Subject: SMML VOL 1277 Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:24:07 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: deck edge antennas on US carriers 2: ICM Koenig Decals - suggestion 3: Magazine - "Fine Scale Modeler" 4: Re: RIVER/LOCH-BAY/CASTLE CLASS FRIGATES 5: Re: Thanks for the U-505 info.and the 2003 Nationals 6: Re: Hurrying for the Nats 7: #11 uss lexington and #13 ijn kongo books by classic warships 8: Rodney 9: You heard it here first 10: Anchor chain 11: PH and Merchandising 12: For John Snyder 13: JMSDF ships 14: Re: Deck Edge Antennae on Carriers 15: Re: Visiting the UK & what to see! 16: Taiho color scheme 17: Re: raides letter ship names 18: Re: 41 Arizona 19: Re: PH arizona and some advice 20: Canal boats 21: Liberty ships 22: Trumpeter Arizona? 23: Scharnhorst 24: Re: Ebay 25: Re: Enterprise Dec. 7 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: deck edge antennas on US carriers >> They are indeed antennas. Modern carriers and the WW-2 era carriers had them as well. You can also find them on IJN carriers too. They looked more like radio towers than the thin whip antennas you see on modern carriers. They are raised while in port, and lowered once they go to sea. << I suspect that they are in use at sea, but as you state they would be lowered during flight ops. >> The reason for their length is that they must receive sometimes weak signals from extreme distances and satellites. << Actually not quite, weak signals are more often dealt with by amplification, though of course properly designed antennas do have appreciable gain. The main reason for the large number of these antennas is that each is tuned to a different band. That also has the benefit of improving gain as a tuned antenna has higher gain than a broadband one. >> They receive everything from uhf and VHF signals to short wave and secure coded signals. << The nature of the signal isn't very relevant, just the wavelength and to a lesser extent directionality. The mast antennas that they use are omnidirectional, but the lengths would vary to tune them. BTW they are probably not UHF. Those frequencies would use a much smaller antenna and a different design. The UHF antennas would most likely be on the island. The deck edge masts are lower freq stuff. >> Obviously, flight ops never take place while they are in the raised position due to aircraft possibly hitting them during take off and landing. << Would you believe a very tall set of arresting wires?? :-) Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: ICM Koenig Decals - suggestion If any of the aftermarket decal makers are planning to step in and supply a sheet of decals for ICM's Koenig class kits (many of which contained no decals) I have a suggestion. In addition to the obvious (flags, pennants, air recognition circles for turrets) I would like to see a set of black decals in the shapes of the various rangefinder/gunsight apertures in the main gun turrets. These would take up very little space on the sheet, but would spare the modeler some tedious work. I can supply the reference material. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Magazine - "Fine Scale Modeler" In the July, 2001 issue there are two articles that may be of interest: Page 32: Story of the creation of ship models used in the PH movie Page 36: Modeling the Takao [1/700], WW II Japanese cruiser John - Seattle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: Re: RIVER/LOCH-BAY/CASTLE CLASS FRIGATES Although the dimensions may be similar the shapes of the hulls of these three classes are totally different from each other. The River class had far more curves in its hull; sheer, flare and stern were all well curved. The Castle and Loch/Bay classes had as many straight lines as possible to facilitate a great deal of prefabrication by steel fabricators other than shipbuilders. The deck sheer on these classes consisted of three straight lines and they had squared off transom sterns. No way could a River hull be made to look like either a Loch/Bay or a Castle. For the record the dimensions of these ships were as follows: River class LOA 301.5ft x 36.5ft x 12ft Castle Class LOA 252ft x 36.75ft x 14ft Loch/Bay Class LOA 307ft x 38.5ft x 12ft It should be further noted that the Castle Class were single screw ships while the other two classes were twin screw. John Lambert has produced some drawings of the Castle class. Someone, I think A&A Plans, has produced River Class drawings and John Lambert has both Loch and Bay classes in his "drawings planned to be done" list. Harold Lincoln -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Thanks for the U-505 info.and the 2003 Nationals I want to thank everyone who sent the information I needed on the U-505. WOW, I got everything from web sites selling the kits along with prices and reviews, to photos of the U-505 in Chicago, to the different mods that will be required to make the Hasegawa kit accurate to info on different web site for information. You guys really came through! Since my knowledge is somewhat "limited" on this subject, you guys saved me a fair amount of research time for my diorama. Now if Skywave will ever get that Casablanca carrier out, I'll be in business. And yes, I'm aware of the Tom's Modelworks kit. I'm just cheap. I can't help it. You get that way with two kids in college. Thanks again to all that helped me out. I'll TRY to have it ready for Virginia Beach next year. BTW, the Nats. MAY be held right here in Oklahoma in 2003.I will be presenting our club's bid in Chicago. IF we pull it off, ship modelers will definitely have a friend in charge of almost everything, since I'll be the Chairman. Wish us luck. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. You can now pay using your Visa / MasterCard http://okclive.com/flagship/ "That's mighty bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Hurrying for the Nats >>> Caroline is a wicked person for creating such a nice kit isn't she!! :-) <<< >> Well.. with just a little help from my friends ;^)) << Yeah, tell Peter I'll get him for making that photo etched "spider antenna" on the aft 5" gun mount! GOOD LORD! The PE is so delicate, you literally can't touch it without bending the parts! Shaping that $@@#!*&^ thing took over 4 hours! Now my only problem is mounting the deck gun without damaging the antennae. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. You can now pay using your Visa / MasterCard http://okclive.com/flagship/ "That's mighty bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Billgior@aol.com Subject: #11 uss lexington and #13 ijn kongo books by classic warships dear: smml members my name is bill giordano from riders hobbyshop taylor michigan and i have just recently received the classic warship books #11 uss lexington and #13 ijn kongo class battleships. i would just like to say to everyone that these books are well done and the photograph quality is excellent. they have been a good seller for me and i recommend these books to those of us who are ship modelers and for those who just love naval ships. the close up photos of uss lexington and the ijn kongos are excellent. both books are a must for anyone's collection to steve wiper from classic warships publishing i would like to say (excellent job) keep up the good work. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Rodney Hi Edmund You need to do the following to turn Rodney into her Bismarck chase fit 1/ Build the bridge out (see photos and plan) and add the various wind baffle plates 2/ Add the following AA, 3 x 8 barrelled pom poms located one on the quarterdeck and two just in front of the funnel on platforms (the Tamiya Nelson part for this would be useful here). I would suggest White Ensign's resin pom poms which are magnificent. There are two quad 0.5 mountings to add to the rear of the bridge on separate platforms and two Oerlikons on top of B turret. These are in line ahead. 3/ Add a Walrus catapult to X turret and a crane on the port side just in front of the bridge. The Walrus crane and catapult can be obtained from White Ensign as well. 4/ A later HACS needs to be added to the top of the bridge tower 5/ Type 279 radar needs to be added to the HACS tower 6/ Remove all saluting guns and add a recess to the starboard side of the bridge behind the coning tower 7/ Rodney carried 2 x 50 ft motor pinnaces and 2 x 45 ft motor launches so most of the boats should be left off. She also carried lots of Carley floats 8/ Cut the mainmast down in height Colour was overall AP507B with AP507A decks (apart from the wood ones) 16 inch Guns were counter shaded. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Subject: You heard it here first In keeping with the aim and traditions of SMELLIES. Keeping you ALL up to date with events. I have just completed the reading of the first text of this here, up and coming, large volume covering The British, Australian, Dutch and Polish Fleet destroyers of the "J", "K" and "N" classes. I am not going to comment on camouflage, or the photographs as I have NOT seen them (well just some). But the text is, for a first time author, very, very complete. The amount of research and its sources are very commendable indeed. I am impressed. I am preparing the drawings, and that is another task of gigantic proportions. Much is done and much more is still to be done. At present I am working on sheet "C" for HMS (it should read HMAS) Napier. Publication is due in the spring of 2002, and I have to make priorities, and cut off somewhere. The author has a meet with the publisher on Tuesday and is taking the text, most of the photographs, artwork and just some of the drawings. Oh for more hours in the day! But its "LOOKING GOOD" Remember - YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST! (A lower deck Buzz)! Yours "Aye" John Lambert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: PSmith6328@aol.com Subject: Anchor chain Hi everybody, I am in the process of building the Tamiya 1/350 Enterprise and would like to do a waterline model of this ship at anchor, in a bay setting could anybody please tell me what chain to use and how many anchors would be used in this situation. Thank you Phill Smith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Ned Barnett Subject: PH and Merchandising I continue to be amazed at the dearth of intelligence among Hollywood types. Some movies are well-merchandised; others get short shrift. I am also amazed at the failure of some manufacturers to monitor what's coming and act on their own. Case in point - when a script my wife and I wrote was optioned, part of the package was to involve me as co-producer with the job of getting merchandising tie-ins (at 1/2 a gross point on merchandising, a potentially very profitable deal). Because I come out of a PR/Marketing career area, and because I'm a modeler (and there were airplanes in the script), my plans included a host of things Hollywood hasn't YET thought of (and a few it has, sporadically): 1. Book tie-ins on Air Force One, on the Thunderbirds, on the F-16 and the MiG-29 (the technological stars of the script) 2. Model tie-ins on the same, including "branded" releases along the lines of AMT's "WINGS" series tie-in 3. Kiosks in theater lobbies (and a website carrying same) offering movie posters, plastic kits, books, military patches, real ex-sov pilot accessories, flying jackets and flight suits (standard-issue and Thunderbirds), knock-off Air Force One accessories (ash trays, drinking glasses, etc.). 4. A chance to join the Thunderbirds Association (a membership group made up of ex-Thunderbird pilots and crews, including ground crews) as an associate, and to contribute to their scholarship fund (their sign-on to the script gave us lots of rights to the name, patch, etc.). 5. A "making of" video tape, soundtrack album, etc. In short, merchandising can be very profitable, and it's not hard to organize - because everybody wants to cash in on a Hollywood movie. But the way it works best is that the movie company contacts the manufacturers - and if the producers never built models, they might miss it. The other key is one publishers know better than toy/hobby manufacturers - get related books out there. All the classics on Pearl Harbor (except East Wind-Rain) are on all the bookstore shelves, along with a murder mystery (Pearl Harbor Murders) and a Harlequin-style Romance just called "Pearl Harbor" which I bet sells a lot to guys who quickly become disenchanted with the emphasis on bodice-ripping at the expense of cold steel and hot lead. But the book is there and it will sell. For the hobby manufacturers, those who dropped the ball get what they deserve - nothing. Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Mike C" Subject: For John Snyder B.I.T.? Brit In Training? (chuckle) Mike Czibovic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: JMSDF ships Hi Guys I was recently looking at the Pitroad website on Pacific front hobbies and it seems that the Japanese Navy today as we know has built under liscense their Kongo Class from our Arleigh Burke design. Now it seems their making their version of the Oscar Austin. It's hull number is 182. I suppose it will be released in this year or next. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Dave Edgerly" Subject: Re: Deck Edge Antennae on Carriers To Kevin Mok, The antenna seen protruding horizontally from the deck edge of carriers is determined by the frequency range that they are intending to intercept. Some of them are tune-able by moving an element within the tube or electronically (more common) for the VHF range and some are 1/4 wave for HF traffic. You'll most likely find the UHF at the stern (glide slope for example) and on the island (Satcom). The main reason for lowering them during air ops is to prevent accidents as there are enough distractions and dangers without them in the way. I can't vouch to the freq range of the WWII carriers but chances are good that they were only HF band. On the modern carriers, some of these antennae are used for intelligence gathering by the way. Not sure of WWII. I'm basing my statement here on my experiences with Signals Intelligence for 15yrs in Army and my work on avionics for a major aerospace corp. Hope it helps a little. Dave E -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: Visiting the UK & what to see! I just had the pleasure of visiting the UK in the company of A. Jones and the lady Vanessa. These people gave me room and board, took me to the heart of London and made a side trip to Portsmouth to show me the queen of ships . . . Lord Nelson's HMS Victory. The king of ships was none other than the HMS Warrior. A mighty fine ship! Mighty fine people and hosts. Regards, Rhinobones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Randy Short Subject: Taiho color scheme Any of you all know what Taiho was painted up in? Randy Short -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: raides letter ship names Bob Santos wrote... >> I have to back off a little, I went out and measured that before my first cup of coffee!!!!! The letters are a bit under 1/16" but that might still work for you. << Hey, Bob... Hey, I know that feeling. Thanks for the update! I'll contact them to see what they have once I have expendable funds again. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: 41 Arizona >> A nice quiet Sunday morning here, cup of tea at hand, and a bit of time to go through my copy of Stillwell.... << I've gotta get this book!! Thought I had a slightly water damaged copy secured through Abebooks the other day for $23, but someone bought it off the shelf before my order went through. Argh! >> There's a photo on page 126 showing a crew member leaning against one of the 5" A/A guns, and the deck is quite clearly planked. On page 135 is another photo of James Cagney aboard during filming of "Here Comes the Navy", again posed against a 5" A/A gun and standing on a planked deck. << Thanks for the confirmation, John. Am at present watching the movie yet again and found that scene. Should've thought about that reference before now. I'm suddenly noticing a lot of things I hadn't noticed before. Looks like it's time to take up my bud's offer on the loan of that scribing tool. >> As for the 1.1s, I presume "foundation" means simply the circular steel base upon which the mounts would be placed. There were machine guns on the sky top of the mainmast, and there was one machine gun platform on the mainmast, and two machine gun platforms on the foremast (one of which was added in 1936). << Thanks again, John. The foundation explanation makes sense. I found the answer about the machine gun locations in Friedman's US BBs, but the confirmation is nice to have. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: PH arizona and some advice >> I see them on eBay every day. The opening bid was fairly reasonable, but check out their s&h charges before you bid. They vary GREATLY from one seller to another. [Snip] So read everything carefully before you bid. << Hey, Rusty... Ebay is where I went first, but the cheapest Revell Arizona there, with shipping factored in, was no less than the one I got from Model Expo. I've seen tons of them there dirt cheap before -- many under $5.Sigh...guess folks are upping the antie trying to cash in on the new movie. I also checked out some of the other internet auction places (Yahoo, Amazon, etc). The prices seemed to be pretty constant around $10-15 at that time, with $4-5 for shipping. Given this kit came out around '57, makes you wonder how many times now sales have paid off the original injection molds? Right about now, I'd kill for a pro-modeler version of this kit with corrected parts. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Ian Wrenford" Subject: Canal boats Hi SMMLies, I'm interesting in getting some plans for a 'typical' traditional canal boat from eg Holland. Basically one of those ones that people live on or you can hire. Barge like in appearance with a pretty much flat top and about 60' in length. I've kept my eye out in the 'wooden boat' mags for years but guess they're a bit pedestrian for the 1:1 scale builders! Anyone have any leads? Either book titles with some plans - or even better some plans. Thanks in anticipation..... Ian -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Ian Wrenford" Subject: Liberty ships Hi, I've accumulated a reasonable stack of reference on the Liberty Ship including plans - and intend scratchbuilding one in 1:350. Works out about 400mm odd in length (and about the same wide!!). Anyone had experience in scratching 1:350 merchantmen? Interested in exchanging ideas on techniques.... I know there's an oop 1:700 skywave kit ( a bit small) and a 1:200(?) Blue something-or-other wooden hulled kit. But pretty sure no other scales kitted. Correct? Thanks, Ian -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Trumpeter Arizona? Just took a look see at the latest PacFront catalog at Steelnavy and saw a reference to a Trumpeter 1:350 '41 Arizona avaliable for $38 around (glance at calendar)....now. Were my eyes deceiving me, or is there such a beast? If there is...has anyone seen this kit? Desperately inquiring minds would like to know if it might be even half-way decent. At that price, it might be worth getting and throwing the Revell kit back on the shelf (if I can sell enough used CDs at the book store to raise the funds that is). Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Einar Kr Holtet" Subject: Scharnhorst Hi, SMML friends! A few months ago the wreck of German battleship Scharnhorst was found on great depth North of Norway. After this stunning observation - nearly fifty years after - there is perhaps some renewed interest in building a plastic model of the ship. But I have not found any set available, even from Revell, Airfix a.o. Any idea as to where to find it? Regards Einar Kr. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Michael471295@cs.com Subject: Re: Ebay I echo the advise given by Rusty about Ebay. Be very careful to read everything including freight charges. Before you bid, decide the absolute top you are willing to pay for something, including freight. Deduct out the freight and bid NO MORE. No matter how bad you want the item, if you do not get it, no big deal. It will come around again. Do not become one of the many I see who, for example, will win bidding on a kit with an ultimate bid of say $60.00. When, the SAME EXACT KIT is available from ANY local hobby shop, or On-line seller for say $20.00!!!!!!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: steve_singlar@hsgmed.com Subject: Re: Enterprise Dec. 7 >> Thoughts of a diorama of Enterprise passing the wreck of Arizona just after the attack lead me to ask the following question: What was Enterprise's AA fit at the time? Were all 4 1.1's fitted? Any 20mm? 16 .50s? If so, where? all the photos I can find are too grainy or small to identify such things. << Steve, Attached are replies I have received from former Enterprise crew members. If you carry this off, they would love to see pictures of it. Steve Pelham, NH Reply #1 >> At the time of Pearl Harbor, ENTERPRISE carried the four quad 1.1" mounts, and 16 (or more) .50 cal. machine guns. I'm not sure of exact locations, however. I'd suggest looking at photos in the Noumea image library http://www.cv6.org/noumea/ that are prior to March, 1942. Several of these show the guns along the catwalk around the flight deck. That's my best idea of how to determine the locations. Also, in the Online Library of the Photographic Section of the Navy's Historical Center web site (www.history.navy.mil) there were some overhead photos of Pearl taken in 10/41 which show the Big E moored at Ford Island. There may be enough detail in those to pick out where the guns were mounted. One other note: At that time, CV-6 was painted in Measure 1, Dark Grey 5-D up to the level of the top of the stack. Masts, etc. above that level were painted light Grey 5-L. This was also the scheme worn by BB's at the time. Hope I've been of some help. Regards, Rich << Reply #2 >> Hi Steve, to answer your questions. I am quite sure our AA batteries were all 1.1s and .50s. They were on the forward and aft gun gallery port and starboard and forward and aft of the island structure. 1.1's were directly forward and aft of the bridge. 50's were along the rails, possibly 4 to a grouping. There were possibly some on the bridge. After Pearl Harbor, many more were added and I believe there was a change after my capture and before Midway. Since, I spent so little time on the deck force and then in the radio gang, never being assigned to guns, then being transferred to the squadron and now trying to remember makes me not too sure. Have you posed the question on the CV6 board? I think that would be your best bet for authenticity. JL << -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume