Subject: SMML VOL 1325 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 01:43:02 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: French museums 2: Re: open letter 3: Tribal 4: Re: Rigging Material Sizes 5: Re: Casablanca/Commencement Bay 6: Re: Lindberg LSD 7: Dunagain Decals 8: NO NO NO No Names! 9: Rusty/Andy - HMS Blackthorne 10: Open letter to the SMML 11: Re: British Warship Plans 12: Cursed Model 13: Re: Where Nautilus goes 14: Re: Open letter to the SMML 15: Re: IPMS Nationals categories 16: SIGNED NAMES 17: Tribal Class Model 18: Spanish Battleship Pelayo 19: Re: USCG Air Station 20: Disney's Nautilus 21: Re: Signed/Unsigned posts 22: Enterprise camo 23: Re: Rigging Material Sizes 24: Re: Detailing A Fletcher's bulkheads 25: Turner Publishing's naval books -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: SMML Site news 2: Washingtn/BC mini CON -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Books for Sale 2: Vendetta is back! 3: Warship prints 4: Re: Tribal Class kit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Re: French museums From: Pleugers3@aol.com >> I am going to France in September and would like to visit the Air and Naval Museums. I cannot find the location of either in the travel books. Where do I go? << I maintain online lists of US and international maritime museums. It is cobbled together from various resources, but pretty comprehensive and mostly accurate (if I say so myself). You can find the lists at: http://www.bb62museum.org/usnavmus.html http://www.bb62museum.org/wrldnmus.html I also have a list of aviation museums: http://www.bb62museum.org/airmus.html JoeP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: Re: open letter Well, my name is Friedrich Kappes, I sign normally with my signature that says only "Friedrich". My christian name is the one I use most of the time. Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://www.geocities.com/friedkappes/flagship.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Chris Rogers Subject: Tribal G/Day yes I know where you can find a WW2 Tribal from APS MODELS in Australia they do a sem Kit at 1-72 and is great value the vendor's name is Allan Pew and is in Gwandalan NSW Australia give him a hoy he's a Good bloke and a very good pattern maker Regards Chris OZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Eduardo Luis Marcovecchio Subject: Re: Rigging Material Sizes Hello people, While we're talking about this, I would like to ask: Does anyone have info on the average diameter of the cables of the actual capital ships of WWI and/or WWII? Were they approximately the same size across different navys, or did they vary a lot? Did the width vary too much depending on the role of each cable? I have not a very good idea on which size to use for my models. For example: for me, 0.06mm tippet seems to be thin enough for any scale between 1/200 and 1/1000, but I don't know if this is the correct size for 1/700 or 1/350 models. Well, any tip or info is greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance. Eduardo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: Casablanca/Commencement Bay >> The shafts on Commencement Bay are in bossing. Source; general plans and docking plan. Casablanca ,not so definate. << When I did the drawings for the AOTS on GAMBIER BAY, my references included the BUSHIPS drawings for NEHENTA BAY (CVE 74) and two reels of microfilm containing the Maritime Commission drawings for the class. Both references included the fairings, the lines for which came from the microfilm. There is a V strut at frame 184, which is the aft end of the fairing. If I've interpreted the drawings corrrectly, one strut of the V is contained within the fairing while the other is not. The CASABLANCAs and the later COMMENCEMENT BAYs were both Maritime Commission designs and these fairings were common fittings at the time. The Gibbs and Cox model of COMMENCEMENT BAY (CVE 105) has the fairings. The contemporary T-3 tankers and the four SANGAMON class CVEs derived from them also have the fairings. So - fairings or no fairings? The definitive answer would be a photograph showing the prop shafts of a CASABLANCA in drydock. I have not seen one, so cannot say with 100% confidence that they did have the fairings. However, because these fairings were characteristic of Maritime Commission designs of the period and all of the official drawings for the CASABLANCAs I've seen include them, it seems reasonable to conclude that they probably were fitted. Maybe someone on the list will come up with that elusive photo and clear it up for all of us! Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: wem Subject: Re: Lindberg LSD Hi Arthur, The 1950s U.S. Navy colors were the same as today: Haze Gray vertical surfaces, and Deck Gray decks. The colors you'll want are: Haze Gray: FS 36270 (26270 for scale effect) Deck Gray: FS 36008 (26176 for scale effect) You should be able to find these FS numbers in model paints at your hobby shop. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com Subject: Dunagain Decals Hi Folks, Can someone point me toward a source for these decals??? Also, are the tread decals available in 1/350th scale?? Thanks in advance. Regards, John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Boatbldr" Subject: NO NO NO No Names! Hi Steve No No NO NO! As a father with young kids on the internet, the awful, pornographic spam that gets dumped and forced into my mailbox is disgusting. As I append regularly, and the spammers scan this website regularly, I will get spam - guaranteed. So in response I change my email address often. It gives me 8 to 12 months of spam free peace - at least lets leave my name (and therefor my kids names) out of it as well. Most long term SMML people know my real handle anyway, and I am sure the other folks who use handles are known to most of us. regards Boatbldr -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Boatbldr" Subject: Rusty/Andy - HMS Blackthorne For Rusty Surely as this was (apparently) not a real ship - this would have gone into the hypothetical category? Is that where it ended up? For Andy >> The HMS Blackthorne at the IPMS/USA Convention is outstanding. What after-market products are used to make it? It looks like a real ship, not a toy. Congratulations to its modeler! <<0 That is why I asked in yesterdays email if anyone knew the builder. There is most definitely more than standard stuff on that model, but is it GLS or what? Also, not all of the possible GLS options are represented (as far as I can tell). Does anyone know? regards Boatbldr -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: DaveRiley1@aol.com Subject: Open letter to the SMML Steve Wiper wrote: >> I would propose that there be a mandatory rule to sign your posting with your REAL, full name, or your post cannot be posted in this forum. << I agree completely. This is also a matter of courtesy to the readers. If a poster is not concerned enough to sign his name (and include a proper e-address), then his post should not be promulgated via SMML readership. Dave Riley Portsmouth, Rhode island USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: GGeGratz@aol.com Subject: Re: British Warship Plans The book series about the subject you are interested that - I think still are on print - can be THE DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION OF BRITISH WARSHIPS 1939-1945 The Official Record by Conways Maritime Press.3 vols. Cordially George Gratz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Dave Shirlaw Subject: Cursed Model The US Navy museum at Washington Navy Yard displays an intricate model of USS Constitution with a story on a placard. The story is about the model itself. This model was in President Kennedy's office in the White House and was there the day he was assassinated. In 1981 press secretary James Brady displayed the same model in his office. It was there the day he and President Reagan were wounded by a would-be assassin. Brady was too severely hurt ever to return. After that attempt, a White House person contacted the Navy Dept and asked it to please move the model somewhere else. Dave Shirlaw Editor, Seawaves Magazine www.seawaves.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Where Nautilus goes >> What about the varous versions of Jules Vernes Nautilus? Would these go in hypothetical, sci-fi or submarines? << I assume you're talking 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea Nautilus. It would go in either sci fi or hypothetical as the rules are currently written. Modelers choice. Rusty White IPMS/USA Head Ship Judge 2003 IPMS/USA National Convention Chairman OKC IN 2003! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: geoff-smith@ntlworld.com Subject: Re: Open letter to the SMML Steve Wiper wrote: >> To Shane and all subscribers of the SMML, I would like to put forth a proposal. I would propose that there be a mandatory rule to sign your posting with your REAL, full name, << I think it's basically down to common courtesy and respect for the other members. Part of Shane's reply was : >> While it's nice to know everyone's name there may be valid reasons as to why a subscriber prefers to keep hs/her anonymity. << Then they can keep that by staying off list. I can think of many reasons for anonymity and most of them are dodgy. Just my opinion. Regards, Geoff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: Re: IPMS Nationals categories This has been a fascinating discussion, I am sure, for some if not all of us. I wonder, though, does any one know where a list of winners, preferably with photos, might be available? I can't ask that question on another list, where the combatants were recently choosing their favorite brand of napalm, but here in our more restrained atmosphere, perhaps someone could point me in the right direction. Thanks, Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: SIGNED NAMES ALL, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, THIS IS A BAD IDEA. MANY PEOPLE, UNLIKE MYSELF, ARE TOO RESTRAINED IF THEY HAVE TO REVEAL THIER TRUE IDENTITY. WITHOUT THIS REVELATION, WE ARE GETTING THIER TRUE FEELINGS. IF ANY IS B/S, WE SHOULD ALL BE INTELLIGENT ENOUGHT TO KNOW. J. D. AN' MISS FLO NEDRESKI THE CRITTERRANCH BEAUFORT, S.C. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Connor, Michael" Subject: Tribal Class Model Hi All, Ken Wheat was looking for a Tribal Class model. Ken, May I suggest both WEM at: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models and Ebay. WEM have a Polish model in 1/600 which is not perfect by any means, but which looks like it can be improved greatly. I haven't tried mine yet. They may also have their own version. You can also find the occasional Airfix 1/600 (HMS Cossack) model on ebay. There are a couple of others in a different scale also I think. But I cannot recall any details. Hope this helps. Mike Hi Mike, Sadly WEM's Tribal is no longer in production. Pity it's a very nice kit. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Spanish Battleship Pelayo The other day I received a copy of the new 1:700 resin ship Pelayo made by Jadar-Model of Warsaw, Poland (www.jadar.com.pl). Real nice little kit of a Spanish battleship from the 1887-1925 time period. The casting is nice and clean, the details are crisp and a PE fret is included. Overall length is about 5 1/2 inches. The instructions are in Polish and English and provide a color scheme. If this is the first ship of the Spanish-American War series which Jadar has been advertising, then I'm sure that all of us interested in this time period will be glad to support their efforts. I have scanned the two pages of instructions in the jpg format. Anyone interested in receiving a copy contact me off line and I would be glad to mail the zip file to you. For added interest, here are a couple of web sites offering ship data/pictures of the Pelayo and other Spanish ships. Spanish Navy Ships: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-fornv/spain/sp-name.htm Pelayo web page: http://www.spanam.simplenet.com/pelayo.htm Regards, RhinoBones (BTW, just in case you have a problem with these things, RhinoBones is not my real name) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Melea/Mike Maynard" Subject: Re: USCG Air Station For Craig Bennett Air Station Cape May was comissioned in July 1969.(I was going through boot camp there at that time and recall the ceremony). It was closed prior to my retirement in (March 2000) so I would say late 1999. It was combined with Air Station Brooklyn to form Air Station Atlantic City. You're correct about the AIRSTA closures, Salem, Cape May, Brooklyn, Quonset, Sicily, Bermuda, and one other(whose name escapes me) have "bit the dust" during my years of service. PS I think Loren Perry's dad flew out of Quonset. Mike M. retired as before -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Ed Grune Subject: Disney's Nautilus Marc questions the IPMS category for Disney's Nautilus. IMO - the film version should go in Science Fiction. Jules Verne is the Father of Science fiction and we should pay him homage. SeaView from Voayge to the Bottom of the Sea -- ditto. The ride version at Disneyland/Disneyworld should go in 'Boats (less than 80 feet).' They would compete against speedboats, PT Boats and even the wooden canoe that was on the table. Even though they were never commisioned, they are a real boat. They do travel over the water by mechanical propulsion - not via sail. And you've never seen one submerge yet have you? (Can you envision the liability if they did and a gasket sprung a leak!) I think you can see some of the problems that Rusty and the ship judges faced - when we were trying to recommend some of the category moves for some models. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "lcp9" Subject: Re: Signed/Unsigned posts I do not agree that unsigned postings should be banned from the list. HOWEVER, I do think that if you are going to write something in this public forum you should have the balls to identify yourself. I give as much attention to anonymous postings as I would to anonymous calls or letters. Which is to say none at all. David Angelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Lump518176@aol.com Subject: Enterprise camo CV-6 Enterprise wore MS-33/4AB from June 1944 until at least into Jan 1945. Before and after she wore MS-21. BTW, she was never damaged by the Japanese (Kamikaze or otherwise) while wearing this scheme. Jerry Phillips -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: George Colleen Ian Hargreaves Subject: Re: Rigging Material Sizes John Rule is right, I'm out by 10, I used cm instead of mm in my conversion. Apologies for any confusion caused, here is the corrected table. 1/1mm 1/350mm 1/700mm 1/350in 1/700in 1/350ft 1/700ft 0.01 3.5 7 0.14 0.28 0.01 0.02 0.02 7 14 0.28 0.55 0.02 0.05 0.04 14 28 0.55 1.10 0.05 0.09 0.06 21 42 0.83 1.65 0.07 0.14 0.07 24.5 49 0.96 1.93 0.08 0.16 0.08 28 56 1.10 2.20 0.09 0.18 0.09 31.5 63 1.24 2.48 0.10 0.21 0.10 35 70 1.38 2.76 0.11 0.23 0.12 42 84 1.65 3.31 0.14 0.28 0.14 49 98 1.93 3.86 0.16 0.32 0.16 56 112 2.20 4.41 0.18 0.37 0.18 63 126 2.48 4.96 0.21 0.41 0.2 70 140 2.76 5.51 0.23 0.46 0.22 77 154 3.03 6.06 0.25 0.51 0.25 87.5 175 3.44 6.89 0.29 0.57 1 350 700 13.78 27.56 1 2 304.8 106680 213360 4200.00 8400.00 350 700 Regards, George -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "David N. Lombard" Subject: Re: Detailing A Fletcher's bulkheads >> I just got my Sept. 2001 issue of FineScale Modeler - wait til you see Bob Steinbrunn's outstanding 1/192 scale USS Kidd. It'll make you want to take up knitting. << I haven't seen that FSM, but check out the detailed articles on this model in the last two (May/June and July/August) Seaways' Ships in Scale. The detail and workmanship *incredible*. Let's see: torpedo tubes and launcher, 696 parts stacks: 734 parts searchlights: 252 parts pilothouse w/ mk12/24: 668 parts whaleboats: 182 parts each boats davits (4): 458 parts 20mm Oerlikons: 151 parts each K-guns and racks: 338 parts depth charge racks: 600 parts Looking at those photos, I know I could never live long enough to even approach his level of skill and artistry... David N. Lombard Rossmoor, Orange County, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Turner Publishing's naval books For those of you who are not familiar with Turner Publishing of Paducah, Kentucky, USA, this note may be of some interest. Turner Publishing (http://www.turneronline.com) has made a business of publishing limited quantities of very esoteric Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, and other unusual subject area books. I have two of theirs: "History of the USS KIDD and the FLETCHER Class Destroyers", and "Escort Carriers of the US Navy". These two are somewhat like a high school "year book" type of publication. The first half of the book is a history of the title subject with many good photos, most of which I've not seen before, and the second half is devoted to the crewmembers, their "then" and "now" photos, and with a brief biographical sketch of each. The books are high-quality items, hard cover, well bound, with glossy stock paper. The KIDD book's cover, while not real leather, appears to be a reasonable facsimile with gold gilt lettering and ship outline on the cover and spine. The escort carrier book has the famous painting of GAMBIER BAY (CVE-73) on the cover. Having said these good things, I find the editing to be abysmal: literally hundreds of spelling, punctuation, tense, and syntax errors appear. This is unfortunate, but if you can avoid being dismayed by this, these are very nice items to have, albeit spendy. Recommended for the photos and history, and highly, but be prepared for disappointment if you're an English major. In my case, I'm glad to have these two, and have just ordered a third on the USS NORTH CAROLINA (BB-55) at $52.50 U.S. (Shipping within the US is free if you order off their Web site, or you can call them on their toll-free number and try to be persuasive, as I was able to do. Have fun! Bob Steinbrunn Member, Nautical Research Guild Tin Can Sailors IPMS/USA #3345 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Lorna Subject: SMML Site news Just wanted to let everyone know that I've added a search function to the site making the SMML archives more easily accessible. More to come in a couple of days. I just wanted to get this going first. Cheers Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Roger/Sharon Torgeson" Subject: Washingtn/BC mini CON Vancouver is a rather large city, where do you plan on holding it? I didn't make last years, but given a time and location I can plan ahead for it. Sounds like a great way to spend a day or two. Roger Torgeson Bremerton, Washington -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: wem Subject: Books for Sale WEM has just acquired a new batch of used books, including 22 Warship Profiles. For a full list of books and prices, see our post on the SteelNavy Message Board: http://members.boardhost.com/Warship/msg/22769.html We are also shipping our 1/350 S-100 class Schnellboote (armoured bridge), priced at 19.96 Pounds (current exchange rate is about $1.40/Pound) Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Greg Anderson" Subject: Vendetta is back! Hi Shane: Last month we had a surprising number of orders for our 1/700 HMAS Vendetta - the inevitable happened, we ran out of stock. However a new production run has now been completed and Vendetta (and its Daring Class sistership, Vampire, also) are freely available. Price is Aus$35.75 + $8.50 registered post within Australia. The 1/600 Darings, Voyager and Duchess, are also available at the same price. Our 1/350 Vampire (Aus$138.60 + $20 registered post within Australia) will be joined, before the end of this year, by the first of the 1/350 Majestic carriers. HMAS Melbourne, in its straight deck form, will be the first to be produced. OZMODS AUSTRALIAN MODELS & PRINTPRO PUBLISHING SERVICES Proprietor: Greg Anderson Postal Address: PO Box 1083, Gailes, QLD 4300, Australia. Phone: (07) 3424 1724. Fax: (07) 3389 0923. Mobile: 0421 044 824. E-mail: mailto:ozmods@optushome.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Michael Taylor" Subject: Warship prints Hi List, I'm happy to announce that I'm offering limited edition warship prints-from my original artwork on my website. The list is short now but constantly growing. www.taylormademiniatures.com Thanks... Mike T -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: wem Subject: Re: Tribal Class kit We have a 1/700 Ultracast waterline kit (out of production) of HMCS HAIDA, priced at 35.00 Pounds. The manufacturer has gone out of business, so there are no spares available. Still, it's what you're looking for.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume