Subject: SMML VOL 1337 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 00:42:16 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Highly doubtful, but I have to check 2: Re: WWII Subchaser 3: Sussex - next stage 4: IJN CV camouflage website 5: Neds Hobby - bayonet sharpening 6: WW II Sub Chaser 7: WW II Subchaser 8: Re: Harbor Tour "deal' 9: Re: WWII Subchaser 10: Open letter to Bob Steinbrunn 11: Models for museum 12: WWII USN Colors, Cross-referenced to FS Numbers 13: WHICH CLEAR KOTE? 14: British coastgaurd 15: Re: WWII Subchaser 16: Fishing line sheen 17: DML 1:350 USS Bunker Hill (CG-52) 18: Re: W.W.II Subchaser 19: Re: 19th Century French torpedo boats 20: Re: Lindberg LCI 21: Re: Mel Gibson playing an American naval captain 22: Re: The Captain and the Shark 23: Lindbergh Pearl Harbor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: MiniCON - Calling all SMML folk! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Highly doubtful, but I have to check OK, I know this is probably the biggest crock of nuts, but... According to a member of another list I am on, the _original_ Renwal USS George Washington SSBN model, with the fold-down hull, had a small scribing on a bulkhead that, when checked with a magnifying glass, turned out to be a Playboy centerfold. Has anyone ever heard of this? Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: WWII Subchaser >> CH123. Would anybody know what was the number of this particular boat in the US Navy? << CH 123 was the former SC 1029, built by Donovan contracting and completed 13NOV42. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Sussex - next stage Hi all More impressions on the construction of the White Ensign Sussex. I've now attached all the superstructure and the ship is beginning to look quite interesting. It is important to paint the superstructure and hull before assembling it otherwise you run into serious problems. Before assembling the deckhouses I added the pillars which support the shelter deck. Locations for these can be found on the Sambrook plans which do, however, miss two of them, located at the front of the foremost port and starboard Oerlikon tubs. The ladders I added after I fixed the superstructure to the hull. There are 11 ladders to be fitted and I found myself using Toms ladders in preference to the White Ensign ones which I wanted to reserve for the bridge. I also added the pom poms using the WEM resin versions which are really stunning. I did use the etched brass railings just to give a bit extra to the parts. Fitting the ladders was not really difficult, even with those needing to be dropped through the slots cut in the shelter deck and once complete they look really good. One thing that both the kit and the plans miss out on is that there should be a single ladder behind A turret on the port side leading the shelter deck just in front of B turret. Once this is installed though, you will need to re-adjust A turret which makes me suspect that the turrets are overscale (see problems with X and Y in my earlier posting). The two cable reels on the port side also need to be re-positioned to take account of this ladder. White Ensign have the 4 inch gun deck open at its ends. These should be enclosed and I added the walls from plasticard. They also have the rear of the foremast platform open and this also should be enclosed. Once again the photos are extremely clear on these points. I also enclosed the lower bridge as the photos seemed to suggest that this was so. Behind the splinter matting in the August 1942 photos there seemed to be steel plating and later photos also suggest that the lower deck was plated in. The etched brass frames should be located directly above the other and just to the outside of the two observation housings at the front of the lower bridge. This means that the rather nice winches have to be re-positioned near the edge of the shelter deck. I found fitting the bridge ladders tricky especially the ones from the lower bridge to the upper bridge as the new bridge walls left me very little space to play with. However the end result was worth it. Once the main bridge ladders are out of the way there are several other little ladders to add which can be found on the plans. These should be fitted as they make a huge difference. I added the other bridge parts at this stage, I do wish that White Ensign would do resin compass binnacles and pelorus as I much prefer I 3D effect. Whatever, the end result is a structure that fully captures the complexity of the original. I decided to tackle the Carley floats next. White Ensign provide 14 of these which unfortunately is not enough. Careful study of the photos show 22 in all. Two more should be located in the fore location (one either side) and three each side on top of the 4 inch gun shelter. They should be camouflaged but only in one colour, I could not find any two colour floats. That's all for now - more to come on masts, funnels and paravanes. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Allanparry Subject: IJN CV camouflage website To IJN CV enthusiasts. I've just started a website for 1944-45 IJN CV camouflage; http://www.geocities.com/ijncv/ Could be useful to modellers Allan Parry Could be useful????? Allan that has to be the understatement of the year ;-) Nice going. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Jim Klein" Subject: Neds Hobby - bayonet sharpening Ned sharpening the blade of a vintage edged weapon ruins its collector value. So don't do it. A good rule of thumb for any artifact is "leave it as you found it". If you want something to fidget with in front of the TV, try sorting a jumbo bag of M&M's by color. Unless you are seriously uncoordinated, you won't need safetly glasses. JK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Art Herrick" Subject: WW II Sub Chaser from DarekL tonclass@sympatico.ca Darek, You asked: >> The second question is about the pennant number. Since the plan shows this vessel under french flag its pennant number is CH123. Would anybody know what was the number of this particular boat in the US Navy ? << See the book U.S. NAVAL SMALL COMBATANTS, by Norman Friedman, Naval Institute Press, 1987, page 483: SC 1029, built by Donovan Contracting, Laid down 4/27/42, Launched 8/31/42, Completed 11/13/42, France's CH 123, 10/30/44. Art Herrick Westmoreland NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: WW II Subchaser Darek, You state that you are buildings a "subchaser". What kind? There are two sizes -- 169' PC class, steel hull also a 110" class wooden boat. If you are building the PC or larger steel hull type, buy a book written by an ex-PC sailor. "PC Patrol Craft of World War II" by Wm. J. Veugele It has 30 engineering drawings showing PC design drawings as well as several photos. It is my understanding that, on D-Day, the first ship sunk by shore defense guns was a PC guiding landing craft to the beach.[?] I served on PC 1142 in the Western Pacific in 1945 - 46. There is a "Patrol Craft Sailors Association" museum at the Bay County Historical Museum in Bay City, Michigan If you write to them they may be helpful. Regards, John - Seattle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Harbor Tour "deal' Hi Ray Concerning the tour for $14.00.While there is a boat tour available you get that at Nauticus Museum, but the tour I went on by bus took us past all the piers .I never went on the boat cruise, thought about it but there was thunderstorm going on at the time and I didn't want to stand in lightning for photos. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Diodor@aol.com Subject: Re: WWII Subchaser Replying to Derek's question about the French CH.123, it was originally the American-built SC 1029. It was transferred to France on Oct. 30, 1944 and stricken August 12, 1953. Interior photos of WWII SC pilot houses can be obtained from Archives II in College Park, MD. Ted Treadwell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Open letter to Bob Steinbrunn Dear Mr. Steinbrunn, Please forgive the crayon, as we are not allowed any sharp objects here at Happy Valley. I use to be quite happy in my model making mediocrity. I was comfortable with a little more effort I could compete with the big boys. I knew looking at the various websites and magazine articles, that I could do that, if I really really tried. Then one day I bought a copy of Fine Scale Modeler and say YOUR model. They say the primal scream that came from within me shattered windows three blocks away. I now spend my days throwing a nerf ball at the plastic dart board they let me tape your picture to. I have also started collecting blades of grass. I have 697 blades in my torpedo launcher collection!!! I must sign off now, the nurse is bring the pretty blue pill for me to take, and after that I get cookies :-) I hate you. Keith Butterley PS All Kidding aside (pun intended) she is a beauty. I am in awe of your talent. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Models for museum Hi Guys Just got my copy of Fine Scale Modeler Magazine and in it was this article: MUSEUM CALLS FOR BATTLESHIP MODELS A new museum aboard the battleship USS New Jersey will open on Sept 1,2001at Camden ,New Jersey,and will feature an exhibit entitled "International Battleship Developement". According to Museum Curator Scott Kodger,the facility seeks loans of many specific battleship models as possible from modelers, to display for two years on board the USS New Jersey. The museum seeks high quality models of such ships as the Scharnhost, Seydlitz, Bismarck, Dreadnought, Nelson, King George V, Kongo, Yamato, South Dakota, North Carolina, Arizona, Roma, Richelieu, Dunkirk, Strasburg,and others. The museum would prefer 1/350 scale models,but accept any scale if the quality and subject matter are appropriate. Those interested in displaying their models can contact Scott Kodger at 1-856-966-1652. The exhibit will also feature a working range finder, different peroid radars consoles, armor plate, and battleship shells of various sizes. Those interested in visiting the museum can contact Karen at 1-856-966-1652 for more information. The article was located at the bottom page 11 in the September ,2001 issue.. Their website site is www.finescale.com if you want to look at it over the internet. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Teliczan Tom Civ 15 SVS/SVF Subject: WWII USN Colors, Cross-referenced to FS Numbers Would anyone out there have a handy-dandy FS # list cross-referencing those varied & numerous USN WWII Schemes to FS #s? (i.e., Deck Blue, Haze Gray, etc). If so, would really appreciate getting my paws on one. Many TIA! Tomt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: WHICH CLEAR KOTE? TRY DULL-KOTE OVER GLOSS, OR GLOSS-KOTE OVER FLAT. BOTH WILL GIVE A SATINY FINISH. DAVID -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: British coastgaurd Hi Guys Last night on the local PBS channel was a story about a volunteer manned life boat out of a town called Pembroke that was lost in 1981 while rescuing a coastal freighter along the UK southern Cornish coast. Is the concept of a volunteer manned lifeboats a regional purpose because the town of Pembroke is a fishing community. Or is it national? In the story it was shown that the UK has a Coast Guard yet the rescue helicopter used was from the RN. Is the UK Coast Guard similiar to the US Coast Guard? Because a man interviewed had his name shown with his rank with the title HM Coast Guard. Any one know anything? Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: WWII Subchaser In reply to Darekl ' Is the Splinter Fleet website you mentioned in SMML VOL 1336 the same one run by Ted Treadwell? There is a professional model builder who makes WW 2 Subchaser models. Perhaps that company would be willing to help you. Ted Treadwell has one of their models, and would supply you with the address of the builder. Taubman has plans for the WW 2 S/C, but I believe it is a different scale. But there may be a pilothouse layout on the plans. Franklyn Brown Boston Mass. (USA) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Fishing line sheen In reference to suggestions about using fishing lines for correctly sized lines and stays. How can I "kill" the sheen that is on such line? Franklyn Brown Boston, Mass. (USA) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Vmclawyer@aol.com Subject: DML 1:350 USS Bunker Hill (CG-52) SMML, A co-worker is thinking of giving her husband as a Christmas present a kit from which to build a model of his Gulf War ship, Bunker Hill. Looking on her behalf, I found the DML Bunker Hill kit, which is both reasonably priced & would be a nice sized model @ 1:350 scale. From my conversation w/his wife, I assume hubby isn't an experienced ship modeler. Questions - mini review of this kit from anybody who has built it? Assuming it's worth building, any thoughts as to whether a first time modeler could build an acceptable model from this DML kit, while maintaining a modicum of sanity? Didn't check on PE. If PE needed & available, which PE set(s) would be recommended? Thanks for your help, Bill Bryant -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: Re: W.W.II Subchaser In answer to Derek's question about the Free French Navy's use of US built 110' Sub Chasers, here is the list of these WW-I and -II built warships: WW-I built 110' SCs (Chasseurs de Sousmarins): C 1 (ex SC 5), C 4 - C 51, and C 52 - C 100 (ex SC 7 - 16, SC 28 -33, SC 65 - 67, SC 75 - 76, SC 140 - 142, SC 146, SC 160 - 163, SC 170 - 176, SC 243, SC 249, SC 313 -319, SC 347 - 348, SC 350; all boats of the first contract. SC 357 - 404, SC 406; part of the second U.S. contract for the French government). The U.S. SC 177, being in European waters, was transferred to the French Navy in place of SC 105 under the second contract. These were renumbered C 1 - 49 and SC 50 - 99 of the French Navy, out of which C 2, C 3, and another boat (possibly C 100) had been lost. Also from the WW-I era of production, four 110' SCs were supplied to the Cuban Navy, ex-SC 274, SC302, SC312, and SC314, all from the first contract. The numbers that were never built were SC 139, with these contracts canceled: SC 410, 445 - 448 (all from the third contract). The war losses were SC 60, 117, 132, 187, 209, and 219 (all from the first contract). The WW-II transfers were the following number craft: CH 5 (ex-SC 1359) CH 6 (ex-SC 1331) CH 51 (ex-SC 1336) CH 61 (ex-SC 1345) CH 62 (ex-SC 1344) CH 71 (ex-SC 1337) CH 72 (ex-SC 1346) CH 81 (ex-SC 516, 11 Oct. 1941) CH 82 (ex-SC 517, 11 Oct. 1941) CH 83 (ex-SC 519) CH 84 (ex-SC 529) CH 85 (ex-SC 507) CH 91 (ex-SC 649, 18 April 1942) CH 92 (ex-SC 697) CH 93 (ex-SC 639) CH 94 (ex-SC 977) CH 95 (ex-SC 508) CH 96 (ex-SC 497) CH 101 (ex-SC 524) CH 102 (ex-SC 525) CH 103 (ex-SC 532) CH 104 (ex-SC 533) CH 105 (ex-SC 676) CH 106 (ex-SC 690) CH 107 (ex-SC 693) CH 111 (ex-SC 522) CH 112 (ex-SC 503, 14 March 1942) CH 113 (ex-SC 506) CH 114 (ex-SC 526) CH 115 (ex-SC 530) CH 121 (ex-SC 515, 20 Sept. 1942) CH 122 (ex-SC 534) CH 123 (ex-SC 1029, 26 Aug. 1942) CH 124 (ex-SC 771) CH 125 (ex-SC 1043) CH 126 (ex-SC 1044) CH 131 (ex-SC 692) CH 132 (ex-SC 691) CH 133 (ex-SC 695) CH 134 (ex-SC 666) CH 135 (ex-SC 651) CH 136 (ex-SC 1030, 26 Aug. 1942) CH 141 (ex-SC 770) CH 142 (ex-SC 498) CH 143 (ex-SC 535) CH 144 (ex-SC 655) CH 145 (ex-SC 978) CH 146 (ex-SC 979) The 110' SCs that were shipped to the USSR were the following: BO-1 to 46 (ex SC 719-721, 1073-1076, 1283-1287, 1475-1493, 1496-1499, 1502-1512, 1517). Harold Stockton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Doug Wilde" Subject: Re: 19th Century French torpedo boats JM, I don't have an exact reference, but I may be able to point you in the right direction. Find out the name of the main French naval architect or marine engineering society and look at their publications. In the US it is The Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers. Britian has a similar organization whose name (and URL) has slipped my mind. Someone, please help me here. Their publications can be a treasure trove of articles and illustrations. I recently discovered our university library has SNAME Transactions from volume (1893) through about 1960. To give you a taste of what you may find in a similar French journal, Vol. 1 (1893) of SNAME contains: "Recent Designs of Vessels for the US Navy" by Phillip Hichborn, the Chief Constructor of the US Navy. Accompanying the article are foldout drawings of: Battleships 5 & 6 (5 drawings including in/outboard profiles, decks, plans) Gunboats 10-13, also 5 drawings of boats with 3 masts and 11,253 sq.ft of sail Gunboats 14 & 15, 5 drawings and Torpedoboat No. 8, with four drawings. And these are not bluelines, rather lithographs! Beautiful, incredibly sharp and clear lithos. Vol. 5, 1897 has "Torpedo-boat Design" with 9 drawings Vol. 6, 1898 has "The Standard Navy Boats" with 21 drawings and 17 photographs "Bilge Keels and Rolling Experiments U.S.S. Oregon" including photographs of her in drydock. Attached to the article "Torpedo Boat Destroyers for Sea Service, with Special Reference to the Conditions that Prevail on the Pacific Coast" 6:43-74, 1898 was a topical discussion "The utility of torpedo boats, and has the submarine boat a place?" Very interesting to read a contemporary discussion of "automobile torpedos", Holland's boat and the promise it holds, and many references to action at Santiago. And one that brought me up short "Coaling of the U.S.S. Massachusetts at Sea", 8:155-166, 1900 with 9 photographs, 3 illustrations, and 2 drawings. Absolutely amazing stuff. Perhaps one of our French correspondents can provide a name. SNAME's online index only goes back to about 1963. The British organization's online index goes back to the beginning, I think. Good luck and let us know what you find. Doug Wilde Now I just have to figure out a way to photocopy these drawings, some are 1/16" scale. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: Lindberg LCI The LCI kit has been claimed, folks; Thanks! Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Re: Mel Gibson playing an American naval captain >> My wife is a huge Mel Gibson fan (hence my knowledge of Gibson trivia) and I am a fan too. I am sure that he will do a fine playing the role - the question will be the movie makers. << ...And he did play against Anthony Hopkins very well in the Mutiny On The Bounty re-make. Just hoping this new flick tells the story of the Indy right. Victor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Re: The Captain and the Shark >> Victor, Victor, Victor... << Ned, Ned, Ned... You miss my point completely. Mel is a guy from Down Under, but I didn't say he was Australian. Not condemning the flick either and won't because we need all the ship flicks we can get. I'd like to see more of 'em like the original "Jaws", though. Pure fiction, good fun and a little history lesson about the Indy by a FELLOW FROM ACROSS THE POND!!! Victor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Ned Barnett" Subject: Lindbergh Pearl Harbor I just saw that set. Good LORD, those ships look more like some 1880s pre-dreadnought (except for the turrets) ... what a Large Laugh!!! Yes, they'd be great for a kid - young kid - to get started in. But for anybody past age-12, whew ... Revell has mixed-scale Pearl Harbor and Doolittle Raid kits that aren't half-bad ... but Lindbergh, heaven forefend! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Boatbldr" Subject: MiniCON - Calling all SMML folk! Calling all folks (and friends and acquaintances) who live in or near or will be passing through Vancouver, British Columbia on Sept 8th (so that means Seattle, the Islands, and anywhere else nearby)...we are hoping to have an SMML miniCON. Please let us know if you want to join us - we want to have an idea about numbers.... regards Boatbldr -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume