Subject: SMML VOL 1331 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 01:47:15 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: I finished a model! 2: Story - Expedition finds wreck of giant battlecruiser Hood 3: 5"/38 cal. gun offset correction 4: Airbrushing Tips 5: Re: Lattice masts in etched brass 6: revell germanys lit # 05065 7: Yamato Wreck Photos 8: Re: British Submarines 9: Rigging for America of America's Cup fame 10: USS VOGELGESANG 11: A Bismarck Question 12: Solder and glue applicators 13: Re: PE set for CVL? 14: "Hood live webcast" 15: Hull plating 16: Hood site 17: 6" in 1/350 scale 18: Re: Noah's Ark 19: Semi-Scratch Built Definition 20: Acronyms and slang -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: I finished a model! Actually, ten models! Well, OK, I haven't added the jacks and signal flags, but I don't have them yet. What's done: Revell 1/720 USS New Jersey, massively updated with parts from Skywave sets and other plastic and resin kits, balsa and bass wood, sheet and strip styrene, PE brass and stainless steel, brass rod, copper wire, and tippet thread. This is my record for the most different materials used in a model. Everything else in 1/700: Sealine USS Long Beach ARII Spruance DD as USS Merrill Skywave Spruance DD converted to Kidd-class USS Chandler AFV Club Knox FF as USS Stein Skywave OHP as USS Copeland Revell USS Thach Dragon LA class SSN (I haven't found which one was with the group yet) Skywave Krivak Dragon Echo-class SSGN Also a P-3 Orion, and a flight of teeny-weeny helicopters: CH-53, SH-3, AH-1, UH-1, CH-46, 2 SH-60s and 4 SH-2s. I even added MAD booms and torps to the last. Oog, my eyes almost crossed permanently while doing that. Yup, this is the BB SAG I've mentioned in the past. All that's left is a Corsair Armada Garcia converted to a Brooke-class FFG, and a scratch-built Wichita-class AOR. (Unless one of you nice resin-type peoples saves me from embarrassing myself with my inadequate wood-shaping skills.) Oh, the Krivak will be part of a Kirov SAG, not that unit "obtained" by the USN. Same thing with the Echo. So get to work, you slackers, and stop worrying about whether a ship with a misaligned decal and missing aerial should be judged "hypothetical". Get building those lonely kits in the closet; find one you've almost finished and get it done! No more excuses - I expect everyone in the group to finish at least one model this summer. Hop to it! Sand, glue, paint, sand, glue, paint! Let's get busy! Build first, _then_ post. Joe Poutre PS: I can't post pictures yet, except small ones or blurry closeups. I need my brother to find his digital camera, or my father to visit with his fancy SLR with all the doodads. That's also holding up my Garcia-Brooke conversion, since I promised to write it up with photos. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Ned Barnett (interned@accessnv.com) has sent you a news article Subject: Story - Expedition finds wreck of giant battlecruiser Hood This is bound to excite Hood modelers, and stir up lots of new controversy (and maybe even inspire an ocean-bottom diorama of the Hood. Expedition finds wreck of giant battlecruiser Hood http://uk.news.yahoo.com/010724/80/bz8tc.html Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: 5"/38 cal. gun offset correction >> and the fact that the gun is mounted offset in the gun house to the left or port side. << I must be getting senile and I beg your indulgence: what I had meant to write was that the 5"/38 calibre single gun mount looked asymmetrical. In plan view the gun was mounted on the fore and aft centerline of the circular base mount, but the gun house itself overhangs the circular base mount on the left side a bit more than on the right. This makes the barrel of the gun appear, in plan view, as if it were mounted offset to the *right* of the centerline of the gun house, not left as I've written above. The BlueJacket 1/192 scale kit captures this offset nicely, and this asymmetry can be seen in Al Ross' AOtS "The Destroyer USS THE SULLIVANS" and in Alan Raven's "The FLETCHER Class Destroyers". Dang! These senior moments are occurring more frequently. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Member, Nautical Research Guild Tin Can Sailors IPMS/USA #3345 As an addendum to the above post on the offset gun houses on US Navy 5"/38 calibre gun mounts, I believe the gun house was offset to the left of the centerline of the circular base (and the gun itself) to provide more room inside for the 8 or 9 man gun crew. The projectile and powder case were loaded separately and from the left side of the gun. Having additional room inside the gun house for this evolution was made possible by widening the house on the left side of the weapon. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Ken Youngstrom Subject: Airbrushing Tips I, too, had never used an airbrush, and bought the Aztek 370 and a compressor from ME. Built a generously sized spray booth in the garage from a kitchen exhaust hood and sheet Plexiglas, then it sat for 6 or 8 months, unused. A couple of weeks ago I set aside the wooden stick/strings models that are my usual forte and pulled out a 1:12 Tamiya MiniCooper (raced them long ago) to be a sacrificial offering to learning the airbrush, before trying a Tamiya Fletcher. Watched the video that came with the airbrush a couple of times, then sprayed water with some food coloring to see what was happening. Finally I thinned out some Tamiya airbrushing acrylics and started spraying. WOW! Where have you been all my life? Ok, so I rushed it and overdid it a little - got some holidays in tight angles, but overall, I'm thrilled. I even mixed up some japan color and it sprayed perfectly on wood. It's great. Will I ever reach the levels seen on the tape and on some super detailed models? Probably not, but it's orders of magnitude over brushing. Buy it, and just do it. I was thinking about posting this note anyway, both here and on the more wood-oriented SMF. I wonder how many other things like airbrushes there are that existing users assume that everyone knows about, but potential users are frightened off by price and/or assumed difficulty of use? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "R N Pearson" Subject: Re: Lattice masts in etched brass >> I am familiar with using straight edges to get crisp inside bends from a etched brass sheet, but the White Ensign O/P Class destroyer etched sheet has two lattice masts, of very small cross-section. I would appreciate any advice on how to get a good result. << To do my O/P lattice masts I placed the part on my light table, put a steel erasing shield over that along the desired bend, and then used the blade of an exacto knife to bend it up along the length. Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Harry Gilday" Subject: revell germanys lit # 05065 does any body know where i can purchase revell germanys kit #05065submarine USS SKIPJACK SSN585 scale: 1/232??. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Ken LeClair" Subject: Yamato Wreck Photos Hello All, would appreciate any info on web sites with details and photos, etc of the Yamato wreck. Also, I'm a Marine Electrical Tech serving on the HMCS Protecteur, Canadian AOR Class, so if anyone needs info or anything on Modern Canadian vessals, feel free to email me. Regards, Ken LeClair -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: British Submarines There is a new book just out by that well-known author Antony Preston titled "The Royal Navy Submarine Service" and published by Conway Maritime Press. It covers British submarines from the very first in February 1901 to the latest in February 2001. It sells for about $32. For details go to: http://www.batsford.com/books/sbn/78917 Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: ASTRIDCARL@aol.com Subject: Rigging for America of America's Cup fame Need instructions of how to rig the original America, the sailing ship that started the America's Cup races. Can anyone guide me to a diagram for my son-in -law to finish his model? Thanks. Carl Erickson Potomac, Maryland -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Carlos Villaseņor" Subject: USS VOGELGESANG Did anybody said USS VOGELGESANG? She is now comissioned with the Mexican Navy, the Captain was so kind to allow me (and my wife and kids) to take a tour of the ship last May, I must confess I havenīt been on a ship like this before but everything seems to have been in place since WW II, except for a small GPS receiver and computer to view digital maps, the bridge, the guns, torpedoes, even the kitchen looks the same, etc. I canīt remember itīs mexican designation Ilhuicamina or Moctezuma as far I can recall, but the letters VOGELGESANG are clealy visible, If some of you ever come to Acapulco, go to the Navy base, Iīm pretty sure they will allow a visit even on work days. Carlos A. Villaseņor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Kevin Surjan" Subject: A Bismarck Question Hi all, I noticed that the team, which was looking for the Hood, had visited the Bismarck. I was wondering if there were able to determine what colour the Bismarck's turret tops were? Just wondering. Regards, Kevin Surjan Perth, Western Australia -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Doug Wilde" Subject: Solder and glue applicators The topic of Solder It is a great introduction to some items that may be of value to modelers. EFD www.efd-inc.com These folks make dispensers, usually for the electronics industry. These range from manual through electronically controlled and programmable dispensers. They offer a wide range of barrels you can load yourself as well as dispenser tips in many sizes, beveled, and angled. Tips typically run $11 to $15 for a box of 50. They have products especially developed for CA applications. I don't know how much their 900 dispenser costs, but the idea of simply touching a foot switch to dispense a consistent, precise, bead of CA, or any other goo, well I'd like to think about it (after banishing the cats to another room). Their solder product is called SolderPlus. Most of their products are described on their website and are downloadable as PDF files. For those that want to explore the applicability of their products to use by modelers (and I hope some of you try a few things and report back to us) a demo kit is available. I have no association with this company, just wonder if their products can make our job a bit easier and our models better. Doug Wilde -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: PE set for CVL? >> Is there a PE set for the Skywave/Revell USS Independence class CVLs? I looked at the usual suspects' lists and did not see one, but maybe I missed it? << There's Tom's escort carrier set (generic) http://www.tomsmodelworks.com/images/brasssets/escortCV.jpg GMM's set for the Skywave Independence: http://goldmm.com/ships/gms7w2le.htm Plus various sets from both of rails, hatches and aircraft parts etc from the above and White Ensign Who are you usual suspects?? :-) Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: "Hood live webcast" Hi you all... The following message just in by e-mail from the Hood expedition.... all very historic! >> The Hunt for the Hood expedition team will be broadcasting footage of the wreck live from the North Atlantic at 3.30pm this afternoon. The pictures will be transmitted via the Seacast satellite system, on board the Northern Horizon. Back in London, they are pulled down and encoded in real time for publication on the web (Real Video format). Commenting on the pictures will be experts Bill Jurens and Dr Eric Grove. To see the webcast, visit the expedition website at www.channel4.com/hood. New still pictures of the Hood are also available, along with breaking news and up-to-the minute information. The Hood Team << regards Simon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Wilgossett@aol.com Subject: Hull plating Regarding this thread, the Nautical Research Journal, June 1997, contains a 20 page article about hull plating on both full size and model steel/iron ship hulls with photos and drawings. Very thorough with suggestions for modeling, and prototype plating rules. This publication is top-notch. Will Gossett Atlanta -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: Hood site Hi you all... The Hood site has approximately eight photos at the moment, they say more photos are expected. Can't help thinking of Ted Briggs (the only living survivor of her complement) being reunited with his former ship, the emotions and feelings he must have felt on seeing her again. As with photos from the Bismarck there is a picture of a boot on the ocean floor. >> It wasn't until we saw the hull of the great vessel herself that we knew we had achieved our mission. She was in a sorry state. The forward part of the ship - with the bow missing - was upside down resting on its deck << regards Simon Wolff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Doug Marrel Subject: 6" in 1/350 scale 6" in 1/350 translates to .0017" (.043mm) for you furriners). The dollar bill in your pocket runs about .003 to .005" thick, so you are tailking between 1/3 and 1/2 of the thickness of a piece of paper. At 1/700 that's .0008". Maybe you can see it it you REALLy highlighted it, but otherwise it's prettty darn small. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Noah's Ark >> The only problem I see might be with Noah's Ark. Obviously there will be a necessity for some conjectural modeling there, but we each have our own opinions on the "reality" of it. << Hi; Look up Fernando Navarro and sign up for his next hike up Mt. Arrarat. Some of the photos and satellite views I saw on the last TV presentation could give you a few good ideas here. I have seen some of the pieces of wood he brought down on earlier expeditions. Just need an exceptionally rainless winter for a few years in a row....... Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister http://www.egroups.com/group/WoodenWalls Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Edwparent@aol.com Subject: Semi-Scratch Built Definition Franklyn, There already is such a category. At the 1995 Scale Ship Model Competition & Exposition. (at which I got demolished), they had an organization as follows: DIVISION I- Scratchbuilt: Models employing no manufactured items except cordage, chain, and such fastenings as pins and nails. Such materials as dimensioned lumber, sheet metal, tibing, wire, and milled shapes are allowed as raw materials. Photo etched, laser cut, cast or similar parts mechanically or chemically duplicated by others from the entrants original master or pattern, shall be considered as scratch built. DIVISION II- Semi-Scratchbuilt: Models based on scratchbuilt hulls, but employing fittings designed and produced by others. DIVISION III- Kit: Models based on commercial kits or hulls, with or without the addition of other commercial fittings or scratch built parts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Randall.O'Malley@clarica.com Subject: Acronyms and slang Now that the names debate has subsided I would like to make a more useful, less divisive proposal: Minimize the use of acronyms, short-forms, and slang when posting messages. Overuse of the aforementioned is often confusing and leads to frustration for inexperienced (ship) modellers and new subscribers to the list. It took me awhile to realize that "BTW" stood for "by the way". Why abbreviate a needless phrase anyway? I still don't know what "BB" or "WEM" stands for. Be brief but make sense. If you must use a lesser known abbreviation or acronym, clarify by using the long form at least once in your message. "Another trouble maker with too much time on his hands", you may be thinking. Quite the opposite, I don't have time to figure out short-forms and slang so I move on or miss the point and your goal is not accomplished. How can I give you what you want if I don't know what you want. I have been a soldier, a paramedic, a student pilot, and a financial advisor. All these fields use their own acronyms: The letters "AAA" could stand for a burst blood vessel, a pilot's association, a credit rating, or a way to shoot down planes. Even within the same context an acronym can be confusing to the uninitiated: I once thought "ATOS" stood for some sort of Australian naval vessel instead of "Anatomy of the Ship". Slang is another problem, especially when communicating across borders and generation gaps: "Hooch" can be a makeshift shelter or alcohol; both were equally important to a Canadian sailor in the North Atlantic or a River Rat in Viet Nam. Let's all try to use simple language that any ten-year old can understand. Be thoughtful and polite. Always proof read and run spell checker. Then, nobody will care what your name is except to thank you. So long, I'm off in my VW to drive down to the DQ - or maybe KFC. Randy O'Malley Hi Randy, WEM = White Ensign Models BB = Battleship Some other common ship related acronyms used here are: S&S = Synder and short CA = Corsair Armada OR superglue depending on context ISW = Iron Shipwrights CW = Classic Warships APMA = Australian Plastic Modeller's Assoc IPMS = Interational Plastic Modeller's Society PSM = Plastic Ship Modeler IM = Internet Modeller CA = Heavy Cruiser CL = Light Cruiser DD = Destroyer DE = Destroyer Escort DDG = Guilded missile destroyer FF = Frigate FFG = Guilded missile frigate CV = Carrier CVN = Nuclear carrier SS = Diesal attack sub SSN = Nuclear attack sub That should get you started ;-) If anyone gets confused over any TLA (three letter acronym) used here, all they have to do is ask. The use of these have evolved over time and no real harm is meant by them. There are sites that list common internet acronyms but I don't have them to hand at the moment. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume