Subject: SMML VOL 1286 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 04:59:35 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Centerlines 2: Flag Bags 3: Re: Hornet at Alameda 4: H.M.S. INTREPID rails & stanchions 5: Wood 6: Re: We modelers don't have fun at movies 7: Re: Mastering 8: Re: FOB 9: Re: Finishing wood hulls 10: VCR Alert UK 11: Re: HMS Dido in camouflage 12: Re: USS Langley at Tarakan, Borneo on 10 January 1942?/Hornet at Alameda/HMS Dido in camouflage 13: Re: Brass Props 14: Re: Shrink Wrap - the other side 15: Finishing Wood Hulls 16: Buoys and Blast bags 17: Making Exact Centerlines 18: Re: ARIZONA to PENNSYLVANIA Conversion 19: Car Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: Centerlines Bruce, Center a mark on the stern then pull a stringline to the bow........tape it then mark you points. Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Flag Bags Hi SMML, I am more-or-less familiar with the "flag bags" on US Navy warships around the time of WWII, but I would like to know what the navies other nations used for the same purpose (storing signal flags) and what they looked like. Put another way, what was found at the bottom end of signal halyards on, say, ships of the Royal Navy in the WWII period. I have to know what it looks like before I can model it! Thanks, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: Re: Hornet at Alameda >> a carrier was sinking and there were men trapped inside and all they could do was pass the time playing cards until the ship sank. Then it moved to the present namesake of the ship where men could hear the sound of card playing in a compartment but no one was there - anyone remember what ship it was supposed to be. << Mike, I've read this claim about the USS Yorktown on one or two occasions. Unfortunately, I can't think of any references at the moment to back this up. Devin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Dean, Tom" Subject: H.M.S. INTREPID rails & stanchions Paul I just took a look at a few sites on the web for INTREPID to see what type of stanchion we were talking about. I just did a search on "Google" using HMS INTREPID and found a number of sites. Didn't look through them all, but the ones I did view had some rather nice pictures. As for replacing the stanchions. At that scale, and being a working model, I would suggest trying the following. Go to your local hobby store and purchase a supply of brass rod in the appropriate diameter and a generous supply of strong black line in the right size for the rails. With wire cutters, or similar tool, cut the brass into lengths equal to one and a half that of the stanchion. You said the ones on the model were undersized, so you will have to find the proper length. The stanchions shown in the pics I viewed all seemed to be a standard 3 ball, with two low, and one high rail. I can only assume it would be a standard fit for RN ships built during the 1960's. Maybe one of the fellows on the list from the "Andrew" can help with the sizing. Lay out the positions and drill holes into the deck. The brass rods can then be glued in place. To ensure a constant height, I make a push rod out of hardwood dowel with a side cut away at the correct height and a small piece of brass plate glued to the butt end of the cut. I then use a dremel tool to smooth off the top of the stanchion and prime and paint white. Now comes the fun part. You will have to know how to tie a clove hitch. Starting at the last stanchion in run, tie a hitch and touch with ca glue. Stretch to the next one a repeat. Over and over and over. You will notice that the clove hitch makes a rather nice stanchion ball. You should be done in a month or two! Now go back and paint your balls white! I have used this "old" method on a number WWII and 60's ships, and although tedious, works rather well and is strong. Tom Dean Hamilton, Ontario Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Wood At a recent meeting of the U.S.S. Constitution Model Shipwright Guild a member displayed several pieces of wood he had salvaged from a grapefruit tree he had felled on his property in Florida (U.S.A.). The wood had been milled into several thicknesses for demonstration purposes, and it had many interesting properties, including amazing flexibility in the very thin pieces. He says that these trees are cut down frequently for developments, etc., and the logs are easily available (like, for free !!). We do not have these trees in New England, unfortunately. I would like to hear what other SMML people think of this wood, please. Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SolidStump@aol.com Subject: Re: We modelers don't have fun at movies >> Try being an engineer (and likely the same for others with a technical degree)! Between historical knowledge, military/governmental operations insight, and technical knowledge, movies can be a real bummer for me, especially if they aspire to being reality. (sci-fi and comic book based movies are easier since they don't make any claims to reality, as long as the sci-fi doesn't become totally ridiculous, like Armegeddon.) << My friends used to give me a hard time over my disappointment with screwed movies. If you have seen enough "war" movies, you realize there is so much actual footage of ships/planes/tanks involved in the actions portrayed, that there is no excuse for showing a postwar angle deck carrier and labeling it the Yorktown or some such nonsense. I still watch hoping for some realistic scenes and insightful observations that make the general public more appreciative of the machines and men who used them to fight. Simon Scheuer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Mastering >> What would you recommend as the best method for eliminating grain from a wood hull, basswood for instance? Al Ross mentioned lacquer auto primer a few postings ago...I'd be interested in more detail on finishing wood hulls from Steve, Al or anyone, as I'm getting started on the Bluejacket 80' Elco PT kit (which Al designed). << Don, I use a polyester finishing resin, which is also one form of fiberglass resin, or glass fiber for those who speak the Queens English (Monty Python always comes to mind when I hear that!). It is important that one use a finishing resin as it contains a large amount of wax, which gives you a super smooth finish, hence FINISHING RESIN! It also has absolutely nothing to do with people from Finland. You can find this resin, in the USA that is, in any good radio control airplane hobby shop. I use a brand called SIG. This is a two part resin system. You have your can of resin and a very small bottle of catalyst. Be VERY CAREFUL with this stuff. I use it out doors as it is very powerful on the nasal cavities and the lungs. Your first thin coat will soak into the wood, while the second gives you the desired layer to finish sand. Let it cure for 24 hours before sanding on it. I would suggest experimenting on some scrap basswood first. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: PolTexCW@aol.com Subject: Re: FOB >> FOB is a shipping and accounting term meaning Free On Board, << At the risk of being pedantic, it means "Freight on Board" John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: wem Subject: Re: Finishing wood hulls Don Leonard wrote: >> What would you recommend as the best method for eliminating grain from a wood hull, basswood for instance? Al Ross mentioned lacquer auto primer a few postings ago...I'd be interested in more detail on finishing wood hulls from Steve, Al or anyone, as I'm getting started on the Bluejacket 80' Elco PT kit (which Al designed). << I'd use sanding sealer; Testors used to make it for the wood model aircraft folks, and it would impart a glass-like finish to balsa, which certainly speaks highly for it. If you can't find it, I recall my cousin used to make his own using Testors Clear Dope and adding talcum powder. On the other hand, a good automotive lacquer should do the same thing, with sanding between coats. John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Mithrand@aol.com Subject: VCR Alert UK A four part series entitled HELL IN THE PACIFIC starts this Thursday channel 4, 9pm The Daily Mail produced a two page spread on this documentary series and called it a timely reminder of the real events of the brutal imperial rise, touches on Pearl Harbour and begins a litany of memories of bestial murder and torture. Backed by eye witness reports and graphic archive film. Forget hollywood crap AKA PEARL HARBOUR AND SPEND THE MONEY ON A VIDEO TO RECORD THIS ON. Roy Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "David Griffith" Subject: Re: HMS Dido in camouflage Dear George, Further to my reply in the last mailing, I have to say, "Oh, what a silly pratt I am!" Fancy replying without even looking at the photos in the book! But then I don't regard myself as a proper historian! The previously mentioned book has three photos of what is claimed to be Dido undergoing repairs at Malta in March 1944. There is also an aerial photograph of her underway in Feb 1945. The Malta photos include one that shows a portion of the forecastle being replated. The hull is very definitely in a disruptive scheme of some kind, but more than that could not be said. The other photos, including the aerial one, confirm the two tone scheme of which you speak. Presumably, the ship was repainted during this period of repair. In fact, the photo with the disruptive scheme seems to show civilian contractors painting the forward deckhouse. (Does anyone know how long it took to repaint a cruiser?) All the other photos show a clear and consistent demarcation line between two tones, presumably a medium and light grey, so there is no question of it being a trick of the light. The light areas are:- B, Q & X turrets, both funnels, the whole of the after deckhouse, the upper half of the after funnel casing, splinter shield around the pom pom infront of the after funnel, searchlight platform between the funnels, the bridge and forward deckhouse with the demarcation line running along about four feet above the forecastle deck (odd?), the whole of the foremast and the mainmast up to the level of the top of the after funnel, it being black above that point. Other twiddly bits of superstructure above the demarcation line also appear to be light. There are photos of other members of the class in similar, but not identical patterns. Raven speaks of Naiad and Euryalus being painted in medium and light greys, so presumably they would be AP507B and AP507C, respectively. I hope this helps. Regards, David -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: wem Subject: Re: USS Langley at Tarakan, Borneo on 10 January 1942?/Hornet at Alameda/HMS Dido in camouflage Harold, I was not implying that LANGLEY wasn't at Tarakan, just that none of my references had her there. Regarding your book, please, please footnote extensively and tie this information to specific references. >> I remember as a kid watching the Navy Log TV series and there was one episode where a carrier was sinking and there were men trapped inside and all they could do was pass the time playing cards until the ship sank. Then it moved to the present namesake of the ship where men could hear the sound of card playing in a compartment but no one was there - anyone remember what ship it was supposed to be. It would have to be the YORKTOWN, WASP, LEXINGTON or of course the HORNET. << Mike, I remember that episode too, and my memory tells me it was supposedly LEXINGTON as I recall specific mention of "Lady Lex." Regarding the Raven book on the DIDO class, we have a copy for sale at White Ensign. John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models Where we'll soon publish: "Marmite as an emergency wheel bearing lubricant" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: David_L._Miller@ccmail.wiu.edu Subject: Re: Brass Props I had the same question about six months ago and came up dry. I ended up using Tom's Model Works Photo etch surface ship props. He makes a 1/350 scale set of 3, 4, and 5 bladed props at 1/350 scale (battleship size) for STATIC models. You set the pitch of the blades during assembly and can create counter-rotating props. These worked reasonably well, considering there are no cast props that I have been able to dicover. It would seem this is a reasonably large niche that someone would discover and fill. I would gladly pay $20 for a well cast pair of props. Dave Miller -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Jim Johnson" Subject: Re: Shrink Wrap - the other side I was part owner of a hobby shop for 6 years. We never knowingly cheated anybody, but were cheated on by numerous customers. One incident will never be forgotten. When we had a kit returned because of missing parts, we would normally tape it shut and throw it in the sale box. It was sold as is. We would mark on the kit the deficiency. People would buy the kits for spare parts, particularly car modelers. One day a repeat customer came in and bought a car model. He was back the next day claiming it was missing the tires. We said "OK" and gave him a replacement model. We wrote "tires missing" on the kit, tossed it in the 1/2 price box and went about our business. Before the day was done, the customer was back and bought the same kit at 1/2 price. The very next day, he was back and bought another car kit. Wouldn't you just know that it too had parts missing. He claimed the kit didn't have the interior. We gave him a replacement. He immediately wanted to know if the "defective" kit was going into the sale box. His face fell when I told him that we would return this kit to the wholesaler." I didn't know that you could do that" he said. I explained that we could and would. He left the store looking like a kid who didn't get any Christmas presents. He called later in the day to see if the kit was in the sale box. I told him no, that we were going to return it. The next day, my partner was working and I warned him about what was going on. The day after, I talked to him and asked if the guy had called. He said that he called and was told that the kit was in the sale box. He came in and bought it shortly there after. I said "but I told you what he was doing". My partner said that I shouldn't worry. Before the customer showed up, he took all the car kit parts out of the box and filled it with parts from some kits we had in the back that were unsaleable. The box contained some airplane, tank and ship parts chosen at random. He wrapped tape around and around the box and made sure that the guy know that these kits were sold "as is" and that there were no returns. He eagerly agreed and left the shop with a smile like the cat that ate the canary. He never brought a kit back because of missing parts again. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Finishing Wood Hulls Regarding the hull & wood finishing thread--My latest project is a 1/8"=1' scale model of a 215' ship used for oceanic research. The hull was built from basswood for the ribs/bulkheads and filled in with balsa block, sanded fair. The finishing is enamel paint sprayed over a thin layer of white polyester fiberglass gelcoat. The hull has a thin shell of paint brought down with varying grades of sandpaper from coarse to very fine and it's as hard as a rock now. You'd never know from looking at the slick master that it's a lowly lump of balsa underneath. From this, a mold will be made and the fiberglass hull popped from that. When I build models, the actual original material is immaterial. It's all going to be covered by paint (usually primer) anyway whether it's styrene, resin, plexiglass, brass or fiberglass. The main thing is to acheive an accurate representation with no compromises in the final product in respect to scale and detail. Have a good one, Victor Baca Model Ship Journal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Phil M. Gollin" Subject: Buoys and Blast bags 1: Re. Blast Bags. Were RN blast bags painted camouflage colours, or did they just fade. On the APNA website there is a picture of HMS Renown in camouflage with (presumably new) Blast Bags standing out brilliantly white. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/9420/ships/renown2.jpg 2: Re. Carrier Anchoring. Whilst it would obviously be a "back-up" and need to be practised, was it/is it common for the big carriers to anchor as opposed to mooring alongside or at a buoy? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Making Exact Centerlines My method for assuring a clean centerline down the hull is to determine the centerpoint along the keel at the forefoot and the stern (or aft base of keel). These points are marked and a straightedge used to connect the two, scoring a pencil or fine marker line to connect them. If you're careful to keep a piece of masking tape straight, you can substitute this for the straightedge by laying the edge of the tape on one of the bow or stern centerpoints, pulling it taut and bringing it down at the opposite end. This works like a carpenter's chalkline to determine a line, which should lay directly on the edge of the tape. You can now score a line with a pencil or use the tape's edges to determine where a hole will be drilled. You can double check accuracy by using spring dividers, swinging to either beam. If the hull has a lot of sheer or is a hollow fiberglass unit, and a deck centerline is needed, I tape a piece of thread tautly connecting the bow and stern centerlines and use that as a guide for sighting and determining the centerline at any point below the line. Use a small 90 degree square (Micromark sells machinist's squares in small sizes) to connect the thread at any point to the hull and mark as you go down the centerline. If care is taken to just touch the line with the square and not allow it to bend or bow, you should get an accurate measurement. This method is more dicey if there's a lot of deck camber, in this case I affix a small bubble level to the horizontal beam of the square and keep it centered. Another way to determine the deck centerline on a complex deck shape such as on a resin model with superstructures built in is to guesstimate the centerline and make a small pencil mark. Double check with spring dividers. By swinging the divider port and starboard without lifting the centerline leg, the outboard divider's leg should fall exactly on either beam. If it's off, adjust your center mark until you get it right. After a while, it's amazing how your eye gets the exact center of anything you look at "pret'near nigh" as my dad used to say. May your models gather no dust, Victor Baca Model Ship Journal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Hank Lapa" Subject: Re: ARIZONA to PENNSYLVANIA Conversion I have a GMM brass set that allows either ship to be made from the (larger) Revell kit. Grab a copy of the Revell kit while you can find it, as Revogram have boxed it up as part of a special package coincident with the movie, and you'll consequently pay all the more for it. Though you want one if you're into movie memorabilia. Hank -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Hank Lapa" Subject: Car Models I understand that car models make up over half the US hobby. I'd wager it's pretty much always been that way in the US. However, I have heard on educational TV (?!) that ship modelling is the world's oldest hobby, I think because of some little boat replicas found buried with mummies. Although ships are a far second in my own inventory and building, I do consider ship modelling by far the most "noble." You can bet there's at least one ship model in the White House and Buckingham Palace, but no Chevy street rods, Klingon battlecruisers, or naked Harley girls. But it's great that everyone can find things to build that fit their interests . . . just stop lumping Project Apollo and Babylon 5 together in the same category . It's just not right. The real stuff is The Right Stuff, Hank -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume