Subject: SMML VOL 1276 Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 00:12:28 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: raides letter ship names 2: Re: deck edge antennas on US carriers 3: Tamiya's 1/700 HMS Rodney 4: Re: PH arizona and some advice 5: Loch/Bay/Castle Classes 6: U 505 and CMB 40 ft 7: Re: Post Attack Arizona...cont'd... 8: Re: measure 1 at PH 9: Re: Lightships 10: Big E on 07Dec41 11: Re: 1/700 weapons suggestions 12: HMS Pennywort & Abelia 13: Re: deck edge antennas on US carriers 14: Re: '41 Arizona 15: Re: Hurrying for the Nats 16: Pearl Harbor Merchandise... 17: Enterprise Dec. 7 18: Re: ICM Konig article -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: ModelWarships.com June upadate -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: raides letter ship names >> I just measured the raised letters on my Winslow and they are 1/32" tall, a bit smaller than your 1/24th. They are PE Brass made by ABER and they are sold in hobby shops for use on armor models. You can get them from VLS, (616)356-4888 or www.modelmecca.com Cheers, Bob Santos << Derek, I have to back off a little, I went out and measured that before my first cup of coffee!!!!! The letters are a bit under 1/16" but that might still work for you. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: deck edge antennas on US carriers They are indeed antennas. Modern carriers and the WW-2 era carriers had them as well. You can also find them on IJN carriers too. They looked more like radio towers than the thin whip antennas you see on modern carriers. They are raised while in port, and lowered once they go to sea. The reason for their length is that they must receive sometimes weak signals from extreme distances and satellites. They receive everything from uhf and VHF signals to short wave and secure coded signals. Obviously, flight ops never take place while they are in the raised position due to aircraft possibly hitting them during take off and landing. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. You can now pay using your Visa / MasterCard http://okclive.com/flagship/ "That's mighty bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: taskforce_58@sympatico.ca Subject: Tamiya's 1/700 HMS Rodney I intend to build the Tamiya 1/700 Rodney kit as she was during the Bismarck chase (May 41). What kind of modifications are required? What color was she wearing? Any camouflage / countershading? Thanks in advance! Edmund Hon Out the 100Base-T, through the router, down the T1, over the leased line, off the bridge, past the firewall...nothing but Net. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: PH arizona and some advice >> With the release of the PH movie, I thought I'd be able to find a Revell Arizona kit fairly easily at one of the local discount or hobby shops. Guess what...I couldn't. I ended up having to order a spares kit from Model Expo. Good price, but the shipping cost me nearly as much as the model did. << I see them on eBay every day. The opening bid was fairly reasonable, but check out their s&h charges before you bid. They vary GREATLY from one seller to another. For instance, I saw a GMM Carrier set there one day for an opening bid of $9.00. Not bad eh? After reading the shipping charges, I found out the guy wanted $4.50 to ship! I ship this stuff every day and it costs less than .80 cents for a set the size of the GMM one he was selling. So read everything carefully before you bid. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. You can now pay using your Visa / MasterCard http://okclive.com/flagship/ "That's mighty bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Loch/Bay/Castle Classes HI All, Having completed a master for a 1:700 River Class Frigate (WWII) I find that the hull is approximately the same dimensions as for the Bay and Loch Classes and with a bit of shortening could be 'bashed' into a Castle Class corvette. Problem is I don't have any drawings for these classes. Can anyone on the list offer a photocopy or two of a scale drawing preferably plan and elevation of these ships? It's the superstructures and deck details that I need. Happy modelling! Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo......(Te Reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "F J Hueso" Subject: U 505 and CMB 40 ft Though a little late: Rusty: U-505 was a type IXC. Miller's U-boats 10914-1945 has a closepic of the conning tower with the boarding party in it. Ian: Model Shipwright No. 96 has an article about 40 ft CMBs that I can send you if, you wish. Regards to all Javier Madrid -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: wem Subject: Re: Post Attack Arizona...cont'd... >> BTW, have you all seen, in various publications, the pictures of the different ships slowing as they pass the memorial, modern ships rendering honors with crew manning the rails....a DD, CVA, anything, like that would make an incredible--and do-able dirorama that tells a sombre story. The wreck below need not be replicated as is doen in other dios, but some of the above surface details can be done easily. If and when I can figure out how my scanner works, I will dig up my old negatives and print some pictures of this dio to post....if any of you wish to see it. It took me just over a month to construct, under a time pressure thing and could have been much better.....but the fact is, it was done and I would invite anyone else to try the project. << Actually Ray, your note above made me think back to a particularly moving photo I took from the bridge of BAINBRIDGE. We had led ENTERPRISE up the channel into PH, rounded the bend in the channel and passed the ARIZONA Memorial. I got a nice telephoto shot back over the Memorial as ENTERPRISE stood into the bend, her crew in whites lining the edges of the flight deck and preparing to render honors to the Memorial. Three days later, a lot of those guys were dead or injured in ENTERPRISE's flight deck fire at sea. John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: wem Subject: Re: measure 1 at PH >> I'm sitting here looking at your chart #1 U.S. Navy WWII Ship Colors and your 5-D and #20 Deck Gray look awfully cold to me. Indeed, they look like bone and white even when I carry them outside. While I have suspected that the "blue" the line appears to be painted at PH was sun-chaulked gray, I'm surprised at your present characterization of the colors. I've even considered using Brunswick Green for your 5-D (Not the RN color, the Pennsylvania Railroad's). I'm the last person to get into a dispute over paint, but is this a change on your part? << Pirie, No change on my part. Those paint chips were in fact matched to both actual USN paint samples, AND the 1929 Munsell Book of Color which was the standard the USN used. The fact remains, Dark Gray 5-D is a purple-blue, and Light Gray 5-L is a blue. Brunswick Green? Not unless you want to go down the same road that made Floquil's marine colors inaccurate. Cheers, John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Melea/Mike Maynard" Subject: Re: Lightships Hello all stations- For all those responding about the SOUTH GOODWIN lightship, you're quite accurate in remarks about the prototype and the model. One point that was not mentioned however was the loss of the South Goodwin in 1954 during a powerful November storm. The anchor chain parted and with no propulsion the ship was set adrift and struck the Goodwin sands, putting her on it's starboard side. The Royal National Lifeboat Institute launched two of it's lifeboats to rescue the crew but darkness and large waves kept the lifeboat men away from the lightship. But an US Air Force S-19 helicopter from the RAF base at Manston put out at first light and was able to rescue the only survivor. Apparently the rest perished, trapped below decks. Almost immediately, the lightship settled into the sands of the Goodwins, but even today traces of it can be seen at low tide. Modern American lightships were always provided with, (first steam, then diesel), propulsion to give the ships crew a fighting chance against the conditions that led to the South Goodwin's demise. (But even with propulsion they were still run down, shelled and roughed up by "mad water") "The only difference between a lightship and a jail cell is that the jail cell can't sink" Regards, M J Maynard, Former Nantucket lightship inmate -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Lump518176@aol.com Subject: Big E on 07Dec41 Enterprise AA fit 07Dec41: 8-5"38cal, 4-1.1" quad 28-.50cal MG .50cal locations: 1 ea. corner of flt. deck (total 4) 5 ea. flt deck gun galleries on catwalks (total 20) 4 ea. on island (2 ea P/S tripod base, 2 ea. aft upper face) (total 4) all .50cal mg positions had no STS, only splinter mats (except 2 ea. on aft upper island) Enterprise still wore MS-1 and her flight deck was stained a "prussian blue" with large yellow dashes. I can provide references for any of the above info. Jerry Phillips -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Bruce Burden Subject: Re: 1/700 weapons suggestions I would like to thank everybody who responded to my query for 1/700 20mm, 40mm quads and 5/38" singles. I will try the Corsair Armada 20's, WEM 40's and I have found a RUDDEROW DE to check out the 5"/38's. And, yeah, I already have some ACE RTV. :-) Need to look at casting some 1/35 wheels and tires... Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: HMS Pennywort & Abelia Hi all, I got together with a good friend last week and I mentioned my finding OG Stuart's (RCNVR and OC of the Flowers HMS Pennywort & Abelia and the Captain Class Fitzroy - this last provided the inspiration for his yacht, Fitzroy II) books in the local library to him .. he then replied "Oh yeah, my grandfather was good friends with him" .. to make a long story short his grandfather is going to contact Stuart's widow and son on my behalf and provide me with an introduction to them. Sad to think that I have been friends with Dr.Greene (he's 86) for the better part of 20 years and never thought of asking about any other ex-servicemen he knows, although we have both delved into other historical stuff in the past - he flew in a Stranraer when they were based here in WW2 and he has also read all my published works, so knows my interest in such matters. Once again, if you know a vet .. TALK to them while you have the chance. Does anyone know of any other photos of Pennywort (circa March 1943 preferably) besides those in Lambert's book? I really want to do a model and illustration of her now. I have also started a small mailing list devoted to escorts in general and the Flower class in particular, so if anyone is interested, please send me an email and I shall add you to it. Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Re: deck edge antennas on US carriers Hello Kelvin Those whiskers on the sides of of the flight deck are indeed antennas. While you are correct that many radio devices these days use high frequencies and therefore require minuscule antennas, naval ships communicate over a large range of regencies, some rather low, which require a variety of antenna lengths. >> Their size seems an anachronism in that modern electronic communications devices do not need such large antennas (your pocket size cell phone works on milliwatts) and satellite technology and having them on all corners and along the sides of the deck far from the communications center seems puzzling. << Cell phones operate at around 900 MHz and some at 1.8 MHz. The reason they seem to operate well on very low power (I personally have measured field strengths of over 20 volts per meter off of a cell phone antenna - what's happening to your brain?) is that there are lots of cell sites and they are all within a line of sight of you (This doesn't mean that you can see them as RF transparent but not light transparent objects may get in your way). Close to shore, a cell phone would work well, but once you were over the horizon they would cease to function rather quickly. Frequencies below 150 MHz will skip off the ionosphere giving added range while (Actually higher frequencies will too but not as well) and lower frequencies will bend around the curvature of the earth. Even lower frequencies will have a ground wave that will "stick" to the surface for considerably long distances (LORAN at 100 KHz has groundwave baselines of over 1200 miles (2000 km). Efficient antenna lengths in these ranges are measured in multiple meters. (a quarter wave LORAN antenna is over 1300 feet tall! You wouldn't put that on a ship). As to why they are located on the ends of the ship, the further away from the large metal masses to block their signals, the better. This is a rather simplified explanation but hope it helps. Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: wem Subject: Re: '41 Arizona Hi Derek, A nice quiet Sunday morning here, cup of tea at hand, and a bit of time to go through my copy of Stillwell.... There's a photo on page 126 showing a crew member leaning against one of the 5" A/A guns, and the deck is quite clearly planked. On page 135 is another photo of James Cagney aboard during filming of "Here Comes the Navy", again posed against a 5" A/A gun and standing on a planked deck. Page 163 has a shot looking down from the mast to the boat stowage area--the deck is planked. Page 196, photo of 5" A/A gun on planked deck. Overhead view on page 209 looks down on the planked gun deck. As for the 1.1s, I presume "foundation" means simply the circular steel base upon which the mounts would be placed. Stillwell shows these as tubs port and starboard on the superstructure deck, forward of the foremost 5" A/A gun and aft of barbette #2, and port and starboard aft on the main deck just aft of the break from the upper deck. There were machine guns on the sky top of the mainmast, and there was one machine gun platform on the mainmast, and two machine gun platforms on the foremast (one of which was added in 1936). John Snyder, B.I.T. White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "WEM" Subject: Re: Hurrying for the Nats Brad... >> Caroline is a wicked person for creating such a nice kit isn't she!! :-) << Well.. with just a little help from my friends ;^)) Caroline Carter White Ensign Models, http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Chris Hughes" Subject: Pearl Harbor Merchandise... You'll all have to come over to England if you want such stuff! Revell Germany have been very quick off the mark in releasing a special display stand selling a boxed set containing Arizona, with a Zero (their own?) and a Val (Hasejimi?). They also have the Monogram P-40, Zero and at least a Val (Hasegawa?) in 1/48... Mind you, there wasn't any Eagle Squadron stuff, or Doolittle Raid B-25's for that matter! Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: Enterprise Dec. 7 >> Thoughts of a diorama of Enterprise passing the wreck of Arizona just after the attack lead me to ask the following question: What was Enterprise's AA fit at the time? Were all 4 1.1's fitted? Any 20mm? 16 .50s? If so, where? all the photos I can find are too grainy or small to identify such things. << Steve, Check out the Enterprise web site at: http://www.cv6.org/ I believe they have a section for model builders to submit inquiries. Steve Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: SolidStump@aol.com Subject: Re: ICM Konig article >> Based on the fact I want ICM to produce HMS Hood I just bought the ICM Konig. (Well that's my excuse anyway) I wont be building this model for a while, but I remember a while back that in Fine Scale Modeler there was a lengthy article about building the ICM model. Since I tend not to buy FSM anymore is this article worth while searching out. << The article appeared in the May issue of FSM. It is a first rate article with well annotated pictures addressing construction of the model. It highlights the few problem areas and makes recommendations on dealing with them. It discusses adding new details and other building techniques usually glossed over Mike Ashey, who has published two illustrated shipbuilding guides wrote the article. Buy it and build an exceptional model of a ship from an exceptional era. Simon Scheuer BTW I have Konig and Grosser Kurfurst. I want 3 Hoods, Takao and anything else ICM dares to make. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Cadman Subject: ModelWarships.com June upadate New reviews for June include: Pitroad / Skywave USS Cleveland Light Cruiser in 1/700 scale Pitroad / Skywave Russian Missile Destroyer Udaloy in 1/700 scale Tom's Modelworks 1/700 Yamato/Musashi Photo Etch set #749 Tom's Modelworks 1/700 IJN Submarine Photo Etch set #747 White Ensign Models 1/700 Aircraft details Photo etch set Flagship Models 1/700 Arleigh Burke Class Destroyer PE set Classic Warships Warships Pictorial #11 Lexington Class Carriers Classic Warships Warships Pictorial #13 IJN Kongo class Battleships Dunagain Decals 1/350 USS Enterprise Carrier markings In Harms Way The story of the loss of the USS Indianapolis by Doug Stanton Since our last announcement we have added the following features: A buildup review of the 1/700 Hasegawa Japanese Carrier Akagi by Len Roberto Also added to the Gallery a collection of Michael Taylor's Carriers 1/700 Akagi 1/400 Heller Charles De Gaulle 1/800 Arii Midway 1/700 Enterprise CV-6 1/700 Skywave Bouge Class CVE 1/700 DML LHA with Skywaves Arliegh Burke and models of the following: 1/35 Tamiya LCCS by Owen Ziegler's 1/350 DKM Bismarck (Tamiya) built by Jens Leverentz 1/72 HMS Plymouth (Scratchbuilt) Type 12 Rothesay Class ASW Frigate by Chris Rogers 1/192 USS Onondaga twin-turret monitor (Lonestar Models) by Mark Leonard More to come, stay tuned! Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume