Subject: SMML VOL 1267 Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 22:37:31 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: HMS Aurora 2: wait there is more Pearl Harbo(u)r.. Nat Geo special 3: Baloney ICM Demise and negative comments 4: USS WOLVERINE/USS SABLE 5: BB63 Missouri - Admiral Dewey's Flag 6: One ICM Answer 7: Latest info on upcoming Squardron ship In Action releases 8: American flag on MISSOURI 9: Re: ICM & NEGATIVE WAVES 10: Re: Livin' in infamy, babe... 11: Places to see in London 12: Arizona 13: HMS Hood 14: We modelers don't have fun at movies 15: BB-63 Missouri Flag 16: Russian Torpedos & Supercavitation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Converting Revell Flower Class to R/C 2: Re: SMML Washington DC -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "graham and melanie" Subject: HMS Aurora Can anyone in the US give me the link for the hobby site which stocks this kit please. thanks graham -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: wait there is more Pearl Harbo(u)r.. Nat Geo special Hi you all... Sat and watched the Ballard doco on the search for the Japanese mini-submarine at Pearl Harbor, the one attacked by the Ward. Found myself intensely focused on the interviews with the survivors, especially moving was the former Arizona crewman who is dieing of stomach cancer, finally talking about his traumatic experiences and his escape from his old ship on this his first visit to the memorial. He was not alone amongst the survivors interviewed finding it hard to keep back their tears, very moving to watch these men. Some nice shots of old footage of the Arizona, they also interviewed a N/Geo photographer who was taking shots of the remaining turret on Arizona for an issue of the magazine. The photographs, taken through all the murk and muck, of the three 14 inch barrels were very spooky/atmospheric .... or just plain frighteningly ghostly! Aside to that got chatting to a sailor (yeah yeah no jokes!) from the carrier Kittyhawk this morning, a bloke from West Virginia who was glad to be off the ship.. was really sold on Australia that he went down to the local fire brigade to enquire about joining the NSW Fire Brigade service! regards Simon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Ray Boorman" Subject: Baloney ICM Demise and negative comments You might want to give ICM the benefit of the doubt on HMS Hood. So far ICM have delivered all the models they said they would. I build wwi and Russian Aircraft and lately (blame a certain Mr Pearson) ships. ICM's models are and have been very good, with the exception of a certain Fokker. They usually have been well worth waiting for. As to release dates anyone who has been building models for a few years knows these are to be taken with a grain of salt. Release dates are a bit like how long you think a model will take to build usually out by factors of 1 to a very large number. As a last comment please don't say a company is having difficulties unless you heard it from the owners themselves. Not on good authority or heard it from some such etc. It can damage small cottage industry companies and help make truth what was completely inaccurate. Regards, Ray Boorman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Matthew Prager" Subject: USS WOLVERINE/USS SABLE I'm looking for information and drawings concerning USS WOLVERINE (IX-64) and USS SABLE (IX-81), which were training carriers operated by the USN during WWII. These two ships were paddlewheel aircraft carriers converted from Great lakes merchnat vessels and operated on the Great Lakes to tain pilots in carrier landings. I have a couple of photos but really need some drawings or hull lines. I'm thinking of building one of the two ships in 1/700. Hope someone can help. Matt Prager -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: dlfowler@apple.com Subject: BB63 Missouri - Admiral Dewey's Flag >> Japanese surrender photos of the bridge area of the Missouri show an American flag displayed behind what looks like glass. What is the significance of this flag? << That was Admiral Dewey's flag that he flew when first opening Japan to the west. It was kind of a "rub their nose in it" thing. The reason that it is put up backwards is that when it was laid out on the glass in the frame it look correct. It was only after they got it up and there wasn't time to change it that they realized that they had been looking at the wrong side. >> Also Does anyone know when did Missouri had the blue paint removed from her decks? << They were blue at the surrender and scrubbed clean on her voyage back to the states. Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Ned Barnett Subject: One ICM Answer Ok, folks. Ship modelers are a small fraction of the number of other modelers, esp. if you consider only static/plastic ship modelers. However, ship modelers tend to be more well-heeled than tank-crazies or the flyboys (and girls). We tend to spend more - on kits, on after-market, etc. And right here, we have over 1,000 people who spend a lot of money (on average) on ships; I imagine that lots of us have bought the Koenig or Grosser Kurfurst, and others have been thinking about it. If each who has bought would send in their name; and if each who's thinking about it would buy - and then send in their names, we could have an impressive petition of ICM customers. That, sent to them as an indication of the strength of interest, might help. It would have to be compelling, if nothing else. If those of us connected to other online ship communities did the same, they might get several thousand names on petitions - something no retailer would ignore. However, this organized effort has to be supported by two things: 1. Sales - those who want more ICM ships have to go out and buy more of what's already available (as someone said, the Koenig had 4 sister ships). 2. Personal e-mails - petitions are nice, and impressive, but personal messages from individual customers have an even greater impact, since they reflect real effort. These should state: a. Your name b. How many ICM kits (and which ones) you've actually bought c. How many of which proposed ICM kits you'd actually buy d. Contact information so they could communicate back to you This will help. Finally, letters to the editor of ship model publications, praising ICM and advocating for new kits. They read these, and realize they have impact with potential customers. All the best Rabble-rousing Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Ed Grune Subject: Latest info on upcoming Squardron ship In Action releases I was at Squadron Mail Order today - as part of their Open House held during the IPMS-North Central Texas show. While there I was admiring the artwork of Squadron's cover artist Don Greer. Don is now selling prints of his cover paintings. I picked up a signed print of the Fletcher DD In Action cover. Contact Don care of Squadron. Anyway, thats not the story I started with. I was admiring Don's newest painting of the USS Baltimore, which will grace the cover of "Heavy Cruisers In Action - Volume 2". Look for it in September, according to Glen Phillips, one of the editors/writers for Squadron. Also in the works, with no publication dates are: Sumner/Gearing, 4-Pipe Destroyers, Landing Craft, Independence-class CVLs. There is also another On Deck/Walk Around in the works for the Lexington (now a museum in Corpus Christie, TX). Congratulations to Tristian Salomon for his WEM Mary Rose destroyer that took 1st in large ships and Best Ship. It was VERY nice. Doug Hogue took second with his BWN Yorktown and I placed third with my USS Abnaki. Marc Flake took first in 1:700 with his Skywave Miami-class (sorry Marc - forgot which it actually was). Doc Webber took second with a Delphis Italian auxiliary cruiser. I took first in Boats (PT et. al.) with a WEM 1:350 PT-109. (There you go Caroline - two firsts out of 2 entries). George Lewis places second and thirs with his Airfix LCM and Heller LCU. There was a very well done Old Steam Navy CSS Hunley in the scratch/conversion category. Its the master (maybe first-off mold is better). It is by stereolithography. It was very nice, much finer than the Lone Star offering. The modeler is John Harlow Mike Quan was there with his digital camera - maybe he can forward some pictures for the SMML website. Ed Mansfield, TX Congrats to all place getters ;-) Shane & Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: American flag on MISSOURI >> Japanese surrender photos of the bridge area of the Missouri show an American flag displayed behind what looks like glass. What is the significance of this flag? << According to the following reference: Sumrall, Robert F., "Warships Data #2 - USS MISSOURI (BB-63), Pictorial Histories Publishing Company, Missoula, Montana, 1999., the flag behind the glass case was, quote: "On the bulkhead behind them is Commodore Matthew C. Perry's flag, the first United States flag to fly over Japan". Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Member, Nautical Research Guild Tin Can Sailors -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SolidStump@aol.com Subject: Re: ICM & NEGATIVE WAVES >> I think if you want to see an ICM HOOD, CHOKAI, or whatever we need to vote with our wallets. Go buy another KOENIG!!!! Even if you haven't finished building the first one,Koenig had 3 sisters. Go get a model to convert to 1 of them. And if you Email ICM, be supportive. Whining about the lateness oftheir next kit helps no one. << I agree...I bought Koenig and Grosser Kurfurst. I always vote with my money. If the other "negative wavers" would do like you suggest, maybe things would change. I remember seeing notes on this list and "Warship" asking if the $85 model was worth it......those yo-yo's didn't even look far enough to find a discount price before complaining...and the complaints about a $125 price tag for a model like the Hood are nothing short of absurd. Tamiya was asking near $90 for Missouri ten years ago. BTW, I have nine 1/350 resin models, seven 1/350 injection plastic and a few more 1/400. I even bid on an IS Hood when it appeared on e-bay. That one went "north" fast! I almost bought the recent re-issue of the IS Hood but was holding out for a mid-2001 ICM issue (Sorry Andy and John...are there any left anyway???) Again, e-mail ICM. Ask them to finish the Hood, Chokai et al. Simon Scheuer Atlanta, GA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: PolTexCW@aol.com Subject: Re: Livin' in infamy, babe... >> The the "worst scholarly work is transcendentally superior to the the best "production", is not true << Perhaps. But your arguements are - being generous - silly. For example, the following: >> As for Irving, inspite of his beliefs, he is more of an historian than most of those with degrees in history. It is true that he appears to pick at small scabs to try and make them bleed and to look for material that supports his views. All good authors do this of course to some extent, it is endemic to the job, and any person who says differently is lying. This statement would seem to say that I believe that Irving is a good author; in many ways he is; he researches well with source material, makes efforts to obtain first hand interviews, and can actually put the words down in a very readable form. It is unfortunate that his goals are often a little dark. << David Irving is a liar and a scoundrel. He makes up sources, intentionally mistranslates documents and fabricates interviews. Much like a movie producer. A professional historian, for all the varied and sundry faults he may have - inability to write coherently, misinterpretation of sources, political and social biases - simply could not get away with this sort of thing. You might want to read _Lying about Hiler_ by Richard Evans. I find it somewhat helpful to have a vague idea of what I speak before I issue opinions. You too might find this posture helpful in the prevention of making yourself look silly. John Biskupski Hi all, Can we please take any further discourse on the above named author offlist please - I'd rather not give him any more free publicity here. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Ray Boorman" Subject: Places to see in London Someone was asking about models and shops to see in London. Greenwich and the Science Museum in Kensington have already been mentioned as far as musuems. However dont miss the Imperial War Museum. Big 15 Inch gun from a wwi battlecruiser outside and at least 10 years ago lots of great ship models inside. Its a great museum too ;) Then of course go to Foyles as in thee best book store bar none! If you get a chance also go to the RAF Museum in Hendon. They used to have a Stranrear and Sunderland..... Ray -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Arizona Need we even bother to wonder what inspired this one. ^_^ Well, I dragged my 10yr old Revell 1:426 kit off the shelf today, thinking it would be a good warm up for my California projects later down the road. After blowing the dust off it (and sneezing a dozen times) I took a gander to see what I might be able to do with it. Honestly, until I'm working again and can afford the brass, paint, new brushes, an airbrush, and an ace resin kit, about the only thing I can do is drill out portholes, chisel off the chains & paravane lines, and chop off rails -- which should take me awhile. However, after looking over a bunch of photos, well, it's question time. A) Am I correct in assuming the 5/51's were mounted in open casemates (rather than the turret like ones that came with the kit)? From the photos of her after the attack they appear to be of an open type. If so, what's the best way to tackle this to avoid the dreaded "see through". I haven't seen too many good pics of what the interiors of these spaces looked like. B) I plan to fab my own 5/51s, 5/25s, and 3/50s because the ones that come with the kit are butt ugly. Suggestions for a newby scratchbuilder as to how to do this would be much appreciated. Yeah, I know...get the plans from FD and an Ace resin kit...gotcha. It's the patterning of the masters that's worrying me. C) Okay...AFAIK, the forward 3/50s were removed at the time of PH pending installation of 1.1's. However, my mind's pulling a blank about the ones mounted on the main/lower deck. My brain is telling me, yes she still had those, but... D) My refs on this ship are few and far between. I know Stillwell's book is the authoritive historical volume, but (only having had a chance to thumb through it very briefly ten years ago) is it worthwhile for modeling this ship. Or...do I just need to contact FD for real plans again? E) I've got Mike Ashley's article on superdetailing the kit published way back when in FSM. Anything else that needs to be considered (that perhaps the kit doesn't include, does but just plain isn't right, etc). It will be modeled as she appeared at PH, so I know...no planes on the cats, measure 1 scheme, etc. FYI, My plan is to get a big chunk of styrofoam, cut the hull shape out of it, and build a shadow box around that so I can build it as a waterline without having to worry about chopping off or dealing with the inaccuracies of the lower hull. Yeah...that means water, which means add acrylic gel to the list of stuph to get. F) What type and how many .50 cals did she have at that time and where in hades were they mounted? I can't seem to find any good ref on this one. G) Rigging...never done it before, never even attempted it before, didn't really want to think about it until I saw Lorren Perry's fully decked out model, HEAALLLLP!!!!! H) Was the superstructure deck teaked like the main deck? The model doesn't indicate this, but looking at a photo of Lorren's '41 model it appears that he/you painted it as if it was, so now I'm really, really, confoozed. I) Awings...tissue paper soaked in white glue, right? And just about anything else that might be useful, s'alright (s'alright!) Thanks in advance. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: HMS Hood I got this note from Steve Bush at Maritime Books, anybody have any further information? 'A multi-million pound expedition is to hunt for the final resting place of the Battlecruiser HOOD in the North Atlantic. The expedition is due to get underway in June with live programmes on Channel 4 later in the summer.' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Henry T Chen" Subject: We modelers don't have fun at movies Hi SMMLies, While others simply enjoy the war movies, we who build models constantly look for how accurate the planes, the ships are in the movies. I'm not saying that's good or bad, but it's a 2nd nature of ours, and unfortunately I think sometimes that took a lot of fun out of seeing a movie. BUT I CAN"T HELP IT!!! I did that with Tora!Tora!Tora!, with Miday, with all the others, and I know I'll again when I go see Pearl Harbor!! Sigh.. Happy modeling everyone. Henry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Roger/Sharon Torgeson" Subject: BB-63 Missouri Flag Steve, The flag in the back ground is the 31 star flag flown from the flagship of Commodore Matthew C. Perry when his squadron steamed into Tokyo Bay, it was called Edo Bay then, in 1853. It was Admiral Halsey's idea. The story that is related in the book Battleship Missouri has it as seeing the flag was on the first visit to Japan. It was thought that it was time it was used again for another visit Roger Torgeson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Russian Torpedos & Supercavitation There has been quite a bit of talk on this board regarding the Kursk and the weapons she carried, so for those of you interested in modern submarine weapons, the May 2001 issue of Scientific American contains a feature article on supercavitating torpedoes. In addition to a disicussion of the hydraulic physics of supercavitation, the article contains quite a bit of history, the US Navy plans to catch up in this technology and futute plans for this class of weapons. If you can't get your hands on the hardcopy you can find the article at: www.sciam.com/2001/0501issue/0501ashley/ Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Ron Hillsden" Subject: Converting Revell Flower Class to R/C This subject has been discussed off and on, so I have added the conversion process as a 'tip' on my club's page. Just go to: http://members.home.net/vmss/ and click on tips, or direct to http://members.home.net/vmss/tips/flower.html Hope this will be useful. If anyone thinks I have missed something, tell me your experiences or ask you questions, and I'll attempt to update ... Ron Hillsden Victoria BC Canada Flags for R/C Ships: http://members.home.net/ron-hillsden/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: SMML Washington DC I haven't seen much on the list about the recent SMML meet in Washington, DC. I can't speak for the others but I had a great time. It was wonderful to see some of the outstanding ship model work and even more wonderful to put real faces on some SMML nicknames. I want to thank Mike for taking the time and trouble in getting it together and I nave already expressed my thanks to Chris at Nostalgic Plastic for hosting the affair and providing some munchies. Hope to see you all again and maybe a few more in the future. Cheers, Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume