Subject: SMML VOL 1326 Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 01:49:08 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Where Nautilus goes 2: Re: USCG Air Station 3: French Museums 4: Promises and Comments 5: Re: Blackthorne and hypothetical 6: Re: "O" Class RN 7: Re: Turner Publishing's naval books 8: Re: Detailing A Fletcher's bulkheads 9: Re: Disney's Nautilus 10: Re: Casablanca/Commencement Bay 11: Lindbergs Lighthouse 12: Re: Cursed Model 13: Rigging materials 14: USS Kidd (DD-993) 15: Lindberg LSD 16: Tribal DD 17: TV Progs 18: Re: RhinoBones/Pelayo 19: Re: Where Nautilus goes 20: Re: Open letter to the SMML 21: Signing names 22: Re: Open letter to the SMML 23: Names 24: Re: Actual Names 25: Names 26: Re: Open letter to the SMML -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Hi all, Due to the large amount of modelling posts in this issue, I've only put a selection of posts in regarding the "Open Letter to SMML" covering both sides of the arguement. Now as I said before, it would be the polite thing to post your name - but it's still up to individuals whether they do or not. Full Stop. Period. It's called taking responsibility for your own actions rather than trying to legislate politeness which hardly ever works. Now let's get back to modelling! Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: AAA Hobby Supply Subject: Re: Where Nautilus goes >> I assume you're talking 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea Nautilus. It would go in either sci fi or hypothetical as the rules are currently written. << Rusty, It would almost certainly have to be put in Sci-Fi. It is from a media source (novel) and Hypothetical specifically excludes sci-fi kits. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Loren Perry Subject: Re: USCG Air Station >> Air Station Cape May was comissioned in July 1969.(I was going through boot camp there at that time and recall the ceremony). It was closed prior to my retirement in (March 2000) so I would say late 1999. It was combined with Air Station Brooklyn to form Air Station Atlantic City. You're correct about the AIRSTA closures, Salem, Cape May, Brooklyn, Quonset, Sicily, Bermuda, and one other(whose name escapes me) have "bit the dust" during my years of service. PS I think Loren Perry's dad flew out of Quonset. << That's correct. My dad flew Grumman UF-2G's at the USCG air detachment at Naval Station Quonset Point, R.I. from 1957 through 1960. One of my fondest memories as a small boy was seeing him guiding his big lumbering Albatross toward our home in base housing at Quonset Point while outbound on a routine patrol. He never failed to "waggle the wings" as he roared overhead at less than 1000 feet altitude as his way of saying "hi" to us. When he retired in 1962 at the USCG AirDet located at Keesler AFB in Biloxi, MS, he was at that time the oldest active duty USCG pilot on record, having started his flying career as an enlisted pilot in the USMC in the early 1930's. He transferred to the USCG after a six-year stint in the Corps and earned his commission in WW2. Late last year I built a 1/20 scale R/C model of his Grumman Albatross from a kit and duplicated his USCG Biloxi markings with home-made decals printed out on my ALPS printer. The model has a 56" span, weighs 3-1/2 pounds, and is powered by two Speed 400 direct drive electric motors turning adjustable pitch three-blade propellers. It operates on eight 2000 Mah NiCad batteries for a powered flight duration of 6 to 8 minutes. I fly it from a nearby lake, and operate it from a rowboat anchored in the middle which gives me unobstructed flying space in all directions. In flight, the model is nearly silent, and thanks to water takeoffs and landings, it stays clean. You can see photos of it in the current issue of Electric Flight International, a Traplet Publications magazine. Watching the model accelerate across the lake's surface and gently lift off is always a thrill for me. Landings are very forgiving, but achieving a scale-like touchdown with no bounces is more demanding. So far it has 23 flights logged and is loads of fun. I even make slow fly-bys and "waggle the wings" at myself, just like my late dad used to do. Talk about bringing back memories. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Kerry Jang Subject: French Museums I just returned home from Paris and if you check out the Fodor guide, you will find the addresses of amny of the miltary museums. I visited the Musee de la Marine, located in the Palace de Chaliot (can't misss it, just across from the Eifel Tower) and within the same general area, there is the Musee de l'Armee and others. Ask at your hotel! If you buy the subway travel card (Paris Visite), you will get a map with all of the major museums locations. Its a cool city and a lot cheaper than London (that is not saying much as both are pretty expensive places to visit!). Cheers, Kerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Jana & Pavel" Subject: Promises and Comments Dear SMML'ies, I have finally caught up with the backlog of mail, e-mail's and chores waiting for me on arrival from Chicago. My wife, dog and I made a holiday of attending the Nationals and stopped in the Black Hills, South Dakota on our return drive. All in all we had a great time. As this was my first Nats, so I did not quite know what to expect. It was nice to meet all the other ship enthusiasts. I AM NOT ALONE To all of the guys that I met, who shared their expertise with me and explained how they had done their models, thank you all. I wish there had been more time. The opportunity to talk to all the manufactures was enlightening. I believe it has made me a little more aware of the tremendous task that faces them in both the research and manufacturing of the high quality kits that we now take for granted. There is some exciting stuff on the way and if we all encourage the manufacturers, we may see a lot more. I hope that we will see more kits in the near future and that instead of slamming a kit for every tiny mistake, we try to use restraint and rather inform the manufacturer and explain what it is that is wrong. I found them more than willing to listen and hear the comments, both good and bad. It seems that adequate and accurate plans are the major problem. We would all like a 100% accurate kit, but how many of us would pay for the expensive plans? After all, the people that make our models are a business. This is not to say we must accept poor kits, but all of the guys that I talked to that make the kits do strive for accuracy, detail and fair price. To all of the Manufacturers that were at the Chicago Nats, I will not mention names, as I might leave some one out and so offend, I wish to say: THANK YOU ALL, for talking to me, explaining the obstacles you face and answering all my questions. For hanging in there despite the odds, and producing all those kits I can drool over. I hope that I will be able to meet most of you again. To all the guys I made promises to, I have not forgotten, I am just swamped at the moment and will get to it all soon. If there is a rush, e-mail me and I will get to it ASAP. Thank you all for a great time and hobby. Regards Pavel VACATA Regina, Saskatchewan Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Blackthorne and hypothetical >> Surely as this was (apparently) not a real ship - this would have gone into the hypothetical category? Is that where it ended up? << Sorry, I don't remember every ship in all the ship categories. The only ship that was moved into hypothetical was the USS United States. I just don't remember the Balckthorne in particular. However, under the current rules it would go into hypothetical. If it wasn't, it slipped by the judges and wasn't brought to my attention. Rusty White IPMS/USA Head Ship Judge 2003 IPMS/USA National Convention Chairman OKC IN 2003! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Jim Warsher Subject: Re: "O" Class RN Just wanted to give a belated thanks to Mitsuaki Kubota for his very useful advice regarding information on this class. I, too, had a look at his "Canberra" and found it lovely, indeed. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Turner Publishing's naval books >> Recommended for the photos and history, and highly, but be prepared for disappointment if you're an English major. In my case, I'm glad to have these two, and have just ordered a third on the USS NORTH CAROLINA (BB-55) at $52.50 U.S. (Shipping within the US is free if you order off their Web site, or you can call them on their toll-free number and try to be persuasive, as I was able to do. Have fun! << Bob, I am converting the Old Revell Arizona to a 1935 USS PENNSYLVANIA and I have their book USS PENNSLYVANIA (BB-38). Could not have done the model without it. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Vincent Mccullough" Subject: Re: Detailing A Fletcher's bulkheads >> I just got my Sept. 2001 issue of FineScale Modeler - wait til you see Bob Steinbrunn's outstanding 1/192 scale USS Kidd. It'll make you want to take up knitting. << I saw the model itself at the Mariner's Museum in Hampton Roads, and I can tell you that it is, in fact, phenomonal. Its one of those situations where you don't actually SEE some of the details, but you know that they're there if you just look closely enough. But looking closer just leads you to the conclusion that there is more detail that is too fine for you to QUITE make out. It has the "busy" feel of a real ship. The worst thing is that I know that Bob leads an active life, and in the midst of building it he and his wife adopted a daughter. So I have ablolutely no idea how he found the time to build it. That would have been a life's work at the rate that I seem to be able to pull off. Vince McCullough NRG Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Disney's Nautilus >> I assume you're talking 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea Nautilus. It would go in either sci fi or hypothetical as the rules are currently written. Modelers choice. << Would a non-hypothetical Sci-Fi model be slightly oxymoronic?? :-) If I build a UFO model would I be challenged to prove that it represents as as built ship? Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: Casablanca/Commencement Bay Al Ross, Thank you for your info and time concerning the Casablanca / Commencement Bay class shafts. Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Vern Wilson" Subject: Lindbergs Lighthouse Hi Shane, I have a question I hope you or other SMML members could answer. I've asked the same question on two other ship model message boards with no reponses at all. My question is this: In what scale is the newly re-issued Lindberg Lighthouse kit? I want to build and display it with some ship models. I just don't know which in scale of ships I should shop. Thank you. Vern Wilson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: " Jim Mc" Subject: Re: Cursed Model Can I give it to my ex girlfriend? Jim McCormick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "David" Subject: Rigging materials After following this thread (!) for a while, I feel safe in saying that this list has to be the world's premier source of model shipbuilding information. My own model building skills are pretty modest, and sometimes it doesn't occur to me that the material I'm impatiently trying to stick to the tip of the mast is out of scale. But even my aging eyes could detect that the nylon thread from the fabric store looked too fat on my 1/700 models. Solution? I reached up and pulled a few gray hairs out of my own head. Right color, right diameter, and long enough for tying knots, too. So I'm a woonie! But it worked, and there is still enough left for another couple models. David Hackley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Glenn and Kelly Neklason" Subject: USS Kidd (DD-993) Hi All Does anybody make a 1/350 USS Kidd (DD-993)? I'm not talking a Spruance here, but of the modified Spruances that were destined for the Shah of Iran. There are subtle structural differences (notably the radar platform above the bridge). Or perhaps of a conversion kit that goes with a 1/350 Spruance? I've a novice modelbuilding friend who served on the Kidd and wants to do a model of it. Thanks, Glenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Robert Morris" Subject: Lindberg LSD Arthur: One error you should correct is the well deck. The Lindberg model has the well deck sloped and shortened. This is to accomodate the motor and batteries for the motorized version. The well deck runs level (20' wl) from the stern to frame 15 (forward end of superstructure). The width is 44' from stern to frame 29 (forward end of pilothouse). The width at frame 15 is 25'. The top of the well is at the O2 level(halfway up the lower part of the superstructure). The aft end of the main deck may need changed too,depending on the configuration of the Comstock. Some ships had a triangular extension at the aft end to increase deck space. Others had the deck the same width as the chine. The kit is pretty good except for the well. Robert Morris North Benton OH USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Kris Chaconas" Subject: Tribal DD To: The party that was looking for a Tribal Class DD. I don't know what scale you were interested in, But, Revell made one in 1/720 that was included w/ an HMS Ark Royal, full hull and waterline option. I have one and will never build it,(never say never) if that scale or model interests you let me know. Jim Chaconas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Cooper, Mike" Subject: TV Progs Dear SMMlies Just caught the tail end of a striking little half hour prog yesterday on BBC2 on the sinking of the Lancastria, BUT Monday Channel 4 8pm is a prog on the "raising of a 1945 U Boat". U-534?? Anyhow, sounds like its worth a watch Mike Cooper Dull and Dismal Reading UK PS. Is my maths wrong, or isn't this year the 85th anniversery of Jutland? By the way don't forget to remember Flers on 15th September. I'll be at Colours at the Hexagon in Reading that day - part of our club display with be "subs and sub-hunters". WW2 subs and escorts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: RhinoBones/Pelayo So Steve, RhinoBones is NOT your true name??? I feel betrayed!!!! BTW I like Jadar's Pelayo too. There are pictures showing some of the details of the ship and the model on the Jadar website too so those of you who are interested can have look a before buying. Regards DARIUS PRZEZDZIECKI (be warned it will be D.P.next time) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Michael Bartel Subject: Re: Where Nautilus goes >>> What about the varous versions of Jules Vernes Nautilus? Would these go in hypothetical, sci-fi or submarines? << >> I assume you're talking 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea Nautilus. It would go in either sci fi or hypothetical as the rules are currently written. Modelers choice. <<< I would presume that this also applies to Roy Scheider's seaQuest DSV and Walter Pidgeon's Seaview. (???) How about the 'submerging' space submarines in Space Battleship Yamato? (they 'submerge' into adjacent dimensions.) Mike Bartel IHP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: AAA Hobby Supply Subject: Re: Open letter to the SMML I will be happy to answer who I am in any and all emails, as Shane indicated. If you had paid attention Mr Wiper, I had been posting with AAA Hobbies and my older email address behind it. Why does it bother you so? Does this have anything to do with the Arizona kit, my mild bashing of their engineerign choices and your defense of what a fine kit it is? The kit may or may not be a pantograph, but it was certainly engineered in all the same wrong ways the Revell kit was. If they wanted to copy a kit, they should have bought a resin one. But I guess the ChiComms are too cheap to buy a real model, regardless of whose it was. Since the email link to me must be broken (since nobody has bothered to ask who I am), I will divulge the deep dark secret of my true (?) identity. I am ....... James Corley. Owner of: AAA Hobby Supply 1474 Roswell Road Marietta, GA 30062 USA as well as the owner of : Nautilus Models 1474 Rswell Road Marietta, GA 30062 USA Either way, my phone number at the shop is (770) 973-5666. Either I will be there or my trusted manager Rusty will be. On the rare occasion, we both take the same day off and either Mark or Kevin will answer the phone. I hope I have pleased those who worry who is whom on the list. All the posts from me in the fututre will simply state :AAAHobby (aaahobby@earthlink.net). I will make the bold assumption that those of you reading this will remember this and my name. But don't whine too much if you are so worried about who I am, but do not take the suggestion of the listmaster and even be bothered to email me and ask me yourself! How lazy and pedantic are you? So get used to it. I sign my name when I think about it. If you can't handle it, get over it or yell at me. It doesn't matter, because I don't care and usually skip the posts that have NOTHING to do with ships. JZ (Before you ask, those were my operating initials at NMM and ZTL, the airplane types will understand) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Randall.O'Malley@clarica.com Subject: Signing names Folks, this business of anonymity vs. identification is getting out of hand. Model building is a hobby for goodness sakes, or for some a not too serious occupation. If you are writing something so potentially offensive that you must remain anonymous then you are using the wrong forum. If you need verifiable identity with every letter then your primary interest is not ship modelling. If the info or comments are useful I don't care who wrote it; if the content is useless or annoying I care even less who wrote it. Life is too short and too long to worry about such trivialities. Besides, what good is knowing someone's name if he lives on another continent? In any case, I have corresponded with members off the list and we usually wind up exchanging names, numbers and addresses as necessary. Furthermore, the people who maintain this list are unpaid volunteers (so I understand) and they don't need some other detail to attend to. As a health care worker and cancer survivor I face life and death issues everyday and I build models to escape them. Take my advice: Lighten up and pass the sprue cutters. Sincerely, Randall O'Malley Brampton, Ontario, CANADA (not that it's any of your business) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Loren Perry Subject: Re: Open letter to the SMML >>> I would propose that there be a mandatory rule to sign your posting with your REAL, full name, or your post cannot be posted in this forum. << I agree completely. This is also a matter of courtesy to the readers. If a poster is not concerned enough to sign his name (and include a proper e-address), then his post should not be promulgated via SMML readership. <<< I also firmly agree with Steve. Aliases have no place here. Anyone wanting to hide their true identities out of shame, malice, or timidity need not participate in on-line discussions and may go elsewhere. Loren Perry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: ZMzimmerman@cs.com Subject: Names With continuing assaults on privacy I can understand why some people prefer to use a pen name on line. I support their wish for anonymity completly. But, (you knew one was coming) if you are going to bust someone's chops have the guts to use your name. Michael Zimmerman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Lester Abbey" Subject: Re: Actual Names Ok Herr Wiper I Konfess, Meinen name ist Martin Bormann. I haf been living in Wellington New Zealand since 1946 posing as a middle aged businessman and using the name Lester Abbey. This is getting ever more difficult now that I'm 104. Your clever ploy has finally flushed me out. To all of my German compatriots please exkuse meinen terrible grammer. It has been so long - Ich vergesse nur alles. MB (AKA Lester Abbey) Wellington NEw Zealand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Names >> No No NO NO! As a father with young kids on the internet, the awful, pornographic spam that gets dumped and forced into my mailbox is disgusting. As I append regularly, and the spammers scan this website regularly, I will get spam - guaranteed. So in response I change my email address often. It gives me 8 to 12 months of spam free peace - at least lets leave my name (and therefor my kids names) out of it as well. Most long term SMML people know my real handle anyway, and I am sure the other folks who use handles are known to most of us. << Actually the list has grown large enough that I don't know who is lurking behind all the nom-de-plumes!! As to email scavengers, most do so with software that just looks for a standard format address. Putting an obvious addition like the word nospam between the @ and domain usually works quite well, though in actuality I don't think that this particular list is that fertile a ground for spammers. I post here quite often and get very little spam - at least from porno sites (drat!!! :-) ) I do however get quite a few on consolidating my debts which reflecting on the size of my kit closet and the cost of resin kits may say something! :-) Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Open letter to the SMML Steve Wiper wrote: >> I would propose that there be a mandatory rule to sign your posting with your REAL, full name, or your post cannot be posted in this forum. << Dave Riley wrote: >> I agree completely. This is also a matter of courtesy to the readers. If a poster is not concerned enough to sign his name (and include a proper e-address), then his post should not be promulgated via SMML readership. << To paraphrase Patrick Henry, although I disagree with your right to post anonymously, I will defend to the death of the internet your right to do so. I believe that this is a personal choice. There are those that use handles that I take seriously, long time posters whose credibility has been established, such as Boatbuilder and Rhinobones, and a few others. However, as another poster stated every member of this list must take it on faith that my real name is: Mike Settle I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume