Subject: SMML VOL 1282 Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 06:45:53 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Carriers an Anchoring 2: Re: Mastering/ plan reductions 3: Re: Anchors and chain from "Jim Johnson" 4: Re: RAF Rescue Launches 5: Pearlharborbook.com 6: Re: mastering 7: RAF HSLs 8: Re: Yamato 9: Re: Mastering 10: Photo etch, too delicate? 11: Re: RhinoBones/Royal Sovereign 12: Lycra thread 13: Re: Vittorio Venetto and eBay 14: Funny Experiences 15: Ground Tackel on pre-WW2 BBs 16: How about a 1:1 scale project? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Forthcoming Naval Books 2: Books for Sale 3: Re: Battleship Royal Sovereign 4: HMS Royal Sov. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Wayne E. Weatherwax" Subject: Re: Carriers an Anchoring Normally an Aircraft Carrier will only use one anchor. On the Nimitz class each anchor weighs 60,000 lbs, and each link on chain weighs in at 350lbs each. It is the combination of the weight of the anchor and scope of the chain on the bottom that holds the ships position. Very rarely is the 2nd anchor used, but when it is used it is not dropped until the vessel has backed down at least a hundred yards or so from the first anchor position. This precludes the anchors fouling each other. Many times all thats necesary is to have the second anchor just below "Straight up and down" in other words just sitting on the bottom, with little scope of chain out. I served on three Carriers: USS Wasp CVS-18;USS America CVA-66; USS Dwight D. Eisenhower CVN-69(Plankowner) I only saw the second hook dropped once in my 20 year career. The preferred procedure when the weather is bad enough to require 2 anchors to hold a ship on ground is to get the vessel underway, and ride the weather out underway. I also recently saw that beautiful replenishment at sea diorama here online. The model maker has my admiration for a tremendous job well doen, but there is one glaring error in the diorama. NEVER would any other US Navy or Foreign Navy vessel approach the Carrier that close on her port beam while she was alongside a replenishment vessel. This amounts to hazarding a vessel, with that vessel abeam the carrier to port, the carrier has no escape route if it experienced a steering casualty. That Commanding Officers career would be in serious doubt by making such an unprofessional/unseamanlike like mistake. Having served several deployments aboard a fleet oiler USS Neosho AO-143 in the 60's I can assure you at the very least the Commanding Officer of the Oiler(which has OPCON) would be on the secure net reaming out that C.O. for making such a dumb move, and ordering him to move off. Trust me every Commanding Officer in the Fleet know each other, and their seniority number,USNA Class number etc. And they take such breaches of proper ship handling seriously. Wayne E. Weatherwax CPO,USN(ret) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Preston L Hassler Subject: Re: Mastering/ plan reductions Something to be alert to - I have had experiences with office type repro machines where one direction of the sheet would be a different scale reduction than the other direction. This can be checked by putting two lines of equal length and at 90 degrees to each other and checking to be sure they are of equal length when you finish. To get around the problem, I rotated the original 90 degrees from one run to the next and have an even number of runs from beginning to end. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Douglas Subject: Re: Anchors and chain from "Jim Johnson" They were called "detachable links", consisting of the "C", two sides, and a taper pin. They were placed at the center of a shot of chain, and the links on either side were painted different colors to indicate the number of fathoms "on deck", "at the hawse", or "at the water's edge" when anchoring. They served to facilitate replacing damaged links/shots. Doug Bauer ex-BM2 USS Windham County (LST1170) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Mike Schubert Subject: Re: RAF Rescue Launches Hi, I found the following magazine articles in connection with RAF rescue launches: Airfix Magazine: Whalebacks - August 1979, May 1980 BPB 63ft Conversions - February 1980 (MGB), September 1980 (MASB) Military Modelling: BPB type 1 (Flat Iron) - March 1977 BPB type 2 (Whaleback) - October 1977 BPB type 3 (Hants & Dorset) - October 1976, September 1978 Thornycroft - May 1978 Battle: BPB type 2 - January 1976 Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Pearlharborbook.com Interesting site they have for the book there. I also found a mini discussion board about the color of the battleline at the time of the attack. See... http://www.pearlharborbook.com/navyblue.html Just keep in mind, they moderate the posts... Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: mastering >> Wood is not recommended as the grain could very well transfer to the mold. << >> WRONG!!! << Hi Steve; I believe I still may have some RTV molds out in the garage. I made some terrain pieces for 1:285 microarmor and the wood grain (basswood and pine) did show on the RTV. I used the molds anyway as the resin pieces would be painted and flocked which covered up the grain marks. Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister http://www.egroups.com/group/WoodenWalls Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: RAF HSLs There were several articles in Military Modelling and Airfix magazines in the 1970s or early 1980s about HSLs. Unfortunately my supply is still in boxes and I have not yet indexed those issues but I may be able to look for them after the weekend. Robert Lockie Swindon UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Senkan@aol.com Subject: Re: Yamato From: Graeme Martin >> 1/. What was the weather conditions like, was there blue sky, scatted cloud cover or what? I know it was 1200 hours! << Low cloud cover....planes basically came out of the clouds undetected to attack. >> 2/. How big were the seas? not big at all, probably a little choppy, there was a small squall >> 3/. What speed was she travelling at? << Yamato's top speed was about 27 knots >> 4/. Where was the wind coming from, like across her port or starboard bow? << that basically epends on what direction she was facing. And Im sure she was facing all directions. (bomb and torp evasion) >> 5/. What battle flags was she flying? << I have no idea. >> 6/. What planes was she carrying and were any of them on the catapults moments before time of attack? << She wasnt carrying any planes. They were used for Kamikaze atacks I believe. >> 7/. What were the American planes that led the initial attack and what camoflage were they carrying. Were they all carrying torpedoes or were some carrying bombs or both? << Fighters, torp bombers, dive bombers all took part. The fighters would straff the decks to kill anti aircraft gunners. >> 8/. Did the American planes circle before making their run or come in from cloud cover or from high angle or having the sun behind them? << I dont think there was any sun to speak of. You have to realize torpedo bombers attack low while dive bombers come at you from above. >> 9/. Were any of the destroyers from the accompanying squadron in Yamaoto's vicinity moments before initial attack? << It was a task force...the escorts (the light cruiser Yahagi was present also) was present. Yamato, Yahagi, and 7 destroyers I believe were present. One destroyer had engine trouble and was behind the task force >> 10/. Obviously the anti aircraft guns would have been at high angle for an incoming air attack. But were any of the bigger guns readied or were they still in the centre line position? << With torpedo bombers coming low the anti aircraft guns were at all angles. Also Yamato's main guns fired an anti aircraft shell(18" anti aircraft guns). But I believe those were only used at the beginning of the battle. In most of the pics the guns are centerline. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Mastering I too have made a fair amount of master patterns for casting. For small parts that will be machined, I prefer to use brass. Gun barrels in particular turn nicely in this metal. I have used aluminum too, but find that it's lesser mass and machining characteristics make it a bit more difficult to achieve a nice finish in turnings. For items that will be milled, it works just fine. For larger patterns, such as 1/96 gun turrets, I use solid Plexiglas blocks. With a bit of care, you can achieve great results - holding edges sharp enough to cut, it you desire. The key with this material is to avoid overheating during the shaping process, as it can develop internal stress fractures that will show up at a later point as surface cracks. There are a number of tooling materials that are specifically developed for pattern making. I think one brand is Synform, there are more. Though expensive, they do have the advantage of no grain. I have used wooden masters as well, particularly for large hull plugs. Basswood is very good, but I have also used pine. In both cases, I use fiberglass resin and cloth to cover the wood prior to priming. You can totally eliminate grain marking this way. After fiberglassing, I use automotive primers and fillers to achieve a smooth surface, bringing it to a 600 grit sandpaper finish prior to waxing. HTH Kurt SeaPhoto Maritime Photography www.warshipphotos.com Now taking credit cards via Paypal! Warship Models Underway www.warshipmodelsunderway.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Photo etch, too delicate? I made mention of this a few days ago, but I wanted to know if anyone else feels the same way as I do. I have been working on the WEM 1/350 Benjamin Stoddart kit. Construction has gone very smoothly until I got to the photo etch stage. I have worked with photo etch since it's inception, and I never thought the words "too delicate" would cross my lips. However, the PE in the Stoddart kit is as close to this description as it will ever get as far as I'm concerned. The rails in the WEM Stoddart kit are so delicate, that if you touch them between the stanchions, they will certainly bend. While this characteristic by itself doesn't make them impossible to work with, it does make them almost impossible to apply without damaging them. Particularly in very tight areas such as the mast structures where you tend to "bump" into things while positioning the rails. That little "bump" is enough to damage the rails to the point where they can't be repaired once glued into place. Many of you may have read my post concerning the "spider" antennae on the aft 5" gun. This antennae is as close to impossible-to-assemble as a photo etch part can get in my opinion. The line weight is so fine, that the antenna can't be handled in any way without damaging the parts. Even with very fine electrical tweezers, the parts are damaged (which is what I use). I did (finally) get it assembled after four tedious hours of very careful bending and shaping. After all that time getting it to look correct, I just didn't have the nerve to try adding the support ring to the human-hair-fine wires. It's just impossible (at least for my feeble skills) to position that part without bending wires. Then to glue the ring into place (you would have to touch it someplace to apply the glue) would have certainly bent the delicate assembly, so I just didn't want to risk it. This has caused me to advise anyone without extensive experience working with PE parts, to hold off building this fine model until they develop their skills to the "highly experienced" level. Maybe I'm getting older or maybe my skills are deteriorating, but I have never had problems like this in 1/350 scale. Has anyone else had this problem with the Stoddart or Knox kits, or is it just me? Or maybe my set was slightly over-etched. To test this theory, I used some of the Iron Shipwright rails on the same model. They are just very slightly heavier in line weight, and I had no trouble applying them on my last project. Sure enough, no problems whatsoever with application, and they looked just as good next to the WEM rails. The only way one can see the difference between the two company's rails, is by using a magnifier and looking at them side by side. I hope Peter Hall and Carolyn Carter consider this "constructive criticism" on their future projects. In my opinion, increasing the thinnest line weight by just . 001 would make all the difference in the world in making the parts easier to work with. By increasing the line width by this small amount, it would make their parts MUCH easier to apply and to work with in general. I know everyone wants scale thickness to the photo etch parts. Being in the business I can certainly appreciate that, but there is a fine line (no pun intended) between scale thickness and ease of assembly. I hope everyone at WEM and the industry in general, will consider this on future releases. Even if the folks at WEM don't make this change, I will continue to buy their products. It will just make it that much easier on these 45 year old hands and eyes to build their wonderful kits. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. You can now pay using your Visa / MasterCard http://okclive.com/flagship/ "That's mighty bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: RhinoBones/Royal Sovereign Hi Rhino, Shane is right that this is an old FROG kit. It does show its age and if you are thinking about restoring it to WW I configuration let me warn you that you will have quite a task with this one. The representation of the planking on the decks is in a very poor state and might need a complete rework but the worst thing for back dating are the very prominent bulges (different from those in "Ramilies" and "Resolution") installed in 1920 and very difficult to suppress. I tried to do just that but finally decided that I might be better off building the hull from the scratch and abandoned the project. Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Lycra thread Some have mentioned using lycra thread for rigging ships. After checking several local craft and sewing shops, and searching online, I have one question: Where the heck can I find this stuff? Joe Poutre Unabashed Ebay "sniper" :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Douglas Subject: Re: Vittorio Venetto and eBay How 'bout a 1:72 Airfix E-Boat (in shrinkwrap) for $13! Doug Bauer Poway, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Funny Experiences Awhile back, I bought a USS California (BB-44) ship cap because it's my favorite ship. Occassionally, I'll wear it when I go out for coffee with friends, etc. Wearing it in public has taught me that Ignorance must be bliss. A guy (who served in the Army in Vietnam) at one of the local road side resturants looked at and said "They named a ship /California/?" He knew about the Texas, and he knew it was a battleship, but the concept that they might've named one California blew his mind. The clerk at a convienence store asked me "Is that your ship?" I get that a lot. It's a ship on a cap...BB doesn't mean squat to most folks. So, I graciously explain, "No, I study naval history and this is my favorite ship." Sometimes I'll go on to explain it was a battleship that served in WWII that was scrapped in '59. When I explained this to the clerk, he said "Battleship??? I thought it was a carrier." Goes back to "ship on a cap." Ignorance must be bliss. One thing for sure...it does tend to lead to some interesting conversations. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Bill Rowe Subject: Ground Tackel on pre-WW2 BBs Why did the older large warships have three anchors, and how were they use? Re the question on chain. I believe anchor chain is studded chain, and is sometimes used for jewelery. That would still be too large for most models. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: How about a 1:1 scale project? By chance, I stumbled onto this website yesterday: http://members.aol.com/ussinaugural/mainpage.html Maybe some among us could help out with a 1:1 scale project. In any case, take a look, especially those of you reasonably close to St. Louis. Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Denis Keegan" Subject: Forthcoming Naval Books Simon Kooter of Vanwell Publishing in St Catharines, Ontario, Canada has advised me that the following books will be published and available on the dates shown. He is accepting Pre-orders now at a 25% DISCOUNT when the order is e mailed to him at: simon.kooter@vanwell.com Title Date avail. Price AOTS HMS Hood Sept '01 $36.95 US 58.95 Can AOTS Yamato Now $39.95 US 63.50 Can AOTS HMS Dreadnought Sept 43.96 US 70.50 Can Osprey # 41 Confederate Ironclad 1861-65 Aug/Sept 14.95 US 23.95 Can New Vangaurd # 42 Nov/Dec 01 14.95 US 23.95 Can Brit Napoleonic Ship of the Line HMS Hood Oct '01 26.95 US 42.95 Can Andrew Norman Warships of the Great Lakes July/Aug 01 71.00 Can Bob Malcolmson US Amphibious Ships and Craft 85.00 US 134.50 Can Norm Friedman Ship Plans by A D Baker111 1914/1945 Ship Camouflage 65.00 US David Williams 102.95 Can Warships in miniature Oct 01 45.00 US 70.95 Can 1/1200 Waterline models Bob Malcolmson Liberty Sept 01 45.00 US 70.95 Can Ships that won the War Peter Elphic Armed Transport Bounty 36.95 US 58.95 Can AOTS Endeavor Sept 01 36.95 US 58.95 Can USS Ranger March 02 34.95 US 55.95 Can 1st Flat top from Keel to Mast 1934-1946 336 Pages 230 B/W illustrations Ships of Canada's Naval Forces 75.00 Can Ken Mc Pherson Updated 400 Pages Ships of Canada's Marine Services 60.00 Can Maginley & Collin 360 Pages HMS Hood July/Aug 01 26.95 Can Conway Maritime Modelers series John Roberts 64 Pages Battlefront 29.95 Can Sinking of the Bismark Unique presentation includes; Documents, Log Books, Plans, Maps E Mail Pre orders for the 25% Discount -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Matthew Prager" Subject: Books for Sale I'm cleaning out my library and have the following books for sale, buyer to pay shipping. Max Miller, Daybreak For Our Carrier, $10.00, Hardback COL Carl W. Reddel, USAF, The Transformation in Russian and Soviet Military History, $10.00, Paperback Norman Friedman, The Naval Institutes Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998, $40.00, Hardback U.S. Navy, Navy Department Communiques, Vols 1-3, $75.00, Paperback Steamboats and Modern Steam Launches: Reproduction of a Magazine Published in 1961, 1962, and 1963, $50.00, Hardback John Bowen, A Ship Modelmaker's Manual, $20.00, Hardback Norman Friedman, U.S. Cruisers, An Illustrated Design History, $40.00, Hardback Life: Science Library, Ships, $9.00, Hardback Time-Life: The Seafarers, The Dreanoughts, $9.00, Hardback Anthony Preston, Battleships, 1856-1977, $12.00, Hardback Tony Gibbons, The Complete Encyclopedia of Battleships, $20.00, Hardback R. K. Lochner, The Last Gentleman of War: The Raider Exploits of the Cruiser EMDEN, $18.00, Hardback Paul Schalenbach, German Raiders: A History of Auxillary Cruisers of the German Navy, 1895-1945, $22.00, Hardback Howard I. Chapelle, The Search for Speed Under Sail, 1700-1855, $40.00, Hardback Germany Surrenders Unconditionally, Facsimiles of the Documents, $10.00, Paperback The End of the War in the Pacific, Surrender Documents in Facsimile, $10.00, Paperback Report by the Supreme Allied Comander to the Combined Chiefs of Staff on the Operations in Europe of the Allied Expeditionary Force, 6 June 1944 - 8 May 1945, $25.00, Paperback -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: wem Subject: Re: Battleship Royal Sovereign That kit is currently in manufacture by Eastern Express, IS the old Frog kit, and IS in stock here at White Ensign Models for 12.95 Pounds. It certainly isn't rare enough to fork out lots of dough on eBay! John "I am NOT Benedict Arnold" Snyder, B.I.T. White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: HMS Royal Sov. Don't waste your money on EBAY The Naval Base has it in Stock. http://www.modelshipbuilding.com/british_battleships.html Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume