Subject: SMML VOL 1341 Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 00:16:47 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Island Class Cutters 2: Squadron Scalefest in Austin? 3: Corvette Flags 4: IJN Camouflage 5: 1/72 Flower re-visited 6: Re: US Coast Guard in DoT instead of DoD 7: Re: Coast Guard and the DOT... 8: Re: US Navy Patrol Frigates 9: Trumpeter 1/350 Arizona? 10: RN aircraft direction Type 62 frigate design of early 1950s 11: Re: German Flowers and Modelwerks 12: Re: USCG-Give 'em to a LE Agency 13: Re: US Navy Patrol Frigates 14: Re: Trailer on Enterprise -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New kit offer: 1/200 Sovremenny & 1/700 Arizona -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Donald Bridge Subject: Island Class Cutters Hi guys Recent talk about Coastguards etc. lead me to wonder if the guys at JAG could be persuaded to extend the coastie range to the Island class. Especially as the USCG were not the only users as the RN and UK Customs also used these and with the different fits to the USCG I think that makes 5 possible variants. (It's all a blind really I just want someone to produce UK Customs Cutters) Don Bridge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: jesse sublett Subject: Squadron Scalefest in Austin? Hi, I saw a reference to an August 25 show in Austin, Texas. Will someone please clue me in as to where this is going to be? I'm exiled here in Austin would like to go. Thanks, Jesse Sublett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Denis Keegan" Subject: Corvette Flags Those needing flags etc for the Flower Class Corvette can e mail Darren Scannell at hawkone@sympatico.ca Darren has the most beautiful set of 1/72 flags I have ever seen. I have NO association with his company. This is merely an expression of my appreciation of an Excellent product Denis K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Jim Davis Subject: IJN Camouflage Allan's site is really cool. If you haven't checked it out, you ought to. Now, a question. The box art on the 1/700 scale Mutsuki model shows the ship at anchor in a camouflage scheme. Was this just the artists' imagination, or were there IJN DD's that carried camo schemes during the war? Thanks! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Ron Hillsden" Subject: 1/72 Flower re-visited Ian, the kit is big enough that you can mask and paint the pennant numbers. On Shediac, I drew the gunshield art with a pencil and painted by hand. The pencil lines seemed to hold the paint on the correct side of the line. Of course, I used a 000 brush. Ron Hillsden Victoria BC Canada Club: http://members.home.net/vmss/ Flags: http://members.home.net/ron-hillsden/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: dlfowler@apple.com Subject: Re: US Coast Guard in DoT instead of DoD >> but just to keep matters confused, in time of war the U.S. Coast Guard moves from being under the Department of Transportation to being under the Department of the Navy! << How right you are, John, about the confused part! This is a commonly held myth about the US Coast Guard. In truth, the Coast Guard was transferred to the jurisdiction of the Navy in both W.W.I and W.W.II but it was by Executive Order of the president, not by any automatic action (6Apr1917 Wilson's Executive Order (can't find the number) and 1Nov1941 Roosevelt's Executive Order 8929). It took separate Executive Orders after the wars were over for the Coast Guard to regain its independence. (28Aug1919 Wilson's Executive Order 3160 and 1Jan1946 Truman's Executive Order 9666) It should be noted that while Wilson's Executive transferring the USCG to the Navy came on the same day that war was declared, Roosevelt's Executive Order doing the same came over a month before the attack on Pearl Harbor and the US declaration of war. In both wars, the USCG did not regain its independence until several months after the cessation of hostilities. Don't worry, John. I can forgive a gaff like that from a Navy guy. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: JohnVCP@aol.com Subject: Re: Coast Guard and the DOT... As we in the Coast Guard like to remind our Navy cousins - the U. S. Coast Guard is the small band of professionals that the U. S. Navy attaches itself to in time of war!!!! The length of time we do a given search and rescue mission is dictated by many things - water and air temperatures, whether or not the persons in the water are wearing PFD's (life jackets) or other survival clothing, length of time to when we arrive on-scene versus the time of the incident (which dictates the type of search patterns utilized); weather (visibility's), time of the day, number of assets (ships, boats, planes) available, etc. Once a search has begun, only the District Commander (an admiral) can call it off. We usually search well beyond the absolute time that experience tells us that hypothermia has claimed the lives of the victims. Too many people drown simply because they will not wear a life jacket. John Heasel USCGAUX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: US Navy Patrol Frigates Bob Santos writes: >> I've never even seen a model of a Patrol Frigate. has anyone??? << I would contact the Curator of Navy Ship Models: http://www.dt.navy.mil/cnsm/index.html They would know if the Navy holds title on a builder's model somewhere. Hope this helps, Kurt SeaPhoto Maritime Photography www.warshipphotos.com Now taking credit cards via Paypal! Warship Models Underway www.warshipmodelsunderway.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Robert Salmon" Subject: Trumpeter 1/350 Arizona? Hi Everyone, I just heard an interesting rumor that Trumpeter was marketing Banner's new 1/350 Arizona under their own name using different box art than Banner's. Has anyone else heard this? Thanks, Robert Salmon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Mike Potter Subject: RN aircraft direction Type 62 frigate design of early 1950s I am attempting to re-create the design for the RN's proposed aircraft direction Type 62 frigate of 1952. Norman Friedman, THE POSTWAR NAVAL REVOLUTION, gives the most detailed description of this design that I know of. It was intended as a conversion from 12 WW2 destroyers of the M class and S-Z classes. In 1952 the S-Z ('Emergency') ships were dropped; several became ASW Type 15 frigates instead. The Type 62 design evolved through two more phases for 5 M-class destroyers but was abandoned in 1954. Has anyone a source for scaled drawings of RN radars from the early 1950s? In particular I need drawings of radar types 262 (CRBF), 982, and 983. Regards, Mike Potter -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: John Maze Subject: Re: German Flowers and Modelwerks SMMLies, Back in May, Bob Pearson asked if anyone had any conversion info on the four Flowers operated by Germany. I did not see an answer - so now I'll ask: Does anyone have info on the differences between Allied Flowers and the four German ones? >> I just rec'd my...Newport LSt kit from Joe D'Amato (www.modelwerks.net) << I've been trying this URL of and on since the above was written in June and I can't seem to access this site. Anyone out there able to get in? Thanx! JohnM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Re: USCG-Give 'em to a LE Agency It shouldn't be a stretch to have the U.S. Coast Guard as part of a bona-fide law enforcement agency such as the Department Of Justice. USCG is the one organization that has far reaching duties under Posse Comatatus to stop, search and seize U.S. vessels (and the wherewithall to obtain fairly fast permission to do so with foreign vessels as well). That one small military organization can do so much with so little constantly amazes me. The USCG operates with minimal budgeting and often sends units that date from WWII on rescues (the USCGC Tamaroa, an ex-USN ATF fleet tug, rescued the Long Island ANG helo crew during 'The Perfect Storm' of 1990 for instance). Other front-line units are "rode hard and put away wet" after serving since the 1960s and '70s. Our local 41' UTBs often remain confined in port as the Rescue Coordination Center sends units to the Bellingham, Wa area on stormy winter rescues due to the age of our patrol boats. These are times when she may be needed most. Other agencies tasked with LE duties often have up-to-date equipment because they're not lumped in with Amtrak, road building and airports to compete for funding. the USCG is finally embarking on a cost-effective blue water fleet replacement programme to include modern cutters and aircraft that will finally be able to coordinate their efforts for effective commmand and communications. This should be a boon to USCG ship modelers looking for new subjects. BTW, I just got great shots of one of the new 87' patrol boats, the USCGC Osprey, from the deck of the USS John C. Stennis while underway earlier in the week. Standing there on-deck, waving at her as she passed caught the attention of the bridge crew and the patrol boat made a nice 360 degree turn as the motor drive on my Nikon shot her at 3.2 frames per second. I love this hobby!!! Victor Baca Model Ship Journal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: Re: US Navy Patrol Frigates Bob Santos mentioned that he was starting to scratch-build the USS NEW BEDFORD (PF-71), and asked for any references that may assist him in his completion of these very important vessels. The only reference material that I could possibly suggest that would further aid him in this venture would be "SELECTED PAPERS OF BRITISH WARSHIP DESIGN OF WORLD WAR II, From the Transactions of the Royal Institute of Naval Architects, available from Conway. What I did not know about these vessels, and that also included the Flower and Castle class corvettes and the River and Loch class frigates, was that they were all based on the whale-catcher "Southern Pride", designed by Smiths Dock Co., Ltd., South Bank, Middlesborough, England. In order to speed construction of these, about, 700 vessels, the same common British Triple Expansion Engine was specified as the power plant because of the availability of that number of engines, and the fact that there were a large number of British mariners and, fishing and hatchery workers who could operate this very simple and proven power plant. It was also accepted that these vessels would be built in smaller British commercial boat yards, using commercial fittings and scantlings, rather than from regular naval yards and military fittings. Though these vessels were of very different outward appearances to each other, they all were built to the same basic design and standards. The Maritime Administration was only responsible for adapting the British designs to meet the particular, and some times peculiarly, American method of ship building; e.g. "butt-welding" of steel plates rather than "lap-welding," but not the original design. The same comments also apply to most of the amphibious and assault craft that were produced in American yards during the war, examples being the ADMIRABLE class LSDs, LST, LCVP, LCP, LSI (L) and (S), LCM, LCT, LCS, LCF, LCG, and LCT, all British and not American designs. In Bob's comment about a model of a Patrol Frigate, there is a 1/96 scale semi-kit that is available. And, as the River class was designed from the same basic whale-catcher design as was the Flower class corvettes, one of these kits could be heavily drawn on as a basis to start with. Now, has anyone seen one of the Simar 1/48 scale "Flowers" actually built? I am seriously looking at doing a 1/72 scale "four-piper" when I found a company that is making a fiber-glass hull. And, what about a 1/32 scale WW-I 110' subchaser? There is a company that makes a hull for this thing too. Harold Stockton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: Re: Trailer on Enterprise Steve Singlar answered, to a point, my inquiry about the Radar or radio hut/trailer on the Enterprise in September 1944 that was forward of the most forward 40mm gun-tub on the main deck level. In the following photograph, of 20 March 1944, this hut/trailer was located where the SBD is shown parked. The Jeeps on the flightdeck are also worthy of note as is the small deck edge elevator that the three men are relaxing near. http://www.cv6.org/noumea/default.asp?uri=detail/barn-img-n209c&ref=March+1944 In "Big E" photograph of August 1944 in her new "dazzle" pattern scheme this particular item is not shown on board as of yet when she carried Air Group 20. http://www.cv6.org/noumea/default.asp?uri=detail/usni-img-z--3000009&ref=August+1944 http://www.cv6.org/noumea/default.asp?uri=detail/barr-img-2&ref=August+1944 http://www.cv6.org/noumea/default.asp?uri=detail/barr-img-385a&ref=August+1944 By 1945, this particular item was still not present as can be seen from this area of the flight deck can be seen to be where the flight deck tractors were normally parked. http://www.cv6.org/noumea/default.asp?uri=detail/awo-img-z--1000019&ref=1945+%28Year%29 When the "E" was hit by friendly fire in March 1945, this item is present in this area forward. http://www.cv6.org/noumea/default.asp?uri=detail/barn-img-n206&ref=March+1945 http://www.cv6.org/noumea/default.asp?uri=detail/barn-img-n203&ref=March+1945 When the "E" was damaged by a near miss from a Kamikaze on 11 April 1945, this photograph seems to not have this item present. http://www.cv6.org/noumea/default.asp?uri=detail/usni-img-z--3000011&ref=March+1945 This 14 May 1945 photograph does not seem to show this item either. But, is it because of the camera angle, the item was blown overboard by the Kamikaze hit, or that it was not present at that time? http://www.cv6.org/noumea/default.asp?uri=detail/barn-img-n206b&ref=May+1945 http://www.cv6.org/noumea/default.asp?uri=detail/barr-img-87-2&ref=May+1945 In this particular photograph, the extreme left side of the print, this item was located where the three men are relaxing on the deck. http://www.cv6.org/noumea/default.asp?uri=detail/barr-img-88&ref=May+1945 In this October 1945 photograph, the item is not present, but there is a new electronics' tower above the funnel. Was this where that piece of equipment located? This new platform is completely different than that which the SG-2 radar normally used. http://www.cv6.org/noumea/default.asp?uri=detail/barr-img-288&ref=October+1945 So, was there a special type of radio or radar equipment hut/trailer on the "E" during the March 1945 period? Yes, but what it was I still am without a clue. It definitely was NOT a simple maintenance trailer because of the size of the tripod antennae mounted on top of it. Could it have has its own power-generator that sounded like the "putt-putt" that Steve Singlar's friend remembers? Yes, but it was not a simple maintenance trailer. The aerials on this thing for all intents and purposes looks exactly the same as the Royal Navy's Type 291 radar array. Does this jog anyone's memory? According to NIGHT FIGHTERS OVER KOREA by G. G. O'Rourke, page 9, it is stated that Bill Martin returned to command Night Air Group 90 aboard the "E" in December 1944, with twenty-one TBM-3Ds and a mixed bag of thirty-four F6F-5Ns (AN/APS-6) and F6F-3Es (AN/APS-4). When the "Sara" was hit by four Kamikazes on 21 February 1945, she had a mixed group of night and day capable aircraft in her Air Group 53. In order to meet the growing threat of the dawn and dusk Kamikaze attacks, the "E" loaned out fourteen of its Night Air Group 90 pilots to some of the other supporting carriers for the Iwo Jima operations. The suppossed fire hazard of the "putput" maintenance trailer would have on board a carrier was strictly limited to the carrier's captain not wishing to respot his Air Group for doing night operations. This same situation was present during the Korean War when carrier captains did not want to interrupt the night's movie on the hanger deck so that much needed radar maintenance could be carried out on the fleet's F3Ds and F2Hs. Harold Stockton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: AAA Hobby Supply Subject: New kit offer: 1/200 Sovremenny & 1/700 Arizona Just got word of this kit: 1/200 Russian "Sovremenny" class type I destroyer. The kit is listed as Trumpeter and the SRP is $74.95. The release date is Sept. 2001. Same deal as the Arizona kit. 20% off until they get here. That makes the kit $60, with shipping it'll probably be no more than $68, but I have no idea of the weight or size of the kit. More on that when I get one. Also got notice of a Trumpeter 1/700 Arizona kit, same date for $7.95. The total for this kit will be $10.25 with USPS PM shipping. Sorry, but the small size makes the shipping $3.95 for the minimum weight plus delivery confirmation. James Corley Strong words and a bitter tone indicate a weak cause - Confucius Owner AAA Hobby Supply Nautilus Models Always offering 15% off all store stock to SMML and RMS subscribers http://www.aaahobby.com http://www.nautilusmodels.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume