionfish using Nautilus Models resin conning tower kits starting in the Fall. It will be 1:178 scale, not 1:100. Curious as to why use 1:100; why not 1:96, as there are fittings available in that scale. Also, what do you intend to build your model from; will it be plank on bulkhead with fiberglass over it? Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Vmclawyer@aol.com Subject: Badger airbrush FYI sites SMML, Having asked here for help on several occasions, I'd like to pay, in part, my debt for kind help from several SMML correspondents by providing FYI Websites for Badger Airbrush, including all of their Marine paints, which, I promise you, cannot be found in my hometown. All Badger products are available from Wyn-Wyn, Inc., in Chicago. Go to http://www.4wynwyn.com/. Website is well thought out, easy to navigate & easy to order on-line. Alltho Badger doesn't sell direct, their Website also is worth visiting for Badger products info. Go to: http:///www.badger-airbrush.com/ Hope this is of interest/help to some/all. Best Regards, Bill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Ralph Nardone" Subject: Arizona Memorial Hello, all! Mike asked: >> I want the project to be a fitting tribute to those who lost their lives on December 7th. Hopefully the result will be museum quality. So, if any one has and would be willing to share information about the ship, the memorial, or related information I would be most appreciative. << Mike, You should try to find (if you don't have it already) Paul Stillwell's book "Battleship Arizona-An Illustrated History", as it contains great information on the ship as she sat immediately after the attack as well as how she is today. Most of the information is from the Parks Service dives on the ship........ Cheers! Ralph -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Joseph W. Reyna" Subject: Re: 1/400 IJN Cruisers Peter, >> So, I think we have confirmed the existence of all four Mogami class cruisers, at least one Tone and four Tamiya Nati class kits in that scale. I for one really hope that Tamiya either changes its mind or lets someone else use these molds ....snip << I strongly second the motion to revive the Tamiya 1/400 scale Japanese cruiser kits; and while we're at it, the Japanese 1/400 YAMATO/MUSASHI by Nichimo and the Otaki MUTSU/NAGATO!. I for one wish that some more interested parties would join this informal "poll" - perhaps Tamiya peruses our SMML-lie musings, or if we get enough feedback, perhaps we could forward an electronic petition to the good folks there. I mean, C'MON! We're not asking for the research, development and expensive manufacturing of NEW molds, just the reissue of kits from already engineered molds........PLEASE ?!?! Joe Reyna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Paul and Renee Jacobs" Subject: French 1500 ton DD's In late 1939 the French began modifications to their 1500 ton DD's of the SIMOUN and BOURRASQUE Classes. The primary alteration was the removal of the #3 or #4, 130mm gun on some of the ships and the removal of the mainmast. Other alterations followed, though they were minor until after the remaining units of the former Vichy navy joined the Allies in 1943, when significant alterations were made to enhance their AA fit. Can anyone provide detailed information on what ships had what specific alterations between 1939-42 or a good readily available source for this? I am looking for specifics, not generalities. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: VONJERSEY@aol.com Subject: Re: Great Eastern i remember seeing a kit for great eastern about 20-25 odd years ago. i wish i had bought it then. never saw it again -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Dengar" Subject: WARSHIP INTERNATIONAL The latest issue of this magazine carries a feature article on the IJN I-14,I-400,I-401 submarines 1945-46 for those of you who are interested. Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: NEVENGER@aol.com Subject: Paper Model warships site I found this real cool site. It think it is in Italion which I do not speak, but I think they laid out the plans to make the models in a real complete way. The first one is the link to the DKM Scharnhorst. http://digilander.iol.it/zioprudenzio/mod-sharnhost.html This secound site is for the DKM Grafspee. http://digilander.iol.it/zioprudenzio/mod-grafspee.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: Arizona Memorial Hi SMMLies, As for the Arizona Memorial you can get plans of the memorial itself from the park services there, I did. If they no long give them out ask me for a copy. Paul Stillwell's Arizona book is an excellent info guide for this project. Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "Hank Lapa" Subject: Naval Shipboard Floatplanes If the Ginter book on Curtiss SC Seahawk ever comes out you all can see floatplanes with sharkmouths! Ship was USS HELENA (CA-75), 1946-47, on China duty. My Dad worked on these planes, and when ship arrived in Long Beach at end of round-the-world 1st cruise, he watched from the fantail as the Spruce Goose made its only flight. Regards, Hank -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: JVT7532@aol.com Subject: Oregon Hi Ray, Just a few words on the Oregon, one there's a pretty good article in this issue of IPMS that you should check out and the second is that Toms & Goldmedal both make the PE sets for this ship, the Goldmedal set is a two ship set for the Oregon and the Olympia. I have both sets but used most of the Toms set as I like it a bit better and it covers some things that are not covered in the Goldmedal set. Here are a few good sites that will help you out while building her. I hope this helps you out a bit, if you need more info please feel free to contact me as I'm nearly finished building mine in a few months. http://home.worldnet.att.net/~jmea/ USS Oregon Home Page http://home.worldnet.att.net/~jmea/PhotoFile.html" http://www.tomsmodelworks.com/" Tom's Modelworks Online Catalog http://www.goldmm.com/" Gold Medal Models Home Page Best regards, Jon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "Bruce" Subject: The Brigantine Boatworks Project - the Los Angeles Maritime Institute To anyone who might think that boat wrights are A profession of the past, your in for a surprise and this is not in any Scale any of us can afford too build, and it's right in my back Yard, {almost} and as soon, as one can get photographs of this project I'll let Shane know http://www.brigantineboatworks.com/ They're starting from the keel-up all I can say is what a site to behold, Enjoy Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: "Bruce" Subject: USS Los Angeles CA-135 Page This is something worth sharing With ship modelers Enjoy the site http://www.uss-la-ca135.org/welcome.html Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "Chris Christenson" Subject: hull plating I have been thinking about the postings about plating that have appeared the last few days and have a couple of suggestions from the world of wingy thingys. I built a P-51 and wanted to do a natural metal finish. FineScale Modeler just happened to have an article on "covering" a model with aluminum foil (they used a P-47). I tried it and came out with a fantastic finish, and the panel lines looked realistic. Why wouldn't this work for hull plating? Admittedly a moderate case of masochism would help. Cut the foil to the panel shapes, attach, burnish, prime, and paint. My Mustang has survived for quite a few years now and the foil took paint very well. If interested I could find the article, I believe it was in the late 80's. Another technique would be to mask off panels and paint multiple coats of primer or paint and get a raised effect. I wish everyone on the list a blessed Easter, and may the message of the day be impressed on us all. Chris Christenson Ord-summer will never get here--Nebraska -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Metal Models-Soldering >> If you are careful, you can even solder the larger parts of the kits together. Though my casters tell me this, I haven't yet tried it. << AIIEEEE!!!!! DO THIS CAREFULLY!! I have soldered some Skytrex sails to masts on their 1:1200 Napoleonic and such ships. I soon went back to super glue. It makes a good, solid joint but can go wrong very quickly. If you MUST solder here are some hints. Get a 15 watt soldering iron. These can be had at Radio Shack or such stores. If the piece is too big for 15 watt use epoxey or super glue. Use heat sinks to control the area heated. Easiest way is alligator clips 1/4" either side of area to be soldered. They keep the whole piece from melting and can also hold your 2 pieces together while being soldered. They will also scratch or bend the soft white metal pieces so plan on some clean-up. After soldering remove any flux from the pieces. You can get away with flux-less soder when joining 2 white metal pieces, but brass to white metal or brass to brass needs flux. Usually your solder is a tiny tube filled with flux. I cleaned up solder joints by washing in warm water and brushing vigerously with an old tooth brush and kitchen sink cleaner. The powdered stuff- Ajax, Bon-Ami, or such.Paint won't go well over the flux. Don't use "silver solder", it requires too much heat. Good Luck Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister http://www.egroups.com/group/WoodenWalls Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: File cleaning >> A writer commented that he found it difficult to clean small fine files. They can be cleaned by using a light gauge [ .010- .020 ] sheet of brass. Using the edge of the sheet rub it back and forth on the file. The softer brass will form teeth which in turn will take the yet softer debris out of the file. << Hi Clem; If this works to clean fine files clogged with white metal / pewter I will hunt you down and kiss your feet. I have a box with 30 years worth of clogged fine files, many dozen files. I hope this goes in the builder's hints section. Klem- attached is a "virtual beverage" of your choice. Drink deep and prosper! Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister http://www.egroups.com/group/WoodenWalls Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: Loren Perry Subject: EP-3 crew homecoming - a first hand report My wife and I just returned from NAS Whidbey Island, Washington earlier this afternoon (April 14th) where we joined thousands of other grateful Americans in welcoming our Navy, Marine, and Air Force aircrew (Sgt. Richard Pray was the USMC member and SrA Curtis Towne was the USAF member) home from their unplanned stay in China. U.S. Navy officers and enlisted personnel set up a large viewing area on the flightline and over a dozen large media vans crowded the ramp. The VQ-1 hangar (shared by three other squadrons) was manned by Navy people who answered questions and helped visitors as well as dispensing free drinks and snacks provided by local organizations in honor of the event. Everyone seemed joyous and happy at the thought of the impending return of the "Whidbey 24". Even my wife Sherry became something of a media darling as both print photographers and TV video crews zeroed in on her shoes, each of which sported a small American flag waving in the breeze - along with thousands of other flags around the field. Yellow ribbons were everywhere with hundreds of them tied to the handrails of the magnificent bridge at Deception Pass, where State Road 20 approaches Ault Field (NAS Whidbey.) We were fortunate to be positioned exactly in front of where the C-9 "City of Seattle" flown by a crew from VR-61's "Islanders" would come to a stop and the returning heroes would step off. At 1555 hours PDT, the C-9 made a dramatic low pass (estimated 800 feet altitude) down the length of the duty runway with landing gear and flaps still up while the crowd went wild. It then banked left and lowered its gear and flaps while entering the downwind leg of the landing pattern, disappearing from view behind the hangar. A few minutes later, the roar of twin thrust reversers announced its arrival and it rolled into view while the thousands of guests cheered thunderously. A final minute passed as it taxied up to the debarkation point in front of us. While I took photos with a 35mm camera, my wife manned the video camera and we watched as each of the 24 men and women saluted at the top of the airstairs and then decended to a roaring welcome from the crowd. A Navy band played stirring patriotic marches that further set the mood. Behind the C-9 were arranged P-3 Orions in Lo-Viz gray from the VP squadrons stationed there, a lone EA-6B Prowler, and a single sister EP-3 Aries (also from VQ-1's "World Watchers") which was resplendent in its High-Visibility Gloss White and Gull Gray colors identical to its ill-fated mate still in China. A black bat squadron insignia adorned the fin. This plane was in fact the only aircraft in sight in colorful Hi-Viz markings other than the C-9 - a subtle detail that once and for all puts the lie to the claim by some misguided souls that the EP-3 is a "spy plane". Civilian dignitaries included Washington governor Gary Locke, Washington State Senators Maria Cantwell and Patty Murray, numerous other Washington State elected officials, and the mayor of nearby Oak Harbor, Patty Cohen. EP-3 Pilot LT Shane Osborn made a brief speech and was loudly cheered by the crowd with every sentence. LT Osborn expressed gratitude to the Bush Administration, the people of Washington State, Americans everywhere, and Mr. Ross Perot who apparently made it possible for certain people (unkown to me at this time) to travel by air at no charge (unknown why, where, or when at this time.) LT Osborn also emphasized that the Chinese pilot was solely responsible for the collision, while RADM M. L. Holmes (Commander Patrol and Reconnaissance Force Pacific) officially confirmed to the crowd and press that the EP-3 was still on autopilot in normal cruise mode at the time of the accident. Subsequent release to the press of both still and video images of Chinese fighters coming dangerously close to other EP-3's in the Pacific have given further credence to the U.S. position that the Chinese Air Force have behaved in an incredibly reckless manner with USN patrol flights over international waters. I'm sure by now we've all seen the color photos of the F-8 flying under an EP-3's left wingtip with the Chinese pilot waving at the USN crew while nearly level with the EP-3's cabin windows. This particular photo is chilling to say the least - even the Russians at the height of the Cold War were never this foolhardy. This was a very inspirational event for me, one that will always remain firmly in my memory. I was proud of our crew and proud of their performance while facing an unpredictable force arrayed against them. Loren Perry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37) From: "Fred Schwarz" Subject: Paint Happy Easter! Has anyone used the WWII US Navy warship colors by Model Shipways that can be ordered from Model Expo Inc? Are they accurate? Do they paint well? Thanks. Fred -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume