Subject: SMML VOL 1318 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 02:31:38 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: HMS Welshman Camouflage 2: Re: .50 cal mounts on USN BBs 3: Re: Rigging Material 4: Re: Rigging material 5: Re: Tippits 6: English books on warship design 7: Order of battle for Rheinubung 8: Operation Rheinubung 9: Samek Models 10: Irish Navy 11: IJN Carrier Photoetch decks by Pit Road 12: USN harbor building colors 13: Alabama colours 14: Red Paint 15: SS United States 16: Fighting Steel 17: Re: "O" Class destroyers 18: Re: Ed Grune's story of green paint 19: Festval of tall ships 20: Doyusha 1/250 Shinano 21: Re: BB .50 cal MGs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: FESTIVAL OF THE SEA..CHECK THIS PAGE FOR INFO 2: San Francisco Military Regatta 3: Re: Category definition & rule change needed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: IPMS Nationals Pics 2: MOVING SALE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: HMS Welshman Camouflage Hi SMML, In 1941-42, the fast minelayer HMS Welshman carried an interesting four-color camouflage scheme - when she wasn't disguised as a French destroyer. The pattern and at least some of the colors are different from the scheme carried by her sistership HMS Abdiel in 1943. Does anyone have any idea what the colors were used in the Welshman's pattern? There are photographs of her in the pattern in the Warship Profile on the Abdiels and in the Polish book on the Abdiel and the Ariadne. I realize this may be addressed in Mr. Raven's recent book on RN camouflage in 1942, but my copy is still on its way to me. Thanks very much! Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Chris Preston" Subject: Re: .50 cal mounts on USN BBs Peter Samolinski was asking about water-cooled .50 Cal MG mounts on Pearl Harbour era BB's. There is at least one photograph of this mounting in Paul Stillwell's book: "BATTLESHIP ARIZONA, An Illustrated History", on P. 212. I also have a drawing of the same mount, not to any particular scale, on a set of 1/96th plans for the ARIZONA. If your friend is really stuck, "The Floating Drydock" has a series of fittings in 1/96th scale by John Haynes, one of which is ".50 Cal Naval Pedestal Mount", listed at $3.50. I've heard that these fittings are very good, and plan to get some myself. If you need a copy of the photo, and drawing that I have, let me know, and I'll scan them and e-mail them to you. Chris Preston, Victoria, B.C. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Teliczan Tom Civ 15 SVS/SVF Subject: Re: Rigging Material To Kevin & Rusty, thanks muchly for the information - Didn't realize it was flyfishing material. Really appreciate the information!!! Regards, Tomt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Masashi Ito Subject: Re: Rigging material Hi, I bought my 9X tippet line from Pacific Front Hobbies at www.pacificfront.com. Masashi Ito -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: EDKRU@aol.com Subject: Re: Tippits Try any Tackle shop that deals with Fly Fishing or on line www.orvis.com , www.cabelas.com Have a GREAT DAY ED K Panama City ,FL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Masashi Ito Subject: English books on warship design Hi, I am looking for English books, or magazines, dealing with warship design (battleship's in particular) such as hulls, armour, armament, fire-control systems and so on. Please let me know your recommendation. Thank you in advance, Masashi Ito -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Order of battle for Rheinubung Hi Werner Here it is British - Home Fleet and attached ships. King George V, Hood, Prince of Wales, Repulse, Victorious, Rodney, Ramillies, Norfolk, Suffolk, Galatea, Aurora, Kenya, Neptune, Hermione, Edinburgh, London, Inglefield, Electra, Anthony, Echo, Icarus, Achates, Antelope, Active, Punjabi, Nestor, Intrepid, Cossack, Maori, Zulu, Sikh, Piorun, Somali, Tartar, Mashona. - Patrol line off Iceland Manchester, Birmingham, Arethusa - Force H Renown, Ark Royal, Sheffield, Dorsetshire. German - Raiding force Bismarck, Prinz Eugen - Escort Z25, Eckoldt, Lody (detached 22nd May), Sperrbrecher 13 and 31 (detached 21st May) - Refuelling/replenishment Ermland, Spichern, Belchen, Lothringen, Esso Hamburg, Breme, Weissenburg, Wollin (refuelling ships in Norway), Heide (reserve for Weissenburg, - Scout Ships Gonzenheim, Kota Penang - Weather ships Lauenburg, Munchen (intercepted 7th May) Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "jmsr1990" Subject: Operation Rheinubung Hi Werner; The other German ships involved in the operation were the destroyers Friedrich Eckoldt, Hans Lody and the Z23. Also Sperrbrecher 13 and 31 were used as escorts along with the mine sweepers of the 5th flotilla. All of these warships helped escort Prince Eugen and Bismarck from germany to the northern latitude where Trondheim lies in Norway. None of these ships went any farther then Norway, The Two heavy units were on ther own from there on out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "jmsr1990" Subject: Samek Models Gentleman; (I use this term very loosley with some of you out there) I have been trying to contact Samek Models for going on three weeks now via email and I have not had a response yet. I used thier email address from their web sight. Is this address good? Have any of you conversed with them through the web? Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Mike Walsh Subject: Irish Navy Hi all Any of you out there interested in small navies and off-the-beat ships ought to go to . You can navigate from there. The Irish Navy has a pretty unique blend of ships, the Deirdre class Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV), a 70s version of the classic Flower class corvette, the LE (Long Eireannach - Irish Ship) Eithne, the flagship and the only ship capable of carrying helicopters, the two Peacock class Costal Patrol vessels (CPV) (LE Orla and LE Ciara) and finally, launched only last year, the stealth design LE Roisin, an OPV designed to replace LE Deirdre (sold 3 weeks ago to private interests). Another Roisin class vessel is building the Appledore shipyard, Devon, England. The site is under reconstruction, so the current site is not updated. Take a look at the pics and tell me what you think of Irelands' little ships! Plenty of modelling oppertunties I think! Finally in reply to Simon Wolffs message about Bismark and Hood, I am currently reading Robert Ballards book. It's excellent, with some great photos - it's unmissable, especially if your building a model of Bismark. Good Luck Mike Walsh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: rweilach@mindspring.com Subject: IJN Carrier Photoetch decks by Pit Road I have seen these items in the latest Pacific Front Hobbies update and wonder: 1. Does anyone have one of these and can offer a review? 2. What are they for? They must be addressing some inaccuracy in the kits, so what are those inaccuracies? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: rweilach@mindspring.com Subject: USN harbor building colors What colors were USN buildings (like the Skywave kits) during WWII? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Bobbie Sickler" Subject: Alabama colours what are the Alabama colors? Bought model kit from ebay, am interested. thanks B -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: isublett@home.com Subject: Red Paint I think Ed hit a major point sort of in passing. Until early in the 20th century (I almost wrote "this" century), oxide red was one of the cheapest paints - along with blue, yellow and black. I suspect some research might show more than just gundecks painted red. Of course, we all know that nothing about a ship is merely utilitarian - everything is done for deep and meaningful reasons. Any old boat builder will tell ya! Pirie Sublett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Jodie Peeler Subject: SS United States hello all.... About the SS United States, I've heard nothing of rumors to move the ship to Ellis Island (I doubt seriously that would ever come to pass, for many reasons). It would not surprise me if there were people working on reactivating her engines, because there remains interest in operating the ship commercially. Again, though, I'd be very surprised if it did come to pass -- it wouldn't be economical to retain her original power plant in cruise service, especially a power plant like hers that would be extremely expensive to crew, fuel and run without a massive subsidy. A couple days ago some remarks were made regarding asbestos. The ship was towed to Sevastopol in late 1993 and the ship's interior asbestos was removed, so asbestos is not the concern it once was. Unfortunately, while the ship was in Russia and/or Turkey, an awful lot more was removed. The original majority owner had begun to scrap the ship (removing boats and davits, among other things, and scrapping them) and may have been about to go further when Edward Cantor stepped in and very hurriedly brought the ship back to the US in 1996. It's sad to see that three decades later the United States is really no closer to any sort of plan for her future than she was in 1970 or even 1980 -- and the tales involving the various schemes to put her back into service are enough to make one retch. (I know many of them, some of which I'm not really at liberty to divulge.) One wonders what it would have been like had MarAd done the right thing in 1978 and donated the ship to a museum group -- back then she looked like crap on the outside, but just about everything inside was right where it was left in November 1969, right down to newspapers and vacuum cleaners all lined up in neat rows. Instead she has changed hands many times, and unfortunately none of her owners seem to have had any real idea of just what they were getting into, or the wherewithal to translate their vision(s) into reality, and the ship has suffered. Someone should install a tachometer on Mr. Gibbs' tombstone to see just how fast he's spinning in his grave. I dearly want to see this ship saved -- she's been a part of my life for the past decade -- but it's going to take an AWFUL lot of money just to get her into some presentable shape. It could happen, and the people behind the big campaigns seem to be well-connected (I've been associated with some of them), and if anyone can pull it off, they can. I intend to do my part, and urge everyone else on this list to do so as well. But it's going to be a huge fight. I've been involved in enough preservation efforts to know what's involved, and through enough heartache to know it's uphill all the way. For the record, the SS US Foundation website (at http://www.ssunitedstates.org) offers an e-mail update service, if you look on the website. If you want to keep up to date on the Foundation's preservation efforts it's a good way to do so. Anyhow, that's what (little) I know, for what it's worth. I just hope and pray she meets a happier fate than did her little sister.... jodie http://www.mindspring.com/~raisingirl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Linda & David Orzel" Subject: Fighting Steel Hello fellow collectors. I know this is a bit off topic for the list, but I have Fighting Steel the naval wargame, and when my computer crashed a couple of months ago, I lost the upgraged version. It used to be available free on the SSI webpage, but the whole page has gone into cyberspace! I heard Mattel bought SSI out, but it is not on their webpage either. Anyone know where this has gone? Or, for that matter, why Mattel would buy a fairly good game company and then have it disappear or left orphaned? Thanks Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Jim Warsher Subject: Re: "O" Class destroyers Thanks, Shane and Tim. I will try and suss out the Raven/Roberts Ensign book - and try and latch onto the IPMS article, as well. It is one of the [many] little ironies of this hobby that a kit costing a few pounds/dollars winds up being an expense of over a hundred in books, detail kits, plans and other ephemera. I just finished HMS Duckworth and wound up buying Collinwood's excellent "Captains Class" book as well as Franklin's "Buckley Class" book. Don't regret it a bit, learned a whole lot and grew to know my subject better, not entirely from the point of vantage of a modeler, either. I'm grateful for the advice. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: Ed Grune's story of green paint In response to Ed Grune's story in Vol. 1317 about the tour guide on the U.S.S Constitution saying that the green paint used on the inner side of the bulwark was to remind the landsmen about the green grass of home. A likely story, indeed!!!! Was that the same tour guide who tells that some of the guns were served by U.S.Marine gun crews, and the arrows cast into some of the guns were to tell the Marines which way the cannon balls were moving when they left the muzzle of the gun? I disagree that such whimsical nonsense makes a good story. Visitors to the ship deserve to be told the straight facts, as many of the guests are not nautically minded, and trust the tour guide to level with them. They have no reason to not believe the guide, or to be expected to be able to differentiate between fact and fiction. Franklyn "Crew Member", U.S.S Constitution Museum and member of U.S.S.Constitution Model Shipwright Guild -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: " Jim Mc" Subject: Festval of tall ships This weekend in Cleveland, Ohio, is the festival of tall ships. Sailing vessels from around the world have been arriving for a few days now. I know, I know, sailing ships? I must admit the inner harbor here does look somewhat 18th centuryish, but what the heck, maybe somebody can get some use out of it. I heard 20 vessels, from the Brig Niagra(Perry's ship) to HMS Tecumseh, to a replica of the Nina(Columbus's ship). What the heck, I may even get a wicker basket, and tell people it's MOSESS's ship!!!!!! Jim Mc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "enrico_villa@libero.it" Subject: Doyusha 1/250 Shinano Hi all, can anyone give me any comments on this kit? I'm considering to buy one by mail order, since in Italy I couldn't find it, and I've never had a chance to look "inside the box". Thank you very much! Enrico -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "WEM" Subject: Re: BB .50 cal MGs From: "Steven P. Allen" >> In lieu of pics thereof, how about a large-scale model? My local walmart carries the GI JOE "Pearl Harbor Memorial Series of 12" figures. One of them is a sailor manning such a mount. While the detail on the mount may not be IPMS quality for that large a scale, the proportions and shapes are correct (judging by the pic on the box), and the tiniest details in this huge scale will disappear in ship scales. << As long as the mount that GI Joe is manning is a water-cooled .50, you're OK (I haven't seen the figure). However, if it's an air-cooled .50 it's the wrong weapon. For more info on the water-cooled mount, see either Friedman's book on USN weapons, or Campbell's Naval Weapons. John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "WEM" Subject: FESTIVAL OF THE SEA..CHECK THIS PAGE FOR INFO Up and running.... a page for SMML folk who are visiting FOTS... http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/fots.htm Cheers! Caroline Carter Business Manager White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: San Francisco Military Regatta Hello Everyone This is your long lead time notice that there will be a submarine and military regatta in San Francisco on September 29 and 30th. All kinds of models will be there, from Battleships to tugs, and a large number of working submarines. If you have an interest in large scale warship modeling, this will be a great event for you. For more information, go to http://www.warshipmodelsunderway.com and scroll down to the regatta link. You will find a map, driving directions, and other information. Hope to see you there! Kurt SeaPhoto Maritime Photography www.warshipphotos.com Now taking credit cards via Paypal! Warship Models Underway www.warshipmodelsunderway.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Category definition & rule change needed >> What can be done to the IPMS USA rules that would better define when a drawing board ship becomes a real ship? Suggestions anyone? << I'm making this my next project to get changed. The problem we ran into with the USS United States wasn't so much with the rules, but more the category definition. I'm going to try going at this from the back door and getting the category Name changed from "Ships Conversions and Scratchbuilt" to "Ships Conversions Scratchbuilt and Other". If the Contest Committee doesn't go for that, we will have to work for a rule change. I really didn't like moving the United States to the Hypothetical category because I felt it would more fairly compete with models of its own genre. Ken Robert (Head Judge) really could make no other decision in the matter. Anyway, we have a whole year to correct the problem. I'll give the CC guys a few weeks to recover from the Nats and I'll send an email with my concerns and get the ball rolling. This doesn't happen very often, but it has occurred for the last three consecutive years to different ship models. Not often enough to create a separate category, but often enough to amend the rules to keep them in ship related categories in my opinion. Rusty White Head IPMS/USA Ship Judge 2003 IPMS/USA National Convention Chairman OKC IN 2003! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Timothy Dike" Subject: IPMS Nationals Pics I have posted some pics from the Nationals on ModelWarships.com from the models and also some of the vendors. There were some really great models entered this year, I can hardly wait until next year! Check the what's new link or the Feature articles link to access the pics. Regards, Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: FRANSHIPS@aol.com Subject: MOVING SALE Hello Folks! I'm soon off on a some-expense transfer overseas courtesy of the US Navy, and need to trim my collection. All books are in good to excellent condition and all kits, while most are open, are intact. Please add $4 per order for postage. Contact me at franships@aol.com if interested. Am willing to trade for John Bowen's book "Waterline Ship Models". Model Shipwright 1972-1997: An Anthology 18.00 By John Bowen Model Shipwright Volume I (1978) 15.00 By John Bowen (Cover worn) Conway's Warship Volume I 20.00 Conway's Warship Volume II (1978) 20.00 USNI Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems (1989) 20.00 By Norman Friedman Combat Fleets of the World 90-91 45.00 Combat Fleets of the World 1993 45.00 Combat Fleets of the World 1995 45.00 (All 3 have tattered dustjackets) Modern Naval Combat (1986) 10.00 By D&C Miller 1/700 Tugger and Harbor Sets 5.00 1/700 Corsair Armada USS Whipple FF 1062 25.00 1/700 Tamiya Yamato 15.00 1/350 DML Bunker Hill 15.00 1/350 DML Ingersoll 15.00 1/350 DML Ingersoll (Hull was started, but not painted) 5.00 1/350 Tamiya Missouri 45.00 1/381 Revell N.S. Savannah 15.00 Nachimo Iowa BB 61 Faces II 15.00 Advent Montrose APA 212 15.00 Revell Burleigh APA 95 15.00 Thanks! Frank Griak Santee, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume