Subject: SMML VOL 1384 Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 01:52:49 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: 1/144 th hull lines 2: Model of French carrier Bearn 3: Re: Is this hobby slowly disappearing? 4: Konishi's website 5: Arizona Mast Tops 6: Reply...Shipmodeling disappearing? 7: Best way to model water? 8: Re: Is this hobby slowly disappearing? 9: Re: Is this hobby slowly disappearing? 10: Re: PoW sinking 11: Hornet hull lines 12: Re: Ship sinking diorama 13: Is this hobby slowly disappearing? 14: Loss of Prince of Wales 15: death of a hobby? 16: New Nautical Books 17: japanese submarines 18: Re: Book on World War ONE Coastal Forces? 19: Re: ARIZONA 20: Re: USN Flags 21: Re: ICM ships (not HMS Hood or Essex class) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Books for sale 2: WSW/B-Resina price list - WARNING -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Bob Evans Subject: Re: 1/144 th hull lines >> Floating Drydock has listed Yorktown, Hornet and Enterprise plans for quite a while. I The TFW series by Tom Walkowiak are exceptionally good. They also have the G series plans redrawn from government archives. Has your friend tried this "suspect"? << Simon ... I responded to this request by letting this person know that I still have the original vellums for the 1/144 th scale Hornet and would gladly send a new copy if the person would cover copying and shipment. Bob Evans(:^> Franciscan Hobbies http://www.franciscanhobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Bruno Gire" Subject: Model of French carrier Bearn Hello all, Just a word to tell you of a coming 1/400 kit of the french carrier Bearn (in 1939 state) which should be issued by next December. I read the announcement in a -good and luxurious- young trimonthly french publication called "Navires et Histoire". The kit, which is produced with "l'Arsenal" firm will include 250 parts in injected plastic (short run ?), resin and photoetching, for a 42cm long model. It will include three (resin ?). PL-7, three PL-101 (both biplanes) and four Dewoitine D-373 planes (parasol wing). For those interested, this kit can be ordered in subscription, at 560 FF, or 650 FF after "publication". I don't know if they have a price for foreigners or an equivalent in US dollars. May be you could contact them at LELA PRESSE, 29 rue Paul Bert, 62230 OUTREAU, FRANCE (email : lela.presse@wanadoo.fr). I don't know, too, if "l'Arsenal" (larsenal@mail.cpod.fr) will stock and sell it. This kit will be a good addition to the 1/400 french carrier serie from Heller, along with Arromanches, Foch, Clemenceau and Charles de Gaulle. Still missing are the US built Bois Belleau and Lafayette and British built Dixmude. Bruno Gire Bordeaux, France -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: pelle@nord.alfaromeo.org Subject: Re: Is this hobby slowly disappearing? >> Please, I would like to hear from you guys all over the world, your opinions about this: Is this thing happening only here? Or is it premature sexuality stealing the interest of the kids? << I don't quite get this..Choosing a teenage goddess before the perfectly shaped hull of a Spruance-class destroyer...? *giggle* Pelle Sinful SWE PS: Also in Sweden, the vast majority of kits sold are aircraft, then tanks etc, cars and finally ships. Lately however, I've seen some bargain prices on the Revell 1/700 HMS Manchester (type 42#3), the USS Ticonderoca CG and the USS Spruance DDG. They are sold for approximately USD 3.00 each, and hopefully that'll start some new builders onto ships. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Masashi Ito Subject: Konishi's website Hi, everyone. Just in case you didn't know, I recently came across the website of Konishi, the producer of 1/300 Mikasa and others. The address is: http://www3.ocn.ne.jp/~konishi Their e-mail address is komodels@silver.ocn.ne.jp When I looked at the webiste for the first time about a week ago, its English section didn't work, but now it's OK (although some part of the English section is still under construction). They also have two catalogues of their ship models, one for ship kits and the other for ship parts. You can order their products and catalogues by fax, mail, or e-mail. Masashi Ito (I am not associated with the company at all!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Arizona Mast Tops Bob asked about the mast top colors on the Arizona >>... Several have told me that they were white, several have told me that the fore mast and platforms were gray and the rear were black. I have exhausted research in this area looking for this...any help out there? << The US Naval Historical Center as a series of photos relating to the Pearl Harbor attack. Perhaps you have seen one of their classic photos. The attached link shows the Arizona after the fires have been extinguished. http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h97000/h97380.jpg The fore-mast, which was toppled over by the force of the magazine explosion is burned and blackened. The aft mast remains painted in its Light Gray (5-L) Camouflage Measure 1 paint scheme. The hull and superstructure up to the level of the funnel tops should be painted in Dark Gray (5-D). Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Bill Gruner Subject: Reply...Shipmodeling disappearing? Eduardo, In response to your inquiry on the SMML, I believe interest in shipmodeling is very strong and getting better, as more and better models are being issued. Our business has never been better in the 8 years we have been in business, especially in resin ship kits; and 1/1250 metal miniatures and all plastic lines, plus books and accessories, are doing very well. I think the biggest problem confronting hobby shops is that they have very strong competition from mail-order businesses and the Internet. Also, you are likely to find that ships are not well stocked in most hobby shops because they have traditionally not sold as well as aircraft and armor; they will always be a smaller segment of the modeling market, even though in the last few years they undoubtedly have become a bigger share of that market. Sincerely, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Mike Petersen" Subject: Best way to model water? I am working on my 1:350 Big E and am getting to the point where I have to decide on in water or on blocks for display. What is a good way to model water that looks pretty realistic? I am looking for more of an Indian Ocean type water...more smooth than rough. Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated! Mike AT2 USS Enterprise 89-93 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Loren Perry Subject: Re: Is this hobby slowly disappearing? >> First, sorry for the somewhat rude subject. But I'm getting really worried lately: I'm from Brazil, and I'm noticing many hobby stores closing their doors, and the few remaining ones are carrying almost only cars and planes. Also, I see very few kids interested in the hobby, and most of them don't like ships, they like cars and planes. It's years since the last time I saw a kid in a store with a ship kit on his hands. Please, I would like to hear from you guys all over the world, your opinions about this: Is this thing happening only here? << My opinion is that this is a localized problem, not necessarily a world-wide one, because here in the USA, new hobby shops seem to open at a rate that balances out those that close. And there are lots of mail order firms that cater to people living far away from hobby stores. As for kids, as long as they're buying any kind of model kit, that's good for all of us. As young modelers grow, they learn more about history and naturally want to build models of what they learn about. Televised history shows help as do motion pictures based on real events. Eventually ships will catch their eye, whether it's Titanic, Bismarck, Missouri, or submarines. Your observations reflect a perceived problem that has been with us for decades now. Model building in the recent past has been threatened by model race cars, computer/video games, and other types of amusements. Creative people are born every day and they need to express themselves somehow. It's up to us older modelers to make sure they are exposed to models and miniatures at every opportunity. Loren Perry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: roberto paredes Subject: Re: Is this hobby slowly disappearing? Hi Eduardo, This hobby has a lot of fans, but today many kids are looking the japanese robots or something like that. I live in Chile, and since this week we have a new hobby shop! Be positive :-) Best regards, Roberto Paredes Sitio No Oficial del Ejército y Armada de Chile http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3389/homeffaa.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Filipe Costa Ramires" Subject: Re: PoW sinking Hello list I guess the subject became a "hot" issue like it was expected!!! I have a few things to say: I am almost graduated in Modern and Contemporary History and I saw dioramas and the major part of the Modelism world like history represented at scale! First of all the thing that I most appreciate in a diorama is historical accuracy (whatever the subject or issue is represented there). History should be related with the major accuracy possible, in other words it really represents something that once happened and it is important to show it in the way it really happened (violent or not). About the case of the PoW diorama I guess the scale of it represents practically only the ship sinking. Extra violence representation is almost impossible at this scale. I know that it can be an outrageous disrespect to those that perished in the battle and I completely respect them. The thing is that the battle really happened and it can't be forget or only related in books. What about those huge Waterloo and Gettysburg style dioramas that exists in some military museums??? Aren't they a dishonor to those thousands that perished in the battles!?! If they can put those dioramas in museums why can't a simple modeler build a small diorama (for personnel purposes) of a ship sinking!?! Just my humble opinion!!! Regards and please forget the issue and go back to your models! Filipe C. Ramires Lisboa, PORTUGAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Robert Morris" Subject: Hornet hull lines Floating Drydock - plan hull cv5/8. This is lines and offsets from Newport News. Can't get any better. Robert Morris North Benton OH USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: Re: Ship sinking diorama The question of good taste in modeling is an interesting one. And it is indeed rather difficult to pin down since much of what constitutes good taste has to do with the audience. For instance, I don't think that the HMS Hood Association would appreciate even the most respectfully done diorama of the Hood sinking... but I wonder if they would they feel as strongly about a similar depiction of the Bismarck? or of an ancient Greek galley? When I was a 14 year old US Naval Sea Cadet, I once built a cigarette-lighter damaged Lindberg LCI which I populated with a hideously mutilated crew of N-scale casualties; red spattered decks, severed limbs, grotesque death poses...a lurid effort I later realized was in extremely poor taste. Nevertheless, it was very well regarded at the time among my teenage Sea Cadet buddies who thought it very "realistic". Later, among my tie-dye clad contemporaries at the student cooperative at UC Berkeley, my ship models ("war toys") were regarded as being in very poor taste. Yet these models were just straightforward full hull ships with no crews or action depicted at all. I think that most of us who build warship models do so in part because of the compelling drama of history in general and of conflict at sea in particular. At the heart of this, or any, drama are the cruel facts of death, destruction, and of human suffering. Given this, I can understand (though not agree with) those who abhor even the most neutral depictions of warships. Yet I also understand the desire to go beyond the depiction of just the ship itself, to capture more of the underlying meaning of what these ships were, of what they were designed to do. I occasionally place my ship models in dioramas depicting unpleasant historical situations. I hope that these dramatic depictions are not offensive, but no doubt they are to some. I try to be sensitive to the audience intended, and to make sure the power of the depictions lies in their inherent historical intensity, not in some luridly perverse delight in the depiction grotesque suffering or gore. p.s. You can view one of my dioramas at http://www.steelnavy.com/Torpedoed.htm . Historical drama...or just bad taste? Tim Reynaga -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SAMI ARIM Subject: Is this hobby slowly disappearing? Hello Eduardo, As an American, and an active IPMS member I can tell you that the situation here is not as bad as in Brazil. I just stopped by at the IPMS Orange county contest and was amazed with the quality ship and other models presented there. I think that this is the best way to promote our hobby too. To organize conventions, and shows, to inspire the youngsters. Best Regards Sami Arim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Darshan Ward" Subject: Loss of Prince of Wales Garzke & Dulin's Allied Battleships NIP 1990 has more information on this than you may need or care to know. Including flooding diagrams, survivors reports and nearly 50 pages of densely packed informational text; too much to share here. My impression is that first decide at which moment you wish your diorama to represent, as the situation regarding damage control, ongoing air attack, flooding and counter-flooding, loss and repair of electrical supply etc was a very fluid and moment to moment situation over a period of less than 2 hours from start to finish. The hull and superstructure paint was apparently well weathered and worn at the time. It seems that the port 5.25s were immobilized due to loss of power and may have been at any bearing and elevation as they engaged low altitude fast moving targets when jammed. The stb'd 5.25s were at full depression and still unable to engage the last wave top torpedo attack. The Japanese Betty's and Nell's machine gunned the decks as they passed directly over the ship. Her loss was certainly an unlucky mix of hits and circumstance. As with the Bismark the one early hit on propellor shaft was significant and apparently she could have been turned to comb the tracks earlier. Heat and smoke below decks contributed to evacuation so imagine smoke from hatches and vents and also a haze around the ship. All pumps that could were operating, so hoses spread about deck and water. The crew assembled en masse star'b side and there was a certain amount of haste, panic and undisciplined confusion as the abandon ship took place. Ropes, fenders, mats and nets were dropped from the deck and secured. Possibly some liferafts and carley floats in the water. Personally it doesn't seem to me to be in poor taste to represent this historical moment. It's only a model, in and of itself neither good nor bad. Ships live and die and war is hell. Was the Titanic or Pearl Harbour an ill-considered theme for a motion picture? By the by, my own W/L Tamiya POW has a real teak quarterdeck after I made a rash choice of solvent to correct an even worse choice of deck colour. A piece of 1/16 by 4inch teak was secured from a timber merchant. Cut to size using existing deck as templet, stiffened from beneath and attached to the hull using yellow glue. I scribed on scale planking using a blade and a draughtmans steel rule. Deck fittings were either cannibalised or scrath built as necessary using Evergreen styrene. For finish I used wood bleach over a #600 sanding then painting a satisfactory shade of 'teak'. I have my own theories on the enormous variety of colour appearance and condition of wood decks, but that's another story. Best wishes and good luck. D Ward -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: death of a hobby? Well sure many stores are now going online & also it depends on what your location is..I have been building models ( Tanks ([1/76-72],Planes [1/72] & ships[1/700]) for a few years now & i thought a few years ago that my local hobby store which was the largest in Australia was not stocking any of my scale kits & that companies had forgotten the small scale, all they ever had was 1/35 & 1/48 kits, but then after a while a lot of companies started to release my scale again...as for ships being passed over for ships & cars, well each to their own, some prefer the speedy lines of a mustang{car or plane) & then their are some that like to build square box of destroyer. As years go on i see a lot more hobby shops closing & going online, as why pay thousands of dollars/pounds/yen in shop lease & probably get a few customers a week & pay salary for staff, when you can work from home, & thats the way a lot of business are becoming, one day there will be little human shopping contact. oh well such is life -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: New Nautical Books I just got a new Osprey catalog, which lists a large number of military books due out before the end of the year. Of interest to this list might be the following: Men-at-Arms Series: #359 Canadian Forces in World War 2 (assuming it includes naval forces) Elite Series: #79 Royal Navy 1939-1945 Warrior Series: #36 Grey Wolf: U-Boat Crewman of WW2; #37 German Seaman 1939-1945 Campaign Series: #92 St Nazaire Raid 1942 New Vanguard Series: #42 British Napoleonic Ship-of-the-Line Special Editions: Pirates - Terror on the High Seas Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: japanese submarines I had a book at home, now its buriesd under all my reference books, but id thought I'd rack afew brians out there as well.. Japanese subs, now the kits say that they had wooden colour decks, but the book i have says something that they coloured their decks a black & the hull was dark grey & later in the war the subs went black. A few WW2 shots of subs do show them with a light colour decking, so maybe they did have wooden colour decks after a long patrol.. any ideas or thoughts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: Book on World War ONE Coastal Forces? >> After you send Allied Coastal Forces #3 down the slipways, how about a nice comprehensive book on WW1 coastal craft? << Geez, Dave, you don't want much, do you? :-} At present, I have very, very little material on WWI craft. There is some material on the 80' ELCO MLs in Friedman's U.S. SMALL COMBATANTS. I MAS E LE MOTOSILURANTI has material on the Italian boats. BALTIC EPISODE deals with Captain Agar's CMB operations in Russia. There's also a monograph (the title of which I forget but have stashed somewhere on my bookshelves) written by Thornycroft that deals with the CMBs. Actually, before I did anything on WWI, I'd like to do a book on "crash boats" and one on Viet Nam era US riverine and coastal craft. I have plans for just about all of the VN stuff, but not much on the crash boats. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "WEM" Subject: Re: ARIZONA >> Can anyone tell me what color the upper mast's were on 7,DEC 1941? Several have told me that they were white, several have told me that the fore mast and platforms were gray and the rear were black. I have exhausted research in this area looking for this...any help out there? << Hi Bob, ARIZONA's upper masts--both of them--above about the top of the funnel were painted in the 1941 version of 5-L Light Gray, as specified in the instructions for Measure 1 camouflage. If you're looking for the right color (and for the 5-D Dark Gray of the rest of the ship, and the Teak decks), we have it in our new line of Colourcoats enamel paints. This line of paints is matched to original USN sources. Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Teliczan Tom Civ 15 SVS/SVF Subject: Re: USN Flags >> Hello Derek, Generally, the national ensign flown on the stern of a battle ship would be about 9 feet by 17 feet 1 inch. The jack would be the same size as the star field in the ensign. As a shameless plug I will mention that my US Navy Flags and Pennants, 1931 to 1959 set in either 1/350 or 1/700 scale includes these flags as well as all the signal flags and pennants, ranked flags, and the US Coast Guard ensign. These are marketed under the Dunagain Decals label and are available from several retailers who have posted on this list. Thanks and regards, Duane Fowler << This is a semi-biased plug - I've tried Duane's Dunagain Decals, & like Tony the Tiger says (does he still say it?) "They're GREAT!!!" v/r, Tomt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: ICM ships (not HMS Hood or Essex class) >> Am I the only one holding out hope for the ICM Takao class cruisers? << No, ICM has announced that the cruisers are behind the Essex kit. The sooner they get the CV out, the sooner we can get a IJN CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SAMI ARIM Subject: Books for sale I have two Orizzonte Mare pictorial series books for sale. First one about Conte di Cavour and Duilio classes of battleships and the secaond one about only Caio Duilio class of battleships. Both books are in mint condition and are 35$ each plus S&H. Thanks Sami arim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: WSW/B-Resina price list - WARNING Hi everyone The guys from WSW/B-Resina asked me to let you all know that their prices as of 28 Jan 2001 which you can find on the SteelNavy link is no longer authorized by WSW/B-Resina. The guys from SteelNavy had promised to update this link, but seemingly haven't found the time to do so until now. So please note that the prices as of 28 Jan 2001 on the WSW/B-Resina link on SteelNavy are no longer valid for WSW/B-Resina kits. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume