Subject: SMML VOL 1298 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 04:11:39 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: KM Scharnhorst 2: Hood & Essex 3: Re: Kit instructions (or NOT) 4: Re: HMS Caroline 5: Why I can get a model built 6: Re: Kit Instructions (or not) 7: Pacific Front Hobbies-Bill Gruner's Dad 8: Re: Morison's history of the US Navy in WWII 9: Re: Kit instructions (or NOT) 10: Re: Kit instructions (or NOT) 11: HMS Caroline 12: HMS Agincourt part 2 13: Re: Kit instructions (or NOT) 14: ICM Hood - yes again 15: Re: HMS Caroline 16: Re: HMS Caroline 17: Re: USS Houston Colours 18: HR Fittings -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: SMML site update 2: Queensland Model Hobby Expo 3: Re: IPMS(USA) Nats-Chicago 4: Commander Series Models at the US IPMS Nationals 5: Case rule at the IPMS(USA) Nats -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Hood & Essex -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: royrichey@att.net Subject: KM Scharnhorst A passing note. Saw that Zenith Books (WWW.motorbooks.com) is offering two videos on the Scharnhorst. The Scharnhorst video, Pt. 1, 1935 to Operation Cerberus. color & B&W 75 min. and Pt. 2 1943- The Final Year, color & B&W 56 min. They are listed at USD 29.95 each. Roy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: James Corley Subject: Hood & Essex Stevens International is now listing release dates and prices for these two kits. Hood 4th Qtr $129.95 Essex 1st Qtr $149.95 Now that the distributors are beginning to actually expect these kits, I will too. James AAA Hobby Supply 1474 Roswell Road Marietta, GA 30062 770-973-5666 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: downscope@earthlink.com Subject: Re: Kit instructions (or NOT) From: "John Sheridan" >> I Yeah, since there is a large contigent of plastic kit makers banging on the door to make new kits of every ship imaginable in all scales, I recommend that you hold your breath until one of your beloved plastic kit makers produces all of the ship models you desire. They should be done, oh in about the year 2150. << Jeez, John, remind me never to come to you for assistance. Reads like you need some granola in your diet. How is a first time resin buyer supposed to know all the things you listed? Osmosis? Instead of helping someone who was frustrated, you just likely turned him off to ships for good. Nice move. Kevin Wenker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Alan Roots" Subject: Re: HMS Caroline Andy Jones wrote >> On a recent visit to HMS Belfast with my colonial friend Rhino Bones I bought the book 'Cruisers in Camera' by Roger Hayward. Mr Hayward informs me that the Jutland survivor HMS Caroline is still afloat and in the hands of the Royal Navy. I can find little or nothing out about the current state of this ship or even where she is. Does anyone know more? Is there a preservation movement/society for her or any definite long term preservation plans? Any info would be appreciated. << Hi Andy I Found the following info at http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk RNR Training Centre Location - Caroline HMS CAROLINE BFPO 806 TEL: 028 9073 9880 FAX: 028 9046 0644 Brief history: HMS CAROLINE is the only remaining RNR unit embarked in the original drill ship of that name. A Caroline Class Light Cruiser of 3,750 tons displacement, HMS CAROLINE was launched at Birkenhead on 28 January 1914; she was commissioned on 4 December 1914 and joined the Grand Fleet at Scapa Flow. Oil-fired boilers driving geared steam turbines developing 40,000 shaft horse power (4 propellor shafts) gave her a maximum speed of 29 knots. Her main armament originally consisted of 2x6", 7x4" and 1x3" guns and 2xtwin 21" torpedo tubes. With a ship's company of 17 officers and 272 ratings, she spent most of the Great War as part of the 4th Light Cruiser Squadron which played an active role in the Battle of Jutland (May 1916). CAROLINE was converted to her present role in 1924 as a Depot and Training Ship- becoming the Headquarters of Ulster Division Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve (RNVR). Current strength as follows: Officers.27..(male)..5...(female) Ratings..44..(male).46...(female) Drill nights (day of week and times): Thursday 2000 - 2200 Affiliated units: BROADSWORD SCC BANGOR GRAMMAR Hope this answers your question Regards Alan Sunny Surrey UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Why I can get a model built I'm writing you to let you know that I have recently been diagnosed with a very serious condition and there's no hope I will ever recover. The scientific world is frantically searching for a cure. This is an ailment many of us suffer from and may not as yet have been diagnosed, however now you may be able to discuss it with your loved ones and try to explain what really happened to you all those times you tried so hard to accomplish something and didn't. I call it the "But First Syndrome." You know, it's when I decide to do the laundry. I start down the hall and notice the newspaper on the table. Okay, I'm going to do the laundry.... BUT FIRST I'm going to read the newspaper. After that, I notice the mail on the table. Okay, I'll just put the newspaper in the recycle stack.... BUT FIRST I'll look through that pile of mail and see if there are any bills to be paid. Yes, now where's the checkbook? Oops....there's the empty glass from yesterday on the coffee table. I'm going to look for that checkbook.... BUT FIRST I need to put the glass in the sink. I head for the kitchen, look out the window, notice my poor flowers need a drink of water. I put the glass in the sink, and darn it, there's the remote for the TV on the kitchen counter. What's it doing here? I'll just put it away.... BUT FIRST I need to water those plants. Head for door and.... Aaaagh! Stepped on the cat. Cat needs to be fed. Okay, I'll put that remote away and water the plants.... BUT FIRST I need to feed the cat.... AT the end of day: Laundry is not done, newspapers are still on the floor, glass is still in the sink, bills are unpaid, checkbook is still missing, and the cat ate the remote control.... AND, when I try to figure out how come nothing got done all day, I'm baffled, because I KNOW I was BUSY ALL DAY!! I realize this condition is serious....and I should get help! BUT FIRST....I think I'll check my Email!!! Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Kit Instructions (or not) Take this for what it's worth.... I own several resin kits. I am not an experienced modeler. I have not built them yet (but have done many fittings to ID parts, etc). The instructions from most resin ship firms do tend to be a bit vauge. Okay, they aren't Tamiya quality, but I didn't expect them to be either given what I understand about these firms. Resin ship models represent trade offs. You may have to spend more time researching the subject to ID parts, etc. However, the better you know the subject, the more accurate your project is going to be. Similarly, the kits I've seen are so well researched by the manufacturers that the fiddle-factor (need to fix to accurize) is quite low. I spent $300 on my ISW California, along with another $75 in research materials. Comparatively, I only spent $55 on my Tamiya Missouri, but expect to spend in the neighborhood of $250 in brass, styrene bits, and research materials to do it right. Add to that, the fiddle factor to get the Tamiya kit up to par is going to be quite extensive. And if it wasn't for the resin guys, where in hades would I ever have found a 1:350 California (answer...I wouldn't have). Maybe the instructions aren't the greatest in the world, but the trade offs IMO outweigh that one problem a hundred fold. Besides, if you haven't figured it out yet, some of us here enjoy the research as much as we do building the kits. That's my take on this... Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: frederick wagner Subject: Pacific Front Hobbies-Bill Gruner's Dad Bill Gruner's dad is Bud Gruner, who commanded USS Skate (SS-305)during WWII. Skate is best known for having sunk a light cruiser, the IJN Agano. A few years ago Bill and Bud helped the designers of the Sub SIM, "Silent Hunter." In addition to the game itself, there is an oral history on submarine life and tactics and the man recounting his experiences is Bud Gruner. Fritz Wagner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: frederick wagner Subject: Re: Morison's history of the US Navy in WWII For those wanting a sailor's eye view of battle I suggest they look at Walter Karig's five volume "Battle Report." The first volume came out during the war and it contained nothing that would be of interest to the enemy at the time. The remaining four volumes were published shortly after the war and much technical data was still classified and operational data hadn't yet been collected. If you compare Morison with Karig you would prefer Morison for historical accuracy but you would enjoy Karig for the drama and individual accounts of battle. Because Karig is writing a patriotic history, you also won't find a critical examination of commanders. Of course Morison didn't exactly dwell on command weaknesses either. :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Kit instructions (or NOT) I do agree with John Sheridan point about the instructions for resin kits. While it would have been great to receive a CAD generated and comprehensive set of instructions it is the quality and accuracy of the resin models itself which decides if the the kit is worth buying. Let's not put the coach before the horses here. As long as part's list is there and a decent exploded view... The kit buyer own research is important even with products of renowned firms but with resin models it is doubly so. It is and always will be the case that if your research disagrees with manufacturer's instructions,two times out of three you are right and they are wrong. The case in point might be Modelkrak's "Suvorov". ALL ships of "Borodino" class featured a secondary (navigation) bridge just before the second funnel. Modelkrak "Suvorow" does not have this bridge. All drawings and photos of the ships I have seen so far show the bridge present right to the time of Tsushima Battle, all that is except the drawings in Modelkrak instructions. Now how did they manage that??? Did they forgot to produce the bridge and just typex it out of the drawings instead of making the missing bit?? Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: ELLshipmodeler@aol.com Subject: Re: Kit instructions (or NOT) No matter what is said "in favor" of the manufacturers, for the money paid for these kits there is no excuse for inferior plans, instructions, moldings, etc. "Let the buyer beware" should not apply here. If a more experienced builder and backup references are required to build a model from the kit supplied, then it should say so up front in bold letters on the box and in the advertising. When you are burned once with one of these kits, you will probably never return, and that is not what this hobby needs. Gene Larson Alexandria, Virginia Member, NRG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMS Caroline Hi Andy D K Brown includes photos of her in her current state in his book The Grand Fleet, Warship Design and Development 1906-1922. Basically she is a reserve training ship but only the hull is original. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: HMS Agincourt part 2 I would like to thank all those list members who responded to my post about HMS Agincourt. I also feel that further explanation is needed. I do have general informations about the ship including drawings and photos, what I am trying to establish is if there are any firm references as to her configuration in 1916 so that I could scratch build the ship following the M.W.Williams article but to reconfigure it to her appearance at the Battle of Jutland. According to R.A.Burt there are differences between how the ship looked in 1915 and 1916. He writes that in 1916 after control top and mainmast tripod legs were removed and light, short pole fitted - was it done before or after the battle?? Further he writes that in 1916-17 fore control top was improved and enlarged with narrow front and 24inch SL removed from foremast and mounted on lower bridge - once again before or after Jutland and where exactly on lower bridge?? AFAIK the platforms over the aft control tower were reconfigured more than once during 1916 period. And how exactly did those platforms looked?? I appreciate that there may not be any clear answers to my guestions, but hey - it would be great to know if there are. Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Poore, Devin" Subject: Re: Kit instructions (or NOT) A problem with resin ship kits in the past has indeed been with the instructions. My recent purchases and what I've seen of samples on the web lately, however, indicate that the major manufactures are greatly improving directions. Hey, they're making an effort and getting better, so I'm happy. Besides, if these kits came with no instructions at all, I'd probably still buy them. I build WWII US Navy destroyers, cruisers and carriers in 1/350th scale; by my count the Tamiya Fletcher is the only styrene kit that fits my criteria. Resin's the only game in town (until I get better at scratch building, that is). Devin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Colin Ritchie Subject: ICM Hood - yes again Say this posted on the RMS newsgroup to-day , make of it what you will.. >> In response to everybody, today we recvd a fax from Steven International, an east coast warehouse, with the ICM HOOD listed as a 4Q01 release date @ 129.95 and the ICM ESSEX as a 1Q02 release date @ 149.95. These prices are valid until they ship (if they ship!). We will keep you updated. James AAA Hobby Supply 770-973-5666 << No connection with AAA, the prices quoted are dollar's Colin Ritchie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: HMS Caroline HMS Caroline became a drill ship for the RNVR at Belfast and is quite possibly still serving in that capacity. Perhaps a list member living in that area could confirm Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: wem Subject: Re: HMS Caroline She's in Belfast, Northern Ireland, owned and maintained by the Royal Naval Reserve. She has had most if not all of her superstructure removed, as well as her engines and boilers. Apparently she is not open to the public but is used for training Sea Scouts and the like. John Snyder, A.B. White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: wem Subject: Re: USS Houston Colours Hi Roger, If you're doing Houston "pre-war", those aren't the colours she was wearing when she was lost. Pre-war, she was in Standard Navy Gray #5, with Standard Deck Gray #20 steel decks and holystoned teak decks. At the time she was lost, she probably (emphasis "probably") was wearing Cavite Blue, an unofficial colour mixed up by the Asiatic Fleet in late 1941. All three of those colours are in the Snyder & Short US Navy Set 1 paint chips, and Standard Navy Gray #5 and Standard Deck Gray #20 will be among the forthcoming line of Colourcoats paints from White Ensign Models. John Snyder, B.I.T. White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Lou Meszaros Subject: HR Fittings Can anyone comment about HR Fittings, in reference to quality, service (shipment time)? http://www.hrprod.com/ship_fittings/ship_fittings.html Thanks in advance, Lou -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mistress Lorna Subject: SMML site update Hi everybody, I'm pleased to say that the SMML site at www.smmlonline.com just keeps growing and growing. Something new in almost every section this time with a new gallery in the Mainbrace section for Paul Glitz .... USS Pennsylvania photos added to misc ship pages ... HMS Victory and HMS Warrior and Moscow Central Army Museum shots added to walkaround page (paying special attention on the Warrior page will give you a preview of a certain happening in August ;-) ) .... Archives 1290-1298 added ... Updated links page ..... Hasegawa 1/700 U Boats Type VIIC/IXC and Loose Cannon Productions 1/700 USS Admirable class minesweeper added to kit reviews .... Reviews of the following books added: U-Boats - History, Development and Equipment 1914-1945, RN Camouflage 1942, Q class destroyers and frigates of the RAN, Plastic Ship Modeler No 24, 50 years of Airfix and RAN Capital Ships - battles and badges. Hmm, the more people keep sending stuff in, the more intriguing the idea of building a ship model becomes .... better keep sending stuff in before the effect wears off :-) Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Shane Weier Subject: Queensland Model Hobby Expo Hi guys, Just a notice to Australian members about the Queensland Model Hobbies Expo, which this year will be held: 25-26 August Brisbane Table Tennis Association Centre 86 Green Terrace, Windsor Brisbane, Australia All the usual model show features - Trade stands Club Displays Raffles Qld Scale Modelling Championship Demonstrations ..as much modelling talk as you can stand Contest entry forms and further information from myself at: sdw@qld.mim.com.au (Actually - the show isn't restricted to Aussies, several times in the last 4 years we've had international entrants carrying off armfulls of kits and pocketsfull of awards!) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Bruce Burden Subject: Re: IPMS(USA) Nats-Chicago I'll be in Chicago, by way of Sault Ste. Marie, MI. I always wanted to explore the locks from ground level, and "Engineer Day" will allow me do to exactly that. Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: ironship@vic.com (Jon Warneke) Subject: Commander Series Models at the US IPMS Nationals Hi Everyone, Commander Series Models will be at the US IPMS Nationals in the main vendor room. We'll have plenty of kits (armor, ships, and figures) from Our line available, as well as photoetch sets from Tom's Modelworks (don't know what until we get it), and an assortment of kits from Cottage Industry Models (same deal here as with the Tom's stuff). Also, we'll have on display some of the new kits for the fall, and some other stuff Ted and I are working on. Come by and see us. Jon Warneke Commander Series Models, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Case rule at the IPMS(USA) Nats Don't forget about the new case rule in affect at the Nationals this year. I can allow in some instances, cases to be left on the model. However, this must be done on a case by case basis (no pun intended). The model must meet certain requirements before cases will be allowed to remain during judging. This new rule applies to ALL models in the room. So if you wish your model to be considered for exception to the case rule, find me personally or put a note on the model requesting the exception. If I sign the entry form under your model, the case can remain. If not, you gotta remove the case for judging. IF YOU DON'T, THE MODEL WILL NOT BE JUDGED! Ship models MUST meet the following requirements to be granted exception from the case rule. You may of course, leave the case on your models during public viewing. UNLESS YOU HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION FROM ME, ALL CASES MUST BE REMOVED FOR JUDGING! (1) If the model is large enough that removing the case could pose a risk to the model itself or surrounding models, or modelers removing the case, an exception to the rule will be granted. (2) The case cannot restrict the judges from viewing the model in the same manner as all other models. IF IT DOES, YOU WILL BE AT A DISADVANTAGE TO MODELS WITHOUT CASES. Rusty White IPMS/USA Head Ship Judge "That's mighty bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: James Corley Subject: Hood & Essex AAA Hobby will offer the new ICM kits to SMML at a special 25% discount (rounded): The ICM Hood is being offered at a pre-release price of $97.50 + S&H. If this kit is similar in weight (4 lbs) to the Koenig, the total price should be somewhere around $97 for USPS PM in the US. Air Mail to Canada would make this price $116 ($15.50), while Express Mail would be and extra $4 (19.25). Other international rates will, of course, vary. The Essex kit will be offered at $112.50 plus S&H. I would guess 6 lbs, but that is just a guess. These prices are valid until the kit is released. After the first kits ship to us, the discount will be 15% (Hood=$110.50, Essex=$127.50). We will let you know a firm date once we know it. James AAA Hobby Supply 1474 Roswell Road Marietta, GA 30062 770-973-5666 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume