Subject: SMML VOL 1373 Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 12:04:46 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Oklahoma in Ms. 5 2: Re: Iowa Class helipad markings, Big J museum 3: USS Oklahoma MS 1 or MS 5? 4: Re: Oklahoma in Ms. 5 5: Bismarck Colours- Some Observations and a Good Source 6: Model Shops Hong Kong 7: Re: ABC TV visits the Australian Battle Group 8: Oklahoma was in MS-1/MS-5 9: Re: Revell Elco and ACF Vol 3 10: WEM Colourcoats paints are arriving to customers 11: Re: ABC TV visits the Asutralian Battle Group -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Re: IPMS Virginia Beach 2: Re: IPMS Virginia Beach 3: Club Announcement: Asutralian Battle Groups' first battle in Sydney -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: IHP Website 2: Friedrick Kappes enquiries -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Jon Warneke Subject: Re: Oklahoma in Ms. 5 Hi Yohan, >> I was wondering if anyone knew if there was a chance that the Oklahoma was in MS 5 (with the false bow wave) like the Nevada on Dec. 7, 1941? She's listed as being in MS 1 according to the Ship Camouflage page, but all the photos I've seen during/after the attack don't really seem to show whether or not it might have been MS 5 (mostly because they were taken after the ship capsized). << There is a photo of the Nevada and Oklahoma taken on 3 NOV 41 that shows both of them in Ms. 5. It is picture #2-20, page 14, "The Way it Was:Pearl Harbor" by Goldstein and Dillon. The photo itself is of the two ships, Oklahoma forward, moored at Ford Island. It also looks as if Oklahoma may have had a CXAM set installed on the foremast, but it also could be a blemish on the print. Now, this was taken a month prior to the attack, but since the Nevada still was wearing Ms. 5 during the attack, it would be a fair assumption that Oklahoma also kept her Ms. 5. Jon Warneke Commander Series Models, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Re: Iowa Class helipad markings, Big J museum Also, you need to know that NJ's helipad area was extended up past her after turret, whereas her three sisters kept their wood decks all the way back to the helipad. Good photos or quality plans of the Big J will show where her wood deck was replaced. As for the ship herself, it should be known that the board members of the Home Port Alliance managed to be aboard her when she was moved, despite the security restrictions, while the many volunteers and veterans who were _promised_ they could ride were left out. They've lost more of them with this latest screwup. On the plus side, the Battleship New Jersey Historical Museum Society, the group that originated the effort to bring her home, has signed a contract with the HPA, and now has display space aboard. All memorabilia and other items in that area will be under the control of the Society, and will be noted as such. Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: AAA Hobby Subject: USS Oklahoma MS 1 or MS 5? According to a photo dated 03NOV41, Oklahoma and Nevada are both shown moored at the north end of Ford Island (OK is at AZ berth) and both ships display the Ms 5 false bow wave. It is possible that the measure was removed by 07DEC41, but doubtful. (Photo #2-20, pg 14, The Way It Was, Pearl Harbor, The Original Photographs, by Donald Goldstein, Katherine Dillon and Michael Wenger, 1991, Brasseys, London, ISBN0-02-881120-8) I have yet to find this pic online. Also consider the photo at: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h64000/h64497.jpg A view taken in Dec43. The bow of the ship is to the left and there is what appears, to me at least, to be the remnants oft he Ms 5 paint under the bow near the waterline. I am amazed by the level of detail seen in this photo, after she was righted, and the amount of damage NOT inflicted by the bottom of the harbor; the kingpost & a/c cranes are intact, etc. here is the link for the main page of the online library, an excellent resource that is updated biweekly. http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org11-2.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Chris Preston" Subject: Re: Oklahoma in Ms. 5 Hi Everyone, Regarding Yohan's question on whether or not the OKLAHOMA was painted in Ms.1 with the Ms. 5 bow-wave (like NEVADA) in Dec. 1941, there is a photo on P.14 of " The Way It Was - PEARL HARBOR, The Original Photographs", by Donald M. Goldstein, and Katherine V. Dillon, ISBN 0-08-040573-8. This photo shows both the OKLAHOMA and NEVADA tied up alongside mooring quays at Ford Island. on 03 NOV 41. Both ships are painted in Ms.1 with Ms.5. Hope this helps. If you'd like a scan of the photo, let me know. Cheers, Chris Preston, Victoria, B.C. Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Frank Allen Subject: Bismarck Colours- Some Observations and a Good Source Hi Roger, Though I cannot personally 100% verify Bismarck's final colours (I can verify Hood's though!), I do know of a good source for the information- the "Battleship Bismarck" website at: http://idd007xs.eresmas.net/bismarck.html If you cannot find the information within the site's pages, you can always ask the question on their forum. Many Bismarck experts "hang out" there and I am sure they can answer your questions. I can add a bit about the ship's paint job though: The war diary of Bismarck (and that of Prinz Eugen...both of which are available through the website I mentioned) specifically mentions that all camouflage was painted over with "outboard grey" whatever that is. They also specifically mention the turrets and "national markings." That means, they definitely covered or painted over the nasty swastikas. Indeed, the photos of Prinz Eugen taken during the break-out DEFINITELY show that her bow swastika at least, was covered. Hard to tell if it was paint or an extremely taught tarpaulin. As for shades of the greys involved, I cannot say for sure...I believe they were using some RAL 7000 series shades (1, maybe 2). Of course, from reviewing the photos of the ship then and now, they may have used the old "two tone" grey scheme common to early war vessels (medium grey hull, light grey from the deck up). Of course, old photos are not always reliable (due to film stock/reflectivity/colour absorption) and the wreck may have had it's top coat worn off by now. Regarding the camouflage, there are at least two May 1941 photos which show Bismarck with only the bow wave. Turret tops are another situation altogether...some claim they were light grey, some say weinrot, some dark grey and others even say yellow (not overly reliable source for the last one). From personal experience, I know that at least two survivors said the turrets were all the same shade of grey... One last thing about the photos- if modelling Bismarck a few days into Rheinübung, remember that there was some "erosion" of the paint...the black "Baltic" stripes appeared to be bleeding through a bit. Is this the Tamiya model? If so, please remember that nearly all decks (save the decks immediately around and forward of the funnel) were planked wood. In other places, grating was used. The Tamiya kit has way too much "smooth space." Hope this helps! Frank Allen H.M.S. Hood Association website staff; http://hmshood.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: Model Shops Hong Kong Hi you all... Yee gods it's me again.. another question.. can/does/could anyone know of decent (or even indecent) hobby shops in Hong Kong? Selling ship and aircraft models?????? Cheers Simon Wolff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SolidStump@aol.com Subject: Re: ABC TV visits the Australian Battle Group >> What kind of projectiles do they fire, and how do they reload, how are the guns aimed?? << A quick internet search should get you to some model warship battle groups. They use BB's. They get close and blast away. They use special kits from Rocky Mountain shipyard.(?) the kits allow you to make the sides of the ship perforable but easy to repair. Go to the website. It answers all your questions. Simon Scheuer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Lump518176@aol.com Subject: Oklahoma was in MS-1/MS-5 There are photos taken in the months preceding the Dec 1941 attack that show Oklahoma in this scheme. There are a few in the book "The Way It Was: Pearl Harbor" as late as Nov 1941 showing Oklahoma in MS-1/MS-5. Jerry Phillips -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: PT191@aol.com Subject: Re: Revell Elco and ACF Vol 3 There are no white metal .50s in that scale, if there were, I would've used them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: AJOWENS@aol.com Subject: WEM Colourcoats paints are arriving to customers Hello all, Just got my first set of the WEM paints yesterday (in Boston, MA USA) - I ordered basically one of everything so there'll probably another batch on the way later. But first glance at a couple of test spots looks very good! I had been using the Polly Scale and Model Shipways brands for the most part lately but never really loved acrylics over enamels. I plan to try them out over the weekend with brush and airbrush on a DML 1/700 Oakland and will let you know the results. All the Best, A.J. Owens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Richard Simpson Subject: Re: ABC TV visits the Asutralian Battle Group >> What kind of projectiles do they fire, and how do they reload, how are the guns aimed?? << Walt, the full rules for the AsuBG are on the website at www.ausbg.org but in a nutshell The projectiles are 1/4" steel ball bearings for guns of 15" or better, 7/32nd steel ball bearings for guns of 11" up to 15" and 3/16th steel ball bearings for guns smaller than that. Only guns capable of being used in surface actions (LA or combined) are allowed. The projectiles are fired at up to 50m/s (about 180 km/h or the speed of a fast bowler) by CO2 stepped down to about 130 psi from the liquid CO2 pressure of 800 psi (it is carried as a liquid onboard the vessels) A turret can fire about 1 round per 6 seconds as it takes time for the turret CO2 accumulator to recharge. Turrets are rotated via a sail winch and depressed via a servo mounted on the magazine cover which pulls the barrels down. Elevation is not allowed for safety reasons Aiming is by eye from the shore and thus is quite difficult as both the shooter and the target are likely moving and the vessels are rolling and pitching. It is rare for serious damage to be done without The ball bearing supply sits in a tray above the breach, the rolling motion of the boat plus the backblast from the cannon firing agitate the ball bearings in the tray and cause them to fall down into the breech for the next shot. Though Australia has strict gun laws, these cannon are legal without a licence in all states and territories for people over 16 (we have got written confirmation of that from each state and territory's police force) Industrial strength eye protection is worn to protect the eyes 5 or more channel radios are used to control the vessels The vessels are constructed over a fiberglass frame, the skin is thin balsa and the exterior tends to be fairly rough (see www.ausbg.org/ships/alabama/alabama.html), all the TLC is lavished on the gear inside the boat. These vessels tend to be the opposite of the traditional RC naval vessel with a basic exterior but absolutely packed with gear on the inside. USS Alabama (my vessel) carries an 8 channel radio, 6 servos, a 20oz liquid CO2 container, about 450 1/4" ball bearings, 22 Ah of 6v battery firing valves, high pressure regulator and low pressure regulator and the rest of the gas piping along with a 4 liter per minute pump. The fully loaded vessel weighs in at about 15 kg. From a the point of view of a serious student of naval history it is a bit silly (no elevation on a dreadnought class battleship ?) and the battles are more like pre-dreadnought combat (melee) than lines of battle, but it is sort of fun, highly competitive and great stress relief. Feel free to have a look around on the website Regards Richard Simpson www.ausbg.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: IPMS Virginia Beach Go to the IPMS/USA web site and click on the "coming events" icon and scroll down to the Virginia Beach announcement. It's a hyperlink to the Virginia Beach site where you can find all the information you need. Rusty White 2003 IPMS/USA National Convention Chairman OKC IN 2003! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Re: IPMS Virginia Beach Kenneth Perry asked: >> I've been off line for a while. Where in Virginia Beach is the convention and when? Thanks. << The IPMS/USA National Convention will be held July 31 - August 3, 2002 at the Virginia Beach Pavillion. Contact Bill Brickhouse of the IPMS Tidewater organizing committee at Billbipm478@aol.com. for more information. Ed Mansfield,TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Richard Simpson Subject: Club Announcement: Asutralian Battle Groups' first battle in Sydney The Australian Battle Group will be holding it inaugural Sydney battle on the 14th of October from 10am till about 2. Present will be VNS Richilieu from Canberra, USS Indiana from Newcastle, HMS Lion (the never completed WWII battleship) from Armidale and USS Alabama from Sydney. It will be held just north of Bankstown airport in Sydney, Australia Please see http://www.ausbg.org/groups/sydney/sydney_battle_squadron.html for driving directions and what safety gear to bring. regards Richard Simpson www.ausbg.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Michael Bartel Subject: IHP Website I'm still rather groggy this morning, but I've just finished a two-day marathon of revamping and upgrading the Imperial Hobby Productions window to the world. The website is easier to navigate, features a totally different look, has more pages, information and some new pictures, and is just generally much better than it was a few days ago. Take a look! http://ihphobby.tripod.com Mike Bartel IHP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Subject: Friedrick Kappes enquiries I have a long list of completed detailed drawings of warships of destroyer size and below, including a mass of MTB - MGB, ML's, C.M.B's etc etc. See my site at www.john-lambert-plans.com Yours "Aye" John Lambert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume