Subject: SMML VOL 1360 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:49:49 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Modelcraft Shell Coastal Tanker 2: Re: CW book update 3: Questions on Japanese books 4: Re: La Argentina 5: RN ship appearance in 1950s /intro 6: Re: Ship scale question 7: Re: La Argentina 8: Peter the Great - modeller, not the ship! 9: Re: Graf Spee Badge 10: SMML across the UK 11: Museum ships to visit 12: Queen Liz class battleship differences 13: Re: Doyusha three monster? 14: Ship Identity 15: Oliver Hazzard & Hoga 16: Looking for (historical) naval miniatures game 17: Grossfleugzeugtrager 18: Re: Nieuw Amsterdam 19: USS C .Turner Joy 20: What about the wedding? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Model Contest in California - OrangeCon 2001 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Warship Books announcement -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Hi all, I know that we speak for everyone on SMML when we say that our most heartfelt sympathies go out to all who live or may have relatives in New York and Washington. We most sincerly hope that no-one on SMML has suffered any personal loss. Could any SMMLie living in and around these areas please chime in and tell us that you are OK? We would also encourage anyone who is able to donate blood to help the survivors to do so as a matter of urgency. I would also ask that any threads regarding today's events be kept off SMML as this is unfortunately not the forum for it. Shane & Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Skidmore, Jonathan" Subject: Modelcraft Shell Coastal Tanker Hello. I am about to begin the above model and have found that the paint instructions and box art to this kit is awful. Has anyone built this kit? I have done a lot of research on the Internet and have found virtually no information & pictures of coastal tankers and oil tankers. The two areas that I need painting assistance on, is the hull and the two decks. From my research I believe that some tankers have three colors on their hulls. Startng from top to bottom white, black and red. Is this correct? Or is just white and black? From looking at the box art it appears that the top deck is wood and the lower deck might be metal painted black? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Jon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: CW book update >> Classic Warships is just about one of the best sources for photos on the ships of the US Navy during WWII. My books have some of the best photo reproduction quality, most of the time better than many hard bound titles. << I would agree. Unfortunately, the printers have this strange idea about changing the photos around sometimes and they get pixelated. Seems that everybody has this problem, but when it happens in a REB (really expensive book) it totally gets me p.o.'d! 17th Ed. of Ships and Aircraft, page 562 is a perfect example. I doubt that Dr Polmar chose an out-of-focus photo to be inserted as the chapter lead at 4" x 8" Looks to me that the picture was originally sized at 2x4 so so and expanded to fill the space. Raven suffered the same problems, he said when the bluelines/galleys came back they were perfectly fine but the printed photos were terrible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: NEVENGER@aol.com Subject: Questions on Japanese books I have been looking at getting some books from a company out of Japan. Does anyone have any info on the books made by Gakken. I am also interested in the 4 books on German Surface Warship of WWII by Delta. I already know that all these books are in Japanese, but what I want is good pics or drawings. Rich -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: La Argentina This cruiser, designed as a training ship, was practically a repeat of the British Arethusa Class but mounting nine 6 in guns in three triple turrets as against six twins in the British ships and having a consequently larger displacement. The Argentine cruisers designed and built in Italy were Almirante Brown and Vienticinco de Mayo. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Mike Potter Subject: RN ship appearance in 1950s /intro To complete a drawing (elevation) of a British frigate design from the early 1950s, has anyone information about visible fittings that weren't gray? Were 4-inch gun breech assemblies painted red? If you have MS-Word, I can e-mail you this drawing for comments. At 1/554 scale the drawing doesn't depict tiny fittings. Here is my introduction, a bit overdue since I posted a few messages before: Name: Mike Potter Age: 51 Job: Electronics project manager, and USNR. Build 1/700 ship models occasionally; currently I make 2-D models (i.e., drawings). My main interest is the post-WW2 era. Ship knowledge from friends, USN experience, and books, one written by me about USN Spruance-class destroyers. Married, kids, dogs, cat, etc., in California USA. I learned of this friendly list from Dave Shirlaw and Frank Griak. Regards, Mike Potter -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Peter K. H. Mispelkamp Subject: Re: Ship scale question Hi: Just a quick update on the 1/400 scale ships. The USS Missouri (WWII) and USS New Jersey (Desert Storm) are available from either Kangnam (Korea) or Arii (Japan). I own Missouri's from both companies, and they are identical kits. I think that the only reason why Kangnam let Arii market them in Japan may be political/historical given Japan's role in Korea's history. There are also the four 1/400 scale Zara class cruisers currently marketed by Tauro. I own the very hard to find Modelcraft versions which date from the 1960's and they are very nice. They have their share of problems but they are buildable. Mirage from Poland has a few Polish WWII and post-war DD's and subs. They also market a few KM WWII subs (Types II & VII) and have announced a Wolfpack of Type IX's as well a slew of Polish DD's. Aga, MachPlast and Innex have also released some RN and Polish subs. Dolphin has a few resin WWII Italian subs, L'Aresenal (Sp?) has kits of both types of Flowers, and is currently working on the Bearn - a pre-WWII French CV in plastic with resein and PE parts. A company called TechModel(?) produces modern 1/400 scale Italian Warships in resin. A new company, LW from Russia(?) has released some modern Soviet subs in this scale, and has announced several other interesting subjects includng a HMS Audacity CVE. You can also find Soviet WWII era subs (Types D, L, S, Sch and M) from AER, NNT and Maquette. Japanese ships are much harder to find in this scale. The Yamatos (all three), Nagatos, Mogami's, at least one Tone, and members of the Atoga and Nati classes have been released in this scale. I suspect that Tamiya actually owns the molds for all of these Japanese CA's, but they are refusing to acknowledge or deny this fact. These cruisers have been released under the Paramount, Hobby and Tamiya-Mokei (sp?) lines. I really hope someone re-releases them soon! The Yamato and Musahi have been released by Nichimo, and all three have been released by UPC and Doyoshi (sp?) as well. The Nagato's were released by Otaki, but no one seems to know who owns the molds now. I agree that 1/350 seems to destined to be the big ship scale of the future, but it will be a long time before the ships available in this scale surpass the total number of ships released in 1/400. Sincerely Peter K. H. Mispelkamp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "graham and melanie" Subject: Re: La Argentina I think Steve was thinking of Veinticinco de Mayo when saying it was an Italian cruiser. it was of course british. it was losely an Arethusa class but bigger. Over a 1,000 tons bigger and 40ft longer. I can send you some basic line plans not brilliant but something to look at. best wishes graham @the cruiser sig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Chris Hughes" Subject: Peter the Great - modeller, not the ship! If anyone wants to see a superb model of a great ship, go to the SMML website and look at Peter Hall's "Peter the Great" under Members Models. Stunning. Now Peter, what's this about not producing a kit??? Chris Hughes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "John Barnum" Subject: Re: Graf Spee Badge I'm afraid that in my original queastion I was not clear enough,as I am going to build the Graf Spee as she was just before the the war. She was painted in two tone grey. German ships did remove badges, eg. Scharnhorst, Gneisenau and Hipper, but as you can see in photos of Graf Spee (German Capital Ships by M. J. Whitely , page 95 ) she had hers painted over. I'm still interested in any information as to the correct colours. Thanks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Lorna Subject: SMML across the UK The International Festival of the Sea has been AMAZING. I can't even remember all the ships that were there, but my overriding impression was that four days was just not long enough to see all the ships and look at all the dockside booths, not to mention enjoy any of the entertainment that was provided. Save your money and go to the next one, no matter how far you have to come ... it's worth it. Add to this the excitement of meeting fellow SMMLies and you have a recipie for a great time. We were fortunate to meet quite a lot of people both at the festival and at the SMML barbeque. The overseas contingent was quite strong with Duane Fowler, John Rule, John Sutherland, Harold Lincoln, (we can no longer count John Snyder in this category of course as he's now married Caroline, a local girl), with the following "locals" Peter Hall and his wife Julie, Chris Drage and his son Aaron, Dave Carter, John Lambert, Chris Langtree, Andy Jones and his wife Vanessa, Phil Gollin, Les Brown and wife Susan, John Currie, Mike and Lynn Dunn, Robert Lockie, Edward Brown - apologies to anyone we may have missed listing. We also met up Chris Hughes who took us to Duxford and showed us around. Footsore, exhausted, awestruck and having a great time, Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "larsenal" Subject: Museum ships to visit Hello, One of my friends is about to visit the US West coast. He would like to know some addresses of preserved military ships to visit around the San Francisco and Los Angeles areas. Can you please give some suggestions? Thank you in advance! Best regards, Jacques Druel L'Arsenal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Mark Brown" Subject: Queen Liz class battleship differences Hello, I have not posted to the list before. My main interest is in computer modelling of warships rather than scale modelling. The research required to do 3D computer models is similar to that needed for scale modelling so I thought this list would be a good place to get expert advice. I currently need to do a Queen Elizabeth class battleship for use in "Combat Flight Simulator 2". I need to do the QE as it was following the last refit. I am a bit confused about the refit to the various vessels in the class. Am I right in thinking that the "Warspite" hull still retained the sculptured sides to the hull (where the secondaries are.....is there a proper name for that?)? All the other ships of the class look like they have had the hull modified so that the deck is not sculptured and look like the secondaries have been removed. Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks, Mark Brown http://www.3dng.com/warships_in_3d.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Erhardtsen" Subject: Re: Doyusha three monster? >> Does anyone know what the level of detail is in Doyusha three monster size Yamato class model are, and are the worth the price including the Shinano? << Doyusha makes the ships in 1/250 and the model is not as detaild as the old Yamato from Tamiya in scala 1/700 Erik Erhardtsen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John Rule" Subject: Ship Identity When I was at FOTS, there was a mothballed Type 22 frigate anchored out in the distance offshore. Can anyone tell me what it was? Thanks John Hi John, There are three Type 22s mothballed out there - do you mean the closest one to the dockyard?? Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: Oliver Hazzard & Hoga Yes the FFG is still a modern ship, but from what i have heard & figured is that if the ship doesnt have VLS systems its no good & i think also that their ships are approaching their next SLEEP mode to keep them going for another 15 - 20 years, so why not sell them to the Arabs & the Taiwanese (love these ships) & as for the US navy from what i heard in the rumour mills is that to them the day of the frigate is gone & the destroyers are their main workhorses hence the upgraded versions of the Arleigh Burkes coming out & the D-21 class destroyers (even though it seems that the US Govt may put a hold on the D-21 & keep the Burkes going longer & longer till something else comes along). Getting back to the FFG's the RAN FFgs are approaching their life upgrades soon, as the oldest one is nearly 20 or years old & one of the drawings that was in the tender was to replace the old launching rail on the bow & extend the ship 15ft or so & install a VLS system, I have not heard is this is to be done, but the report stated that if this is done the life of the ships would be extend by many years, but the way our government & many others dilly dally with projects I wouldnt be holding my breath for re-vamped FFG to shows its grace & speed on the open waters just yet. Also i have the"Corsair Armada" Hoga (not sure if you could put the USS part in front), but what i need from the brains out there & the extensive libraries..im sure someone must know something. A) the colour scheme, it says dark grey..but i have seen paintings & old colour pic's that it appears to be light grey almost a green tinged??? Any hints on what Humbrol or revell colour would be good enough..also it appears there might be 2 colours 1 for the hull & 1 for the cabin..also the deck..what colour deck dark grey perhaps? B) being 1/700 scale this doesnt leave much room, but did tugs in that day just have their numbers or did they have their classification code & numbers painted on the bow? Seems to be a big trouble these days, 3 different books I have seen in the library & book shops all give me different colours, like 1 book i say said the Arizona was in light grey when she was sunk. So for any information provided I thank you in advance & any sneezes from the dust off the book, bless you -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Dan Bostwick" Subject: Looking for (historical) naval miniatures game This is a bit off topic, but I have been looking for a naval miniatures game, and this seems like a crowd that might have played a few. Just for clarity, I'll point out that I am not talking about a computer game here, but a tabletop miniatures system. I think I am interested in a WWI era game, although I am not positive. It just seems like an era that would adapt well to a game (largely due to there being far fewer of those pesky airplanes, and anti-ship missiles!). WWII is also a possibility. The age of sail is fascinating, but the time investment that would be required for the miniatures is a bit of a turn off. I have seen several titles available, but never very much information about any particular title. I believe I am leaning toward "Fear God And Dread Nought" by Clash Of Arms, or the Fletcher Pratt system. Has anyone ever played either of these titles? Does anyone have any information or experience with anything in this genre? Feel free to contact me off-list if you think it would be more appropriate. Thanks. Dan Bostwick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Alex Subject: Grossfleugzeugtrager Hi SMMLiers, I need info regarding German wartime proposed designs of Grossfleugzeugtrager a-i, a-ii, a-iii, that were mentioned in positions 2G094, 2G095, 2G932, 2G942 and 2G955 referred from: http://www.regalminiatures.com/FH-WWII.htm I believe all these should be in MJ Whitley's "German Capital Ships of WWII" and in "Marine Rundchau" by Hadeler. I can not obtain these books, so i ask for help. Attached scans would be very appreciated. Thanks forward :) Alex -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Nieuw Amsterdam Donald Morgan is asking about books dealing with liners that give profile and deck views suitable for model work. Apart from John Bowen's excellent book there is nothing I know of that's current other than John Bowen's quarterly article in Model Shipwright. John had written an earlier book called "Waterline Ship Models" (Conway Maritime Press 1972). If you search the second-hand market you might be lucky enough to find "Waterline Ship Models" by Talbot-Booth published about 1935/36, or "Ships of the North Atlantic" by Horton White of the same vintage. They contain plans but are in no way of the standard found in the Bowen books. The magazine "Model Boats" in the UK used to carry drawings by the late Reg Carpenter which were of a similar standard to Bowen. These ran from the mid-sixties to at least the late seventies. If Donald cares to contact me off list I may be able to help with specific ships as I have numerous plans of liners and cargo ships from various sources, all at 1:1200 scale. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Stuart Batchelor" Subject: USS C .Turner Joy I am going to be in the great northwest (US) around the Thanksgiving holidays. My tour guide (mother) said she thought that she had read somewhere that the USS C. Turner Joy (I think that's the name, please forgive me if I'm wrong, I'll go and work on a model as penance) has been dry-docked for maintenance. Anybody know if this is true/status of tours is? If it is, does anyone have any ideas on alternatives to go and do the tourist thing on the Oregon, Washington and or Canadian coasts? TIA Stuart Batchelor Tulsa, Oklahoma -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Doug Wilde" Subject: What about the wedding? I was thinking about Caroline and John's wedding, considering how an announcement in SMML might different from one's hometown paper... The bride's colours were Measure 33, with a light wash of PolyScale Burnt Umber. Her bouquet of Baby's Breath was accented by delicate frets of 1/350th-scale railing and radar. The Flower Girls carried similar arrangements, but in 1/700th (of course). The Groom wore a complimentary Measure 22.... What I haven't been able to find are the wedding vows. Does anyone have a copy they'd like to share? Doug Wilde -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Richa5011@aol.com Subject: Model Contest in California - OrangeCon 2001 OrangeCon 2001 is now only a little over a month away. When: Sunday October 14th, 2001 Where: Sequoia Conference Center, 7530 Orangethorpe Ave, Buena Park, CA. Schedule: Registration 9:00am to 11:30am Contest Judging noon to 1:30pm Awards presentation begins at 3:30. 38 Contest Categories "Best of" Awards Vendors Guest Speakers OrangeCon is Southern Californias largest model contest and is hosted each year by the Orange County Chapter of IPMS. I hope that many of my fellow SMMLies can arrange to join us on the 14th. For additional information, please contact me at: richa5011@aol.com Nat Richards IPMS Orange County -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Warship Books announcement Hi all, Two new books from Poland From AJ press Bismarck Part I Canada $27Cdn USA $18US BS Publishing Soviet Submarines Canada $27Cdn USA $18US Please visit the site for complete details and shipping information. Remember: You can sell your used books or extra kits on the site at no cost or obligation, just email me with your ad. Regards Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume