Subject: SMML VOL 1312 Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 01:18:20 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: WW1 Destroyers 2: Kingfishers 3: Re: Banner Arizona 4: Wing Fold on a OS2U Kingfisher 5: Victorian Era houseboat 6: Improving Revell Flower Class 7: Re: USS Alaska and Kingfishers 8: Re: HMS Kelly/Roger Hill 9: GLS not expensive 10: ship plans 11: Re: Sirmar 12: HMCS WETASKIWIN 13: Kingfisher OS2U.....wings dont fold! 14: Kangnam 1/400 scale USS Missouri WWII Version 15: OS2U Kingfisher wing fold information 16: production run sizes 17: Re: Kingfisher & boats -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Sirmar 1/72 FLower fittings 2: Books FS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Cooper, Mike" Subject: WW1 Destroyers Dear SMMLies Just to prove I haven't gone 100% tankie... I'm looking at building a couple of WW1 destroyers - they should be an easy enough scatch. In the case of RN I'm happy about the vertical tones I think, but has anyone seen anything on deck colours? My guess is lino and painted metal. As to the Germans - I've heard "black", but does anyone know more/better/different. Mike Cooper Sticky sweaty Reading, UK PS. Bangors - I scratched one some years ago - fully recommend the ativity, its fun and easy enough, as they're very boxy. I did describe the actiity for IPMS MAgazine, but I can't find my own article! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "lcp9" Subject: Kingfishers Hi Rob, The KINGFISHERS did not have folding wings, for this reason most of the hanger equipped cruisers retained their SEAGULL aircraft until the SEAHAWK became available. UNITED STATES AIRCRAFT By Swanbrough & Bowers says USS Guam got the first available SEAHAWKS in OCT. 1944. I can send you a drawing that shows the folding wings if you wish. Regards, David Angelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Richa5011@aol.com Subject: Re: Banner Arizona Well, here I am in Chicago at the IPMS USA Nationals...great turn out of models and vendors for the first day and it will only get better. There are already more ships on the contest table than at last years event in Dallas! What did I find at the second vendor table on the right as I walked in, but a vendor with four of the Banner Arizona kits...I looked at the open one they had on display (yes, I actually bought one) and the following are my comments: The bad news....The model clearly owes it's ancestry to the Revell offering as it has the same flat bottom shape with the bilge keel way too high on the slab side. The good news...38 dollars US!!!!!!!!! Compared with the cost of ICM's offerings or resin kits, both higher in quality, but much higher in price...this kit is very workable. That being said...the Banner offering has some improvements over the Revell kit, such as the hull being split upper and lower so that a waterline version may be made (the lower hull shape being so awful that is what I am planning ot do). Though some of the parts (masts, cranes, 5" gun screens) are way too heavy just as they were on the Revell kit and will have to be replaced, other parts, notable the 5" guns and bridge structures have been entirely redone and are much improved. 'The upper hull is well shaped and "looks right". The entire kit is flash free. The kit is generally spartan of fine detail...but that can be added. The biggest knock against the kit, besides the lower hull is the way the deck has been molded. Both the forward and aft most portions are seperate peices...how I'm going to handle those seems is going to be a problem. I am anxiously awaiting Loren's GMM detail set for this kit. If it is anything like the one he did for the Revell kit, it will go a long ways to cleaning up the Banner kit. One final point, if you are going to build this kit, start shopping for new 1/350 scale aircraft...the two Kingfishers that are provided are horrible...!!!! In the overall, the kit is NOT the best thing I've seen in recent years...but is quite workable as a waterline model. For those interested in full hull, you will have your work cut out for you trying to fix the lower hull. But the price makes it worth owning...a decent modeler can make a good model from this kit with reasonable effort. Nat Richards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Stuart Batchelor" Subject: Wing Fold on a OS2U Kingfisher >> On a related topic, does anybody have a photo or drawing showing how the wings folded on the OS2U Kingfisher, float equipped version? << Rob, The Kingfisher was one those naval aircraft that the wings DID NOT fold. I'm guessing the theory was there were so few of them taking such a relatively small space on a cruiser or battleship that wing folding was not required, that, or the weight penalty on such a small aircraft wasn't worth it. As to the hanger doors, sorry, can't help you there. Stuart Batchelor Tulsa, OK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "william k code" Subject: Victorian Era houseboat I was asking questions on a Digital modeling list and was asked, since I an a ship modeller if i knew where an interested person could find info on a Victorian Era houseboat used on the Nile called a "Dahabeeyah" she'd like to know if there were plans available to help make a digital boat?? I said I would ask here, but a small craft of this type might be hard to find plans of... any ideas out there?? cheers Bill Code -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Ron Hillsden" Subject: Improving Revell Flower Class Some random thoughts I did HMCS Shediac for R/C when the Matchbox kit came out. These are some random thoughts. You can also see a write up on converting it to R/C on the tips page at: http://members.home.net/vmss/ When I built mine, there were very few 1/72 accessories around, and not a lot of reference material either. There is plenty of reference material now. The best probably is the Anatomy of a Ship series Agassiz. As you folks are finding out, the detail on this kit isn't very good. The only parts available to me were a couple of beautiful little 20 mm mounts for the bridge wings - a friend donated them from an Airfix RAF Rescue Launch kit. Just about everything else was re-worked with detail added (like the weapons). I added a whole bunch more depth charges and racks. The superstructure was rebuilt from sheet styrene. One of the things you have to think about is that the model will get an awful lot of handling if it is an R/C model. It is also out where the public can touch it (show me a kid who doesn't see with his fingers!). And it is in and out of your vehicle, you carry it through doors, and bump into things on the water. Fine detail isn't going to last. Make it robust. I wouldn't worry too much about the top hamper from the photoetch upgrades unless they weigh more than 2 pounds. The model has to be over 5 1/4 pounds to sit on its waterline. You have to add weight anyway, so add useful weight - batteries and details! The corvette was a bit tipsy anyway, so you can overcome the top weight by lowering the ballast. I found the most difficult part was building a boat and davits strong enough to take the abuse an R/C model gets. The rest isn't a lot different than what you have been doing, except the parts are a lot bigger! Fair winds and following seas... Ron Hillsden Victoria BC Canada Flags: http://members.home.net/ron-hillsden/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: USS Alaska and Kingfishers Hi SMMLies, The Alaska hanger bay doors are 18.5 ft. wide X 17 ft. high according to the drawings from the Floating Drydock. The 17 ft in height is from the deck to the bottom of the case that the door rolls into. In 1:700 they will be .291 high and .317 wide. Kingfisher's wings did not fold. So why have a hanger if you can't put your plane in it ? Alaska class was designed with the thought of new planes that would have folding wings. So then we have the SC-1 Seahawk. I built the Classic Warships 1:350 Alaska and thought of having the hanger doors open only after I already had the superstructure glued to the deck with allot of detail on it. This would have been not worth the trouble to bore out the resin and risk destroying the finished super. Poor planning on my part. Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Steve Sobieralski Subject: Re: HMS Kelly/Roger Hill I have just lately been reading the book Destroyer Captain by Roger Hill. Hill commanded the British destroyers Ledbury (Hunt class), Grenville (U class leader) and Jervis (J class leader) during the war. When he assumed command of Jervis he was amazed at the size of the captain's quarters and the sumptuousness of the furnishings. He learned that it had not been known whether Mountbatten would command the Kelly (the K class leader) or the Jervis (the J, K and, I believe, L classes were all built to the same design.), so both ships had received the same "extras" in the captain's area. As it happened the Kelly became the chosen ship, but the various captains of Jervis benefited from the enhanced quarters for the remainder of her service life. I came upon mention of the book while doing research for my long dormant Deans Marine Grenville (Deans also makes a Kelly kit if you are interested in 1/96 scale) and managed to track a copy down through ABE. Its a fascinating book as Hill was present at many of the epic naval operations of the war including convoy PQ17, the Malta relief convoys, Anzio and the Normandy landings. He was also one of the targets of what was probably one of the very first glider bomb attacks and was present at the sinking of the cruiser Charybdis during an ill-fated channel skirmish with German destroyers. Pre-war he served on the Hood and the Penelope, but always wanted to be a destroyer man and hated the big ships. The book, which was published in 1975, says very little about his life either before or after the war and ends abruptly with his relief from command of Jervis for medical reasons. There is, however, a brief mention early on about a post war emigration to New Zealand and I wondered if anyone knows what became of Roger Hill and whether he might still be alive. A highly recommended read. Steve Sobieralski -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Boatbldr" Subject: GLS not expensive >> Even with ALL the DP kits you are still required to use a lot more of the original Revell parts than outlined the above. For example, the whole << Like Chris, I have got most of the GLS kits. Many of the kit parts are still used, not "just the hull", and sometimes combinations of the kit part and a GLS part. For example, GLS supplies latches on some of the Revell watertight doors, as well as for many of the Revell lockers on deck. Updates for the chain/anchor, rivets for some of the air intakes etc... >> a hundred times heavier and wallet a hundred time lighter...... and is it worth it? << Absolutely - I wholeheartedly agree with Chris here. Having had these kits for many months now, I feel I can qualify this further. Many people have mentioned the high price but that, in my opinion, is a false observation. If I was to measure the number of hours I have entertained myself with this project, and the size of the kit produced, then the cost per hour has been very, very reasonable. This form of relaxation is many many hundreds (if not thousands) of times cheaper than the 22 second roller coaster ride my kids went on this weekend. I think few people on this list realise just how big these GLS kits are - don't think 1/700 etch here folks. The deck kit alone is over a meter (more than a yard) of brass! Measured in this way, the cost is in cents per hour. I put it to the jury that this is cheaper (dollars per hour at the bench) than a fully featured, fully provisioned resin kit in 1/350! I understand that Model Ship Journal is doing some work on an extensive review this fall - good reason to sign up :-) There is already a review on SMML and in the June Internet Modeler (Standard disclaimer - don't know the owners of GLS, have never met them, just a happy customer) regards Boatbldr -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "graham and melanie" Subject: ship plans hi can anyone help with plans for HMS Aurora WW11 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "graham and melanie" Subject: Re: Sirmar Try: www.sirmarmodels.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: HMCS WETASKIWIN OH WELL, WHAT CAN YOU EXPEXT FROM FOLKS WHO CALL IT FOOTBALL ON A 110 YD. FIELD? DAVID -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Lump518176@aol.com Subject: Kingfisher OS2U.....wings dont fold! I think the only way to fold the wings of an OS2U was to crash one! Wings dont fold, but a SC-1 Seahawk does have wings that fold........Did Alaska carry these? Jerry Phillips -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Peter K. H. Mispelkamp Subject: Kangnam 1/400 scale USS Missouri WWII Version I just received my copy of this kit - thanks to Bill "the Shipguy" Gruner, and have a couple of questions and an observation or two. A) the kit has some vertical bar-like structures molded on the freeboard part of the hull, but they do not seem to be present in the photographs I have consulted for this period, but they are present on all of the Iowa's in their final configuration. Do I need to remove them? B) I still suspect that this kit is a re-release of the old UPC kit from the 60's, and am very suspicious of the fact that Arii has also released a 1/400 scale USS Missouri. I have some Arii Missouri's on back order and should be able to determine if they are identical kits once they arrive. Does anyone on this list remember the UPC USS Missouri? Has anyone seen both - and - if so - which one is better/more accurate? C) The kit comes with molded on anchor chains - is there a simple way to remove them without damaging the deck? Fortunately - or unfortunately - the Kangnam kit does not have any simulated planking. This feature is very similar to the UPC 1/400 Yamato which I built "all those years ago". D) Has anyone on the list contemplated building this kit - or the Arii one - as any of its sisters as they appeared in WWII? I know the Iowa had a different bridge structure, and that all the ships were probably different in terms of their AAA, radar and possibly seaplane fits. Any ideas would be welcome. Sincerely Peter K. H. Mispelkamp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: OS2U Kingfisher wing fold information >> On a related topic, does anybody have a photo or drawing showing how the wings folded on the OS2U Kingfisher, float equipped version? << Rob: I don't think anyone will be able to supply this information since all models of the OS2U had rigid, and hence, non-folding wings. (chuckle, sorry) The later Curtiss SC-1 and SC-2 Seahawk single-seat catapault seaplanes had folding wings. One of the very best references on this subject matter is the following book: Larkins, William T., "Battleship And Cruiser Aircraft of the United States Navy - 1910-1949", Shiffer Publishing Ltd., Atglen, PA, USA, 1996. A bit spendy at $49.95 U.S. retail, you can find it less expensively on the Internet if you click around a bit. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Member, Nautical Research Guild Tin Can Sailors -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Franz Aigner GmbH" Subject: production run sizes I am wondering in what numbers our beloved ship-kits are being produced. Are these in the thousands, ten thousands, or even more? Richard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Kingfisher & boats Hi Guys Concerning the Alaska's seaplanes . It seems that she carried Kingfishers but the Kingfisher didn't have folding wings. When she recieved the SC-1 Seahawk these were foldable. According to the book Fantail Fighters, the Alaska carried the King Fisher, Seamew, and Seahawk .Also she had one catapult removed after a refit. Now I have the Floating Drydock book on the Juneau CL-52 and it has a drawing showing the amidship deck for boats with four boats and two boats hanging from the boat davitts. Yet the book also says the Juneau had 8 launches A. Two 40 ft motor launches with a capacity of 90 men stowed amidship on boat skids. b. Two 35 ft long motor boats that can carry 27 officers (one of them was the Captain's gig )stowed on top of the 40 ft motor launchs. C. Two 26 ft long whale boats were carried hung from the boat davitts. D. Two 12 ft long punts boats were carried between the 40 ft boats. They could carry 4 men each. I hope this is of help. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: LHDockyard@aol.com Subject: Re: Sirmar 1/72 FLower fittings >> Can anyone steer to me to a good (US) source for the Sirmar detail parts for the 1/72 Flowers? I understand that the Sirmar set is less extensive (and less costly) than those fabulous-looking Parkins sets. I tried Pacific Front, WEM, Floating Drydock and The Dromedary, and none of them list the Sirmar 1/72 fittings.... I'm going to be building my Corvette as an RC model, and I'm also afraid the Parkins sets will introduce too much topside weight. I'd like something better than stock kit parts, especially for the bridge area and the weapons, and I'd like to see what the Sirmar set includes. << LoyalHanna Dockyard is the US distributor for all Sirmar parts/ hulls and the 1/72 Flower class upgrade kit. They also carry the great little ships range of upgrades for this hull as well. They can be contacted at: Loyalhanna Dockyard 7527 Gilbert Road Bergen, NY 14416 716-494-0027 phone 716-494-1369 fax lhdockyard@aol.com They have a 256 page catalog available which lists items from over 15 suppliers from around the world www.loyalhannadockyard.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Books FS Hi Shane; Here is list of books I have FS. Somehow I have 2 of each of these, selling the extra one.. _Mare Nostrum_ By Jack Green, 1990 $14 _Ironclads And Columbiads_ By William R. Trotter, 1989 $10 _The Spanish War, An American Epic 1898_ By G.J.A. O'Toole, 1984 $10 _Battle Report, The End Of An Empire. Vol.4_ By Karig, Harris, and Manson, 1948 $25 _Signal 250_ By A.C.M. Azoy, 1964. Spanish American War $8 _Fighting Ships, Ships of the Line 1793-1815_ By David Davies, 1996. $20 _Battleships, US Battleships in WWII_ By Dulin and Garzke, 1976 $35 Postage additional. Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume