Subject: SMML VOL 1238 Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 03:17:29 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Camouflage Volume Two: A review made by matching reference photographs 2: Dimensions of standard sized steel plates? 3: Re: Supermarine Walrus 4: ARII 1/250 Musashi 5: Early Navy Night air groups 6: First Model 7: Review: French Naval Aviation at War, 1939 - 1940. AERO JOURNAL, No. 18 8: Re: Too Many Kits? 9: Re: First Kit 10: Re: Parrot Feathers 11: My First Kit 12: First model and special memories 13: Tornado misses Mansfield listmembers 14: Kriegsmarine Radio Call Signs 15: Re: Walrus 16: Cost Cutting on Plastic 17: Re: first ship kit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: MMclau1079@aol.com Subject: Camouflage Volume Two: A review made by matching reference photographs The inherent weakness of making a review of this nature, is that it is dependent on having the approximate reference photo that Alan Raven has used as a partial basis for his respective ship's camouflage drawings. Royal Navy camouflage patterns are a lot like "A's & A's" on an "As Fitted" plan drawing of a ship. Both are time specific and may only apply for a relatively short period of time. In a years time, a respective ship's camouflage pattern may change in a subtle manor or as in the case of many of the ships covered in this book, change dramatically several times during the same year. The following is a list of reference books that I have used to match photographs to Alan Raven's (time specific) 1942 camouflage ship's drawings: (1) British Destroyers in World War Two, by R.A. Burt. (2) The Rusian Convoys 1941-1945, by Paul Kemp. (3) British Fleet & Escort Destroyers Vol 1 & 2, by H.T. Lenton. (4) Australian Seapower Destroyers, Photofile # 5. (5) British Destroyers, by Edgar March. (6) Tribal Class Destroyers, by Peter Hodges. (7) Ensign 2 Dido Class, by H.T. Lenton & Alan Raven. (8) Ensign 6 O-Z Classes, by Alan Raven & John Roberts. (9) Man O' War 1 County Class Cruisers, by Alan Raven & John Roberts. (10) Man O' War 2 V & W Class Destroyers, by Alan Raven & John Roberts. (11) Man O' War 4 Hunt Class Escort Destroyers, by Alan Raven & John Roberts. (12) Man O' War 5 Town Class Cruisers, by Alan Raven & John Roberts. (13) Man O'War 7 Flower Class Corvettes, by Anthony Preston & Alan Raven. (14) British Cruisers of World War Two, by Alan Raven & John Roberts. (15) The Australian War Memorial Photographic web site section. The following are photographs that I have matched from these references to Alan Raven's respective (time specific) 1942 camouflage drawings listed in no particular order: (1) B Class destroyer Boadicea, pg. 4 matches R.A. Burt, Destroyers pg. 16. (2) Hunt Class Destroyer Escort Liddesdale, pg. 6 matches Man O'War 4, pg. 24. (3) Corvette Hydrangea, pg. 4 matches Man O'War 7, pg. 19. (4) Corvette Jonquil, pg. 8 matches Man O'War 7, pg. 15. (5) Corvette Vetch, pg. 56 matches Man O'War 7, pg. 42. (6) V Class destroyer Veteran, pg. 50 matches Man O'War 2, pg. 35. (7) I Class destroyer Icarus, pg. 49 matches R.A. Burt, Destroyers pg. 23. (8) F Class destroyer Fame, pg. 49 matches Edgar March, Destroyers (sistership Fury) pg. 297. (9) Hunt Class D.E. Pindos, pg. 6 matches Man O'War 4, pg. 5. (10) Tribal Class destroyer Bedouin, pg. 52 matches Peter Hodges, Tribal Class, pg. 42. (11) Escort Carrier flight deck Avenger, pg. 24 matches Paul Kemp, Rusian Convoys, pg. 33. (12) W Class destroyer Winchelsea, pg. 46 matches Man O'War 2, pg. 21. (13) W Class destroyer Windsor, pg. 46 matches Man O'War 2 pg. 54. (14) M Class destroyer Matchless, pg. 46 matches H.T. Lenton, Destroyers Vol 1, pg. 133. (15) L Class Destroyer Loyal, pg. 52 matches R.A. Burt, Destroyers, pg. 33. (16) Cruiser Belfast, pg. 10 matches Man O'War 5, pg. 48. (17) Cruiser Arethusa, pg. 25 matches British Cruisers, pg. 352. (18) Cruiser Jamaica, pg. 27 matches British Cruisers, pg. 309. (19) Cruiser Sussex, pg. 29 matches Man O'War 1, pg. 50. (20) Cruiser Hawkins, pg. 19 matches British Cruisers, pg. 229. (21) Cruiser Delhi, pg. 31 matches British Cruisers pg. 231. (22) Cruiser Charybdis, pg. 30 matches Ensign 2, No # pg. (23) Cruiser Argonaut, pg. 31 matches Ensign 2, No # pg. (24) Cruiser Perth, pg. 34 matches Australian War Memorial Photo. (25) Destroyer Ripley, pg. 9 matches R.A. Burt, Destroyers, pg. 62. (26) Cruiser London, pg. 33 matches Paul Kemp, Rusian Convoys, pg. 33. (27) N Class destroyer Nepal, pg. 35 matches Australian Destroyers, pg. 35. (28) N Class destroyer Nepal, pg. 28 matches H.T. Lentons, Destroyers Vol 1, pg. 133. This particular photo is of poor quality and is badly shaded in the destroyers bridge area. I can confirm from it the lower hull camouflage, the two toned stack camouflage and X guns camouflage pattern only. The photograph Alan Raven used for confirmation of Nepal's camouflage pattern would have to have been superior to the one I have used for comparison. (29) O Class Destroyer Obedient Profile A, pg.43 matches H.T. Lenton, Destroyers Vol 2, pg. 6. This photograph confirms the temporary absense of the penant number. (30) O class destroyer Obdurate Profile B, pg. 43 matches Paul Kemp, Rusian Convoys, pg. 43. I can list additional matches at a later posting if anyone is interested. The result however, will only confirm the obvious. Clearly, Alan Raven uses time specific photographs as a partial basis for his camouflage drawings. Most of the reference photo's I used to confirm matches are dated by month and by year in their respective captions and can help in constructing a time line within 1942 to show the evolution of a particular ship's camouflage. For instance, Wolverine found on pg. 7, shows this W Class destroyer in her early 1942 camouflage appearance. Man O'War 2, has reference photographs that show that by August 1942, she had changed to a two toned design. A late 1942 photograph and centerspread artwork by John Roberts shows her in a third camouflage design. The Australian War Memorial photographic section is also, helpful when used with Alan Raven's drawing of Nepal in showing the evolution of her camouflage designs. However, their photographs for the N Class destroyers are dated only by year and not by month, which is crucial for an accurate time line. This web site has a photograph dated 1942, that shows Nepal in a two tone scheme. Another photo in a 3 tone scheme which is different from the H.T. Lenton photograph and Alan Raven's 3 toned drawing. Additionaly, there is yet another photograph of Nepal which is almost the same scheme shown in Alan Raven's drawing found on pg. 28. The only difference is that her stack shows in the AWM photograph the same two toned pattern found on pg. 28. The photograph of Nepal found in Australian Seapower Destroyers, pg. 35 shows Nepal in exactly the same scheme as Alan Raven's drawing found on pg. 35. Clearly, Nepal went through both subtle and several dramatically different schemes throughout 1942. The AWM photographs of Norman and Nestor also, show several different camouflage patterns carried by the two respective ships in 1942. Alan Raven has produced a large volume of camouflage drawings in his previously published Royal Navy books. The natural expectation would be that these previous drawings would make up the majority of the drawings in Camouflage Volume Two. In fact, I found that very few drawings were repeated and that this volume tends to supliment his previous woorks rather than repeat it. I found this same phenomenon in Alan Raven & John Roberts two books on British Battleships and Cruisers when compared to their previous Ensign and Man O'War publications. I found another curious similarity with Alan Raven's books in the Ensign Series which date from 1972. Apparently, when it came to the authors notice that a photograph had been miscaptioned from the first book in the series, the author noted the mistake in the second book of the series. Almost thirty years later, Alan Raven has again noted printing ommisions from the first volume of this series along with an additional supplement. Apparently, the author is again more interested in providing the reader with accurate information than protecting his ego. If any miscaptions can be documented from this volume, I fully expect that the author will follow his previously established form and make note in the third volume of this series. Based on the volume of photographs that I have found that match the camouflage drawings in this book, I believe that Alan Raven has again, well researched his subject. Respectfully, Miles F. Mclaughlin P.S. The Australian Seapower Destroyers book has a single toned pattern photograph of nestor (pg. 36) which has the same vertical stripe through her flotilla bands as Alan Raven notes that Kandahar had. The only difference is that the Bands are in white on Nestor. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Dimensions of standard sized steel plates? There was a recent thread on simulating steel plate on hulls with various methods of masking and painting. I have a different project for which I seek information on the standard size of factory produced steel plates and if possible the gauges in which they are produced for full sized ship building. I would also appreciate any information on the kind of curves steel plate can take the obvious observation being that sharp or complex curves would require the welding together of numerous small plates. I had always wanted to make fibreglass hulls but was put off by the cost, the springiness and the thickness of the fibreglass mats. I know some of you with more experience will disagree but I have come up with an alternative material that I am willing to spend money and experiment on. This is to use industrial strength paper towels that have a very high wet and tear resistance. The paper is thin and soaks up water and liquids well. When I made an emergency repair using epoxy glue on this paper matrix that result was stronger than the original material repaired. Soaked with fibreglass resin it should form an excellent molding. And I can always "wet fit" first using limp wet paper to see how it will lay on the hull before applying resin. As flexible and conformal as this paper is it still will not conform completely to the ABS hull of a 24 inch fishing boat I am trying to duplicate. If I am going to cut up the paper into strips I might as well cut them up closest to plating as would have appeared in a real ship and patch "weld" them up accordingly. This is an open question for which there may be no quick answers. But if this experiment works I will probably do up that 1/24 RC S-Boote that I had always wanted. So the question is what are the common or standard sizes that steel plate used for shipbuilding is manufactured in? I can always cut up the panels within these dimensions. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Laurie Menadue" Subject: Re: Supermarine Walrus Walrus info: try the RAAF Museum at Point Cook, Victoria , Australia. They are restoring one with some pics at - http://www.raafmuseum.com.au/tour/index.htm Also at: http://www.hotel.wineasy.se/ipms/stuff_eng_detail_walrus.htm http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query_au?p=supermarine+seagull&hc=0&hs=0 regards Laurence SEARCH & DELIVER Services - a Division of Menadue Models in Bowen, Tropical North Queensland Australia www.geocities.com/menaduemodels www1.tpgi.com.au/users/lmenadu www.geocities.com/menaduemodelsqr -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Doug Marrel" Subject: ARII 1/250 Musashi Can anyone post a quick review on this kit? How big is it? Doug -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: Early Navy Night air groups The earliest navy carrier night fighter/interceptor flights were from Enterprise, I believe in 1943 (Butch O'Hare was lost in one of these engagements). According to "Batmen" by John W. MacGlashing the navy had the following night units: Group Year Carrier Claims VF(N)-41 1944 USS Independence 46-3-3 VF(N)-75 1943 Solomons (Shore based) 7-2-0 VF(N)-76 1944 Hornet 37-2-0 VF(N)-77 1944 Essex 8-0-0 VF(N)-78 1944 Intrepid 2-0-2 Air Group 90 1945 Enterprise 42-3-1 VF(N)-91 1945 Bon Homme Richard 9-2-0 VF(N)-101 1944 Intrepid 5-1-3 This book is available for the USS Enterprise CV-6 ship's store at: http://www.cv6.org/ The author is still living. The AG-90 radar officer is a retired navy captain, living here in New Hampshire. He was nearly killed in the crash shown on page 20 of the book. (Sorry a little off the topic here.) Steve Singlar Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: First Model Greetings: My first model was given to me by my father when we joined him in Okinawa in 1954. It was an Douglas F3D Skyknight produced by Allen. Solid plastic fuselage, solid wings and tail planes, clear plastic canopy. I never had trouble with the canopy fogging, because I never glued it on. It was so much cooler to be able to open and close it to let the imaginary pilots in and out (that it really didn't function like that was irrelevant to a six year old). It was a sturdy model, weighing almost as much as I did. I still like the Skyknight, and would like a good kit of it today. My first ship was the Revell USS Haven hospital ship, which didn't survive the return trip back to the States. I also build airplanes, usually one to every two ships. Variety is the spice of life, to use the cliche. I have also been known to build a tank or three, but no lately. The most unique model in my collection is a Hasegawa Jaguar XJR prototype. Since I couldn't duplicate the wonderful gloss finishes of the car modelers, I painted it in a British day fighter scheme. I added gun pods, duped all the colorful decals into low-viz black, converting it to the ground attack variant the XGR. The car guys usually look askance, but it is unique. Are there any listmates in Munich or Bavaria? I may be travelling there later this year (it's my home actually). Responses off-list would be more appropriate, I believe. Thanks, John Collins Atlanta, GA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: Review: French Naval Aviation at War, 1939 - 1940. AERO JOURNAL, No. 18 Though not strictly dealing with the scale modeling of naval vessels, there is an excellent within the latest French language aviation magazine AERO JOURNAL No. 18. For anyone who is either a fan of the French navy or its aviation (Aeronautique Navale, AN), or the person who wishes to model naval aviation subjects to go along with their collections of naval subjects, this thirty-five page article by Mr. Chris Ehrengardt, the editor of AERO JOURNAL, on this little known and fascinating subject will be absolute treasure trove of useful information. Though AERO JOURNAL is a French language magazine, there is a greatly appended English language insert in most of the later issues. Despite the language difference in historical reference material, the shear mass of rare and private collection of extremely clear photographs, accompanied with very detailed captions, and the excellent color illustrations by Mr. P-A. Tilley elevate each issue of this magazine into the monograph area of publications. Featured on the cover of this issue is a lovely "at sea" photograph of a Loire 130 sitting on the stern catapult of a French warship that is ahead of the BB Strasbourg or Dunkerque. Besides being a stunning shot, this photograph illustrates how the Loire 130 crew had to climb a thirty foot ladder to enter the aircraft. On page six of this particular issue is an extremely clear and beautifully framed photograph of the French seaplane carrier "Commandant Teste" that is shown just above the starboard wing of a MS-406 at the port of Beymouth, Algeria, in March 1940. At this period of time, the French AN fighter unit AC5 ("Les escadrille [d'Assaut] de Chasse, AC) was being replace the four Bloch 151 fighters at Corsica with MS-406 fighters that had been transferred from the Rochefort, Saint-Rafael, Hourtin area. Though the "Commandant Teste" was operational as a combatant with the French Fleet, its assigned torpedo float-plane units T1 and T2 ("Les escadrilles de torpillage, T"), both part of HB1, were both operating as shore-based units at Saint-Mandrier. The reason that these "T" units were shore based was because of the fact that the "Commandant Teste" was involved with the redistribution efforts of the AN in its modernization program of its units throughout the fleet. The following page of this article, page seven, shows an AN Vought 156N from the French AN bomber unit AB1 ("Les escadrille d'Assaut de Bombardment, AB) undertaking carrier acceptance trials aboard the French aircraft carrier Bearn during April 1940 off of d'Hyeres. AB1 was a Fleet Embarkment ("Flottilles embarque'es") unit that also supplied the four Lavasseur PL-7 floatplanes based at Lanve'oc-Poulmic for fleet deployment aboard French BBs, CAs and CLs. Besides providing excellent unit deployment, operations, and loss charts, for the entire French AN aerial fleet during the entire 1939 - 1940 war period, on page 30 of the article is an excellent side-bar story of the events of the French Farman NC-223.4 bomber number 2, "F-ARIN; 'Jules-Verne'," from "de l'escadrille B5. On the night of 7 and 8 May 1940, this aircraft made a single aircraft night bombing mission to Berlin. This particular mission started at 15:28 at Bordeaux-Merignac, and flew a "dog-leg" flightpath north to the English Channel before turning north-east across the North Sea until it turned east toward Denmark. Having entered the Baltic Sea, the "Jules-Verne" turned south for Berlin, and, finally dropping its tiny bombload over a five minute period before it headed southwest to finally land at Paris-Orly at 4:02 local time. From the information in this side-bar article, one can ascertain that the French Farman 223.4 bombers number 1, "F-AQJM; 'Camille-Flammarion'," and number 3, "F-AROA; 'Le Verrier,' were both unpainted at the time of the Berlin bombing mission, and as late as 16 July 1940. For anyone interested in the combat operations of the French naval aviation of this period should contact the editor of this magazine at the following address: AERO-EDITIONS 50, bid Paul Valery 32500 Fleurance France e-mail: aeroeditions@free.fr or at: aerojournal@infonie.fr The individual issue price is advertised at 5.95 Euros, or about US$ 5.31. Harold Stockton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Michael471295@cs.com Subject: Re: Too Many Kits? I know the feeling of "am I really going to complete all of theses in my lifetime?". Upon and inventory of my kits the other day, I calculated that if I finished one every three months (never going to happen) it would take me 41 years to do them all! EEEEK! Can't let my lovely wife know that! But, like I tell her, there are plenty to build with our future kids. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Michael471295@cs.com Subject: Re: First Kit In Cub Scouts, age 7, 1972, the first model I built all be myself without "help" (read watching him do it) from old Dad, was a Lindberg Tug boat. I also built a Lindberg battleship I think at the same Pack Meeting. I still have the tug boat to this day. I was fortunate enough to rescue it while cleaning out mom's basement when she sold her house. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Richa5011@aol.com Subject: Re: Parrot Feathers Rusty wrote: >> They were VERY realistic looking. His secret to making the Palm leaves was PARROT FEATHERS! << Would those be feathers from the Norwegien Blue species of parrot, who perfer sleeping on thier backs? Actually that makes a lot of sense. Any smaller bird will provide feathers with a fine consistancy would do the job...though you might have to trim them to shape. Pidgeon feathers come to mind. Perhaps that would provide some opportunity for those that are trying to rid Trafalger Square of the huge number of pidegons that reside there. Nat Richards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "lcp9" Subject: My First Kit My First kit was HMS Victory,I got it by sending in Cheerio's box tops plus a small sum (99 cents maybe). I think it was the 1/600 PYRO model, I saw such a kit in a hobby shop years later. I think I was 7 or 8, I could read the historical blurb on the instructions. None of the parts fit correctly, there were lots of gaps in the hull & decks. (What da ya mean, operator error?). The rigging was fun, I did most of the standing rigging. After gracing my dresser for several years, my brother & I "modified" it with hot knives into an aquarium wreck. It spent the next 10 years or so growing algae at the bottom or my brother's fish tank. It was shortly followed by the Lindbergh Manchester CL, and over the years nearly every Revel, Aurora, and Lindbergh ect model kit I could find. (Airfix and those other "Exotic foreign companies" never made it to the backwaters of Eastern PA where I grew up). Most of these ended at the botton of the local creek, victum of firecrackers or BB guns. David -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: First model and special memories My first model was not actually built by myself, but my father. It was the Airfix VC-10 in BOAC markings, and the event may have prejudiced my opinion, but I think the VC-10 is the most beautiful subsonic airliner ever built. The last BOAC livery complements the design superbly - no other livery looks so good on the VC-10, and no other aircraft looks so good in those colours. Naturally, I thought it was a toy and, and didn't last long, probably less than a week. The first model I ever built myself, I really cannot remember. It was probably an Airfix kit that ended it's days with a firecracker inside. I do recall some of the larger kits I got and built for Christmas; the 1:24 Hurricane that was assembled without the benefit of reading the instructions, and then to be finished in gloss green and brown camouflage. At the time I thought that if I wanted a Spitfire instead of a Hurricane, I just had to paint the spinner black instead of red...because that's what was shown on the respective box arts. Later, I got the 1:24 Messerschmitt 109, spending Christmas holiday assembling and painting it. The mottle camouflage was done with a cut down paintbrush - a trick I got from one of the Airfix catalogues. When completed, it was "flown" into the living room, where my father criticised my dreadful painting, just proving that he didn't know mottle camouflage, and possibly models, at all. Moving up a bit, I built the Monogram Enterprise that even at the time I found wanting in detail, but then I could compare it to my friend's Otaki kit. He finished his Enterprise a lot better than I finished mine, but he later gave up on modelling. Back in 1981 Tamiya released their 1:32 F-14 which I swore to get even if I had to buy it myself. 460 Norwegian Kroner was a lot of money for a 16 year old back then. Today the kit sells for about 1300 NOK (approximately £100) which still isn't cheap. It was started at Christmas Eve, and completed three months later. Not only was it the most expensive model kit I ever bought, but it was also the first one I airbrushed - using the simplest and cheapest Badger Spray gun. Not really knowing the proper ratios for thinning, I went through four tinlets of Humbrol 64, gradually building up the paint thickness to the point where I had to rescribe panel lines (also a first). The clerk in my local modelshop asked me if I was painting a house when I came back to buy more paint. These models have certainly made an influence - I have the Hurricane and the Messerschmitt in the collection, hoping to finish them to a higher standard than last time, the Tamiya Enterprise with a scratchbuilt hangar deck will hopefully be finished in a diorama refuelling a Dragon Spruance, and another F-14 is in the box along with decals and photoetch, just waiting for Christmas Eve 2001... Having recently completed a Macchi 205 and a Seafire Ib, my next aim is to finish a car for the Norwegian Challenge in September. This is a cars only competition, and even if I don't count myself as a car modeller first and foremost, it is fun beating the "real" car modellers at their own game:) After that, the focus changes to Scale Modelworld 2001, where I hope to finish my HMS Howe conversion from Tamiya's King George V. I should be able to complete Alan Shepard's game of lunar golf in a month or so, and then, you know what's next... Jens PS: Cost cutting on plastic? If like me you have more kits than you'll likely ever to build; don't buy any more kits and resin and photoetch.:) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Marc Flake Subject: Tornado misses Mansfield listmembers Just wanted to let everyone know that Ed Gruen, his family, my family and I are ok. Many of you may know Ed and I live in Mansfield, Texas, and I understand that CNN is broadcasting the fact that we had a tornado last night. We're getting buzzed by every news helicopter in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. Lots of damage around us, broken limbs, shingles ripped off roofs. About 100 yards east of me a house under construction collapsed. No damage here. I can look out my second story window and see the trail the tornado took through our neighborhood. It must have been airborne for most of the trip as the damage is mostly to roofs and fences. Ed has a friend who lives a couple of blocks east of me who had pieces of their fence crash through their windows. I was home alone with the kids and had several anxious moments after the lights went out and the tornado warning sirens went off. After the tornado that passed by about 4 milies north of here 13 months ago, we're beginning to think we're living in a tornado prone area. Even more than just living in Tornado Alley. Marc P.S. On top of all that, Ed's server is down, so he can't post on the Internet for a while. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Kriegsmarine Radio Call Signs Hello, A buddy of mine asked me about radio call signs for major Kriegsmarine units. Are there any resources out there that give them? Did they typically fly signal flags indicating their call letters when leaving or entering port in peacetime? Thanks in advance for any help. Kurt SeaPhoto Maritime Photography www.warshipphotos.com Now taking credit cards via Paypal! Warship Models Underway www.warshipmodelsunderway.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Chris Hughes" Subject: Re: Walrus You could try visiting the Fleet Air Arm museum website at: www.fleetairarm.com I spoke to them on the phone some weeks ago and one of their photography conservation staff deals with queries from modellers. HTH Chris Hughes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Ron Hillsden" Subject: Cost Cutting on Plastic Styrene is used by signmakers. You can remove the paint from some old signs using alcohol. However, if you go to a plastics shop, they will have styrene sheets about 2 feet by 3 feet in sizes from .010 to .060. Cost is about Cdn$7 per sheet (less than US$5). Ron Hillsden Victoria BC Canada Club: http://members.home.net/vmss/ Flags: http://members.home.net/ron-hillsden/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: first ship kit From: "Kevin W. Woodruff" >> My first ship kit was done when I was 12 to enter in our school's 6th grade model show. I fell in love with Revell's USS Olympia . . . It was later destroyed by younger brother when he got mad at me. I built it again when I was a senior in high school and my mother destroyed it when she got mad at me. I am now building it for the third time << If you are in the market for a wife, I would like to introduce to a lady who frequents the local land fill . . . she used to be married to a fellow who models. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume