Subject: SMML VOL 1242 Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 03:58:03 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: First Kits 2: Re: steel plate 3: Re: Captain E.L.Beach 4: Re: USS Wasp - aircraft composition 5: Paddle to the Sea 6: Parrot Feathers 7: First Model 8: AK/Liberty Ship Deck Cargo 9: Re: Origin of the name Yamato 10: Re: Nichimo and Doyusha addresses needed 11: First Kit/On the work bench/Revell Germany Rheindampfer Goethe 12: Memory Lane - Paddle to the sea ... 13: Re: Wasp's air group 14: Re: Model Art 561 Warship colour: missing table translations 15: Re: Are there models of ... 16: Re: Are there models of ... 17: Alternative Plastics 18: Re: Origin of the name Yamato 19: Re: Origin of the name Yamato -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Edd Pflum Subject: Re: First Kits I think I was 7 when I built my first plastic model. It was a Model T sedan from the (long, long gone) Revell "Old Timers" series. My father built some models before I got old enough, and I ruined enough (all) of them while playing with them for him to buy me a kit of my own to build. As they say: "The first hit is free." That got me hooked. Dad stopped building, but I continued...forever. The first ship model I remember is the Lindberg PT boat (the 1:64 scale one, not the 1:32 version). It wasn't "PT 109" back then because nobody had heard of JFK yet!. There was no deck molding, the deck was a piece of cardboard printed in tan planking with the parts locations marked out. It wasn't very successful because the tube glue didn't hole the parts on to the cardboard very well. Or maybe it did, but the cardboard tore during play. I don't recall, but I know it was reduced to parts soon after. The next Lindberg PT I got had the plastic deck. The corner store had a large selection of solid wood airplane kits for 5 cents to 50 cents. These were the aforementioned balsa blocks and plans, but they had good cover art. I wasted many weekly allowances buying kits based on the art (Gee, I want one of those!") only to be abandoned as too difficult. I don't recall even starting one of these kits (though I must have), but I know I never finished one. If I only had them now I'd be a millionaire. My favorite ship models in those years were aircraft carriers because you could play with the little planes. They were NEVER glued to the deck. As an aside, I remember the following types: F6F Hellcat, AU Corsair, AD Skyraider, F9F Cougar, F2H Banshee, FJ (-3?) Fury, A3D Skywarrior, A4D Skyhawk, F8U Crusader and F4H Phantom. Most of these were from the Revell Essex and Midway kits. Happy days... Edd Westmont, IL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Re: steel plate >> I looked at a couple of plans I have that show plating expansions for US warships. It looks like most plating was 8 feet wide and cut into either 10, 20, or 30 foot sections. Length varied quite a lot depending on where the plate was, but MOST of it was 8 feet wide. Thickness are given in pounds per square foot, 12 lbs = 1/4" , 25 lbs = 1/2" etc << Thanks David, The 8, 6 or 5 foot width steel plate dimension should get me going for most purposes. The length will be what any sensible builder can get away with to minimize the work. As usual I never really give such matters much thought until I want to reproduce something in scale and there is the realization that the proportions should be there to make it pleasing to the eye. Its like walking into a new scene. If something doesn't belong I notice but can't quite put my finger on it. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: aandmblevins@att.net Subject: Re: Captain E.L.Beach To all who have enjoyed Captain Beach's books, You may be interested in reading his latest book "Salt and Steel; Reflections of a Submariner" published by the Naval Institute Press. It is a great read. Al Blevins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: James Corley Subject: Re: USS Wasp - aircraft composition >> In expectation of receiving my Corsair Armada 1/700 Wasp (any week now), can anyone tell me what aircraft she was operating at the time of her loss? My guess would be F4F's, Dauntlesses and... Avengers? Were the carriers still operating Devestators for torpedo squadrons after Midway? << Here is the airwing aboard on 24AUG42, just 20 days before her loss on 14SEP42: VF-71 28 F4F-4 LCDR Courtney Shands VS-71 18 SBD-3 LCDR John Eldridge VS-72 18 SBD-3 LCDR Ernest Snowden VT-7 15 TBF-1 LT Henry Romberg JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "muirandmuir" Subject: Paddle to the Sea Folks, This SMML stuff sure works a treat! Posted yesterday, responses with leads to where to get one this morning, ordered a copy by morning tea, expect delivery in a couple of days ex USA. Many thanks to all in this chain...made my week and will make my month when this inspirational little tome arrives. Thanks again and regards, David M -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Parrot Feathers I'm back online after server problems and the nearby tornado. There's nothing like a power outage in the midst of a severe storm to help you determine that the batteries on your radio are shot. I'e been busy reviewing the last group os postings. More updates to follow. Rusty wrote in SMML1237 about Parrot Feathers. One of my vices in my prior life - BK (Before Kids) was fly fishing & fly tying. Parrot feathers are in great demand by flytyers, especially for use on the classic Salmon patterns. If you want some feathers from a pet store parrot you're going to have to wrestle (or Rusty - is that pronounced "rassle") them away from the fur & feather people. Don't discount the fly tying material section as an aid to your ship modeling. The benefits of invisible thread and fine leader material have been discussed here before. The smallest hooks, with the bends clipped off, make great eye bolts for tying off lines, and hackle pliers make good weights to supply tension on a line while the glue dries. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "David" Subject: First Model This is an interesting thread! The first model I remember trying to build was a little horse-drawn fire engine, must have been about 1949. I got the spindly wheels on crooked, used so much model cement (wow! what a neat smell!) they wouldn't turn, and then tried to paint it. The result was such a catastrophe that was ashamed of it and put it in a drawer. It was the SECOND model I built that significantly changed my life. This was about six months later; I was about 9 years old, and somebody bought me Revell's "Missouri" kit. Maybe I got too much glue around the edge of the main deck (I remember how the sides of the hull got streaked with it), but this was Way Cool, anyway! All those AA guns, so easy to glue on, and I think my dad helped me flatten the pins under the turrets with a hot screw driver, so they actually turned! Then I got a bottle of testors red enamel (10 cents!) and masked the hull with scotch tape and painted the bottom. The moment when I peeled off that tape and saw a reasonably straight boundary between the gray and red, I was hooked for life. That model sat on its stands for a couple months, but then I couldn't resist cracking them off and taking the Mighty Mo into the bathtub with me. Glad I did! The fact that you can still buy this kit and build it with your children or grandchildren is one of the Happy Thing about life in America. David Hackley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: AK/Liberty Ship Deck Cargo In a post in SMML1236, titled Liberty Ship Conversion, Chris wrote about deck cargo. Let me refer you to an interesting site. Its the US Army Signal Corps Image Library for the Hampton Roads [Virginia] Port of Embarkation (HRPE). The site is hosted on a Virginia library system server. The link below dumps you on the main search page. http://eagle.vsla.edu/signal.corps/ I found this site by following a link on the IronShipwrights page. (Thanks Jon & Ted!) Besides having photos of colonels and lesser known generals on reviewing stands watching War Bond parades, there is an immense amount of information on the handling. loading and storage of military cargo & materiel. [How does a pair of deuce-and-a-halfs look when they're double stacked? How were the stalls for General Eisenhower's horses arranged?] There are some interesting detail shots - for example the 5 kill marks on the funnel of the SS Louisa May Alcott - indicating the 5 shoot-downs that her armed guard gun crews were credited. I was even able to locate photos of my father's ship, the USS Oberon (AK-56/AKA-14) taken immediately before departure and after the return from the Torch landings in North Africa. Two months at sea had an amazing affect on the paint! There are a lot of people shots, no photos of warships (the naval base at Norfolk is further down river), and some photos of APs, AKs, Liberty Ships and some small auxiliaries. Bookmark the link for a place to go and search around sometime while the paint dries. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: Origin of the name Yamato I believe 'Yamato' is an ancient name for the country of Japan with quite a bit of national/spiritual significance. As for references to back this up, I think 'A Glorious Way to Die' and/or 'Reqiuem for Battleship Yamato' may have this tidbit of info. I have read about this origin of the name in several different books (most of which I cannot remember now...) Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Mitsuaki Kubota Subject: Re: Nichimo and Doyusha addresses needed Hub, The recent address of Nichimo and Doyusha (as far as I remember) is Nichimo 135 Kubo-Chou, Sano City, Tochigi, Japan, 327-0845 Doyusha 4-27-21 Arakawa, Arakawa-Ku, Tokyo, Japan, 116-0002 Best regards, Mitsuaki Kubota http://www.hig.tocolo.or.jp/hmdock/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Skidmore, Jonathan" Subject: First Kit/On the work bench/Revell Germany Rheindampfer Goethe Hello everyone. I have been a reader of SMML for about four months and have learned a lot. Thank you all. My first kit I believe was the 1/700 (?) Lindberg Missouri. The one with about 6 parts to it. I still have it. It is painted sloppy with various glossy colors for camouflage. What remains is the deck and hull. I have my brothers kit which is unbuilt that someday between other models I will build for memoirs. Many of the other models I had built have survived as I have parents who save everything (there is sometimes a worthiness to pack rats). Many of them for years when I was not living at home and not building were subjected to many cat attacks. Parts that were broken off my parents dutifully kept. I have repaired many of them. Recently my childhood friend who we had built numerous kits side by side together, stopped by after 22 years. Upon seeing the old kits, it brought back a lot of memoirs for him. He recalled many of the models I had built and when I had. That visit was wonderful and filled in allot of gaps in my memoir. I am presently 90% done with the Revell Germany Trinity Lightship. Very interesting subject. In addition, I have almost completed the 1/600 Heller sailing ship L'Occidental and have just begun the Heller Thornier. Someday hope to begin the Revell Olympia. Has anyone ever built the Revell Germany Rheindampfer Goethe? If so, does it come out beautiful? Is it worth it. I do not have one and have been searching for one. Thank you for all your great advice and discussion. Jon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Ned Barnett" Subject: Memory Lane - Paddle to the sea ... >> Ah, memories. This is the first book I can remember, maybe 1945. The story of the little Indian in the canoe made me want to follow him. He started in Canada, near Lake Nipigon and went east, eventually to France. From North Dakota, Minnesota and Wisconsin I finally followed him to the sea, but went the other way, to San Francisco, in 1962. He drifted, I hitchhiked. I found a copy of the book at the Wisconsin Maritime Museum in 1999. It is still in print, published by Houghton Mifflin, ISBN 0-395-29203-4. And just as inspiring as I remembered. << Good gosh - I remember reading that book maybe a hundred times ... wow, thanks, Gary! What a wonderful reminder of a simpler time ... Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Paul Fontenoy" Subject: Re: Wasp's air group At the time of Wasp's loss the carrier's air group was VF-71 28 F4F-4 VS-71 18 SBD-3 VS-72 18 SBD-3 VT-7 15 TBF-1 These strengths are NOMINAL and the squadrons may have deployed a few more or less. Paul E. Fontenoy Curator of Maritime Research North Carolina Maritime Museum *The opinions expressed here may not reflect those of my agency* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: wem Subject: Re: Model Art 561 Warship colour: missing table translations Hi Gernot, Very useful material. Thanks for the translation. One query: >> Table on P.39: Number : Common Name : Revised Munsell Code : Notes << Does the Revised Munsell Code refer to the 1942 revision to the 1929 Munsell Book of Color, or to the current (revised) Munsell Book of Color? John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys TTY at White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: wem Subject: Re: Are there models of ... >> The USS Alaska / USS Guam? << Yes: 1/700 kits in resin by Samek, and 1/350 resin kits by Classic Warships and Iron Shipwrights. We stock the Samek kits. >> A 5" 38 - equipped DE from WW-II (not a post-war mod)? << Again, yes: Skywave W-17, John C. Butler class, and Skywave W-18, Rudderow class. We stock both. John Snyder, TTY White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: drwells@hogpb.mt.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: Are there models of ... Ned Barnett wrote: >> The USS Alaska / USS Guam? << Yes, but only in resin. Classic Warships makes both a 1/350 and a 1/700. Samek makes it in 1/700, and Iron Shipwrights makes a 1/350. >> A 5" 38 - equipped DE from WW-II (not a post-war mod)? << I believe Skywave makes a 1/700 Rudderow class in polystyrene. It was fairly expensive for a little 1/700 polystyrene kit, if I recall correctly. Lindberg makes a much cheaper 1/300 kit. While it is one of Lindberg's more salvageable kits, you'll have your work cut out for you. It has ugly raised panel lines all over the place, and all the guns need serious work. They also make a smaller kit, (1/535? 1/600?) that might be easier to fix. Iron Shipwrights apparently sells a 1/350 resin kit as well. I guess it depends on how much you're willing to spend, and how much fixing you're willing to do. In general, the more you spend, the less fixing you have to do. I've never seen either the Skywave or the ISW kits out of the box, but I'd bet they require little to no correction. David R. Wells "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | AT&T Middletown, NJ Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | http://home.att.net/~WellsBrothers/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Alternative Plastics An inexpensive alternate to "store bought" sheet plastic is to make your own from fiberglass. I make my own sheet plastic material by taking a sheet of perfectly flat plate safety glass, coating it with mould release (PVA sprayed on with an airbrush) or by simply placing a sheet of wax paper on top of the glass to protect it from the catalyzed layup resin in the next step. You then brush a coating of catalyzed gel-coat on the plate glass or waxed paper and allow it to cure to a tacky consistency. This is followed by a layer of catalyzed resin and an appropriate weight of fiberglass cloth, depending on the thickness needed. The resin-soaked cloth is well rolled onto the surface with a fiberglass lay-up roller and allowed to cure to tackiness. Next, put another coating of resin followed by a final gel coat when the last resin coat is cured to a sticky consistency. Place another piece of plate glass, treated with PVA or a piece of wax paper, over the final wet gel coat and allow to cure as a fiberglass layup sandwhiched between two sheets of plate glass. When the layup is fully cured, separate the glass and fiberglass sandwhich and you have a custom sheet of perfectly flat raw material for making decks and superstructures. To save money, I use the plain-vanilla white gel coat and buy my fiberglassing materials from a shop that specializes in fiberglassing supplies. You can make your sheets paper-thin to as thick as you need by varying the thickness or weight of the fiberglass cloth or the number of layers of fiberglass cloth in the layup. You can also omit the gel coat for a more flexible sheet for making curved items like funnels or gun tubs. One thing you need to be careful of if using waxed paper in leiu of mold release on the plate glass is that, if any resin bleeds over the edges of the waxed paper and gets onto the glass, you will end up with an inseparable molding once it sets up between the layers and firmly "glues" the plate glass sheets together. I use a tapered wooden clay artist's spatula as a wedge when working between the plate glass sheets to separate the glass from the sheet plastic layup. Using any metal wedge greatly increases the chance that you'll chip the glass edge. Pre-treating the inside surfaces of the plate glass with special high-temp paste wax mould release before spraying with the PVA also helps to make the glass easier to part after the layup is cured. Use only plate safety glass as, if it breaks during the separating process after the layup is cured, you have less chance of injury and ALWAYS wear safety glasses when separating the mould. This plastic material is easily glued with cyano or epoxy and can be worked with the normal tools used for cutting or sanding wood and plastic. Victor Baca MODEL SHIP JOURNAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Mitsuaki Kubota Subject: Re: Origin of the name Yamato Dear Mr. WRPRESS, The origin of name "YAMATO" is from the old place name means present Nara Prefecture (south-east of Osaka). In the ancient time (circa 4th century to 7th century), Yamato was a capital of Japanese emperor. Though his sovereignty didn't rule the whole land of Japan, the royal family of Yamato and their vassal are mightiest power of those days. So eventually the name "Yamato" itself had came to mean Japan. Most of Japanese battleship names came from old land name corresponding present prefecture. So the name "Yamato" was chosen in this sense. In addition the battleship should be most powerful vessel presenting the nation, so it was regarded suitable to name her after another name of Japan. (Also Fuso and Shikishima are other names of Japan.) Best regards, Mitsuaki Kubota http://www.hig.tocolo.or.jp/hmdock/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: drwells@hogpb.mt.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: Origin of the name Yamato WRPRESSINC@aol.com wrote: >> I know that this question has been raised before, but I cannot remember what the answer was. Can anybody tell me what the Battleship Yamato is named after. << I'm pretty sure that it was a pre-Meji prefecture in Japan. IIRC, the Japanese battleships were named after the pre-Meji prefectures, battlecruisers and heavy cruisers were named after mountains, light cruisers were named after rivers, and carriers were named after flying creatures, real or mythical. >> And could the reference be given that backs it up, I have money riding on the answer. << I used to have a list of all the pre-Meji prefectures that a net-friend from Japan gave me long ago, but I can't find it. A pity, as I'm interested in never-built and never-completed ships, and this list would be useful for naming models of things like the Super-Yamato class. Now, if someone could come up with a list of mountain names for the 13 class... David R. Wells "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | AT&T Middletown, NJ Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | http://home.att.net/~WellsBrothers/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume