Subject: SMML VOL 1387 Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 01:33:37 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Phantoms 2: U-Boats in Dry Docks 3: FAA Planes... 4: New Arizona kit 5: Decline of the Hobby and ICM cruisers 6: Re: Hobby slowly dying? 7: FLOWER & AFP? 8: Re: A Volume IV now? 9: decline of our hobby 10: Re: New Arizona Kit 11: Subchasers WAS : 1:48 WW 1 machine guns 12: IDEA 13: Re: Disappearing of our hobby -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New from WSW: 1/700 Accessories 2: New Kits from B-Resina 3: More Hard-to-Find Books 4: WSW/B-Resina kits from the company formerly known as Rocky Mountain Shipyard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Chris Rogers Subject: Phantoms RN phantoms where the the F4K spey engined and hasegawa do an absolute beaut of a kit in 1-48 the bucc's where S2a the S2b was Royal Air Force in 1-48 Airfix do a S2b which can be converted to navy chris oz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Filipe Costa Ramires" Subject: U-Boats in Dry Docks Hello list Does anyone have or knows were to get photos of U-Boats (preference for Type II) in dry dock??? I am starting a diorama of one at 1/400 and I need to know what they do to support the subs in the dock (structures, etc). Thanks in advance. Regards. Filipe C. Ramires Lisboa, Portugal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Chris Hughes" Subject: FAA Planes... Dammit! I knew I was doing something wrong with my aircraft kits! That's it! No more research on colour schemes for me! I'll throw all those resin control surfaces, ejector seats, bulged wheels and conversion sets out of the window! No more fiddling with the PE switches and levers on the instrument panels, no more making up seat belts and harnesses out of thin tape and PE buckles. I'll melt down all my vacform canopies and use them to lay the base for a "sea" diorama! Finally, I can ask John Snyder for a list of "mixes" for all the FS/BSC/RLM/RAL paints to get that authentic Kobe Arsenal Grey and Sailor's Handbag Pink... Now then, where's my bucket of Elmers and the six inch paintbrush... I've got a 1/1200 Bismarck to build... Dayglo Yellow OK for the turret tops? Chris Tongue firmly in cheek and ducking for cover ;0) Hi Chris, Yeah it had better be planted firmly in cheek, otherwise someone may ask you how your new Gannet is going ;-þ Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Henry Blecha Subject: New Arizona kit >> I see a new BANNER brand 1/350th scale, injection molded, Arizona kit has appeared on the shelves at my local shop. What can any of you tell me about the quality of it?? << Ray Steve Wiper did a good review of the kit (also mentioned the Trumpeter Arizona kit) in the latest Model Ship Journal (V2 No.3). Maybe that will help in the decision making process. v/r Henry Blecha -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Michael Bartel Subject: Decline of the Hobby and ICM cruisers I would have to agree with Bill Gruner that the decline in the number of hobby ships isn't necessarily indicative of a decline in the hobby, but rather a changing paradigm. Mail-order shops and discount dealers offer a larger selection at lower prices since they don't have the overhead that most retail shops have. Remember Mr. Gruner's ill-fated attempt at a retail shop several years ago? It used to be that building models was a boy's hobby, and there weren't as many entertainmment options for a kid back in the days when models were $.49 each. Now, the hobby generally consists of people older than 20 or 30. It appears to me that many older hobbyists got their start in the hobby when they are younger, then suspend it when they are in high school and college, and then resume their hobby after they establish their careers and families, and have some extra disposable income. A lot of model railroaders that I have met have done this. Model railroading and scale modeling, though obsessions for some, is still an entertainment industry and a luxury. One thing is for sure- the model companies don't think there is a decline. There is a full listing of new products each year in the pages of FineScale Modeler. Even ICM is optimistic about releasing several new large-scale, expensive to produce and risky 1:350 scale ship kits. I'd like to see those Japanese cruisers too, but if everyone here REALLY know what it took to produce a kit when you are under pressure to get it right, stay on schedule and within the budget, and worry about all the other kits you are producing with the same things in mind, you would gladly say to ICM, 'Take your time and get it right. We'll be waiting, even if it's several years'. Don't expect them to release three big ship kits withing six months of each other - that isn't going to happen. They are smart to do one at a time, even if it takes years. The ship market is still healthy in my opinion, and so is the rest of the hobby. But, the days of the $.49 cent kit are over. Today's plastic kits will be high-quality, produced with expensive methods to get the best quality, and short runs will be the order of the day. That means higher prices. It's naive to think that prices are dictated solely by market forces, greed, or by other kits available for many years, on which 'the tooling has been paid for long ago', or by the prices that one 'remembers' from 30 or more years ago. Then again, we all have our own sources we go to get the 'best' prices for the kits we want- don't we? Mike Bartel IHP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Re: Hobby slowly dying? >> I'm getting really worried lately: I'm from Brazil, and I'm noticing many hobby stores closing their doors... << Same here. We lost a really nice, well stocked, local hobby shop in Bellingham, WA. The owner wasn't making it on R/C and plastic so changed to imports from India--then closed his doors. Another local shop carries plastic and supplies but says the gamers are really the key to his survival. I drive 40 minutes one way to Burlington, WA to get my supplies and am planning a two hour trip to a Seattle hobby shop this week to get some items for my current scratchbuilding project. Why drive? Because the hobby shop reminds me of the old days when it was THE place to get the good stuff. Mail order and/or internet purchasing is OK, but you can't stroll the aisles, find something you hadn't considered and check out the product first-hand. Not to mention getting the chance to talk with another modeling nerd instead of an 800 number order taker who only knows model ships as an "Item Number." Kids in our hobby are our future. What's the best way to get them involved? I think our best chance is to introduce them to R/C ship kits. Some of these build in an evening and having something to operate is akin to working a video/computer game console and gets them into fresh air as well. I know most of the modelers on this list are heavily into WWII plastic and resin, but that's primarily for adults and experienced modelers. Most kids would become frustrated reading this list and its seemingly endless finicky details about esoteric techniques and ships that date from the stone age as far as they're concerned. There'll be time for their tastes to mature, first we need to introduce the kids to our hobby with something fun and interesting with a little challenge thrown into the mix. Then you have to ask yourself, "What am I doing to get kids interested in the hobby?" Not much, I'll bet. Teach a community education class, donate your old magazines to the school library, give a kid at the pond a chance to run your R/C boat, give an easy-to-build ship model to boys and girls in your circle on Christmas and for birthdays and offer them a gift of your time to help them build the thing. Finally, I'll support my regional hobby shops as long as those intrepid guys keep their doors open. An entrepreneur could do worse than operating a risky hobby shop; he could try publishing a magazine devoted to model ships! Victor Baca Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "David Clark" Subject: FLOWER & AFP? I am about to build a Flower Corvette and I am looking for sources of components to replace some of the kit's more basic parts. I recently found the AFP Models site ( http://www.afp.zip.com.au/models.html) and I have no idea what their products are like. Unfortunately, the website does not have illustrations and I have not found any other sites with models incorporating their components. The catalogue includes components that are (or may be) applicable to Flowers. These are 4" Mk XIX turret (30AUD), depth charge thrower, bollards, Carley floats and possibly more. Does anyone have experience with AFP Models and their products or know where examples can be viewed? TIA David -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: PT Dockyard Subject: Re: A Volume IV now? >> I have just read Al's message about his thoughts on the WW I era C/F volume. Mine are similar, there was not a great deal to choose from. << John, At the risk of starting one of those ridiculous arguments AND biting the hands that may provide Volume III, I beg to differ on the "Not a great deal to choose from" on WW1 small craft. The Italians had over a dozen types, including one (Grillo) based on a tank with chains to climb over nets. They accounted for TWO Austrian Battleships. The British CMBs were involved in many actions, sinking a German destroyer in one. The Thornycroft CMB design soldiered on into WW2 to be used by Finland, China, Japan, Yugoslavia, Greece, not to mention "rum runners " in the Prohibition era coastal areas. In Russia, CMBs were doing everything from sinking half the Soviet fleet to being used as field modified armored gunboats on the rivers. The Elco 80' launches were used by virtually every Allied nation except the US. The US Subchasers are a story unto themselves and the Russians had a ton of small craft designs, their small river gunboats later dueling British monitors during the Intervention. The Austrians had a hovercraft MTB and sevral projected designs... The Germans built both MTBs (LM boats) and subchasers, the hull designs eventually leading to the WW2 S-boats. They also had wire controlled explosive boats that were used against and once actually hit a British monitor in the Channel. And don't forget "Mimi" and "Tou Tou" on Lake Tanganyika in East Africa...... What I am saying is this era has so many gems of information waiting to be told. Frankly, the story of post war British MTB designs sounds a little un-interesting next to the story of the CMB raid on Kronstadt in 1919. As far as availability, I have found pictures of ARMORED CMBs in north Russia and a drawing of the Austrian "Panzerboot" (a 75' MTB with a 75mm gun) in the past two days with three web searches. From one website it looks like a 40' CMB, a 55' CMB and a 70' CMB all have been or are being restored. As I said, this is just my opinion and wish. The First War always seems to get shorted. Dave at the P.T. Dockyard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "john fiebke" Subject: decline of our hobby In regards to the decline of our hobby...well, i'm one of the younger people involved it seems. And yes, there's no doubt that this hobby can't compete on the same level as video games and teen vixens for teenage boys. My father got me interested in history, and that got me interested in this hobby. I took time out from the hobby for the above mentioned distractions, but am now back. Those of you who went to OrangeCon last sunday may have noticed a young dude with spikey black rock star hair...that was me. All you older modelers can sure give some quizicle looks. Even my girlfriend noticed, though, that there were FAR fewer ship models than anything else..even sci-fi (yech). The key, and my point, is to get your kids into history. Get them interested in the subject matter just as much as the models. If I hadn't known the differences between an Iowa and Yamato, I wouldn't have wanted to model them. I don't think the problem is lack of interest in models, its lack of interest in history and world events in general among younger people. john fiebke -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Ed Grune Subject: Re: New Arizona Kit RAY MEHLBERGER" wrote >> I see a new BANNER brand 1/350th scale, injection molded, Arizona kit has appeared on the shelves at my local shop. What can any of you tell me about the quality of it?? << To quote Steve Wiper's review of the kit in the current issue of Model Ship Journal ... " ... some good basic parts shape, for the most part, but is bland on the details. For the modeler who just wants to build this subject, in this scale, out of the box, it will be a fun project. Serious modelers will want more from this kit." "The hull has marked characteristics of the Revell and the Tom's Modelworks kits. The main deck and some of the superstructure also have their origins from the above manufacturers. There is some original design work on the bridge decks. There is also some original design work on some of the smaller parts." "To give a fair assessment, the quality of the kit is good, but will need plenty of detailing for those striving for a really accurate model." Short story long to do it right ... be prepared to pay 20 to 40 dollars retail and another 40 dollars for the GMM etched set. Tom's also has a etched set listed at about 20 dollars. White Ensign will be releasing theirs soon. Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Shane Weier Subject: Subchasers WAS : 1:48 WW 1 machine guns Franklyn, >>> What was the top speed of a WW1 U-boat submerged OR surfaced? <<< >> Thank you for responding to my query about machine guns on a WW! submarine chaser of the U.S.Navy. I do not know much about submarines, but in one of the texts I have about chasers, the speeds of the UB 1 of 1915 (start of WW 1) was given as 6 1/2 knots on the surface and 5 1/2 submerged. The UB 2 appeared in 1917 with a surface speed of 9 knots, submerged speed not given. This was quickly followed by the UB 3 with a surface speed of 13 1/2 knots and a submerged speed of 7 1/2 knots. << This neatly makes my point. "Chaser" is a perfectly good description of the ships in question if they could outrun the U-boats whether or not the boats were surfaced. >>> Excuse my antipodean ignorance, but this appears to be a non-sequitur <<< >> I assume that you are from Australia, and could not be expected to be familiar with U.S. politicians. << On the contrary, I am well acquainted with his history. What seemed to me "not to follow" was that there was a problem with buying a class of ship *regardless* of who pushed it if in fact the reason for rejecting the ships didn't hold water. >> I am sure that no offense was meant by your remarks, and can guarantee that none was taken. << None was intended - I just failed to understand the problem (and still do) As those who know me personally will vouch - that's pretty well the usual case :-) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: IDEA I have a couple of Floating Drydock cammo plans at home. Has anyone thought of doing the same thing for RN, German, IJN, Italian etc etc, as seeing that on some kits eg Tamiya (O class for one) they show the cammo on 1 side, now thats perfect if the scheme is exactly the same on the other side & then what about the decks.. I have seen some models of kits that blue decks, yet someone else has done the cammo running part of the deck.. So just a thought, what's your opinions? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: CAPTVIN@aol.com Subject: Re: Disappearing of our hobby >> referring to the comment of Eduardo from Brazil, I must say, that in Germany there also seems to be a fade out-effect. I am member of a 30 person modellers club (ships, planes, cars, military, figures), we have a meeting every second saturday afternoon and we organize a modelling exhibition each November with approx. 500 visitors. To the exhibitions always come fathers with their boys, who seem to be interested in our hobby. We invite them, to come to our monthly meetings , some come one or two times and then they dont come anymore. Our so called "Modellbau-Team" (Modelling-team) is free for joining us, no membership costs and so on. Everybody is invited to share our hobby. But maybe people fear, to get trapped in a club with rules and so on. The toy shops are reducing their kit departments and all say, that young people prefer buying Video games and such stuff. Where does our hobby go? With fading sales, the kit manufacturers are not willing to pay much money for new tools, because they loose money. We have to think bout ways to make our hobby more attractive to the young. I am 42 years old and began modelling at the age of 11. My interest faded for approx. 5-7 years but grew bigger by joining the modellers-team. So, to all modelling fathers: please show your kids the joy of our hobby. << Has anyone even looked at the costs involved in this hobby lately? Who in their right mind would pay over $100.00 for a "model"???? You gotta be kidding me ! I don't know of any kid, who has that kind of money to throw around, even with a lot of detail, etc. It just ain't worth that kind of price...... V.DeGulis sr. freehold, nj -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: New from WSW: 1/700 Accessories WSW has just issued a series of accessories sets in 1/700 scale. The following sets are now available. Please note that the prices are all in Euro. The current exchange rate is approximately 1 Euro = 0.92 $ NEW Accessories, 1/700 Scale NEW A 001 Merchant Ship Set (1 cargo ship, 1 oiler, 2 tugs): 58.80 A 002 German AA Gun 2 cm C/30 single (12x): 4.24 A 003 German AA Gun 2 cm M 44 with photoetched shield (6x): 6.40 A 004 German AA Gun 3,7 cm C/30 twin (6x): 4.24 A 005 German AA Gun 3,7 cm C/30 single (6x): 4.24 A 006 German AA Gun 2 cm C/38 quadruple with photoetched shield (6x): 6.40 A 007 German AA Gun 3,7 cm M 43 single with photoetched shield (6x): 6.40 A 008 German AA Gun 3,7 cm M 42 single with photoetched shield (6x): 6.40 A 009 German AA Gun 8,8 cm twin (6x): 4.24 A 010 German AA Gun 10,5 cm twin (6x): 4.24 A 011 German AA Gun 8,8 cm C/16 single (6x): 4.24 A 012 Ring Decals for turrets of German WW 1 capital ships (4 rings): 2.53 A 013 British AA Gun 4 inch twin: 4.24 Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: New Kits from B-Resina B-Resina has issued, resp. re-issued the following kits. Please note the the prices are in Euro. The current exchange rate is approximately 1 Euro = 0.92 $ BR 713 HMS BURWELL, Town-Class destroyer, 1940: 21.47 BR 718 HMS CAMPELTOWN, ex Clemson-Class destroyer, 1942: 21.47 BR 719 HMS VANGUARD, battleship, 1946: 76.18 available from November 2001 Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: wem Subject: More Hard-to-Find Books Hi All, We've added to our trove of out-of-print and hard-to-find books. Prices are, of course, in Pounds: 523. PRESTON, Antony and Alan Raven,Ensign 3: Flower Class Corvettes, Bivouac Books, 1973, s/b, 56pp, comprehensive history of the development of the class and its use in WW2, augmented with 74 photos, 4-page colour centrefold of HMCS Snowberry, 8 colour profiles of other corvettes, 2-page line drawing P&Ps of Begonia and Buttercup, line drawings of various bridge arrangements, detail line drawings of depth charge rails and throwers, hedgehog mount. Rare and hard-to-find, slight foxing on cover, otherwise EXCELLENT, 58.00 524. RAVEN, Alan and H. Trevor Lenton, Ensign 2: Dido Class Cruisers, Bivouac Books, 1973, s/b, 58pp, comprehensive history of the development of the class and a brief ship-by-ship history, augmented with 75 photos, 4-page colour centrespread of Black Prince, 7 colour and 5 b/w camouflage profiles of Sirius, Scylla, Argonaut, Charybdis, Naiad, Euryalus, and Phoebe, numerous line drawings. Rare and hard-to-find, some foxing and cover a bit soiled, otherwise GOOD, 43.00 525. RAVEN, Alan and John Roberts, Ensign 4: Queen Elizabeth Class Battleships, Bivouac Books, 1975, s/b, 50pp, comprehensive history of the development, modifications, and employment of the class, 63 photos, 4-page colour centrespread of Queen Elizabeth 1941, 7 colour camouflage profiles, 3-page line drawing P&P of Queen Elizabeth 1918, deck plans. Rare and hard-to-find, front cover foxed, slight foxing on page edges, otherwise VERY GOOD, 50.00 526. RAVEN, Alan and John Roberts, Ensign 6: War Built Destroyers O to Z Classes, Bivouac Books, 1976, s/b, 48pp, well-written history of the classes and their development, armament, and employment, with 80 photos, 4-page colour centrespread of Oribi 1942, 11 colour camouflage profiles, numerous line drawings of O class, armament and rigging details. Rare and hard-to-find, slight foxing, otherwise GOOD, 50.00 527. RAVEN, Alan and John Roberts, Man o¹ War 1: County Class Cruisers, RSV Publications, 1978, s/b, 56pp, comprehensive history of the development of the class and ship-by-ship modifications, 99 photos, numerous line drawings, 4-page colour centrespread of Suffolk 1942, 5 colour camouflage profiles. Rare and hard-to-find, cover heavily foxed, contents slightly foxed but otherwise GOOD, 47.00 528. RAVEN, Alan and John Roberts, Man o¹ War 2: ŒV¹ and ŒW¹ Class Destroyers, Arms & Armour, 1979, s/b, 56pp, well-written history of the class, augmented with 110 photos, line drawings of Vidette as-built, Winchester in July 1942, 12 colour camouflage profiles, and a 4-page colour centrespread of Wolverine in late 1942. Rare and hard-to-find, but with a couple of red underlines by previous owner, GOOD, 42.00 529. RAVEN, Alan, Ensign 1: King George the Fifth Class Battleships, Bivouac Books, 1972, s/b, 44pp, 47 photos, many line drawings, fold-out colour centrefold showing camouflage schemes. Rare and hard-to-find. Some foxing, GOOD, 56.00 530. RAVEN, Alan and John Roberts, Ensign 5: Town Class Cruisers, Bivouac Books, 1975, s/b, 52pp, comprehensive history of the class, augmented with 75 photos, line drawings of design concepts, Belfast in August 1945, 7 colour and 9 black-and-white camouflage profiles, and a 4-page colour centrespread of Sheffield in winter 1941/42. Rare and hard-to-find, small crease on cover but otherwise EXCELLENT, 56.00 531. NORTHCOTT, Maurice P., Ensign 8: Renown and Repulse, Battle of Britain Prints, 1978, s/b, 48pp, well-written history of the design and construction, modifications, and service histories of these famous battlecruisers, with 73 photos, numerous line drawings, 4-page P&P centrefold of Repulse 1916. Rare and hard-to-find, slight foxing, otherwise GOOD, 49.00 532. RAVEN, Alan and John Roberts, Man o¹ War 4: Hunt class escort destroyers, RSV Publications, 1980, s/b, 56pp, design and service history of this important class of ships, with 88 photos, 4-page colour centrespread of Badsworth and Cotswold, 12 colour camouflage profiles. Rare and hard-to-find, VERY GOOD, 48.00 533. NORTHCOTT, Maurice. Hood: Design and Construction. Rare and hard-to-find, and complete with the oft-missing insert of Admiralty reports on the ship¹s loss. VERY GOOD to EXCELLENT, 58.00 534. RAVEN, Alan and John Roberts, Ensign 5: Town Class Cruisers, Bivouac Books, 1975, s/b, 52pp, comprehensive history of the class, augmented with 75 photos, line drawings of design concepts, Belfast in August 1945, 7 colour and 9 black-and-white camouflage profiles, and a 4-page colour centrespread of Sheffield in winter 1941/42. Rare and hard-to-find, NEAR MINT, 58.00 535. NORTHCOTT, Maurice P., Ensign 8: Renown and Repulse, Battle of Britain Prints, 1978, s/b, 48pp, well-written history of the design and construction, modifications, and service histories of these famous battlecruisers, with 73 photos, numerous line drawings, 4-page P&P centrefold of Repulse 1916. Rare and hard-to-find, EXCELLENT, 55.00 Cheers, John Snyder Bookmeister White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: rms Subject: WSW/B-Resina kits from the company formerly known as Rocky Mountain Shipyard Greetings and Salutations! Please check out our web site for great prices on all WSW and B-Resina 1/700 resin ship kits: www.wic.net/~rms/ Available and listed are all of the new releases from both WSW and B-Resina, and updated prices. Also, to see a profile line diagram of each vessel, click on the vessel name. AND: we have added the 1/700 ship accessories from WSW, plus all of the naval paint chip sets currently available from Snyder and Short. I will fax a purchase order to WSW in Germany on Friday, 26 October. Questions/orders? Please contact me off list: rms@wic.net Thanks and have a great weekend! Lisa D. Norman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume