Subject: SMML VOL 1329 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 01:26:56 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: CV-6 reply to Harold 2: For Yamatoholics Only! 3: hull plating 4: The real HMS Blackthorn 5: Dimensions of Gato conning tower 6: German battleship Super Size it! 7: Re: Submarines 8: Re: Super battleships 9: Re: NZ Joke 10: Re: German H Class Battleships 11: Atlantic Star and red paint. again 12: Prinz Eugen, again 13: Kidd-class conversion in 1/350th scale - Starline 14: USN 5" single mount - WW II destroyers 15: The Super Battleships that Never Were -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: 2002 IPMS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Dunagain Decals -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: CV-6 reply to Harold Harold, I apologize for the late reply - email problems. You may want to check the CV6.org web site. Joel Shepard has a modelers Q&A section on this web site. Also if you don't have it already, purchase the Classic Warships "Yorktown Class Carrier" book. There are many excellent photos including a couple of the bridge, post refit. Also I believe John Snyder is correct in that Enterprise only wore the dazzle scheme for a brief period of time. I will forward your questions to friend who is pretty knowledgeable on this topic. Good luck, Steve Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Mike Connelley Subject: For Yamatoholics Only! Howdy: For all you Yamatoholics out there, I've come upon a bit of information. One of the differences between the Skulski book and the Tamiya kit is that the large reels on the forecastle are in a straight line in the Skulski book. I noticed in a photo of the Musashi's forecastle that this is not the case. All of the nice photos of the forecastle of the Yamato class are of the Musashi. The reel on the left (the smallest one, labeled D in Skulski) is about a meter aft of it's location in Skulski's book. My calculations show a difference of 1.15m, but there are considerable measurement uncertainties so I probably shouldn't quote a number with that many significant figures. The photo I measured is on pg 91 of the hard cover Gakken book on the Yamato. If anyone would like, I can send them the math but it's not pretty. Also, given that I did all of this on Mauna Kea (elev.13,789ft.) I should check I figures again, but just by eyeball it looks like that reel is farther aft. This is not to say that the Skulski book is wrong, it's just not right for the Musashi. Chalk this up as another potential difference between the two. Kind of like the bow issue, the Skulski book isn't wrong since it's about the Yamato, and not about the Musashi. On another note, I also noticed that the ships didn't have the 25mm tripple mounts on the turret tops duing the operations around Leyte Gulf. As I recall, the Tamiya Musashi kit includes these. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: hull plating >> My current project is the BWN 1/350th scale USS Juneau. I am going to simulate hull plating on this kit, and have thought of a few ways to attempt this. 1. Masking off alternate areas on the hull in the shape of the hull plates, then applying a semi-thick coat of primer. After removing the tape, there would be alternate low and high plates. << Devin: The first method you suggested will work at 1/350 scale. Use a very good quality masking tape such as 3M 218 Fine Line Tape and make sure to burnish the edges down to make a very good seal against the hull to eliminate any creep under the tape. The typical finish coat of paint of airbrushed paint being .003 inch thick should produce a noticeable difference in the plate edges when applied over the primed area. Take care, Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "James Hathaway" Subject: The real HMS Blackthorn Hello all- I just looked into Peter Elliott's "Escort Ships of World War 2" for HMS Blackthorn. Firstly, the USCGC Blackthorn was a bouy tender which bears no resemblance to the model. There was an HMS Blackthorn, although she was not a Flower Class as the model shows. HMS Blackthorn was an Admiralty Trawler of the Tree Class. The book has a photo on page 284. Jim Hathaway -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Dimensions of Gato conning tower I want to secure the dimensions of the Gato conning tower. See attached. If anyone of our fine SMML group has them, please send them to me off line. I really would appreciate your help. http://nautilusmodels.com/lionfish/gato-3.JPG Thank you, John Kutina - Seattle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "John Rule" Subject: German battleship Super Size it! >> I am pretty sure Dulin & Garzke have this and other German/DKM "H" class conjectural battleships in their "Axis Battleships of World War II/Two". As I recall, it was wildly impractical because: 1) It wouldn't fit in any German (controlled) harbor, 2) It wouldn't fit in the Kiel Canal 3) It had too much draft for the bay around Denmark and German (Heigoland Bight or something sorta close) << I don't think that any of the above would have mattered as I have it on good authority that Hitler planned to have the ship lifted by airships and towed behind 122 of the latest version of the 64 engined Messerschmidt 623 Super Gigant. It was said to have a top speed of 322 mph. Thank goodness the war ended when it did. Phew!!!!! John Twelveinch (I don't use it as a rule) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Submarines >> I have been reading 'War Beneath The Sea' by Peter Padfield. Does anyone make a kit of a British 'U' or 'T' Class Submarine in any scale? Upholder would be a good choice. Also does anyone know what shade of blue British submarines in the Mediterranean were painted? << Pitroad in its' Seawolf series of resin kits had a British T-class in 1:350 resin. The website said it is sold out, but someone (Bill Gruner) may be able to get ahold of one. They also had an M-class, but no U-class. Can't help you with the paint scheme. BTW, I found Padfield's book to be highly derivative of earlier published materials, such as "Clear the Bridge", "Silent Victory" and a number of U-boat books. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Re: Super battleships Hi, gang All the recent talk about the German super battleships isn't that far-fetched. As all megalomaniac dictators (and wich dictator isn't megalomaniac) Hitler was fond of anything big and enormous. Not only for ships, but also in armour. See the Maus for instance, a huge but hopelessly impractical tank. And if you think 50 cm guns are huge, remember the Germans had a 80 cm railway gun, wich they used to pound Sebastopol. The thing was so enormous it needed two railway tracks side by side to ride upon. If not enormous enough they even thought about to mount it on tracks! The thing would have weighted 1500 tons! It would even have had a secondary armanent with two 15 cm guns! Nah, mine's bigger! (Eat your heart out, Freud!) Erwin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Denis L Johnson Subject: Re: NZ Joke I have just returned from a long motoring trip & am catching up on SMML. That's why I am so late in replying to the description of HMCS Wetaskiwin as a "...New Zealand joke". Wetaskiwin was built at the same shipyard, Burrard Dry Docks, at about the same time as my father's corvette Agassiz. Her captain, Lt Com. Windeyer visited our house. Canada named her corvettes after cities instead of flowers. I would think that was a good idea as some sailors might feel uncomfortable walking around with say "Buttercup" on their caps. That is just an assumption of mine, so please don't take that as an insult to those British sailors who did! A second reason, they say, was that the cities might adopt the ships & send lashings of cookies, woolen socks etc. Since Canada was/is a small country, it was a bit short of cities and they had to use the names of some pretty small ones. IIRC, Agassiz (located just East of Vancouver) was that it was basically a wide place on the road to the Fraser Canyon. Wetaskiwin was a somewhat larger town in Alberta. Some Canadian cities have hard-to-spell names. So. On a related subject, I am scratch-building a model of Agassiz in 1:144 scale. It is my first ship model & if I had it all to do over I would use a more popular scale. I have made winchesdepthchargeslifeboatsventilatorsdavits you name it but I am defeated by railings. Does anybody know of a source railings at a scale close to 1:144? Please? Denis Johnson P.S. If anybody living in Agassiz is insulted by what I said above & knows where I can get 1:144 railings, I apologise. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: doug brown Subject: Re: German H Class Battleships Greetings, The thread has pointed out several great references on the German H Class battleships, but there are some good summaries on the Web as well: Good text document with specifications and history: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/history/marshall/military/wwii/German.navy/german_hclass_bat.txt Specifications on Warships.com site http://www.warships1.com/GERbb09_HClass_specs.htm Line drawings on Warships.com site http://www.warships1.com/GERbb09_HClass_pics.htm Battleship H (only H Class begun), keel laid 15 Jul 39 http://www.warships1.com/GERbb09_Hclass_build.jpg Hope this helps for folks without access to print references! Doug -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Darshan Ward" Subject: Atlantic Star and red paint. again Ahoy there shipmates, Heller's little Atlantic Star is still sitting on my workbench, much admired but lacking any kind of history. No info came with the kit and research failed to find to turn up any mention. Could this be another ficticious ship? Probably not. Apart from being a wooden hull paddle steamer c 1840 flying GB, FR, & US flags. Has anybody ever heard of this ship??? As for the red paint, another current project is WEM's excellent CHESTER. Knowing the RN's fondness for painting insides of gun shields, breeches, training and loading gear etc red, would this be an approiate application of an important colour detail? Still in this case very much a mystery. In 1916 many large and small RN ships were equiped with open shielded primary and secondary armament. Was red paint regulation or discretionary practice at that time? Can anybody shed any light here please. There is of course the famous painting of Jack Cornwell VC remaining at his post on the quarterdeck 5.5in during Jutland. I have the image of the picture in my mind's eye and if it hangs in the IWM London I may even have seen it many years ago, but you know my minds eye doesn't remember any red! But then the artist was probably not there either. Keep on modelling. Dave W. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Jodie Peeler Subject: Prinz Eugen, again hello all.... Paul Jacobs wrote: >> This proposal would be laughable if the guy wasn't so serious. This is a good example of a ship fanatic whose come up with a rationalization for trying to save a worthless wreck that he's obsessed over. If he's really interested in promoting peace, then he should raise the money for some other endeavor, rather than spending many millions on restoring the PRINZ. I'd bet money that it will never happen. << This is true -- and if he's really a ship fanatic, he'd realize there are a LOT of ships that are more or less still intact that need this kind of big money and attention and general doting. The money it would take for what he's wanting to do with Prinz Eugen would work minor miracles at a heap of museums that currently exist (am I not right, Shirley?), or a major miracle for a ship that's still intact but whose future is in the balance (not that I have any in mind, of course). Leave the poor Prinz Eugen be; leave her to rust in peace. Besides, her present state, as well as those of the other Crossroads victims, forms a mighty eloquent plea for world peace as it is. There are few things in my mind that are more eerie than images of those wrecks. jodie http://www.mindspring.com/~raisingirl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: thorstenwahl@t-online.de (Wahl, Thorsten) Subject: Kidd-class conversion in 1/350th scale - Starline Hi Gang, somebody enquired about a 1/350th scale conversion for Dragon/DML´s Spru-Cans to built a Kidd- (or Ayatollah-?)class DDG. Starline of Australia did a conversion for the DMLs a few years ago, don´t know whether they are still in business. If yes, mail me, Kevin ;-) Anyone´s interested, mail me and I could send a scan of the instructions so you get a feel for the contents. Alternatively could try to do an ITB kind of review for the site. Best Thors ´At least we don´t name our ships for our mothers-in-law.´ USS Reuben James to HMS Battleaxe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: HAZEGRAYADM@aol.com Subject: USN 5" single mount - WW II destroyers Is it just my being a nit picker or does the Mark 30 base ring mounts for the 5" single turrets have enough offset (6" to the left) to be shown in 1/350 scale? My old kit of the 1/700 Fletcher by Matchbox, while being more heavy handed than a lumberjack, does have the turrets with the unique non-consentric shape and includes the extra bevel on the roofs of the 51 & 55 mounts also. I'm surprised that Tamiya missed this in their otherwise beautiful 1/350 (AND 1/700) Fletcher kit. I hope other manufacturers have picked up on this. This may be an old thread that I missed since I'm kind of new to the SMML, but I would like some comment on same. Does the resin DD kits that use these turrets (They go back to the Sims class) have this feature? Bert McDowell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: The Super Battleships that Never Were HI GANG, HERZ SOME INFO. ON THE "SUPER BATTLESHIPS. http://www.teleport.com/~chalu/tsbtwnb.html J. D. AN' MISS FLO NEDRESKI THE CRITTERRANCH BEAUFORT, S.C. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: 2002 IPMS I thought I saw a note in a previous edition of SMML that the 2002 IPMS meet will be held in Virginia Beach. Is that confirmed? Is there a place I can get details? Thanks, Steve Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Re: Dunagain Decals Here is a good source for Dunagain Decals. http://www.modelshipbuilding.com/dunagain.htm Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume