Subject: SMML VOL 1244 Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 01:02:49 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: C&O Towboat 2: USS Newark??? 3: Re: USS Wasp - aircraft composition 4: Re: C & O 452 - Towboat 5: Re: Memory Lane - Paddle to the sea ... 6: Re: Are there models of ... 7: Re: C & O 452 - Towboat 8: Valient Names!! 9: Re: Falklands Frigates 10: Re: first ship 11: Re: Post Midway TBD's -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: SMMLcon 2002 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Book & Kit for Sale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: aandmblevins@att.net Subject: Re: C&O Towboat Have you tried the Dossin Museum at Detroit? Al Blevins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Chris Hughes" Subject: USS Newark??? Who the heck would give a warship an anagram as a name??? Must have been the Merchant Bankers ;0) Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: James Corley Subject: Re: USS Wasp - aircraft composition >> I read with some interest about the aircraft composition of the USS Wasp at the time of her loss on 24 August 1942, in SMML 1242 by James Corley. Though these unit's composition may have indeed been present at the time of her loss, there were always a little variance with ANY squadron's official assigned aircraft and what aircraft were really on hand.{snip} So, in conclusion, the Wasp had the following airgroup present, and not as stated by Mr. Corley: CWAG Lt.Cdr. Wallace M. Bleakley Flew VT-7 TBF VF-71 Lt, Cdr. Courtney Shands 32 F4F-4s (28)* [*, the number operational, but not counting the four (4) spare that were suspended from the hanger deck's roof.] VS-71 Lt. Crd. John Eldridge, Jr. 14 SBD-3s (14)* [*, not the (18) as quoted] VS-72 Lt. Crd. Ernest M. Snowden 14 SBD-3s (14)* [*, not the (18) as quoted] VT-7 Lt. Edward V. Wedell 10 TBF-1s (10)* [*, not the (15) as quoted] Utility Unit 1 J2F-5 (1)* [*, not even mentioned] << Harold, Did I claim these were the unit strengths on hand on the date of her loss.... NO. >> Here is the airwing aboard on 24AUG42, just 20 days before her loss on 14SEP42: << Apparently, you also have factual errors, but didn't even check what I had said. You stated the ship was lost on 24AUG, when both American and Japanese records clearly indicate her loss was on 14SEP. As for where each particular aircraft was spotted on deck, do you really know? Or are you simply relying on what you read in a book. My source was Morison, Volume V, published in 1949. I suppose it is possible that the 12 planes were lost in the Battle of the Eastern Solomons, and I did not include the ships plane primarily due to the fact that it is not part of the air wing, but also the lack of certainty concerning the presence and numbers/types assigned to USS WASP. By this point in the war, the air wing staff had taken to using operational combat aircraft for utility purposes and the SNJs, J2Fs and SOCs had been beached. Based on the fact that on 12SEP WASP unloaded ferried aircraft to Guadalcanal, I had made the general conclusion that the squadrons aboard had been reinforced at the same time as the Marine units were boarded in Noumea. Aircraft hung in the rafters were generally not included in the squadron totals until they were "claimed" by a squadron as attrition replacements. Was there only 4 wildcats hanging from the rafters? I find it hard to believe that there were at least no spare Dauntlesses, especially considering there were 4 wildcats to be left unused. I bet the VMF ashore would have like to have had those airframes. From: "Mike C" Subject: Wasp kit & Air Group >> As you may already know, the first batch of WASP kits has been sent to my distributors. I think I can safely state that it's the most accurate kit of the WASP (CV-7) currently on the market. ;-D I'd appreciate hearing any comments you may have about the kit. << How many will you have at Chicago?! Who has them now and for how much? >> 32- F4F-4 VF-71 (28 operable) LCDR Courtney Shands (Four of those were from VF-5, flown aboard by VF-71 pilots after she left port) 14- SBD-3 VS-71 LCDR John Eldridge 14- SBD-3 VS-72 LCDR Ernest M. Snowden 10- TBF-1 VT- 7 LT Edward V. Wedell 1- TBF-1 CWAG LCDR Wallace M. Beakley << Tsk, tsk ... you forgot to include the Duck! Terrible, the world will now end [sarcasm mode off] JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: C & O 452 - Towboat >> I have a model builder friend that is looking for either drawings of the Outboard Drives for the C & O 452 which was based at Port Huron, Michigan or photographs of the outdrives out of water. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. He is building a model of the PERE MARQUETTE 10 and the C & O 452 for the Port Huron Museum. << A good place to start looking would be the Chesapeake & Ohio Historical Society. Their web site is at: http://www.cohs.org/ You may have to call them to request a list of photos thay have available. I am not sure if you will have to be a member or not. They have a very large photo archive. Mike Settle I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: Re: Memory Lane - Paddle to the sea ... Further on this .. 'Paddle to the Sea' is also a National Film Board of Canada film. .. we were shown this numerous times through school. I never knew it was also a book. . learn something new everyday Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: Re: Are there models of ... Alaska I have an inbox review of the Samek 1/700 USS Alaska in the current issue of Internet Modeler Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: David Sepos Subject: Re: C & O 452 - Towboat Try contacting the Chesapeake & Ohio Historical Society: www.cohs.org Yes, I'm a model railroader too and have been a member of COHS for about 20 years now. The COHS is one of the premier RR historical societies in the US and has an EXTENSIVE collection of photos, plans, and information on all things C & O and Pere Marquette, including the car ferries. In fact, I believe I remember some articles in the COHS magazine over the past few years on ferry operations. It may behoove you to conduct your own research by taking a trip to the archives in Clifton Forge, VA and looking for what you need. The staff there is limited and requests must be quite specific and will probably take some time to fill. Good Luck! Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Valient Names!! >> Almost all the Royal Navy's ships have names that befit a man of war. Invincible, Inflexible, Vanguard, Dreadnought, Warspite, Akagi, Shark, Hornet, Wasp, and Enterprise are all fine names. << Hi; Now don't forget those 3 valient fighting ships on Lake Tanganyika in WWI. Such proud fighting names. HM Ships Mimi, Fifi, and Tou Tou!! I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist!! Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister http://www.egroups.com/group/WoodenWalls Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "M & R Brown" Subject: Re: Falklands Frigates Johnny Chen was after details of Type 21s in the Falklands. I have a photo of Alacrity back from the Falklands with the pennant numbers part showing. It seems to me that the paint covering it has mostly worn off as has the paint on her stem which is very dark. I doubt if any Falklands ships had their SCOT domes painted as it is against RN instructions to paint fibreglass items containing electronics as it affects the working of them. They are left "au naturel" and were moulded white. The current grey ones are moulded in grey. Ships didn't keep their SCOT domes. When a ship came in for refit they were taken off and put onto another vessel. Somewhere I have a photo of a Leander with one white & one grey SCOT dome. They took whatever they were given as the RN didn't have enough for all ships. Only those that were operational normally carried them Re Arrow, the photo I have of her in 1981 shows her with SCOT domes. She definitely had SCOT domes on her 1979 visit to Sydney. However, the photos of her in the Falklands show her without them. John Lippiett's book on the Type 21 shows Ardent heading for the Falklands with her pennant numbers painted out and with white SCOT domes. The only other black SCOT domes I have seen were on Sheffield when she was burning. Presumably the effect of fire (soot?) as before they were white. Ardent also was on fire so her domes could be soot covered. The first Type 22s, Broadsword & Battleaxe, definitely had different funnels to the rest of the Batch 1 Type 22s. Leo Marriott's book on the 22s shows them clearly. Michael Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Lou Meszaros Subject: Re: first ship There is a crazy bunch of guys around the U.S. that build WW1 and WW2 ships and then arm them with BB guns and fight and sink each other. This is not a hobby for a true scale enthusiast, however a few ships are highly detailed. Check out the web page at: www.modelwarshipcombat.com and judge for yourself. Anyone with questions please contact me off list. Regards, Lou Meszaros -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: Re: Post Midway TBD's David < wrote: >> All Devastators were withdrawn from combat after Midway. I think Saratoga (which was enroute to Midway right after the battle) had the first operational TBF squadron. << A recent article in (I believe) 'Proceedings'told the story of the lone surviving member of Hornet's Torpedo Eight. The squadron was split when Hornet sailed from the west coast and the ones left behind got transitional training on TBFs. They did not catch up with the ship in time to sail with her on the Midway mission so were sent to Midway itself. When they sortied to strike the Japanese attack force, all but one was shot down or unable to return to Midway. (So Ensign George Gay was not the only survivor from the squadron. Just the only one from Hornet's attacking force.) Thus Torpedo Eight was the first Squadron to be equiped with TBFs, if not the entire squadron. Now if I messed any of this up because I am working from memory, which becomes more selective every day, please correct me, gently. John Frohock USNSM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Keith Butterley Subject: SMMLcon 2002 Hi group, Assuming I can go, where is SMMLcon 2002 going to be? I seem to recall WR Press complaining about San Francisco being the land of fruits and nuts. Perhaps he and some other NY area SMMLies would like to host the event? Happy modeling Keith Butterley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Book & Kit for Sale Hi All, I have these for sale: 1) "U.S. Navy Markings/W.W.II Pacific Theater" by Thomas Doll. Softcover, with color photos on front and back, published in 1967, this book has 48 pages with lots of good photographs and drawings of markings of U.S. carrier aircraft in the Pacific, mainly by carrier or air group. Very handy reference for properly marking the aircraft on your CV, CVL, or CVE model. Very good condition. $20 plus shipping. 2) Skytrex 1/700 kit of the 36-gun frigate HMS Euryalus. White metal with extensive photoetch. Good instructions. From the new "Meridian Trafalgar" series recently reviewed in Plastic Ship Modeler. $21 plus shipping. Thanks, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume