Subject: SMML VOL 1264 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:44:31 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: What to see in London? 2: Pearl Harbour film 3: U.S.N. Ships 4: USS Montana design issues 5: Re: ICM's release of HMS Hood/IJN Chokai (NEVER) 6: Re: ICM Hood and Chokai releases 7: Tamiya 1:350 Fletchers 8: Re: Montana/Iowa vs N.Carolina? 9: Re: ICM Hood / Chokai 10: MYCO Japanese Warship plans @ Pacific Front Hobbies 11: Re: ICM Hood / Chokai 12: All Hands article 13: WW1 RN Battleship deck colours 14: Re: Kitbashing a Montana from an Iowa or North Carolina 15: Re: Pearl Harbor 16: Re: Pearl Harbor 17: Re: Livin' in infamy, babe... 18: Montana Class BB 19: Re: Montana class 20: Delphis / Modern Italian 21: New Hunley Model Kit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: andy vu Subject: What to see in London? Dear SMML fellows: I'm going to London beginning of June. Where can I find model shops and models of warships? I should appreciate any information you would give me. Thank you and have a good summer! Andy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) FROM: Mike Bartel(mkwb@excite.com) SUBJECT: Pearl Harbour film >> BTW, I'm very eager to see the Pearl Harbour movie (due out in Italy at the beginning of June), even if someone on this list has told that one of the two main characters will die at the end...:-) << Why are you giving away the ending? I heard that there is a big surprise climax- a surprise attack on the base by the Japanese and the US ships are sunk, precipitating the USA's entry into WW2. Wow!! Mike Bartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: U.S.N. Ships Cool ship photos http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/4042/index2.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Ed Grune" Subject: USS Montana design issues Hello SMMLies: To chime in on the Montana issue, the following link goes to the US Naval Historical Center's photo section. http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/usnshtp/bb/bb67.htm There are photos of builder's models and various design schemes for the ship that would have become the Montana class. Of interest is Design Scheme 1 hull, which is presented as compared to an IOWA class hull. (The superstructure shown is that of the IOWA) http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/s-file/s511-21.jpg Let the plans begin. Ed Mansfield, TX (Hoping he can get away from the in-laws for this weekend's IPMS North Central Texas/Squadron Scalefest show and flea-market. I have the USS Abinaki (ATF-96) completed and ready for entry). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Ed Grune" Subject: Re: ICM's release of HMS Hood/IJN Chokai (NEVER) The HMS Hood model was originally scheduled for release last year (2000). Never happened! Then it was rescheduled for release in April of 2001. ICM has not changed its "published" schedule, but all the words and news that heve been printed here and elsewhere have said that 'don't expect ICM to release its kit of the Hood any time soon.' Read that as NEVER. The last published release schedule had the Essex listed as November of 2001 - six to 7 months after the Hood. The Essex will probably be released 6 months after NEVER. The Chokai never was on a release schedule. It should be released 6 months after the Essex which would make it a year after NEVER!. There will be people who will be very happy for ICM to prove all this wrong. But don't hold your breath, because its going to be a very long wait. Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: ICM Hood and Chokai releases >> So has anyone heard when the Models of the Hood or Chokai are going on sale from ICM yet. I have seen several sites that are listing prices but none have them in stock yet. << Keep an eye on your nearest hog farm. When they begin sprouting wings, let us know and we can meet at the hobby shop to get our models. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. You can now pay using your Visa / MasterCard http://okclive.com/flagship/ "That's mighty bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Tamiya 1:350 Fletchers FYI, if you live in the Dallas/Ft Worth, TX area, and you're looking for one of these kits, the local Hobby Lobby here in Denton had about ten of them 2 days ago marked down to $12.99. I grabbed one a few weeks ago. Planned to grab another, but I recently got a new/used car that needs some work and I got laid off shortly thereafter, so funds are tight. As such, I thought I'd share the knowledge/wealth. Depending on your gas milage (36 miles north of D/FW), it might be a pretty good deal for you. I don't know if this is a move by all Hobby Lobbys or not. This particular store has had a stack of these kits for a couple of years now (at $37). They only recently marked them down because they weren't moving (not good news for the ship modeling business, but...). A few years ago, that's what I paid for a 1:700 Tamiya Fletcher at the same store (last one they had, it was getting knocked around, and I felt sorry for the poor little thing). This store also has reduced it's model inventory a great deal in the last year (down from three isles to one). Derek Wakefield PS: Ugh....forgot to give directions. The Hobby Lobby in Denton is located in the shopping center on the SE corner of I35E and Loop 288 -- across Loop 288 from Golden Triangle Mall. The address is...2217 S Loop 288. The phone number is...940-387-4471. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Montana/Iowa vs N.Carolina? >> Not to start a major thread but, according to Fahey's War and Victory Editions, it would appear to me that the Montanas were to be based more on the Iowas than the North Carolinas. The Montanas were to be "enlarged Iowas" with an additional 16/50 turret. Iowas were 887"3" in length and 108' in beam at 52,000T; N.Carolinas were 729'0" x 108'0" at 42,000T; Montanas were to be 903'0" x 120'0", to accomodate the fourth 16" turret at 58,000T. << You are all right. The Montana was the end result of all designs. The hull was to be like the North Carolina's, while the superstructure was something in between, and the armament was enlarged from the Iowa's. Pretty straight forward. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: ICM Hood / Chokai >> So has anyone heard when the Models of the Hood or Chokai are going on sale from ICM yet. I have seen several sites that are listing prices but none have them in stock yet. << Wake up from your dream!!!! I really dont think ICM got very far with the Hood, if it even was started at all. Chokai? I bet the box art is the only thing finished. Injection mold cutting is sooo expensive, I think this has a lot to do with the problem, versus sales. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: MYCO Japanese Warship plans @ Pacific Front Hobbies I thought I would let everyone know about the MYCO plan sets from Japan on Imperial Japanese Navy vessels, available thru Pacific Front Hobbies. I generally try to buy an average of one or two a month from Bill Gruner @ PFH. Since manufacturing (trying to, anyway) model kits and publishing books is my full time job, I need a new hobby, so I collect plan sets on ships. I dont bother to count how many I have now, after I went over 300. I recently received a bundle of MYCO plan sets from PFH, and was very impressed with their latest efforts. A new one was of the Shinano and was it ever detailed. Most of these plan sets are in 1/200, but recently they have started doing some of the destroyers in 1/125, which are great. One bit of news from Bill G. @ PFH is that MYCO will release a set of drawings on the aircraft carrier Kaga, which is a monumental event, as there have not been anything other than rudimentary drawings in the past. With the release of the Kongo class book that I just printed, I mentioned that drawings of all four of the ships, in various years are available from MYCO, thru Pacific Front Hobbies. One set that I just received was of Hiei in 1942. They are really great. Steve Wiper I am not paid to promote Pacific Front Hobbies, I do it because Bill Gruner makes the effort to bring in things like MYCO drawings that cannot be found elsewhere, and am damn glad he does. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Paul Lewis" Subject: Re: ICM Hood / Chokai I, have it on good authority (WEM) that ICM are in difficulty and have been for a while. The 1:350 HMS Hood has been advertised on several Model sites for nearly a year but I am still to see any that have received them. ICM are supposedly producing a 1:350 HMS Nelson for release later this year, but as the saying goes "don't hold your breath" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: " Jim Mc" Subject: All Hands article John, thanks for the post, I found it "interesting". I find it hard to believe that the amount of information that transpires during a battle can be quickly and accurately assimilated into electronic media, can you see the look on someon'e face when an admiral/general, other big kahoona says "bring up the web page on 401st teenth fighter squadron!", and up pops playboy.com? At the end of the day, people still are the ones who wage war, men pull the trigger(or should that now be push the button?) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Ken Hoolihan Subject: WW1 RN Battleship deck colours Steve, George, Thanks to both of you for your help with deck colour info for my model of HMS Lion. It is this sort of cooperative spirit which makes this a great e-mail group. Thanks again guys. Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Ken Hoolihan Subject: Re: Kitbashing a Montana from an Iowa or North Carolina Derek, The biggest problem your friend would have in making a convincing Montana Class BB using either a stretched Iowa or North Carolina is the beam. Unlike the earlier US BB's with their 108' beam, the Montanas were not intended to pass through the Panama Canal and would have been 12' more beamy. In 1/700 scale this amounts to 2/10ths of an inch - in other words a lot. In a nutshell, if you want to make a decent Montana you need to either scratchbuild a new hull or do some major surgery to an Iowa hull (best of luck). As a further alternative, if I remember correctly, there was a Montana resin kit available at one time from Imperial Navy. Getting one of those would make life a whole lot easier. Cheers Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor Hi Here is a list of the cruisers, destroyers,and subs at Pearl Harbor 0n 12/7/41. Allen DD-66, Aylwin DD-355, Bagley,DD-386, Blue DD-387, Breese DM-18, Cachalot SS-170, Case DD-370, Cassin DD-372, Chew DD-106, Conyngham DD371, Cummings DD365, Dale DD-353, Detroit CL-8, Dewey DD-360, Dolphin SS-169, Downes DD-375, Farragut DD-348, Gamble DM-13, Helena CL-50, Helm DD-388, Henley DD391, Honolulu CL-48 Hull DD-350, Hulbert AVD-6, Jarvis DD-393, MacDonough DD351, McFarland DD-237, Monoghan DD-354, Montgomery DM-17, Mugford DD389, Narwhale SS-167, New Orleans CA-32, Patterson DD-392, Perry DMS-17, Phelps DD-360, Phoenix CL-46, Preble DM-20, Pruitt DM-22, Raleigh CL-7, Ralph Talbot DD-390, Ramsey DM-16, Reid DD-369, San Francisco CA-38, Schley DD-103, Selfridge DD-357, Shaw DD-373, Sicard DM-21, St.Louis CL-49, Tautog SS-199, Thornton AVD-11, Tracey DM-19, Trever DMS-17, Tucker DD-374, Ward DD-139, Wasmuth DMS-15, Worden DD352 and Zane DMS-14. I have no idea as to planes present that day. I hope this is of use for you Erik. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor >> What American forces was present at Oahu on the 7 of Dec. 1941. The battleships is easy to find, but what about cruisers and destroyers? submarines? How many airplanes was on the island and what type? << I know that a few destroyers were present, but the attacking force concentrated mainly on the battleships and the airfield. The carriers, of course, were out, much to the disappointment of the Japanese admirals. In my mind, two big mistakes: they didn't touch the submarines & submarine base, nor did they strike the fuel tank farms. The fuel was a precious commodity that would have crippled operations for months had it been destroyed. The submarines later destroyed over 60% of the essential Japanese merchant fleet, and many key military ships, including 8 aircraft carriers. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: PolTexCW@aol.com Subject: Re: Livin' in infamy, babe... >> There are plenty of Academics and Historians--say, like David Irving--who hide behind degrees and scholarly sanctification to promote their skewed views and deliberately hide or distort anything that questions those views. In short, having spent a little time in Academia--merely as a pupil--and a long time in this business, I wouldn't grant either the average Professor or the average Producer sway over the other for inherent "truth" or "fairness". << Hoist by your own petard! David Irving is not and never has been an academic, is a self-appointed "historian". has no degrees (in history at least) and is only a "scholar" by his own definition. Get real. The worst scholarly work is transcendentally superior to the best "production". Scholars survive by impressing their colleagues. Producers survive by selling product. Not an unworthy goal in itself, but having no concern with accuracy. John Biskupski -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) FROM: Mike Bartel (mkwb@excite.com) SUBJECT: Montana Class BB I suppose there are those wondering when I would chime into this thread, having been the only manufacturer to produce a Montana kit in 1:700. Well, here goes. The Montanas were NOT just 'enlarged Iowas', as their raison d'etre and form were quite different, even from the outset. The hull form was based more on the Yamato than on any previous US battle ship, with antitorpedo bulges and sloping armour. The Garzke and Dulin dimensions are accurate, but the drawings are too wide when scaled to 1:700. In the end, I based my IHP kit on several sources, but decided to include parts for the earlier superstructure. Since AA fit was undecided when designed, I left out the AA gun fit entirely, and the modeler can certainly take artistic license for this when building the ship, in any scale. If you want to build a Montana in 1:700 or 1:350 (or any modeling scale, for that matter), SCRATCHBUILD the hull. DO NOT KITBASH IT. If you want a truly accurate model, heed these words. You need to do this in order to get the hull contours correct. If you can find an IHP 1:700, hull, follow that one, because it is 100% accurate in detail, contours and dimensions. Then, use the best available kit of the Iowa class in your chosen scale to get your small parts, aircraft, and main guns. SCRATCHBUILD the superstructure if you want the as-designed fit, or you can use the Iowa superstructure (bridge) to represent the probable redesign (to be consistent with the Iowas) after entering service. Personally, I prefer the 'as-designed' superstructure look, as it distinguishes these ships from any earlier design. Other parts you can easily scratchbuild. Photoetch will take care of the rest, and there is plenty of it in 1:700 and 1:350. If you're wondering why I don't just re-release the Montana kit, it is because there is not enough interest anymore to justify the large numbers I would have to run (hundreds), and I don't want to produce cancelled ship kits anymore. Of course, if I got 100 emails with money in hand ready to buy, I would reconsider quickly............. Hope this information helps. You can email me if you have further questions. Mike Bartel IHP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: isublett@home.com Subject: Re: Montana class Hasn't Imperial Navy released a 1/700 model of Montana which Pacific Front or somebody might carry? Certainly, from looking at Friedman's American Battleships the idea of bashing it from Washington is vaguely possible. You can't do it from the Iowas, their hull is much too specialized. It's what you need to do to a Washington to get to 33 knots. Pirie Sublett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Donald Bridge Subject: Delphis / Modern Italian Hi Guys Does anyone know which periods the Delphis kits of Aquila, Miralia, & HMS Hermes are represented in. Also with regard to the Montecuccoli the only references I have been able to find about this vessel later in it's life is it's conversion to a cadet training ship in 1947 and being discarded in 1964. Does anyone know anything different about this vessels later incarnations. Finally Apart from the G. Garibaldi and the Minerva Corvettes are there any other post 60's Italian vessels available. Thanks Don Bridge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Edwparent@aol.com Subject: New Hunley Model Kit Any of you SMMLies interested in Civil War or submarines will love this new 1/32 scale updated version of H.L.HUNLEY, the recently excavated hand cranked sub that was the first to sink an enemy ship in wartime (1864). I have recently completed a model from this new kit and find that it exactly matches the features recently found on the actual excavated vessel. Truly a rivet counter's dream! I put mine on a brass rod stand without the scale figures. To see a picture of the model check it out on: http://cottage-industries.com Ed Parent -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume