Subject: SMML VOL 1302 Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:36:50 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Iced Coffee 2: HMS Agincourt 3: Re: modern naval guns 4: Re: Naval training center 5: Sloop of War Sphinx 6: Pirate Ships 7: more K-19 pics 8: Website for Tonkin Gulf Club 9: building instructions 10: Re: Carolines Yello Bikini.... 11: Turrets and Capsizing 12: Instructions 13: Re: Agincourt 14: Re: Modern guns 15: Re: Naval Training Ct 16: Jutland 1916 book 17: Re: supply ship colors 18: Re: Minbari 19: Re: Bulges in modern guns 20: Re: Japanese submarine I-58 missing in action 21: Re: NTC GLAKES 22: Liberty Ships coloring 23: Resin vs Plastic 24: Floating Drydock 25: Rigging Wire 26: Re: Liberty ships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Cottage Ind Models At "The Naval Base" 2: GMM 1/350 USS Arizona set -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "John Rule" Subject: Iced Coffee >> Hmmmm, must be a shipmodeling thing. Just this morning I had a large (read industrial size) Dunkin' Donuts Iced Coffee......regular of course. (For those of you who live outside of Eastern Massachusetts, a regular coffee is with cream and sugar) << Glad you told us that John. Duh! And we outside Massachusetts thought it was to keep our bowels regular. WTIC John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Maurice O'Brien" Subject: HMS Agincourt Shane The thread on HMS Agincourt seems to have missed the plan by http://lonestar.texas.net/~glover/george.html I have a copy and think it is quite good. Regards Maurice -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Jon Warneke Subject: Re: modern naval guns Hi Everyone, A question I can use some of that platoon leader stuff on... >> These include a Vickers 4.5 inch Mk 8 that has a bulge midway down the barrel, and another bulge at the end of the barrel. I've seen similar bulges on some tank guns. My guess is that the bulge at the end of the barrel is a recoil reducer. I have no guess about the function of the bulge in the middle of the barrel. Can somebody tell me what these bulges are for and how they work? << OK, the forward bulge is a muzzle brake, and it redirects the propellant gases to reduce the amount of recoil the gun itself generates. Most US tank weapons don't use these anymore, but if you look at pre-105mm vehicles you'll see them. Now, before I go further, what I'm describing comes from my experiences with the 105mm L7 tank gun which was used on the M48A5 and M60A3 main battle tanks I crewed on. This weapon uses a round which had as a propellant that is ammonium nitrate based, and it is very irritating to smell. With that said, here's the purpose of the bulge about midway down the barrel. Ships (and tanks) are usually moving, and this causes windflow. This windflow has a tenancy to blow any residual remains of the propellant back into the fighting compartment (turret) which then causes the crew to gag and become ineffectual. This is why the bulge you mention is there on the barrel. It's called a bore evacuator. What it does is to redirect some of the vacuum of the round passing some small holes in the barrel into it, then uses that vacuum to suck the propellant gases following the round into it and expelling them out the muzzle rather than the breech. If you watch one of these guns fire, you'll see a small plume of white smoke come out the muzzle after the gun's fired. This keeps the ammonium nitrate fumes in the turret to a minimum (an annoying odor). This was developed because in larger warships there was a compressed air system to clear the guns, but a system like that is too bulky for a tank. And that's the story of the bore evacuator. Jon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: Naval training center Hi SMMLies, Answer to "is there a museum at the naval training area at Chicago". I went to boot camp there in Oct. 1979 and I didn't see any museum there. I'm the kind of guy why would have found one if there was one but on the other hand we really didn't have much time at all to do anything like that. For those who served you will agree that boot camp is not a social gathering place to have a hen session or even do fun things like go to a museum. So I can't give you a 100% correct answer if there is a museum or not. KTB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: rolie muise Subject: Sloop of War Sphinx Thanks to all who replied with info on HMS Sphinx(1749). Seems that the book,"The Sailing Navy List" is the one to go to for info. Is there anyone out there who could scan and send me the design draught lines for the Dolphin from the book.pg 87.? TIA. rolie in Nova Scotia, home of Bluenose II -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Frederick Ward" Subject: Pirate Ships Seek information on modeling ships used by pirates (late 1600s) Source of kits, plans, etc. Fred -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Bill Daisley" Subject: more K-19 pics Just to follow up on Mac's updates on the K-19 movie ... here is another site with interesting pictures & details on the ships (boats ?) being modified & filmed... http://www.subexpo.com/k19/ cheers Bill TGH {VP & CEO} not wearing skimpies on my head in the basement @ BAD Productions Est. F'ton '94 MAD R&D Brewing Trouble since '98 * Business Cards have been printed.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Website for Tonkin Gulf Club http://tonkingulfyachtclub.org/ This site can be found on our "Naval Links" probably the best around. http://www.modelshipbuilding.com/navallinks.htm Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "hans en joke bosma" Subject: building instructions Hello, all members. I have a problem. After much searching I found a "Poseidon" OSA classe missile boat. I was very happy!! BUT There were no building instructions in the box! Can anybody help me?. Pay all expenses for copying and snake mail Much obliged b.t.w. I am re-building my "Soleil Royal " It would be very convenient for me If anybody can supply me with a proper rigging plan for this ship (The Heller instruction sheet e.g. ????,or... Gladly pay all expenses you make for me. Thanks again Hans -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: stillmo@mb.sympatico.ca Subject: Re: Carolines Yello Bikini.... Caroline in a yellow bikini.....I am forming a picture here....please tell me more. RDB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Turrets and Capsizing I've gotten into a discussion with an Italian friend of mine regarding battleship turrets and capsizing. Started out as a discussion about PH and the movie, and has evolved. He's been asking whether or not the weight of a battleship's main gun turrets cause them to fall out when/if the ship capsizes? He points out the Bismarck's gravity mounted turrets, which if I understand correctly were unique. This started when he noted that in the PH movie that the Oklahoma's turrets didn't "dislocate." I explained they remained in place because they weren't gravity mounts and the ship didn't completely turn upside down. His question is how such a heavy structure can stay in place if/when the ship turns turtle. I'm not enough of an engineer to explain this (and I haven't studied the specifics). I've suggested it depends on how it's actually mounted into the ship, but he wants specifics. Can anyone here help me out on this one. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Michael Bartel Subject: Instructions Well, we resin/metal manufacturers have never had it easy, have we? Instructions have indeed been the weak point in many kits, including my own. My recent Fantasque kit has perhaps the best IHP ship kit instructions I have produced to date, but I am the first to admit that I need more refining in some areas. It really is true that after a while you just want to get the kit available after having done all the production work, and you want to see some return. I prefer to make up my own instruction sheets because only I know how I want the kit to be assembled to get the best result. Also, between the time the kit is designed and the time I build the first prototype, there are many things that can change in assembly. Sometimes things don't fit like you thought, or you have found a better way of representing something. Then, I have control over how the instructions can show the modeler how I intended the final product to appear. Anyway, take it easy on the smaller manufacturer. We try to develop thick skins (they are necessary), but also remember that we are only human, and not big nameless, faceless conglomerates. Speaking for myself, I for one have always tried to make up an instruction sheet that is appropriate for the particular kit, and as my ship kits get more complete and complex, my instructions will be appropriately complex to match them. Mike Bartel IHP http://ihphobby.tripod.com 'Of course you can't flap your arms and fly to the moon. After a while, you'd run out of air to push against.' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "graham and melanie" Subject: Re: Agincourt Try The Ships Plans Library http://lonestar.texas.net/~glover/george.html then click the "other warship plans scrole down until you get to Brazil and you will find "Rio De Janeiro" or in other words Agincourt. If it is the right set let me know how good they are :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Modern guns Hi Norman, AFAIK those bulges in the middle of the barrel are fume evacuators and their function is to prevent propellant gases escaping back to the turret once the breech is opened. Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: Re: Naval Training Ct Darren: Great Lakes Naval Training Center does have a base museum and they very well might have the information you are looking for. Take care, Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL NRG member -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Jutland 1916 book Hi Guys Recently Pacific Front Hobbies announced from Osprey -Jutland 1916. This book's price was listed as TBA. Well it's been out for a year and goes for $18.95., it is campaign book #72. I'm still reading it so I can't give a review yet. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: wem Subject: Re: supply ship colors Hi Christopher, For colours of ALTMARK, you need to take a look at the video "Colour Camera at Sea", which has footage of her capture by HMS COSSACK. John Snyder, A.B. White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: joe.sus@att.net Subject: Re: Minbari After seeing the misquote three times in Vol 1301, I can hold my tongue no longer. I believe the proper wording is: "The only human to defeat a Minbari CRUISER is behind me...". We must honor our war heroes, but not at the cost of historical accuracy. Fictionally yours, Joe Suszynski Egyptian god of Frustration Hi Joe, Actually you're both wrong ;-) The actual quote from Severed Dreams is: "Only one human captain has ever survivied battle with the Minbari Fleet. He is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, BE somewhere else" Shane & Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: LBart73@aol.com Subject: Re: Bulges in modern guns On tanks, the bulge in the middle of the barrel is a bore evacuator. These vent poisonous fumes from the combustion of the propellent before the breech opens for the next round. If the gun is automatic and there's no one in the turrest, I don't know why a bore evacuator would be needed. Larry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: " Jim Mc" Subject: Re: Japanese submarine I-58 missing in action Paul, I was terribly disappointed to hear about your model being stolen. I truly hope you are able to recover it w/o any damage to it. I, like many of us here have simply looked at your work over on Steelnavy, and simply drooled for hours on end. Unfortunately, somebody at the fair decided to go a bit further. I don't mean to be all doom and gloom, but your chances are probably not good. A pal once had a model stolen, and he took the matter in stride. We expected a long ride home listening to this guy vent and fume, but he didn't. We asked him what he was in such a good mood for, and his reply? "Anyone else's model good enough to get stolen?". It was his only consolation, and yeah, it was weak, but he ran with it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: " Jim Mc" Subject: Re: NTC GLAKES I'm not even sure it is open anymore. I may be wrong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Randy Short Subject: Liberty Ships coloring Ok guys, what are you basing Ms14 use on ?. What is your documentation? I know a lot of Liberties wore 5-H Haze Gray. The only navy stuff to be in Ms14 were yard craft. I'm interested in the documentation for the merchant stuff. The Brits had an MSS that was 20% reflectance at one time, but went to a 30% in 43. Ocean Gray is 17%. Let's get some dialoge going on merchant stuff. This area needs a lot of work. Anybody that can produce some good documentation can really help their fellow SMMLies. Randy Short -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "hugh1lottie2" Subject: Resin vs Plastic >> On the other hand resin kit producers are not giving us any favours. I am a designer myself and althrou I am not connected with ships or armor models I do know that a great number of kits are produced because designer himself wanted a model not available commecially and after putting all the hard labour into the process has decided to share his baby with the rest of the public. If they make some money out of it -great, if they don't -it is sad,but not a big deal really. If company folds it is mostly because designer forgot to do the basic market research beforehand and/or thought that his idea and final result are terrific but he was the only person to think so. << I fail to see why producing a kit that you enjoy and undoubtly have references is a sin. If every resin producer followed your advice and only the most popular market researched ship were produced we would be stuck with twenty resin Hoods, Iowas, Bismarks and Yamatos ad nauseam. The plastic thing all over again. Think God there is someone that will take a chance. The premise with resin is that it doesn't take that much cash to do a resin kit as a plastic kit and more daring examples of kits can be exicuted. I think that Tamiya and Hasagawa with their resources have had kits that were their "baby" and haven't sold that well. Gaudium certaminis Hugh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Graeme Martin Subject: Floating Drydock Hi all. Just a note ref. the difficulties some of you were having with deliveries from Floating Drydock. I understand from friends in England that Tom Walkowiak has been in the UK until recently working as an expert on a submarine film "Below" due out at the end of the year. He is now back in the states and by the end of the year will be devoting his time solely to the business, (at the moment he is still employed) so dispatch should be quicker. My friends who will remain anonymous have known Tom for over ten years and vouch for the man and his business. kind regards, Graeme Martin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Andy Airlie" Subject: Rigging Wire Steve James is spot on, I worked as a Xerox engineer and the Corona/Corotron wire is possibly the best thing for 1/700 rigging possible, Its immensely strong and the diameter is true over the whole reel (Try that with stretched sprue!), usually the right colour and needs no painting. I'll ask one of my friends still there, to see if I can find out manufacturer. One reel of this wire should last even the most avid kit builder a few years. Best wishes, Andy Airlie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Ian Wrenford" Subject: Re: Liberty ships Hi SMMLies, Thanks all for the assistance on the Liberty Ship model some weeks ago. I've opted for a 1:350th scratchbuild which is coming along well (waterline hull, superstructure basically complete but not detailed). It's going to be the SS (?) Nevada - which was the post-war Amy Lowell. Something a bit different to the Jeremiah O'Brien or John W Brown being disarmed, and looking a bit like a tramp steamer..... I'm particularly keen on learning any techniques anyone has for scratchbuilding 1:350 liberty sized ventilators? Failing that, any relatively cheap aftermarket suppliers (bearing in mind the Aussie peso!). The Liberty ship has copious quantities of these and I'm at a loss to how to scratchbuild them other than raiding my Academy Titanic!!. thanks, Ian -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Cottage Ind Models At "The Naval Base" http://www.modelshipbuilding.com/civil_war.html Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Loren Perry Subject: GMM 1/350 USS Arizona set Gold Medal Models will be producing a new 1/350 scale PE set for the all-new plastic (not resin) kit of the USS Arizona that is scheduled for release later this summer (we've been asked by its manufacturer not to reveal their identity or any other important details until they've cleared us to do so, therefore any requests for more details on this new kit cannot be answered just yet.) Like our popular 1/429 scale PE set for Revell's classic kit of the same battleship, the new PE set will allow the builder to construct his or her model in a choice of three variations: 1. a 1930's version; 2. as she appeared in 1941 at Pearl Harbor; 3. as sistership Pennsylvania ca. 1941 - early 1942. As usual, extensive 3-D relief-etching is employed, and the parts are carefully designed to precisely fit the kit's plastic parts, including custom-fitted chain railing for the main deck and window details for the fighting tops. A test piece of this large new PE set is now being etched at the factory and is due here next week at which time we'll confirm their correct fit to the plastic kit parts. The instruction sheets are also being printed at this time. For updates as well as more information, see the What's New section at the GMM web page: www.goldmm.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume