Subject: SMML VOL 1293 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:01:20 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Ship wakes and whitecaps 2: K19 3: Mikasa conversions 4: Re: Hornet at Alameda 5: 1/48 figures 6: Correction on AGC Plans 7: Re: Mikasa conversions? 8: Re: Floating Drydock 9: Re: Castle Class Corvettes and Cruel Sea 10: RN asw ships- & "Cruel Sea" 11: Classic Warships 12: Italian Decks of WWII 13: 1:350 ARIZONA 14: BB Fighting Tops -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Re: Don Preul's Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Ship wakes and whitecaps Went through a bunch of old FSM issues and paid more attention to the ships models this time round. One busy naval diorama had an aircraft carrier replenishing stores from a supply ship on the starboard side and a destroyer escort on a parallel course port side. The ocean must be pretty rough as the whitecaps were quite impressive given the size of the carrier to compare them with. I recall reading in the 70s a book on photo interpretation during WWII authored by a real smart cookie in British intelligence with the name of Constance something. She's a she. One of the few photos in that book showed an aerial shot of three minesweepers creating their wake and the statement was that it was pretty easy to calculate the speed of the minesweepers from the pattern of those wakes. Facilitated interception, etc. With a factoid like that making an early impression on me it is hard to ignore the wakes and waves as depicted in model diaromas. I don't know the physics but I do notice that the angle of the bow wave, the wavelength of the wash as it travels from the bow to the stern, the waves in the ocean, etc. are never given the study in detail they deserve. Needless to say that aircraft carrier replenishment diaroma looked good as ship models. But the sea had too many visual inconsistencies that just didn't come together for anyone who has ever seen a real sea. The three ships would have been way too fast as indicated by their wakes. The wavelength on the hull sides didn't match the ships' movements. For whitecaps to form mid-ocean would have required storm conditions. And so on. This is not a complaint but more of a plea to those who have the technical expertise to write a paper on this subject. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Ian MacCorquodale" Subject: K19 Hey SMMLies, Feature page of the ships taking part in the Harrison Ford movie K19 are now up, we will all have a great time bashing this one when it comes out. Ex HMCS Terra Nova is cast as USS Bigelow..Ojibwa as Russian rescue sub. see it here way before the movie comes out. http://www.geocities.com/macamodius/ K-19 the widowmaker http://www.geocities.com/macrachael/ Main site Cheers, Ian -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ed Grune Subject: Re: 1:48 scale figures Franklyn wrote: >> Can any SMMLer advise a source for 1/48 (1/4"=1') U.S.Navy crew figures? << Testors/Italieri has a set of 1:48 scale modern flight deck crewmen (and -women). I've seen them in the local HobbyTown. Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Mikasa conversions Well Rhino, if you are a really brave and patient man you could probably convert Mikasa to one of Formidable or Bulwark class battleships as the hull mesurements are close enough. Problem is that Mikasa's hull form is quite different from the others,specjally where 6inch casamates are concerned. The parts of Mikasa kit like gun turrets and funnels are also useless for the conversion purposes. Once again the time required for the conversion might be equal to time necessary to scratchbuild the whole ship. Now if somebody would ever release Asahi the story might be quite different than. Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Candy Forster & Rob Robinson Subject: Re: Hornet at Alameda From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: Re: Hornet at Alameda >> I've read this claim about the USS Yorktown on one or two occasions. Unfortunately, I can't think of any references at the moment to back this up. << Devin: A little late, but you can find a specific reference to this kind of event in "Incredible Victory", by Walter Lord. I can't find the book at the moment, but the men were playing acey-deucey, & were trapped below decks at the time the ship was finally abandoned. They were in phone contact with the folks above decks. I have no knowledge of any "ghosts" in namesakes, however, although there was at least one Essex-class namesake. Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: buchnerb@mail.direcpc.com (0C754C01) Subject: 1/48 figures Look in the aircraft section. Several of the plastic kit makers produce carrier deck and mechanics that would be useful. The Teknics line of resin parts from Meteor Productions (WWW.Meteorprod.com) has a sets of British and American mechanics that could be converted into sailors. One of the British pilot sets has a figure in a uniform coat and tie with a peaked cap that would make a good naval officer. Several other resin manufacturers in their online catalog have a number of adaptable figure sets. Try also Squadron Mail Order or Hannants in the UK. Bruce Buchner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: DRPREUL@aol.com Subject: Correction on AGC Plans Kurt, The Plans are for a C2-S-B1 not a C1-S-B1 Don Preul.....J&D Productions....Annapolis, Md.....wwwjdproduct.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: Re: Mikasa conversions? In SMML 1292, RhinoBones asked if there could take a Seals Mikasa and do a conversion to any other 1900's British battleship? The answer to this question is a yes, The IJN Asahi class (1896-97) were similar to the "Canopus" class. More specifically, the Asahi class were patterned more closely after HMS Vengence herself, built by Vickers. The British Estimates for 1896-97 provided for five "improved" Majestic class battleships with twenty Belleville water-tube boilers over the standard eight large cylindrical boilers of the Majestics. Each one of the resulting Canopus class ships were built from different English shipyards, with each having a different type of engine design. According to Silverstone's "Directory of the World's CAPITAL SHIPS," Asahi was similar to the British "Canopus" class with different shape turrets, with the Mikasa also being similar but with powerful Vickers engines over the Asahi's John Brown type. Concerning the different turret shapes between the Canopus and Asahi classes, a comparison of photographs in the above mentioned book will definitely show the more rounded turret shapes adopted for the Asahi over the Glory. The Canopus class was more than what was then called an "improved" Majestic class. This class of vessels were in their day what would become known as battle-cruisers, more powerful engines with less armor, on only a slightly smaller displacement. With the improvement and the availability of Harvey-Nickel armor, the Canopus class was designed with thinner armor plates, decks, and belts over their entire length, making for only a slight increase in their top speeds. In Fred Jane's book "The British Battle-Fleet,"he alludes to the fact that with many latter battle-cruiser designs, such a design could neither run away or stand and fight it out with more traditional battleship designs. Both the Majestic, Canopus, and the more follow-on Formidable classes could be built using the Mikasa kit. The possible vessels to be constructed from this kit could be the Majestic class of, herself, Caesar, Hannibal, Magnificent, Mars, Prince George, Victorious; the Canopus class of, herself, Albion, Glory, Goliath, Ocean, Vengeance; and the Formidable class of, herself, Bulwark, Implacable, Irresistable, London, Prince of Wales, Queen, and Venerable. Though there are slight irregularities in hull lengths between these three mentioned British warship designs, they were essentially identical in outward hull and superstructure form. The IJN follow-on class to the Asahi class was the Asami, which was based upon the "improved" Canopus class Formidable class battleships. So, there are a possibility of building four IJN battleships from the Mikasi kit, Asahi, Mikasa, Asami, and Tokiwa. Also from this kit, an amazing twenty-one pre-Dreadnought RN battleships. Quite a good number from a single hull with needing a slight modification in its hull lengths. Now, if there was just some enterprising out there that would invest in making the different turrets needed for such conversions to be made a little easier. Harold Stockton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Floating Drydock >> Does anyone know if Floating Drydock is still in business. I had a partial order filled a few months ago and now they don't even answer my e-mail. << I just received some drawings from them last week. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "R N Pearson" Subject: Re: Castle Class Corvettes and Cruel Sea >> I agree with Nathan regarding the Cruel Sea and if you can find a copy of Corvette K-225 (HMCS Kitchener)--get it. It's schlocky in parts, but well worth having. I taped it off the AMC channel late one night several years ago. << Further on Corvette K-225, they had to shoot some extra scenes, however Kitchener had already been assigned elsewhere, so another corvette stood in for her. .. only problem was the replacement corvette was a short focsle one and they had to build up the extended focsle using plywood. This was done on just one side. . one ship coming and another going. Forget where I read that, but it was in one of the numerous corvette books I've recently picked up. Regards, Bob Pearson View my corvette illustrations at http://members.nbci.com/profileart/non-av/index.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Phil Lord and Gayle Fink" Subject: RN asw ships- & "Cruel Sea" Victor Baca wrote-- >> As for the Castle class-- It is an excellent subject for modeling. The hull has all the qualities of a well designed ship made to go where the seas are rough and the submarines plentiful.... << Captain Walker, RN, would have appreciated that last comment I think! Also-- >> The fictional crew was re-assigned to a River class escort (another under-represented but important ship type of WWII) after losing their corvette, HMS Compass Rose, to a submarine's torpedo... << Victor--this has the makings for a great (series of?) article in Model Ship Journal!! These were two crucial designs--but I've not seen much about them elsewhere. As for the movie "Cruel Sea" itself, thank goodness it was made, as it is, in my opinion, one of the finest war films ever. I hope it is available on DVD someday--Just think of the supplemental material that COULD be added--a tour of HMCS Sackville, a short "lesson" on WW II asw and wolfpack tactics, and perhaps some of the interview with Peter Gretton from the old "World at War" series might be incorporated...---I want to be a producer! Ah to dream....about what could be done. Cheers, Phil Lord -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: Classic Warships Steve Wiper, could you please contact me off list? I want to send you some money! (haven't been able to get through to you for a few weeks, so thought I'd try this route). Thanks, Devin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Clifford Franklin Subject: Italian Decks of WWII Hi Art According to an article written by Falk Pletscher in the 1995/3 issue of Plastic Ship Modeller, the Italians used a different dark grey for their decks. It was called Grigio Ferro (Iron grey), or alternately, Grigio Ponte (Bridge Grey), and was said to be matched by Revell paint # R77. I have used this colour on models of Italian warships, and it looks about right. Grigio Ferro or Grigio Ponte are not listed on the Snyder & Short paint chip set. cheers Cliff Franklin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: 1:350 ARIZONA GUYS AND GALS, DOES ANYONE KNOW THE STATUS OF THE ABOVE. I'VE BEEN HEARING RUMORS, BUT NOTHING SOLID. DAVID -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Bruce Ross" Subject: BB Fighting Tops Greetings all, Got a couple of questions regarding the fighting tops of the Pearl Harbor BB's. I think that I can safely say based on the all the discussion lately that the BB's were in MS1, but (and here's the first question), anyone want to hazard a guess at the interior color of the fighting tops? I'm guessing either white or a light grey. Second question, does anyone know or have diagrams of what the interior arrangement was in the tops? I'm thinking of building a large scale BB and wanted to open the windows which as you can all guess means interior arrangement and color. Anyway, there are the questions who'll be the first to jump in?? best, Bruce Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ELLshipmodeler@aol.com Subject: Re: Don Preul's Models Don will be a speaker at the Nautical Research Guild Conference in Rockville, MD the weekend of Oct 6. All are invited. Gene Larson Alexandria, Virginia Member, NRG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume