Subject: SMML VOL 1361 Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 06:46:01 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Type 22 2: Re: Queen Liz class battleship differences 3: Arizona questions 4: Re: Ship Identity 5: Re: any news on ICM ships 6: Re: Questions on Japanese books 7: West Coast Ships 8: Re: Charles F Adams 9: Re: Blame The Printer 10: Re: Queen Liz class battleship differences 11: Re: Hoga 12: USS Turner Joy 13: Re: Questions on Japanese books 14: ships to visit in SF 15: Hoga 16: Re: USS C .Turner Joy 17: Mobile 18: Konishi kits 19: Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Battleship Differences 20: Re: Looking for (historical) naval miniatures game 21: Museums to visit, OHPs, WTC (short) 22: USN WW II greens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: NRG 2001 Conference Status -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: any news on ICM ships 2: Crisis Chat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Hi all, Here's the first replies to the rollcall of SMMLies on the East Coast of the USA I asked for in the last SMML saying that they're "fine": Felix Bustelo Jeff Hearne Harold Lincoln Devin Poole Marc Raiff David Wells Joe Poutre Vince McCullough Masashi Ito If you can add to the list please do so. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "John Rule" Subject: Type 22 >> There are three Type 22s mothballed out there - do you mean the closest one to the dockyard?? << YES. You could see it from FOTS if you looked out to sea through the harbour entrance. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Alex Subject: Re: Queen Liz class battleship differences Mark, I see your problem. Yesterday, just before disaster happened, i have seen your screenshots of QE designs. Why did not you draw underwater part for hull? Are there any polygon number limits? A mounth ago i have modelled QE class with several variations regarding refits. Check next attachment for line drawings i used for Queen Elizabeth and Warspite. Barham and Malaya and Valiant are available too, and i can send them to you as well. Alex -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Susan Cowardin" Subject: Arizona questions I have two questions concerning the Arizona at Pearl Harbor, where can I find close up photos or drawings of the "mooring islands" (for lack of a better word) and what color were the canvas tarps that shielded her bow and stern from the sun. On the same subject was there some sort of tarp protection midships? Thanks, Steve Cowardin God Bless America on these dark days. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "M & R Brown" Subject: Re: Ship Identity re the mothballed Type 22, the one sitting out clearly visible is Brave. Michael Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Re: any news on ICM ships NEVENGER asked >> I was wondering if there was any new info on when the ICM Hood or Japanese cruisers will be out??? << ON SteelNavy, John Sheridan reported on the Chicago Hobby Show (open to trade only) that ICM was increasing the number of sprues for the HOOD from 8 to 12. This was going to cause the release date to slip until March 2002. [... thats another 4 months late] Work has begun on the ESSEX.. The TAKAO and CHOKAI are still on the product list - with no release date. I asked John if the 50% increase in the number of sprues would result in an increase in the retail price. John didn't ask that question. I would be concerned that the $129 USD retail price might be in jeopardy. If the ESSEX is ever released - I would not expect it in less than a year. Ed Mansfield, TX USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Gernot Hassenpflug Subject: Re: Questions on Japanese books Rich (NEVENGER@aol.com) wrote: >> any info on the books made by Gakken. I am also interested in the 4 books on German Surface Warship of WWII by Delta. what I want is good pics or drawings. << The Gakken series on ships are without exception great photographic references for the modeler, using as a basis large-scale (1:100 to 1:200) models of the subjects. Price ranges about 1600-2000yen depending on the issue. Sorry, no info on the Delta series. Gernot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: tom Subject: West Coast Ships >> One of my friends is about to visit the US West coast. He would like to know some addresses of preserved military ships to visit around the San Francisco and Los Angeles areas. Can you please give some suggestions? << Jacques: Here is a list of URLs for San Francisco Bay ships. The Pampanito, Maritime Museum/Park and O'Brien are all within easy walking distance along the San Francisco waterfront. Also San Francisco Fleet Week is Oct 6-7. For the aircraft carrier USS Hornet... www.uss-hornet.org For the submarine Pampanito and the San Francisco Maritime Historical Museum and ships... http://www.maritime.org/index.htm For the Victory ship Red Oak Victory... http://www.redoakvictory.org/ And for the Liberty ship Jeremiah O'Brien http://www.ssjeremiahobrien.org/ Tom K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: annobon4@aol.com Subject: Re: Charles F Adams Hi Guys Concerning my remarks that the USS Charles Adams DDG-2 won't be made into museum comes from Sea Classics Magazine April 2001 page36 and I quote "The group trying to obtain the USS Charles F. Adams DDG-2 for Bay City MI is not making desired headway. The U.S. Navy may reopen the competition for Charles F.Adams" unquote. That's where it came from. As far as USS New Jersey goes .The opening day for the museum has been delayed for 2 reasons .1. The tug and barge carring the 4 110 ft long I-Beams for mooring the ship was round aground by a hurricane in July and 2. The museum didn't get permits for the museum and pier construction. They cost about $300,000 and a court order was issued to suspend construction until their paided. No one is sure of the opening date. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Re: Blame The Printer >> I would agree. Unfortunately, the printers have this strange idea about changing the photos around sometimes and they get pixelated. Seems that everybody has this problem, but when it happens in a REB (really expensive book) it totally gets me p.o.'d! << There is no reason to accept a poor print job. If a photograph is sized to fit at the printing stage, it is the customer who initiates this action. Any printer who changes a job without the customer's authorization, especially something as huge as changing a layout picture's sizing to fit a frame is likely to lose money when the job is not accepted. No professional printer would ever make a unilateral change in a layout. Pixelated photos, for instance, are really a problem initiated by the layout artist where an image is scanned at a small size and later sized up in the layout to fit. Far better to use proper scanning and resolution parameters and place the blame where it belongs: with the customer who signs off on the finished job. The only thing the printing customer can do is to pay close attention to the job at hand and work closely with the printer while questioning everything at each step of the way. We are doing a "press check" on the latest issue of our magazine today. At this stage we have signed off on every little change and correction. If any errors creep in, it's my fault as the customer for allowing it. The printer is only responsible for doing the finished job according to the customer's specs. Just wanted to set the record straight as to who's really responsible for sub-standard work when we pay good money for lousy photo reproduction in our ship related references. To blame the printer for a sub-standard job is like blaming Testors or Pactra because you didn't do a good job and pay attention to detail in painting your model. Victor Baca Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Mitsuaki Kubota Subject: Re: Queen Liz class battleship differences Hi Mark, All of QE class battleships had twelve 6" guns in casemates of broadside (six guns per side) before modernization. These guns are positioned at upper deck level, abreast of B turret to funnel. Also these were casemates for four 6" guns at main deck level, abreast of Y turret. Only QE had 6" guns at this position when she was completed, but removed because these guns were too much closed to waterline. The portholes are patched. But casemates themselves were remained and hull was still sculptured here. Malaya and Barham remained these secondary armaments as before of modernization. The aft casemates abreast of Y turret were remained and hull was still sculptured. (Later Malaya removed all 6" guns, circa 1944, but casemates still remained.) Warspite remained eight 6" guns. The foremost pairs and after end pairs were removed. Fo'c'sle deck were widened around the area previously foremost pairs were positioned. Hull plate were extended to fo'c'sle deck level around the area previously aft end pairs positioned. Also hull plates were extended to upper deck level, aft casemates abreast of Y turret were entirely plated over. In QE and Valiant, all 6" guns were removed and replaced by ten twin 4.5" guns. Sculptured areas of hull were entirely plated over. Six turrets were positioned abreast of bridge structure, at fo'c'sle deck level. (Three turrets per side.) Four turrets abreast of aft control towers, at main deck level. (Four turrets per side.) Hope this help. Best regards, Mitsuaki Kubota http://www.hig.tocolo.or.jp/hmdock/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Re: Hoga >> Also i have the"Corsair Armada" Hoga (not sure if you could put the USS part in front) << If any ship deserves to have USS in front of her name it's the USS HOGA (YTB-146). The YTB/YTM class tugs are named U.S. Naval ships and also are assigned a hull number. The small harbor tugs deserve a larger place in our collective naval consciousness that they now do. USS HOGA was there at Pearl and assisted ships in distress while firing on incoming Japanese aircraft. Long may she live. Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Kdg345@aol.com Subject: USS Turner Joy The USS Turner Joy is now in a drydock in Lake Union in Seattle. It can be seen from the I-5 freeway just north of downtown. I saw it there last Saturday, but don't know how long it will be there. Ken Groom, Kent, WA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Questions on Japanese books >> I have been looking at getting some books from a company out of Japan. Does anyone have any info on the books made by Gakken. I am also interested in the 4 books on German Surface Warship of WWII by Delta. I already know that all these books are in Japanese, but what I want is good pics or drawings. << Rich, They are all great books, money well spent. I have purchased all of these. I highly recommend them. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: ships to visit in SF Thre are 3 ships in the S.F area, i have been to 2, a WW2 sub & the O'brian ( A liberty class transport..they used the engine room that you can go down & see in the movie TITANIC) both are worth the visit, especially the sub (i cant remember the name) as you can get up right inside the coning tower (sail), so make sure you don't have a back pack as i did & i found it very difficult to try to climb the ladder & hang on the bag..with all the subs around the U.S this was the only one that you could climb up into the sail!..The other ship is the USS Hornet a 50's/60's carrier, i think it is big state of disrepair & I didnt manage to see it as it is not located right in SF it is alamoeda (?) The sub & O'brian is located down on the left side of the "harbour" so from left to right, you have the o'brian, the nautical museum, fisherman's warf & the pier 39.. the are all in easy walk of each other ..the sub & the o'brian have its own web site..so best check with the o'brian as it does go away for weeks at a time for trips or repairs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Mike C" Subject: Hoga Here's a site for info on HOGA. I found it after I finished the kit (naturally), but I think the kit turned out pretty well, considering... http://www20.brinkster.com/tughoga Mike CAP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Roger/Sharon Torgeson" Subject: Re: USS C .Turner Joy >> I am going to be in the great northwest (US) around the Thanksgiving holidays. My tour guide (mother) said she thought that she had read somewhere that the USS C. Turner Joy (I think that's the name, please forgive me if I'm wrong, I'll go and work on a model as penance) has been dry-docked for maintenance. Anybody know if this is true/status of tours is? << Stuart, I am afraid it' true, On my way to the SMML MINIcon in Vancouver British Columbia I saw it in drydock in Seattle. I need to get out more as I live in Bremerton and hadn't noticed it was gone Roger Torgeson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "George J. Stein" Subject: Mobile OK, a bunch of listmembers chimed in with suggestions for the trip to Mobile. Well, what did you do & see? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: andy vu Subject: Konishi kits Dear SMML fellows: Can Alan Mcgivern or anyone tell me where we can buy those beautiful Konishi kits? I thank you very much! Andy Vu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "David Griffith" Subject: Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Battleship Differences >> I currently need to do a Queen Elizabeth class battleship for use in "Combat Flight Simulator 2". I need to do the QE as it was following the last refit. I am a bit confused about the refit to the various vessels in the class. Am I right in thinking that the "Warspite" hull still retained the sculptured sides to the hull (where the secondaries are.....is there a proper name for that?)? All the other ships of the class look like they have had the hull modified so that the deck is not sculptured and look like the secondaries have been removed. << Dear Mark, You are right in thinking that the Queen Elizabeth (and Valiant also) had their original secondary armament completely removed and the sides plated over to follow the natural shape of the hull. The original 6" guns were replaced by 20 X 4.5" DP guns in twin mountings, three mountings a side at forecastle deck level abreast the forward superstructure, and two abaft the beam at quarterdeck level. The other ships retained all or most of the original secondary armament, Warspite giving up the fore and aftermost of the embrasured guns. If you would like to contact me off list giving your ordinary postal address, I can send you some photocopies of the appropriate chapter of Oscar Parkes "British Battleships", which gives much fuller details of the rebuilds of all the ships in the class as well as some very useful drawings and photies. I'm sure you'll find it useful. Regards, David -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: PT Dockyard Subject: Re: Looking for (historical) naval miniatures game The best that I have found are "General Quarters". Volume 1 is WW2, Volume 2 is WW1. They are avaulable from Navwar in the UK and are not very expensive. What scale are you planning to use? I have a set of free WW2 coastal miniatures rules on my website at http://ptdockyard.homestead.com Dave @ The P.T. Dockyard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Museums to visit, OHPs, WTC (short) >> One of my friends is about to visit the US West coast. He would like to know some addresses of preserved military ships to visit around the San Francisco and Los Angeles areas. Can you please give some suggestions? << Jacques, et al, I maintain three lists online, one of US naval and maritime museums, one of such museums outside the US, and an international list of aviation museums. Each list is organized by country, then state/province/region, then city. Point your friend here: http://www.bb62museum.org/usnavmus.html http://www.bb62museum.org/wrldnmus.html http://www.bb62museum.org/airmus.htm As for the OHPs, the Aussies have an upgrade plan for theirs, the most notable part of which is adding a short-depth VLS launcher forward of the SM-1/Harpoon launcher, allowing them to fire ESSM. And the Taiwanese have managed to add 8 Harpoon tubes to their version of the OHP, so that the forward launcher can be dedicated to the SM-1, so the ship doesn't have to dump a weapon over the side if the combat situation suddenly changes. I personally do see a requirement for an "ocean escort", a light destroyer, less capable than the Arleigh Burkes and DD-21, as an escort for the amphib groups, an adjunct carrier escort, an overseas USN presence, and to add numbers to the surface fleet. Not "Streetfighter", not FF-90, something on par with the Halifax or the Type 23. I got a front row seat for Tuesday's events. My building is just across the Hudson from the World Trade Center, and I pray to God you never have to see anything like that. That's all I'm going to say. Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: ZMzimmerman@cs.com Subject: USN WW II greens Does any have any matches or mixes for the USN WW II greens, especially Ocean Green 5 OG, Navy Green 5 NG, and Deck Green 20 G. Thank you, Michael Zimmerman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Vincent Mccullough" Subject: NRG 2001 Conference Status I have received several inquiries in the past 24 hours with regard to the status of the upcoming conference in light of yesterday's tragic events, and wanted to provide an update to all of you that I can reach via email. While most of the monuments here in the Washington metro area are closed, we believe that this is a very temporary response to yesterday's ongoing security threat, and we expect that this situation will change over the next few days. Enhanced security procedures may, I repeat, MAY impact two of the planned events: the tour of the Navy's David Taylor Model Basin and the White House tour. While we hope that this does not come to pass, we will be monitoring the situation closely and, will plan a suitable contingency tour that will satisfy both modelers and their guests. Like all airports across the United States, Washington's three airports, Dulles International, Reagan National, and Baltimore Washington International, are all closed at this time. Restarting the air traffic control system after this unprecedented outage is likely to take several days and involve delays caused both by enhanced security and aircraft positioning problems. However, barring further threats, this should be accomplished in plenty of time for the conference. Therefore, as of this time, we are expecting to GO FORWARD WITH THE CONFERENCE AS PLANNED. The Conference committee here and in Annapolis will be monitoring the situation over the coming week and will re-evaluate the situation late this weekend or early next week, and apprise you of any changes. However, we continue to look forward to a great conference, and to seeing all of you here in the Nations Capitol. Vince McCullough NRG 2001 Conference Co-Chair -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: any news on ICM ships As for the ICM kits, nothing new was announced at RCHTA. The HOOD has been delayed until at least Feb. 2002, maybe later. The ESSEX is behind it with no new date. No mention of the IJN stuff. We just got the new Squadron Signal Heavy Cruisers in Action #2. SRP is $9.95, AAA has them at $8.50 + $1 for first class. James Corley AAA Hobby Supply email: aaahobby@earthlink.net AAA Hobby offers a standard 15% discount to all SMML subscribers on all items we stock. Shipping via USPS Priority Mail or Int'l Air Mail -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: D Wakefield Subject: Crisis Chat Take this for what it's worth...I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here. I set up a temporary list for those who might want to discuss the recent crisis here in the US. It's an open, public list, so anyone can post, but it's not going to be listed in the directory at YahooGroups. Those who want to post do not have to subscribe. Those who want to get it via email though will need to do so. Other wise you can post and read the messages at the website. Note I said temporary...meaning I'll shut it down eventually (once everyone has had their say on the matter and traffic ceases to exist). I belong to a number of modeling lists, on a few of which discussion of the recent events have been declared off topic. So I thought a single dedicated list for such discussions might be nice to have. I'm not trying to steal members here. This is for discussion of current events involving the recent terrorist attack on the US. The name of the list - TMOCC "Temporary Modelers on Crisis Chat" - says it all. The URL for the list is... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TMOCC To sub via email, send a message to... tmocc-subscribe@yahoogroups.com I'm not going to play active moderator for this list, as I work for a government relief agency and am working long hours these days. So I'm involking the honor system among those who want to use the list to talk/chat about this matter. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume