Subject: SMML VOL 1272 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 03:57:27 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: U-505 question 2: Don Greer cover reprint (was Squadron Books) 3: Re: 1/700 weapons suggestions... 4: Re: Schnellboote 5: Visiting the UK & what to see! 6: U-505 7: Re: the Arizona's casements 8: Re: 1/700 weapons suggestions 9: Re: Measure 1 at PH 10: Tidespring-class 11: Parnaiba 12: The Movie 13: Re: HMS PORTSMOUTH 14: British sloop 15: Re: Revell Arizona 5" guns 16: Re: Steve Wiper's Book on the S-Boat 17: Re: Morskaya Kolektsia/Roberto 18: Re: Sheffield 19: South Goodwin light "ship 20: Re: U-505 type U-Boat kit availability 21: Raised letters for ship names 22: Re: BB63 - Flag 23: Re: raised lettering ship names 24: Re: ICM Hood and Chokai releases 25: Re: Pearl Harbour documentary in UK 26: Strange Notion -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: IPMS(USA) Nationals -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: WSW/B-Resina kits from the company formerly known as Rocky Mountain Shipyard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Ed Grune Subject: Re: U-505 question Rusty wrote: >> Help someone who isn't familiar with German boats. What type U-boat was the U-505 and what available models are there of that type? 1/700 scale please. << The U-505 is a Type IX. I believe the variant is D. As far as models - you're in luck. You need to get the Hasegawa U-Boat set which comes with both a Type VII and a Type IX. To make the D mod, you'll most likely need to do some surgery on the conning tower to extend the Wintergarten. Look for Tom's etched set for Axis subs. It has all the parts you'll need to do this kit. Better hurry Rusty! You only have a month before the Nats! Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Ed Grune Subject: Don Greer cover reprint (was Squadron Books) Mike responded to my post: >> Ed said - >>> I picked up a signed print of the Fletcher DD In Action cover. <<< That cover painting of O'BANNON versus HIEI at Guadalcanal was very dramatic, but would appear to have some errors in the type and position of some of the weapons carried at the time (November 1942). Looks like late-war K-guns are shown, as well as incorrect 20mm positions amidships and on the fantail. << It is dramatic, I'm not using it for a reference, and it looks nice on the wall. Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ed Grune Subject: Re: 1/700 weapons suggestions... Bruce wrote >> What is the collective wisdom for replacement weapons for this kit? I have seen 20mm guns in 1/700, and I am sure some body does 40mm quads, but 5"/38 singles? << Hello Bruce If you can locate one - you want the PitRoad Equipment set E-9 Equipment for USNavy ships WWII. It has all sorts of add-on weapons. Including quad 40s and 5'inchers. You may also find one or nore of these sprues in the PitRoad DD and Cruiser kits. The DE kits have a different set. As far as 20mm guns, most every etched manufacturer makes a set. I prefer the GMM set. I've found them easier to manipulate than those from Tom's. I cement a piece of wire or sprue on the base and use it as a handle to move the part into place against the shield. The shield/gun is then removed from the fret. The handle is then clipped to length and the gun is cemented into a hole drilled in the deck. The wire handle helps build up the roundness of the pedestal. With Tom's you need to bend the shield/pedestal and move a small gun barrel into position on the larger shield part. It still ends up being flat. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Re: Schnellboote >> I am going to release a book on Schnellboote's in October, just because of this kit. Wait till you see the cover and all the drawings and photos in this book. You will be able to build a model of almost every version that existed. Steve Wiper << Woohoo. Will you be taking direct orders or will this be available through the bookshops? How much? Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "sell4853" Subject: Visiting the UK & what to see! Hi Anyone who is intending to visit the Uk and want to see ideal places to gain information regarding modelling of any sort a trip to the Imperial War Museum display at Duxford (ex USAF base) is well worth a visit. Be warned though it will take all day to get round all the exhibits etc http://www.iwm.org.uk/lambeth/index.htm is the site for the whole of the IWM and http://www.iwm.org.uk/duxford/index.htm for Duxford itself but don't forget HMS BELFAST at: http://www.iwm.org.uk/belfast/index.htm There is more to see in the UK than you may realise, Portsmouth and Chatham have there own Naval attractions including museums etc. Portsmouth (dear ol Pompey) will be hosting the "Festival of the Sea" in August which will be well worth a visit ! So to all you coousins over the "pond", Come over and see us some time Norman Tenterden Kent UK Hi Norman, See you at FOTS ;-) Shane & Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: U-505 NOT SURE ABOUT THE KITS AVAILABLE, BUT POSITIVE THAT 505 WAS A IX-C. DAVID -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: isublett@home.com Subject: Re: the Arizona's casements Stillwell, page 130, has about as clear a picture of the casement mounts as you could want. Page 190 shows the canvas covers closed, and on page 194 is a good description of the combination of metal shutters and canvas covers - and their inadequacy in heavy weather. Pirie Sublett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: 1/700 weapons suggestions Until Skywave re-releases it's E-6 weapons pack (fat chance), you are going to have to go out and buy one of Skywave Destroyer Escort kits that have this pack in the set of sprues you get. You won't use any of the 5" 38s on the Rudderow-class DEs, so I would suggest you buy that one. There's lots of 20mm and 40mm parts as well. I don't know if there's enough for the Saratoga for the period you have chosen. If not, you could buy the Skywave CVE, which also has the weapons sprues you need. I don't know if the Tamiya Bogue has the extra weapons set, even though it is a re-pop of the Skywave kit. Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: wem Subject: Re: Measure 1 at PH Let's not forget that the pre-war Standard Navy Gray #5 and the Dark Gray 5-D and Light Gray 5-L of Measure 1 were NOT neutral grays. In the Munsell color notation system, upon which the USN colors (note: not colours--the RN used colours) were based, Standard Navy Gray #5 was 10B 6.5/1.5. That means that it was a BLUE, albeit one of very light hue and very little chroma. Dark Gray 5-D was 5PB 2/1.5. That means that it was a PURPLE-BLUE, like most of the USN camouflage colors in use until the introduction of neutral grays in very late 1944, so it would have had a noticeable blue cast to it as compared to a neutral gray. It was of very dark hue, and very little chroma. We know from photos of LEXINGTON in Measure 1/5 that it chalked badly, which would have made the bluish cast more apparent. Light Gray 5-L was Munsell 10B 7/1.5, in other words a BLUE of slightly darker hue than Standard Navy Gray #5. As for documentary evidence, I spent a good deal of time during my last trip to the National Archives reading the Deck Log and War Diary of USS NEVADA and USS CALIFORNIA to see if I could find any evidence of the ships having been in Navy Blue 5-N prior to 7 December 1941. NEVADA's War Diary for Friday April 3, 1942, at which time she was in drydock in PH, reads: "All old paint on the hull has been chipped off. A coat of red lead applied, then the war blue." She was not in "war blue" before. Paul Stillwell, in "Battleship Arizona", records Aviation Machinist Mate 3rd Class Milton Hurst returning to the ship in November 1941 after having been at school on the East Coast: "He (Hurst) was struck by the contrast between the Arizona he had left and the one he returned to several weeks later. No longer was she painted light gray all over, the peacetime color scheme. Up to the level of her bridge, the hull and superstructure were painted a dark gray. Only the foretop, maintop, and tops of the tripod masts were still light gray." Thus, she was in Measure 1, as were the rest of the battleships! Sorry, but only DD FLUSSER was in overall Navy Blue--then experimental and known as Measure 1C--at the time of the attack, and the human eye and color film would have perceived a bit of blue in the colors of Measure 1. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: Tidespring-class When did the Tidespring-class oilers enter service, where they rebuilt and what cargo did they carry in what quantities? Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://sites.netscape.net/friedkappes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: Parnaiba When was the riverine gunboat Parnaibo (built 1937) commissioned? Does somebody own a picture of her in her original condition? Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://sites.netscape.net/friedkappes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: The Movie My eyes were moist from 8:00am Dec. 7th till the end of the Movie. Who cares about the ships (in the pic) the sheer the emotions of the tragedy is what I saw! Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "WEM" Subject: Re: HMS PORTSMOUTH Re the two posts back on this subject folowing my original enquiry, many thanks for the replies. However, re the following: >> The disgrace of HMS "Portsmouth" has nothing to do with "Glorious Revolution" but a lot with American War of Independence. HMS "Portsmouth" had surrendered without a fight to John Paul Jones and so according to Royal Navy code disgraced this name for ever. Strangely enough I have come across a diary of an Australian submariner who writes that in 1914 on the trip from Singapore to Colombo his submarine was escorted by HMS "Portsmouth"!! A bit of mistery or did the old boy got the name mixed up??? << This was the theory that was first mooted to us about the name Portsmouth, but according to our latest information, there was no warship by the name of HMS Portsmouth at the time of the War of Independence. The original HMS Portsmouth was a 46 gun ship built at Portsmouth in 1649. Her fate was at the hand of a French vessel named the Marquis in 1689 when she was captured and blown up. Apparently there have been 15 HMS Portsmouth Royal Naval vessels since but none of them a warship. Though some have been lightly armoured sloops or yachts. 1655 - Renamed captured French sloop 1665 - Ketch captured by Dutch 1673 1667 - Sloop captured by Dutch 1672 1674 - Yacht converted to bomb ketch 1679, wrecked 1703 1690 - 5th rate ship captured by French 1696 1694 - Renamed captured French 6th rate ship, recaptured by the French 1696 1702 - Yacht renamed Medina 1772, broken up 1832 1707 - 5th rate ship, converted to hospital ship 1720, broken up 1728 1741 - Storeship, lost at sea 1747 1742 - Yacht, broken up 1869 1747 - Transport, sold 1767 1756 - ? lost near Senegal 1758 1759 - Transport, fate unknown 1811 - Storeship, converted to coal bunker 1828, broken up 1834 1915 - Trawler requisitioned until 1919 This last one might explain your submariners escort vessel, although it seems unlikely a trawler would be sent that far afield. However, still no leads as to why the name was OK up to the First World War, albeit for minor vessels, but is now unusable. The plot thickens! Best regards, Dave Carter, WEM. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Kcompany@webtv.net (Marvin Reichman) Subject: British sloop While in London last week I took a ride on Thames and passed a degunned sloop anchored at the bankside which is evidently used as a private and exclusive club now. Can anyone give me any information on this ship. Also visited HMS Belfast which was great. A wonderful trip. London is a fantastic city and the people are the nicest I have ever met in my travels. A truly memorable event. Thanks Londoners. Hi Marvin, Check out the SMML walkabout page under "Misc ships & models" - that may give you an idea of the name as there are some pictures of boats moored along the Thames there. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: wem Subject: Re: Revell Arizona 5" guns Hi Derek, >> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the ship did have bare teak decks at the time of the attack, right? There was a discussion about this a long while back in which the Paint/Camo guys stated they did not start painting the decks until AFTER the war started. << Measure 1 called for wood decks to be unpainted/unstained, and horizontal surfaces--including decks--to be painted in Dark Gray 5-D. >> My plan is to paint this model Ms-1, 5-D (using my wonderful S&S paint chips as a reference). I am not going to scale the paint job, so it's going to be bloody dark. Call it one of my pet peeves, but it seems like every PH BB model I've ever seen has been painted to scale or painted in a color that just seems too bloody light for Ms-1. << If you want to avoid the mixing/matching, White Ensign Models' new line of Colourcoats enamels will include Dark Gray 5-D and Light Gray 5-L. This is the only line of paints with direct involvement by Snyder & Short. We'd hoped to be shipping them by now, but are still waiting to take delivery; should be on hand soon. >> Problem...the black "Arizona" stern name decals are simply going to disappear on a 5-D painted hull. Other than trying to figure out how to fabricated raised lettering (my preference, but I don't know how to do it)...can anyone offer an alternative on how to get around this little problem. << Not a problem, unless you absolutely have to have the name there: all USN camouflage measures called for the names to be painted over with the camouflage colors, so it wouldn't really have been visible except up close. Cheers, John Snyder, B.I.T. White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: wem Subject: Re: Steve Wiper's Book on the S-Boat >> Plllleeaassseee, Steve, don't, please don't... I've got a bad case enough of Acute Modellers Syndrome. Every time I think of a nice quick and easy build of a kit, some of you guys come up with a book that makes you: a. want to superdetail it right down to the fingerprints on the helm. b. impossible to decide wich one to build. c. buy (and probably not built) X times the kit, because of b. d. scream because you bought the book after you build the kit and see what's wrong with it... Suffering from a bad case of modelling addiction Wienne << Ah Wienne, now that WEM is coming out with not one, but three different variants of the S-boat (S-10, S-80, and S-100) in 1/350 scale priced at 19.96 Pounds (about $28), think about how many you can build...all those armament variations...all those camouflage variations...all those diorama possibilities.... We expect to start shipping the S-100 kits within a week. John Snyder, B.I.T. White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Morskaya Kolektsia/Roberto >> Where can I buy the Morskaya Kollektsia collection? This collections has a lot of useful titles, but It's hard to find. << Hi Roberto, Try Aviapress website first,they have whole section dedicated to MK, but chances of getting back issues are not very good. Deliveries from Russia are notoriously unrealiable so you need to grab them while you can. What particular titles are you interested in?? Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Lamar Jones Subject: Re: Sheffield Thanks. I believe funnel well is a sufficient locational terminology, though I yield to British terminology for numbering or otherwise identifiying decks. I appreciate the correction. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: David_L._Miller@ccmail.wiu.edu Subject: South Goodwin light "ship I just purchased a Russian made model kit of the South Goodwin light ship. Considering the cost of the kit, I am quite pleased with the quality of the casting, material, and level of detail. I think a very fine model can be built from this kit. Not knowing a great deal about light ships, I was surprised to see there was no propeller on the model. Was this an unbelievably huge mistake by the manufacturer? Then I noticed somewhere on the plan it was referred to as a "lighter", and elsewhere as a vessel. Could it be that the South Goodwin has no means of self propulsion and is towed to its station? If so, I find this very interesting. Any information in this regard would be appreciated. thanks, Dave Miller Hi Dave, The kit is possibly a re-pop of the old FROG kit. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Ray Mehlberger" Subject: Re: U-505 type U-Boat kit availability Rusty, I found the following kits of the type IXC U-Boat (what the U-505 type was) available at Greatmodels web store: Hasegawa 1/700 kit no. HA44126. Contains one each of a type VIIc and IXc. Price is $5.25 Water Line Series 1/700 kit no. WL44126. Virtually the same as the above. (donno which dual kit is better?) $5.75 Water Line Series 1/700 kit no. WL44901. Same 2 types of U-boats, but this kit contains a "VICTIM". $9.05 Commander Series Models 1/350 kit no. CSM18002 of just a type IXc. $29.75 I donno if any of these kits have insignia for the U-505 or not? Hope this helps. Regards, Ray Mehlberger Contributing Armor Editor for INTERNET MODELER MAGAZINE www.internetmodeler.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: Raised letters for ship names Derek Depending on the scale of your model, there may well be some of the sets of photo-etched brass letters that would be adequate for the job. They are available from (among others) Accurate Armour and Aber as vehicle modellers often use them for casting numbers on parts of AFVs. They are, as I recall, usually specified by height, which should be sufficient to select the set you want. For larger scales, there are also injection moulded white letters available from Slaters in the UK. Robert Lockie Swindon UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Richa5011@aol.com Subject: Re: BB63 - Flag Ravi asked: >> Was Matthew Perry a descendant of O.H. Perry? << Actually they were brothers.. Oliver born in 1785 and died in 1819 Matthew born in 1794 and died in 1858 Brief biograghies of both can be found in DANFS Vol II page 155. Nat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: raised lettering ship names >> Problem...the black "Arizona" stern name decals are simply going to disappear on a 5-D painted hull. Other than trying to figure out how to fabricated raised lettering (my preference, but I don't know how to do it)...can anyone offer an alternative on how to get around this little problem. << Glue on some tiny etched brass letters, look to shops catering to the armor crowd, there are some really small letters. I've used them for raised names. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: ICM Hood and Chokai releases About the polls "measuting" the interests of modelers, why were the (dare I say it?) railroaders omitted? Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: Pearl Harbour documentary in UK In reply to Robert Lockie's comment about the makers of the Pearl Harbor (yet another one?) documentary, scheduled to be shown in the U.K. next Monday, being able to spell "Harbor" correctly, why didn't they so do? After all, "Pearl Harbor" is the correct legal name for the site, look on maps (proper maps, that is). In this context, "Harbor" is a pronoun, rather than a noun. Franklyn Boston, Massachusetts (New England), U.S.A. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Strange Notion Keep in mind I'm half asleep and trying desperately to stay awake long enough to shift my sleep schedule from a night one to a daytime one. That alone should probably be enough to explain why my sleep deprived mind came up with this notion. While glancing through the new PH book, I was rather taken with the Freeman painting of the Enterprise passing by the wreck of the Arizona (pg 134-135). Then I got to thinking; "Ya know...the Revell Arizona and Yorktown models are pretty close to the same scale, and if you have the larger Arizona in the foreground...it just might be passable." Okay, I admit...it's rather morbid, but it makes a hell of a statement. Has anyone here ever thought of trying to model a post-attack Arizona as part of a diorama. IMO, it'd be several stages past a royal pain in the keester. Personally I wouldn't have a clue as to where to start. Just looking over the pics of the leaning tower and crumpled superstructure deck brings about a gazillon questions as to how one would even begin to replicate something like that. You could hide a lot with resin water and cotton for smoke, but JEESH! I doubt if you could replicate it even with a mini-torch and a pack of black cats!! The term buggerbear scratchbuild from Hades comes to mind here. I'll be the first to confess, such a project is FAR beyond my current skill level. So no...I'm not seriously considering it. OTOH, I'm curious as to whether anyone here thinks it might be do-able (on some insane level of modeling). . Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Jim Johnson" Subject: IPMS(USA) Nationals I plan on attending the US IPMS Nationals in July and would be interested in meeting some of the rest of you. I enjoyed the meeting in Dallas last year. Time and place are not important, I don't think I'll be going to any seminars or on any field trips. I will, however, be in the vendors room often. I haven't heard of any vendors that are going to be there. The IPMS Nationals web site usually has a list of vendors to be in attendance but the last time I checked, the list was not published. How about it, which of you fine people will be there to add to my 1/350 kit collection and my reference material files? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: rms Subject: WSW/B-Resina kits from the company formerly known as Rocky Mountain Shipyard Greetings! Please check out our web site for great prices on WSW and B-Resina resin ship kits: www.wic.net/~rms/ I will be placing a purchase order with WSW on 15 June. (Please note that this is different from what is stated on my web site. The next purchase order will be placed at the end of August.) If you have any questions, please contact me off list: rms@wic.net. Lisa D. Norman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume