Subject: SMML VOL 1268 Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 17:16:39 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Pearl Harbor film - comments on accuracy 2: Flags on Missouri at surrender ceremony 3: uss missouri flag 4: Re: ICM models 5: Re: HMS Hood expedition 6: Latest info on upcoming Squardron ship In Action releases 7: Lists 8: Revell Arizons 5" guns 9: Measure 1 at Pearl Harbor 10: Duane Fowler's Enterprise decals in Canada? 11: Revell of Germany's 1/72nd scale S-Boat 12: Re: Arizona: 5" gun deck 13: Re: American flag on MISSOURI 14: Re: ICM Hood and Chokai releases 15: Re: Latest info on upcoming Squardron ship In Action releases 16: Professionally trained historians 17: Re: Russian Torpedos & Supercavitation 18: Scharnhorst 19: I need a 1/350 40mm gunsight! 20: Australian Naval Ensign 21: H.M.S Vanguard post WWII battleship 22: Adm. Dewey's flag....huh? 23: Re: HMS Hood Expedition (from HMS Hood Association) 24: Inside MK IX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Re: SMML Wash.DC 2: Squadron ScaleFest -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor film - comments on accuracy >> There are some incredible panoramic action shots of Battleship Row that (except for oddly missing the Light Gray upperworks of the Measure 1 camouflage - maybe I mis-saw that) << It was there one some of the ships, but it looked white to me. As for the scenes with the post-war ships still in, I will excuse that as a problem due to temporal displacement. I would have liked to have seen them covered with CG period vessels, but oh well. My main gripe with the accuracy was the bombing sequence. The Arizona didn't get hit first. The classic overhead of Battleship Row was taken from the horizontal bombers which dropped the bombs that did Arizona in. This photo clearly shows Oklahoma being at about a 30 degree list and within minutes of fully capsizing. The horizontal bombers were the last group to attack. At least they got the fake bow wave on Oklahoma and Nevada. As for the carrier scene, did you notice the shot with the planes launching from the stern of the Lex, to simulate the port side island of two of the IJN carriers. On the other hand, the long shot of the IJN attack group looked to be all AKAGI just pasted at odd intervals. Another problem was the oiler steaming with the "Hornet" .... a much later development! As for the aircraft, the Spitfires were all MkV airframes, a little later than BoB MkIs, but that is what is restored. THe markings were accurate, The Bf109 looked like Es, some of which were in use by late 1940. The P-40 used for most of the flying shots looked like a late-war M, but once again you use what you've got. AFAIK, there are no P-40Bs flying today, but the "models" they used on the runway were P-40Bs, to their credit. My rating (scale of 1-10) SFX 9.5 Military Accuracy (equipment used/depicted) 8 Historical Accuracy 4 Love Interest Storyline 7 (MY wife and daughter really liked that part) Overall 6 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: David Sepos Subject: Flags on Missouri at surrender ceremony To answer a previous question on the SMML board..... Taken from Rain of Ruin by Donald M. Goldstein, et. al. The flag flown on the Missouri was the same that had flown over the Capitol Bldg. on 12/7/41, and previously flown at the Casablanca, Rome, and Berlin surrender ceremonies. The encased flag was the 30 star flag flown by Comodore Perry on his entrance to Tokyo on 7/14/1853. To fragile to fly, it was displayed on the bulkhead. Regards, Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Billgior@aol.com Subject: uss missouri flag dear smml members the flag on the side of the bridge of the uss missouri during the surrender ceremony is not admiral dewys flag and it was not matthew perrys flag. it was the flag flown from the uss arizona on december 7th, they wanted japanese to see that flag where the war started and and on the decks of the uss missouri where the war ended. i saw the flag at the uss arizona museum 5 years ago and when i was at pearl harbor in 1999 it was not there no more. i think it is know at the smithsonian institue. also the missouri's decks were not deck blue during the surrender ceremony the were natural teak decks. best regards bill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Ramires, Filipe C" Subject: Re: ICM models Hello list If at least ICM produces 1/700 ship models!!!! Still, I would love to put my hands in a HMS Hood at 1/350!!! Probably just to join the growing stock of unbuilt models that I have and also probably just to adore it unbuilt!!!!:) Regards. Filipe C. Ramires Colchester, UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Ramires, Filipe C" Subject: Re: HMS Hood expedition Hello again An expeditions to find the remains of HOOD!!!!!!! Well, I am surprised. I am just a Portuguese modeller but since I love the ship so much and due to her sad final history I just guess that this expedition is going to start some outrageous feelings in the naval population. Remember what happened when someone tried to dive on the remains of Prince of Wales and Repulse. Just my 2 cents words. Filipe C. Ramires Colchester, UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: Latest info on upcoming Squardron ship In Action releases I can comment on the CVL book - I sent the manuscript to Squadron last February (2000), and since they usually do one ship book every six months, it would not see print till this fall, but since Al's heavy cruisers book is apparently slated for then, it will probably be next spring at the earliest. I do need to update the book to reflect the passing (as we speak) of the Cabot, and add some better pictures of the hangar deck of the Monterey that I found at the Ford library. I can say that the CVLs book will include the near-sisters Saipan and Wright, if anyone is interested. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Clem Jensen" Subject: Lists Good morning I really enjoy the SMML postings. I don't know how you get it all done. Is there another list that also deals with RC model boats ? Clem Jensen Dallas, Texas Hi Clem, RC model postings are welcome here - we have many RC modellers onboard here ;-). I just ask that the posts don't delve too much into the actual RC part too much - that's better offlist I think. I don't know of any list that deals specifically with RC modelling though. Shane PS: Look for pictures on the SMML site of Task Force 72's Annual Regatta in the next day or so ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: Revell Arizons 5" guns You might refer to photos of the Texas for info on the main deck 5" guns - their installation ought to be identical, and I know there are likely more photos of those floating around. Tom Freeman's paintings of the Arizona in the new PH book include two good bow-on views of the ship that show open mounts inside the casemate. The "turret" parts are some sort of heavy-weather covering - whether canvas or metal, I can't say, but they would have been open in the tropics, certainly. One visit by these guns on the Texas in summer heat convinced me that you'd want all the ventilation you could get. And post-attack pics (I'm thinking particularly of the famous 80-G-32427, but there are many other) show the mounts as open on the more aft guns - no battle damage there, so they weren't burned off or anything. I'd just have the opening with free-standing 5" weapons inside. You can get FDD spec sheets on the guns that can be used to scratchbuild replacements (unless there are commercially available replacements, as I'd hope there are for the 5" weapons on the deck above that are far more exposed to view). A little tube and strip plastic, and you're in business. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: Measure 1 at Pearl Harbor Has there ever been any consensus as to whether the Measure 1 used by the battleships at PH actually used Navy Blue instead of Dark Gray? I know this was a theory some time back, and after seeing all the ships in Tom Freeman's latest paintings wearing dark blue under Light Gray upperworks, I thought I'd ask if I missed something. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "JTrudel" Subject: Duane Fowler's Enterprise decals in Canada? Can anyone tell me where I can get Duane Fowler's Enterprise decals in Canada. If I buy them "across the border" the shipping is more than the cost of the decals. Thanks, Jay -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Ray Mehlberger" Subject: Revell of Germany's 1/72nd scale S-Boat Does anybody know when the announced Revell of Germany 1/72nd German S-Boat is scheduled to be released?? Also what the price might wind up being?? I heard one nasty rumor that it won't be available in the USA, when it is finally released...any info on that score too??? Thanks in advance for any info. Regards, Ray Mehlberger -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Arizona: 5" gun deck Derek: The USS Texas is the best example of how the 5" gun deck was laid out. (I believe the term is casemate, but I could be wrong -- anyone with the definition, please weigh-in here.) Anyway, the gun deck on the Texas is about 20-30 yards from bulkhead to bulkhead on each side. The inside wall is just a continuation of the superstructure on the deck above. Therefore on the model, the 5" gun deck would be about the same width as the 3" gun deck above it. Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: American flag on MISSOURI Hi Guys I believe it was Commodore Perry who opened Japan up to the west in 1848 not Admiral Dewey, he was successful at defeating the Spanish Fleet at Manila Bay in 1898, 50 yrs later. I thought the flag on the Missouri was the one flying on the White House on 12/7/41. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: ICM Hood and Chokai releases >> You know, to paraphrase my sainted father, us ship modelers get stuck with the hind teet. There are probably 10 times more armor modelers than there are ship modelers, and a thousand more aircraft modelers. We are the red-headed stepchildren of the hobby. There are not enough of us to sway Tamiya's opinion, let alone ICM's. << Here is some information collected by Fine Scale Modeler. I dont agree with all of it, but they did probably the best pole of modelers than any other. This is a list of different types of modelers and their percentages. Aircraft 84% Armor 48% Dioramas 37% Ships 35% Automobiles 32% Figures 26% Spacecraft 21% Boats 19% Racing Cars 18% Fantasy Models 17% Trucks 13% Motorcycles 09% Total 359%? Now I thought that when you conducted a pole you would want to know what 100% of all modelers were interested in. What's up with 359%? If you add all the automotive related items, Automobiles, Racing Cars, Trucks & Motorcycles, you get 72%. That is slightly less than their total for Aircraft, 84%. If you take the percentage of each of the above categories from a total of 100% of modelers, then the list would look more like this; Aircraft 23.4% All Automotive 20.1% Ships & Boats 15.1% Armor 13.4% Dioramas 10.3% Figures 7.2% Spacecraft 5.8% Fantasy Models 4.7% Total 100% Now, I know that there is no way that there are more ship modelers than there are armor modelers, if not only by the amount of entries at a contest, than by what is on the shelf at any given hobby shop. I think that if we combine the Diorama category with the Armor category, we will have a more accurate break down. If you notice that at most contest, most of the dioramas entered are of an armor subject. If I did just a straight addition of the Armor and the Diorama categories, that would then be the largest group, which, again, if you observe the entries at a contest, Aircraft is always much larger than any other categories. I am going to break down the Diorama category into what I have observed in the last 9 IPMS National Conventions I have attended, both in the USA and one in the UK. Also, I believe that there is a bad overlap of the Ships and Boats category from the original pole. The revised list is below. This is typical of modelers in the USA. Aircraft 25.4% All Automotive 22.1% Armor 21.7% Ships & Boats 13.1% Figures 7.2% Spacecraft 5.8% Fantasy Models 4.7% Total 100% Go to and observe what is on the shelf of all the hobby shops in your area. See if the pole is close. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Latest info on upcoming Squardron ship In Action releases Hi Guys Squadron has reissued the book PBM Mariner # 1074 in the recent issue of Squadron Mail Order as well. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Professionally trained historians Thank you for agreeing with me about writings by professionally trained historians not being better than by those that are not. Having known on a PERSONAL basis many, I repeat MANY, professionally trained historians I can state, from personal experience, I repeat, FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that some have made up data, deliberately twisted interviews, and deliberately ignored data in order to get the story that they wanted. To say that no professionally trained historian would get away with this is NOT TRUE. I say again -- professionally trained historians do not impress me, it is the end result that matters. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Re: Russian Torpedos & Supercavitation RhinoBones, Excellent info on new cavitating torpedos! Thank you, John - Seattle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Scharnhorst Hi All We in the UK are going to get a documentary on the salvage operation of the Scharnhorst. (Timewatch BBC2, 9.00pm). However I thought I'd share the programme description from my TV guide. "Sixty years ago, The Scharnhorst was the Queen of the seas, the invincible flagship of the German Navy. She was the biggest, the fastest and the most powerful gunship, possibly in the world at that time, yet it took only one blast to sink her and her 2000 men and to this day, no-one knows quite how it happened. Even the site of her sinking remained a mystery until a Norwegian diving vessel came across her, and a Norwegian team of divers could launch a full-scale salvage operation. Now for the first time, the story of her demise can be examined." At least they got the name of the ship and the nationality of the divers right but hyperbole apart Timewatch is usually a well put together series and so the programme should be OK. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Drees Joe Subject: I need a 1/350 40mm gunsight! I need the above for a twin 40mm bofors. lost my last one today. Will send something nice in return............Joe BTW RE: ICM .......his name was "Oddball", not "Meatball". 3456,23457, 23458....(counting rivets)..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Sam Pullig Subject: Australian Naval Ensign A 6 X 3 Australian Naval Ensign just sold on E-Bay for about $38 US. Was this a good price [I did not get it]? I had e-mailed a company in Australia last week that advertises flags but have not heard from them. Thanks Sam Pullig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: ZMzimmerman@cs.com Subject: H.M.S Vanguard post WWII battleship I would first like to thank everyone that responded to request for information. And if anyone has the Model Ship Builder articles covering the Vanguard please contact me off list at: zmzimmerman@cs.com Thank you, Michael Zimmerman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Lump518176@aol.com Subject: Adm. Dewey's flag....huh? I think Duane really meant to say Commodore Perry, who arrived in Tokyo Bay in 1853, opening up Japan to the West. Adm. Dewey was the main character in the movie "Pearl Harbor", a Navy nurse, who flew P-40's, then saved trapped sailors aboard Oklahoma, and........!!! Jerry Phillips -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Frank Allen Subject: Re: HMS Hood Expedition (from HMS Hood Association) Yes, there is to be an expedition to locate HMS Hood. This has the blessing of the HMS Hood Association. Our President, Ted Briggs (the last living survivor) will actually accompany the team out to the Denmark Strait sometime in July. To be honest, not everyone in the Association loved the idea, but the vast majority of former crew and family of crew (including the men lost in the sinking) do support the need to find and explore the wreck. Once found, the wreck will be photographed (but will NOT be penetrated or touched)in extreme detail in an effort to ascertain what happened to her on the morning of 24 May 1941. This is the only way to possibly (hopefully) determine what happened. It will hopefully help a lot of people in our Association (and the Kameradschaft "Schlachtschiff Bismarck") to put some ghosts to rest and to understand what happened. One special note here is that the expedition team will also be leaving a lovely (large!) plaque featuring a statement from our Association as well as the Hood crest and two variants of the Hood Roll of Honour (list of the dead). Very nice plaque and a fitting tribute to our crew. I just got back from the reunion and am getting photos developed right now. Won't be able to show the plaque until cleared to do so though. Again, the Hood Association SUPPORTS and IS PARTICIPATING in this particular expedition. Watch the Hood site for more news and for a link to the expedition website when it becomes active. Frank Allen Editor, "Battle Cruiser Hood" (http://hmshood.com) Member, HMS Hood Association -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Boatbldr" Subject: Inside MK IX Looking for pictures of the inside of the MKIX main gun shield as carried on many Flowers - would like to detail the inside of the shield as it is open and visible. Can anyone help me out? regards Boatbldr -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: SMML Wash.DC Yur right Bob! I too would like to express my appreciation to Mike for his effort to put this meeting together. I enjoyed meeting the other modelers on this page and seeing their fine work and exchange ideas! Looking forward to the next one! Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Marc Flake Subject: Squadron ScaleFest Just wanted to add my congratualtions to those receiving awrds at this event over the weekend. The competition in the 1/350 category was tough, and more numerous than in the 1/700 (only two). Besides the ships that won, a nicely done Revell Olympia was also on display. I also wanted to brag about my 6-year-old son who got two 1st place awards. He got so excited, he has already built two models. Even better, his 3-year-old brother built two models, too! As far as vendors go, I only picked up one OT kit -- a BWN "S" class sub that was on sale at 20 percent off. I got another ship, but it flys through the air and starts with a "Z." This will be my first effort at at card model and should be interesting. Marc (who's Skywave Miami-class kit was built and painted as the CL-81, USS Houston) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume