Subject: SMML VOL 1319 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 02:14:04 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Irish Navy/Mike Walsh 2: Re: USN harbor building colors 3: Re: Doyusha 1/250 Shinano 4: Re: Tippet Line for Rigging 5: Re: English books on warship designs 6: Re: RN "O" Class destroyers 7: Re: Ship speed derived from wake patterns... 8: HMS Daring and Other Colour Schemes 9: Ship categories 10: Re: Cases at IPMS Nats 11: Pensacola / Salt Lake City 12: HMAS Sydney found? 13: Armoured conning towers 14: Re: Fighting Steel 15: Pre-Dreadnought and Dreadnought - Boats, Guns and Bits 16: English Books on Warship Design -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Update on Arizona from NauticusModels - $28.00 each 2: AAA Arizona Special Offer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Irish Navy/Mike Walsh LOL Mike,I could actually proudly claim that I have designed coat of arms plaques for the WHOLE Irish Navy. Sounded impresive... But now that you have revealed that the whole of Irish Navy consist of about 6 ships -the grandness in gone.... The masters were in a form of 10cm diameter circle with ship's coat of arms and separate scroll with the name. It was to be casted in brass and mounted on wooden shield. The last ones completed were L.E. Roisin (Rose) and L.E. Niamh. Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: USN harbor building colors >> What colors were USN buildings (like the Skywave kits) during WWII? << Gray, with Gray trim. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Re: Doyusha 1/250 Shinano Hello Enrico, The Doyusha 1/250 Shinano is a completely horrendous kit. The list of problems is too long to post but the only thing that they seem to have gotten correct is that both the kit and the model have a flat top (actually the kit's deck isn't all that flat). The antiaircraft guns only remotely resemble the actual items, the railings are molded in and are extremely heavy. In fact, all the detail (if there is any) is extremely heavy. This kit is more of a toy than anything els. On top of that it is very expensive. A better choice would be to get the Arii Yamato/Musashi kit and convert it. Hope that's not too discouraging but I wouldn't waste my money on the Doyusha kit - oh, wait, I did waste my money on it but at least I bought it at a discount in Japan. Best regards, Duane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Teliczan Tom Civ 15 SVS/SVF Subject: Re: Tippet Line for Rigging Thanks also to Ed K. (from my birthplace of Panama City, Fl.) & Masashi Ito for more information on Tippet Line. This is really a super site w/super folks - I was awed & amazed at all of the responses to my question as to what the heck the stuff was. Way to go!!! Appreciatively, Tomt., Hickam AFB, HI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: English books on warship designs >> I am looking for English books, or magazines, dealing with warship design (battleship's in particular) such as hulls, armour, armament, fire-control systems and so on. << It would help if you could me a bit more specific Ito, (I hope I am not offending you by calling you "Ito") ship's nationality and time period would help. Off hand I would recommend R.A Burt series "British Battleships 1989-1904"; "British Battleships of WW I" and "British Battleships of WW II", they are out of print and hard to find but are invaluable as reference sources. Another usefull book is D.K.Brown's "Warrior to Dreadnought -warship development 1860-1905" published by Chatham Publishing but distributed in US by Naval Institute Press. There is a follow on volume titled, I think, "Grand Fleet" but I have't got it yet in my library so I can't comment. Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Mitsuaki Kubota Subject: Re: RN "O" Class destroyers Jim, I'm sorry to say, the Skywave/Pitroad "O" Class kits (The tools are now possessed by Tamiya.) are very incorrect kit. But we have no other injection moulded kit when building RN War Emergency Destroyers. The kit is basically depicts the leader HMS Onslow. The fo'c'sle of Onslow is slightly longer than her sisters. And the aft deck house of her is larger than sisters. Even if building Onslow, I recomend scrutch building most of upper works from plastic cards. The vertical surfaces of kit upperworks are tapered because of ejecting direction of the parts from tool. I had built HMS Onslaught from the kit some years ago. http://www.hig.tocolo.or.jp/hmdock/ships/ons.html I used the kit upper bridge and funnel, but many modificatin required. Other upperworks are completely scratchbuilding from the plastic cards. I think scrutchbuilding would be easier than collecting the kit upperworks. But small parts like curley floats and boats are generally good. And now, we have many after market parts from WEM. (These parts were not yet available when I built my Onslaught.) "ENSIGN 6" contains the general arrangement of HMS Oribi and on deck photographs of Onslow and Oribi, they are very helpful when scrutchbuilding the upperworks. Also please note that O classes are divided to two groups, the 4.7" gun ships (Onslow, Oribi, Onslaught and Offa) and the 4" HA gun ships (Opportune, Orwell, Obdurate and Obedient). The 4.7" gun ships have single 4" HA in place of aft TT mountings like the kit. The 4" HA gun ships have two set of TT mountings. The 4" gun of Y position have no gun shield. Also, the 4" gun groups were built with mine laying gears in their stern so that quickly converted to minelayers if requiored. Hope these info would be some of help. Best regards and happy modelling, Mitsuaki Kubota http://www.hig.tocolo.or.jp/hmdock/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Chris Hughes" Subject: Re: Ship speed derived from wake patterns... Kelvin Mok raised the question of ship speed being derived from wake measurements some days ago. He recalled this technique being described in Constance Babbington Smith's book "Evidence in Camera" (Latin scholars will get the pun...), in which she describes how measurements derived from the wake of a ship will give an approximation of the vessel's speed. I've managed to find the answer... But only to calculate the speed in Knots - I guess you can play with the formula to get the distance between the wake waves... Here goes... Approximate speed is equal to 4/3 by the square root of "d" (Where "d" is the distance between the first and second bow wave measured in FEET)... With me so far? Example: If "d" = 23 ft, square root of 23 ft is 4.795 4/3 x 4.795 - 1.33 x 4.795 = 6.37 Kt Convert to mph: 6.37 x 1.1516 = 7.34 mph Convert to km/h: 7.34 x 1.60935 = 11.81 km/h This was verified against the technical characteristics of a vessel with a set speed of 6.4 Kt. The mathematicians amongst you should be able to scale this down and also reverse the formula to derive the distance between waves from a known speed... I'll leave that to smarter brains than mine! HTH Chris Hi all, Chris has sent in a sketch which will be uploaded to the SMML site over the weekend. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Connor, Michael" Subject: HMS Daring and Other Colour Schemes Dear All, I have a couple of paint questions for the list. 1. I am currently building the Airfix "HMS Daring". I need to know what colour she was when commissioned. The instructions say hull and superstructure "battleship grey" and decks "grey/green". It doesn't give the Airfix colour numbers which I could convert to Humbrol's scheme. So I was hoping that someone could also tell me the relevant Humbrol colour scheme numbers too. 2. I also need the immediate prewar (say September 39) scheme for "Hood" and the destroyer "Hotspur" With many thanks Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: James Corley Subject: Ship categories >> I'm going to try going at this from the back door and getting the category Name changed from "Ships Conversions and Scratchbuilt" to "Ships Conversions Scratchbuilt and Other". If the Contest Committee doesn't go for that, we will have to work for a rule change. << Rusty, Upon further reflection, I think we need to include ships were metal was cut in the ship categories. Would you like to face the irate model builder who built a 1/144 CVA-58 and had it moved to a category where it lost to an airplane when it was clearly the best ship around? The category need to include conjectural ships, much like the Manassas which was real but nobody knows the exact configuration, or the Hunley, whose configuration was not known until recently irregardless of what the paintings showed. But we do need to exclude the pure fiction from the class, like the JAG CVX. To this end I would propose a rule definition that separates them at the point of an official SCB designation (USN only) or similar design stage, metal cut, keel laid, etc. Case in point would be to modify the Forestall kit to the design to which construction was started - it was radically different than what was launched. This might be dealt with by a change of attitude as to what "hypothetical" is, i.e., removing the criteria that it was commissioned (Graf Zeppelin was not, but it supposedly did sail under it's own power once in Russian hands) to that construction was begun. BTW, will you be head ship judge at OKC? Seems to me you'll be way to busy to do it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Rod Millard" Subject: Re: Cases at IPMS Nats I too want to say it was a good choice to leave the cases on the bigger sailing ships. I was one of the guys that had smaller ships around them, and alot of damage could have been done to everyones models. And even with the cases on you could tell that the Constitution that J. Hazzard built was the best in our class. I would also like to say. This was my first IPMS Nats. and it was a great experience. The people where great. The judge's had a great challenge. I know I was going from model to model going oh wow! I can hardly wait for the next one I get to attend. Rod Millard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Roger/Sharon Torgeson" Subject: Pensacola / Salt Lake City I have a small technical question for the collective brain powers of the group. How many blades were on the propellers that the Pensacola (CA-24 / Salt Lake City (CA-25) used, was it three or four? Roger Torgeson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: HMAS Sydney found? Hi you all... Can anyone confirm a story that seems to be going around.. that the wreck of the WWII cruiser HMAS Sydney (sunk by the German raider Kormoran) has been found? and if so what details are known? regards Simon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Armoured conning towers Hi Guys Can any one tell when Battleships began to built with armored conning towers. Usally this where the Captain would run the ship in a battle. My best guess for the Americans it seem to start with the South Carolina BB-26. Which would be about the same time as HMS Dreadnought entered service. Was this done with the other navies? Or did they have a different concept to armoring the bridge. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Richard Simpson Subject: Re: Fighting Steel >> I know this is a bit off topic for the list, but I have Fighting Steel the naval wargame, and when my computer crashed a couple of months ago, I lost the upgraged version. It used to be available free on the SSI webpage, but the whole page has gone into cyberspace! I heard Mattel bought SSI out, but it is not on their webpage either. Anyone know where this has gone? Or, for that matter, why Mattel would buy a fairly good game company and then have it disappear or left orphaned? << Go here: http://www.navalwarfare.net/content/fs.html Looks facinating Regards Richard Simpson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: George Colleen Ian Hargreaves Subject: Pre-Dreadnought and Dreadnought - Boats, Guns and Bits SealsModels makes a 1/700 set of boats, guns and other bits for circa 1900 vessels. Kit No. SMP-002-1200 is Equipment For IJN & RN Vessels available from Pacific Front Hobbies. There are two identical frets injection molded in light grey plastic with no flash or sink marks. Each fret contains: - one early 12" turret with two 30.5 cm (12") gun barrels (they do look round in cross section) - seven 15.2 cm (6") guns with three optional shields - five 12 cm (4.7") guns with integral shield - two 8 cm (3.1") guns with optional pedestal with or without shield - five 5.7 cm (2.2") guns with optional pedestal with or without shield - twelve 4.7 cm (1.8") guns with integral shield - ten 7.6 cm (3.0") guns on pedestal - two 20 cm (8") gun barrels - one 36 ft steam boat - one two piece 56 ft admirals steam barge - one 42 ft long boat (all boats have thwarts and molded floor boards) - two 30 ft sailing dinghies - two 30 ft sailing dinghies for davits - two 30 ft dinghies - two 27 ft whalers - one 7 m dinghy - one 20 ft dinghy - one 14 ft dinghy - two 18 ft Berthon boats (folding dinghies) - five large tall funnels, 5 ft x 20 ft - five large short funnels, 5 ft x 12 ft - four tall medium funnels, 4 ft x 20 ft - four tall thin funnels, 3 ft x 20 ft - one chrysanthemum seal for the bow - three 24" search lights - two 45 cm (18") single torpedo tubes - one 9 ft optical range finder ~ 14ft on pedestal - one semaphore mast - two large navy anchors - two small navy anchors - two ammunition hoists - four davits with falls - five davits no falls - one jack staff with brace - one set of four paper flags: RN - White Ensign, IJN - Rising Sun, Russian (White Field/blue diagonal) and ? ( red field/white cross/blue diagonal) - four pieces, each 3 cm long, 70 scale ft of padded rail There is a set of instructions that has colour information but it is in Japanese. This is a very carefully molded set of all the 3D bits and pieces needed to detail those pre-dreadnought and dreadnought vessels that come with blobs instead of fittings. Enjoy! Cheers, George -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: English Books on Warship Design Two of the best books I know of covering this subject are: * British Warships of the Second World War by John Roberts (ISBN 1-86176-131-7, Chatham Publishing, 2000) * The Design & Construction of British Warships 1939-1945 by David K Brown (ISBN 0-85177-673-6, Conway Maritime Press, 1995) These books obviously only cover British warships but do contain a lot of information regarding the design process. The latter is a volume covering 'Major Surface Warships', the other two volumes in the series covering 'Submarines, Escorts & Coastal Forces' and 'Amphibious Warfare Vessels & Auxiliaries'. Regards Les Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Christopher Decker" Subject: Update on Arizona from NauticusModels - $28.00 each All: Nifty nifty nifty.... It appears I was quoted the wrong price by our supplies, and with the correct price in hand, NauticusModels can now offer the new Banner USS Arizona to the modeling community for $28.00!!! Keep in mind, this price will INCLUDE Shipping to all US and most overseas addresses. (to help you out, that would be $22.00 without shipping) While I will still encourage everyone to support their local hobby shop to encourage new models in the future, if you would like to order through the internet or mail, let me know. NauticusModels will be happy to serve! As always, Feel free to email me at cdecker@nauticusmodels.com if you are interested Happy Modeling Chris Decker President http://www.nauticusmodels.com (not quite 100% up and running) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: James Corley Subject: AAA Arizona Special Offer AAA Hobbies would like to extend to our SMMLie friends a special offer. 1/350 Banner (Trumpeter) USS Arizona for the low price of $21.50, a 20% discount (20.22% off the **NEW** $26.95 SRP exactly). With Priority Mail for US Customers that makes the expected cost (3.3lbs=6.45) about $27.95 This offer is good through Thursday, July19 at 12PM Eastern time. Any email received with a time stamp from my server before Friday, July 20, will receive this price. After that, the usual SMML discount of 15% will apply ($22.91) James AAA Hobby -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume