Subject: SMML VOL 1377 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 00:32:17 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: WW2 British submarine colours and kits 2: Re: Spruance colors 3: need some open 5"/51s 4: Re: Canadian Tribal Class Destroyers 5: Re: Seaplane hanger elevators 6: From Afridi to Nizam 7: Re: GI Joe 8: Re: Oklahoma MS1 vs. MS5 9: HMAS BRISBANE 10: .30 cal MG 11: Re: 1/48 scale machine-guns 12: Deck colours -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: OrangeCon - So. Cal Model Contest -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: 3"/50 Mounts for Post WWII US/DD's 2: Rommel & Adams Class 3: Ebay??????????? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shane Subject: WW2 British submarine colours and kits Hi all, I have had a query from APMA member Glen Porter concerning the colours of the British Submarines during WW2 in the various theatres. He especially would like to know the colours of the S, T, U and V Classes. I have the Upholder Warship Profile and will be showing him that soon, but he would also like to confirm that the hull beneath the waterline was painted in "hull red"? Also what kits are available of WW2 British subs? Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Spruance colors >> i got the USS SPRUANCE from ebay 350 scale, but the color chart and what to paint which part is in Chinese. can someone help me, does anyone have English directions to this model ??? or know what to paint it? << Overall hull and superstructure is Haze Gary, upper mast structures, flat black, deck, dark gray. There are also numerous fire hoses, fire extinguishers and other bit here and there that are red or yellow. Good reference photos would go a long way there. Rusty White 2003 IPMS/USA National Convention Chairman OKC IN 2003! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: need some open 5"/51s I'm looking for a some 1/350 scale open mount 5"/51 cal guns, the types used as broadside casemate guns on the Arizona. Can anyone suggest a source?? Regards, Bradford Chaucer= -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: wem Subject: Re: Canadian Tribal Class Destroyers >> We were on some visiting Canadians in June & I took a sample of Light Admiralty Grey on to compare it. Very close if not the same colour. << Close, but not the same. I did Munsell matches aboard (among others) HMS ILLUSTRIOUS and HMCS HALIFAX at Festival of the Sea in August. In Munsell reference, the RN colour was 10BG 6.5/1 (in other words, a blue-green), which the RCN colour was 10G 7.5/1.0NN (in other words, a green). I forwarded all my findings to Randy Short for his inclusion in an upcoming S&S Modern Navies set of paint chips. WEM will be adding modern RN and USN to its line of Colourcoats paints in the near future (along with more WW2 colours). Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: tom Subject: Re: Seaplane hanger elevators >> Last night I was talking to a fellow modeler who told me he's working on a 1/48th seaplane catapault and had learned that USN cruisers had elevators for their seaplane hangars. How true is this? I asked which ships and he told me that some did. Well most of the interwar classes wouldn't have them because they were built in as garage style on the superstrutures to be next to the amidship catapaults, looking thru my library and found nothing. Once the hangar hatch slid forward the stern crane was used to lift them up. Any one know? << All of the Baltimore and Cleveland classes and their later derivatives had the big sliding hatches and below decks hangers and they are very noticable in photos, etc. Later ships had reduced hanger volume... probably due to decreased importance of cruiser aviation overall and also to vibration and resonance problems caused by having big void spaces right above the screws. Tom K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Chris & Lulu Langtree" Subject: From Afridi to Nizam Hi All I've just bought the new John English book, Afridi to Nizam - British Fleet Destroyers 1937-43 from the World Ship Society and am posting a few thoughts on it. The book covers the British destroyer classes of the thirties starting from the Tribals. Each ship is represented by a short history and the class by a reprise of their design history. However, readers expecting a lot of detail should expect to be dissappointed as the historys are quite basic with a bare bones account of the ship's lives. Major events in a ship's life warrant a bit more but not much and the histories for Tjerk Hiddes and Van Galen are particularly bare. There are photographs of each ship, some of which are quite interesting and reproduction is good. However, having looked through the book this is not a particularly well researched work (my comments about Tjerk Hiddes and Van Galen apply). Most of the Canadian tribals are represented by post-war photos which are very interesting but there could have been more wartime photos particularly of Haida and Huron for example. This is also the case with the Australian tribals and there are several photos of British tribals pre-war rather than during the war. I bought this book for its section on the tribals and so was a bit disappointed by this. There are also research inaccuracies and inconsistencies, for example the photo of Jaguar is labelled as being that of Jackal and for the engagement of Piorun and Ashanti with some German minesweepers in 1944 the book has two different lists of which ships were sunk and damaged (one for each ship history). The author should have made some attempt to ensure that he knew which one was the right one. The account of the sinking of Francesco Nullo by Kimberley (such as it is) is wrong and the account of the loss of Khartoum suffers from the introduction of spurious material which was rapidly disposed of at the original board of inquiry. The cause was the freak explosion of a torpedo air vessel not a shell hit. The design history is adequate, each class being covered in reasonable detail. However, Mountbatten's played no part in the application of longitudinal construction for the J class and didn't claim this himself. What I was impressed by was the inclusion of photographs of the M class in Turkish service but this is let down by confusion in the captions over the names of in these Turkish service. For the record Milne became Alp Arslam, Marne became Maresal Fevzi Cakmak, Matchless became Kilic Ali Pasha and Meteor became Piyale Pasha. I hate to blow my own trumpet but if you are interested in the just the JKN classes do not buy this book but wait for mine out next year. This will cover the design history and the ship history in considerably more detail with other aspects such as camouflage. There is absolutely no discussion of camouflage in this work. For the Ls and Ms if you can find a very rare publication by M J Dyer (The L and M Class Fleet Destroyers) get that one. It will at least give you a better account of the service history of both classes. The Tribals are better covered by earlier books. I am afraid for what it is Afridi to Nizam is quite expensive and not particularly good value. It is a slimish softcover and though some of the photos are worth having they are not worth the cost of the book alone. Not a book I can recommend. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: GI Joe >> I was just walking though the local toy store, and noticed a G.I. Joe figure labeled Pearl Harbor Battleship Row Defender. The sailor has a water cooled .50 cal naval mount packaged with him. Has anyone else seen this that is able to comment on the accuracy of the mount? I'll be attempting to build these mounts from scratch in the future in 1/350th scale, and if this toy is reasonably accurate, it might be worth having for a 3D blueprint. << Devin, I too have been looking for information on this mount. Take a look in my most recent book on the USS Wichita. There is a photo or two on this mount. If it looks the same, great. Let us know! Steve @ www.classicwarships.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Oklahoma MS1 vs. MS5 >> I just wanted to thank everyone for their help in determining that the Oklahoma was in MS5 at some point before (and probably on) Dec 7, 1941. Now I can go ahead and paint that false bow wave! << Yohan, I dont think you understand the camo designation, judging from your postings. Allow me to clarify. Ms. 5 is an option that could be added to a number of different camo measures in the early 1940s. Ms. 5 is not an overall measure, just the bow wave. There were even options to that bow wave. Some were just a white outline crest, while others had that crest in white and the body of the wave painted in with Ocean Gray (5-O). Nevada and Oklahoma were in Ms. 1, - - - WITH - - - the Ms. 5 option added. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: HMAS BRISBANE well im back from my zoological holiday instead of being a military airhow holiday & the news the other day was that thet old girl HMAS Brisbane future has been decided..She is to be sunk, i cant remember where abouts, but they will spend about a million dollars cleaning her up & then take her out to see for the fish & divers to enjoy..oh well another ship going to the fishes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Mike C" Subject: .30 cal MG Franklyn, are you kidding? The other manufacturer was Brown-ing. 1/48 .30 machine guns should be pretty easy to come by. They were the same air-cooled guns used in the back seats of many dive bombers, and there are a ton of those available in plastic. I think Verlinden also makes a set in resin and brass as an aftermarket upgrade for a/c kits. Check the VLS site on line or in their ad in FineScale Modeler. I believe the mounts were the same for both shipboard and aircraft use. Ships simply had receptacles for the mounts built into certain stanchions of the railings. Have fun, Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: Re: 1/48 scale machine-guns There was a posting earlier about where to get detailed 1/72 scale Browning and Vickers machine-guns, and I replied that Aeroclub, Aires, Hit Kit, and Eduard, all had very detailed kits that one could finish off their model boats with. In this latest issue, there was a posting asking about the same information in 1/48 scale. Again, these same companies listed above have the following items for sale. This list was available from Hannants in England, of whom I have used in the past and am well please with their service. http://www.hannants.co.uk The prices listed are in Pound Sterling with their approximate US value in parenthesis. Aeroclub ABG409 Browning (probably 0.30 calibers) x 2 0.77 ($1.15) ABG412 Browning 50 x 2 0.85 ($1.50) ABG413 Browning 0.303 x 2 0.77 ($1.15) ABG414 Browning Twin 0.50 x 2 0.85 ($1.50) Aires (resin and PE) (I think that you might be able to build four guns from this kit) 4856 Browning M2 0.50 waist guns 4.89 ($7-50) 4860 Browning M2 0.50 wing guns 4.89 ($7.50) Eduard (photo-etched detail set) 48041 Browning 12.75 (0.50 calibre) 3.66 ($5.10) Paragon Designs (resin) 48022 Browning 0.50 fixed design x 6 2.81 ($4.25) So, you should be able to find the detailed white metal or resin weapons that you want in either scale from any good on-line hobby store. Harold Stockton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "denis james" Subject: Deck colours Just read Enemy Engaged by R Sired. In it he makes reference twice to the practice on HMS Euryalus of regularly wiping the ships decks with "oil fuel every month to keep them dark for camouflage purposes. "Was this a common practice in the RN? Was it done in other navies? What would be the best match for this colour.? Ive been meaning to buy a piece of teak to test out all the permutations, obviously it will have to be a bit larger than I originally thought. Still on the subject of deck colours on page 163 of Pocket Battleships of the Deutschland class there is a photo of the Scheer that suggests her decks were partially camo'ed while in Norway. Does anyone have any knowlege of this and the colours used. Would appreciate the experts thoughts. Rgds denis james -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Richa5011@aol.com Subject: OrangeCon - So. Cal Model Contest Just a quick reminder that IPMS Orange County will be hosting their annual OrangeCon model contest on Sunday October 14th. Along with the contest, OrangeCon will have vendors, speakers, raffle and much more. The doors open at 0900, model registration closes at 1130, judging runs 1200 to 1330 and awards presentation starts at 1530. OrangeCon will be held at: Sequoia Conference Center 7530 Orangethorpe Ave Buena Park, CA For additional information contact Nat Richards at: Richa5011@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: 3"/50 Mounts for Post WWII US/DD's I make them in the twin mount version, but those could be converted to any single mount versions desired. You will find them on my web site @ www.classicwarships.com Please follow the ordering instructions on that site. Thanks, Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Rommel & Adams Class These ships are ready to ship to you at The Naval Base. http://www.navalbasehobbies.com/ Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Ebay??????????? Why go to ebay to find 1/350 scale Spruance's with and w/o VLS or Ticonderoga's with and w/o VLS they are right here at The Naval Base. http://www.navalbasehobbies.com/ Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume