Subject: SMML VOL 1390 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:11:16 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Bridges on old USN flushdeck DDs 2: Re: SG Radar 3: Re: Modeling a somewhat accurate 1/72 scale 3"/21 for an S/C 4: New 1/700 kit 5: Armada Scale Models 6: Recent Trip to the New World 7: Something good from Lindberg 8: Buccs 9: Some thoughts on scratchbuilding 10: Re: Is this hobby slowly disappearing? 11: Re: Decline of hobby 12: Re: DC Navy Yard Update 13: WSW/B-Resina kit vendors 14: Model ID? 15: Re: Skipjack -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Question for USS Hornet SMML/IPMS Group -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: GMM 1/700 Wasp set 2: HMCS Snowberry decals -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: Re: Bridges on old USN flushdeck DDs Alan Lindstrom wrote: >> Was the bridge on the old USN flushdeckers such as the Ward open at the rear, or enclosed? << A little further explanation might help Alan and others about the bridge assembly on these DDs. Firstly, there was a deckhouse that served as the base structure for the "flying bridge," which was open to the rear so as to have access to the signal flag bags. Also, the glass windows could be slid down vertically for ventilation. There was a smallish deck house that was enclosed on the bridge deck, which also served as the main support platform for the signals deck. The signals deck, which served as the roof structure for the bridge area,. was completely open to the elements as many signal decks were on many vessels constructed around the world. On many of these "four-stackers," there was a searchlight platform erected above the signals deck. All in all, this area was a fairly busy area of the ship as far as details are concerned. Harold Stockton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Bruce Ross" Subject: Re: SG Radar Devin, according to the U.S.S. Juneau book by Floating Drydock, the SG was mounted on top of the foremast in June of 1942 replacing the original placement of the SC. At that time the SC was moved to the top of the mainmast. Apparently only Juneau and San Juan carried them in this arrangement. Best, Bruce Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: Re: Modeling a somewhat accurate 1/72 scale 3"/21 for an S/C For those out there who might like to have a decent 3"/21 on their 1/72 USN vessels, here a few modeling suggestions. Bandera Miniatures make the following items in white metal; and can be viewed (list only) at: http://members.aol.com/SOTCWBSTAR/pubpage.htm MSR8; SCHNEIDER 75MM M1897 FIELD GUN £2.99 MSR33; FRENCH 75MM M1912 FIELD GUN £2.99 Though the French 75mm would only be applicable to a French CH (American WW-I Sub Chasers) with a pintle mount which was very similar to the mount for a USN 3"/21, or the earlier mounts for the 20mm. Also in 1/72 scale from EXO kits at: http://hometown.aol.com/eexokit/LaPageEXOKIT/EXOKIT.html are the following items that could serve in a nautical setting. 7201 Allied floating Treadway boat assembly (could be used for an LST diorama). About $30. 7201 Army assault boats, four (4) motorized. These are about $18 for the set. In conclusion, I made a mistake in my last posting about using the gun assembly from a 1/72 scale Revell (in their "Flying Crane" helicopter kit) or ESCI 155mm howitzer to model a 3"/21 in 1/48 scale. The weapon's caliber should be the 105mm for scale purposes. Sorry. Harold Stockton P.S. See what a look at other areas of modeling can open up to a person who prefers ship modeling. BTW, I absolutely died and went to modeler's heaven when I saw EXO kit's: 7217 SS-11 "Sego-1" (IRBM) with its MAZ 537 heavy tractor and transporter, for about $122. 7218 SS-11 "Sego-3" (same kit as above but with a clear plastic missile tube and a fairly detailed missile), for about $122. I made an earlier mention of a Russian modeler who did a whole series of Soviet ICBM and IRBM models in their transporters. This guy may have been the master modeler for Exo's tooling, as his models were made from the ground up. These two kits listed above were kits, and they are not as detailed as this other guy's models were. What do I think about the price of about $122 for a IRBM model kit? I am also going to be ordering this same company's MAZ 537 heavy cargo carrier ($30), the 1V14 / AV15 ACRV ($24), and the MAZ 537 heavy tractor and Tsch MZAP 5247 tank trailer ($55). The ACRV will be used to build the launcher for the Russian S-200 AAA missile system, and the last mentioned item will be used to build a "Topal-M" SS-22 (A-350, ICBM) transporter. Rockets also float my boat, just vertically. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Jim Johnson" Subject: New 1/700 kit Early in the week, a respondent at modeling site (Hyper Scale) mentioned that Tamiya has some new announcements for the near future. The only ship on the list was a 1/700 Kursk, which is an Oscar II ship. The announcement was in Japanese which I do not read, so I don't know whether it is full hull or split or waterline only. It should be out by the end of the year. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "aa8." Subject: Armada Scale Models Hello All Does anyone know anything about the availability of the 1/350th scale V and W class HMS Vega by Armada Scale Models. I must admit that this is one that has passed me by before but I would be interested in laying my hands on one. Is it available anywhere and if so is any good? Any info would be appreciated Regards Andy Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "aa8." Subject: Recent Trip to the New World Hello All North American SMMLies We have been back home here in the UK for a few days after our North American experience. I'd like to thank all Americans and Canadians for their hospitality and although I didn't meet any SMMLies that I was aware of maybe my thanks about the welcome we received at the many museums we visited will get back to them. The ships we visited/saw are as follows:- USS Olympia USS Becuna USS New Jersey (not yet open but got as close as possible) USS Salem USS Massachusetts USS Lionfish USS Joseph Kennedy Hiddensee USS Constitution (closed because of the present crisis) USS Cassin Young HMCS Haida I would particularly like to thank the following people. The crew of the Salem who gave us a great guided tour--I think the WW2 vet who spent the most time with us was called Larry. If anyone knows him please pass on our special thanks. All the WW2 Submarine vets on the Becuna who guided us around. It really brought the realities of life on board home to us. and Lt Peter Dixon who allowed us onto the Haida even though she was officially closed. Also Bill Gruner and Steve Wiper for delivering to my friends house in New Jersey on the day I arrived there a 'Classic Warships' USS Salem kit. Great service guys!! I'd also like to thank my wife Vanessa for her tolerance while I climbed and walked and photographed these wonderful ships. We did do all the usual tourist things in Philadelphia, New York, Boston and Toronto. Altogether a great trip. To all of you out there please continue to travel. Security is tight but not unbearable and good humour seems to be prevailing despite some delays. If we all stay at home and adopt a bunker mentality I think our terrorist friends will have won. We'll be back regards Andy and Vanessa Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Something good from Lindberg >> I have to wonder...is this the same group of people that routinely lambasts the old kits from Lindberg, Revell, and others that are under $50.00? << There was one very well done kit from Lindberg. It was the U.S. Coast Guard 95' Coastal Patrol Boat, Kit #7409M. The hull plating was not exactly right, but is easily sanded and the parts match well with official plans. The kit only needs a few mods here and there to it make accurate, but looks great built right out of the box. It's also easy to motorize and floats, making it ideal as a bathtub boat for a kid or maybe a mini-RC subject. Not sure if this old gem is still available. It should be though, given the renewed interest in the public's mind for anything that rescues for a living. One thing you gotta say about Lindberg is that their models may not be the greatest from a nit-picker's standpoint, but their subjects are certainly innovative and interesting. When everyone else was making yet another USS New Jersey, Lindberg's subjects dared to be different. Their USS Carronade stands out in my foggy memory as being one of them. Victor Baca Model Ship Journal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Chris Rogers Subject: Buccs G/Day If the Airfix Bucc is an early 2A then no external mods are needed except a few aerials as its the same plane as navy S2 if you want to do an S1 then there are a lot of changes needed mainly around the air intakes which where smaller all buccs retained the hook, folding wings,nose cone and tail there is a bucc web site such a shame it was taken out of service it was years ahead of any thing for its time but hours maint against hours flying ended its career after the gulf conflict not bad for early 50's design if you need more give me a bell of line chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Some thoughts on scratchbuilding I really enjoy reading the thoughtful writing on the cost of our hobby v.s. getting kids involved. The hobby will survive. Model kits and suppliers come and go but we, as well as our ancestors, have been building ship models since before time was recorded. The real survivors will be those who take the time to learn how to scratchbuild and stop anxiously waiting for the latest kit to arrive. And when the kit arrives, is there any guarantee that it will be in your favorite scale or configuration? Why wait? Build your own, it's easy. So easy, even a kid could do it given simple plans and very little cash. The main problem with scratchbuilding is the perception among many seasoned kit builders that it's far too esoteric and a skill beyond the normal building process. Nothing could be farther from the truth. If you can read plans and can transfer the drawings to stock, you're on your way. Books are available to take some of the mystery out of the equation and used titles such as Ship Modeling In Miniature, Scale Model Sailing Ships and Scale Model Warships can be found at used book sellers. You can begin by kit bashing or modifying a basic kit model then attempt one fully from scratch. The writings of the late Al Armitage (he passed away a few weeks ago, God bless him) is featured in the excellent railroad modeling magazine, Mainline Modeler. They are simple stories all about scratchbuilding in plastic card stock. Al wrote about making buildings, rolling stock and such for railroaders, but one modeler's building is another modeler's superstructure. Al Armitage practically invented and heavily promoted the art of scratchbuilding with styrene as early as the 1960s when he was employed by Revell to design their early ship model kits. Remember the old Cutty Sark kit that put Revell over the top as a ship modeling company? That was one of Al Armitage's creations. Sheet styrene formed the basis for his master model which was sadly cut to pieces by Revell to engineer the molds. After a while, you'll find your scratchbuilt models are better than any commercially available kit because with practice comes improvement. You can keep to common scales and use commercially purchased photoetch and parts from plastic kits to save building time after making the basic ship's structure. Photoetch parts can also be seen as raw material that can be modified for your own uses as well. The best thing about scratchbuilding is that you won't need special tools. My 1/8"=1' replica of the NOAA ship Miller Freman is nearing completion and it's being built using simple tools like X-Acto knives, sandpaper, steel rulers, fingernail files and a simple scroll saw and airbrush. This stuff is what any plastic modeler normally has in his shop. The paints are the same, the tools are the same, the glue's the same, the materials are the same--why not think "out of the box" and give scratchbuilding a try? Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Vollrath" Subject: Re: Is this hobby slowly disappearing? Hi everyone- I just want to let you all know that I'm 16 years old and I am scratchbuilding a 192 scale Titanic. I live in Washington state and there is only 1 hobby shop within 30 miles- and it's a train hobby shop. No, I don't think that this hobby is disappearing, it's just hard to find books and information on ship modeling. Jessi p.s. Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Decline of hobby >> On the other, a day the the Nautilus Submarine Museum is also free. << FYI- the US Submarine Force Museum (AKA the Nautilus Museum) just reopened after being closed for over a month after Sept. 11. The Nautilus (SSN-571), which is part of the Museum, is still not open for tours at this point. The New London Sub Base immediately adjoining the museum is locked down tight. Just in case anyone was planning a trip to see the Nautilus, wouldn't want you to be disappointed. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: DC Navy Yard Update Hey Mike, Must have just missed you at the Naval Historical Center. I was there bugging Mr. Finey and Heberline about BB62 and Schnellbootes. I just got back from a massive search of the Nat. Archives and the NHC for those two subjects. I opened and closed those two facilities for 5 days last week. I was very successful on both. I found the most awesome photo of the "Black Dragon" (BB62) for the front cover at the NHC, along with many, many more great shots. Lots of photos from the early 1950s, which is what I was looking for. I have acquired about 500 photos total, so again I must decide which are to go into the book. Those interested in my future New Jersey book are in for some real treats, as I found lots of photos that have never seen the light of day for years, let alone ever published. Actually found some original color photos on the Schnellbootes. Also found many photos from German magazines and newspapers, which I dont believe have been reproduced since. Must keep most of these findings to myself, due to competition, but this book will have lots of new stuff that others do not. I have acquired about 210 photos total, many drawings of just about every configuration, weapons drawings, color camo profiles, etc. I have also acquired some video on these vessels. Man is this ever cool!!! As a former beach bum, life guard, and manager of a power boat marina, this footage was a real treat to view. Big fast power boats, with GUNS!!! That and power tools, What more could a man ask for? I hope to have both books to the printer in early December. Steve Wiper www.classicwarships.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: WSW/B-Resina kit vendors Gernot Hassenpflug asked: >> Excuse my ignorance, but are WSW and B-Resina kits available from WSW directly, somewhere in Europe? A websearch did not find WSW. Apart from WEM, and possibly Hannants, are there any other recommended mail order vendors that might stock these items, in the UK or Europe? << WSW/B-Resina still isn't online, but you can order from them directly. Their fax number is (+49) 7720-31635. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: Model ID? Hello Listmembers, I recieved this e-mail this weekend. Anyone have any ideas as to what this fellow for a model he is trying to ID? John Frohock USNSM >> Dear Sirs I have recently begun a project to restore a model my late father built in 1930-32. It is unidentified and I am looking for resources to find out what ship the model represents - any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Size: The model itself is 24" long and 3" wide. It shows a fairly regular spacing of 1/4" between portholes, stateroom doors and so on, but when I estimate this spacing at 10', I get LOA of 960' and beam of 120', which seems much too great. Another method I then tried was measuring the lifeboats (1 1/4"), and applying the assumption that they are 25' long. This gives a scale of 1"=20', an estimated LOA of 480' and a beam of 60', which does seem intuitively plausible from observation of the proportions, etc. Colour scheme: The superstructures are white, while the funnels are gold, the hull is black and the bottom paint is green. Structure and detail: There are two large raked funnels amidships, two very tall (radio?) masts (one forward and one astern), and twin, four-bladed screws. There is a one-story, full-width deckhouse forward of the bridge, and two large hatch covers forward of it and one aft. The main superstructure is three stories high, with the five-story bridge area being separated by a gap from the main passenger areas, which have covered promenades on the second story. There is another separate, two-story, deckhouse/passenger area, curved around the stern. This also has a distinctive covered promenade sweeping fully around the stern, below the main deck level. The funnels measure 2", or 40' above decks, while the (radio?) masts> measure 4 1/2" and 5", or 90-100' in height. The height, from the waterline to the top of the funnels, is 5" or 100', and 6 1/2", or 130' to the top of the tallest mast. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: Skipjack >> The numbers were on the hulls during early sea trials, and usually removed at some point there after. In the late 50's, early 60's they often had the number on both the sail and on the nose of the boat, along with the name in small letters toward the stern. Skipjacks were either all black, or black from 1/2 up the hull, and hull red 1/2 down. Some Skipjack subs were painted in the Pacific scheme, which had light gray on vertical surfaces (sides of sail, induction trunk housing). << Another great resource for a mid-life Skipjack would be the NHC site for the USS Scorpion, the detail available in the UnRep photos of her at Tallahatchie County are great! See it at: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-s/ssn589.htm I especially like the 4th and 5th photos on the main page. They illustrate a camo scheme Tom did not mention: All hull portions are black, including the induction trunk and top of the sail, while the vertical surfaces are gray. No markings visible al all ... throw that poor decal sheet away! BTW, I discovered that on two of the kits in the shop that the upper and lower hulls do not mate! The lower hull is about 3/8" wider than the upper! Sounds like a great place to start for a diorama. What scale is the Lindberg LST? I know it is in the 200s, but IIRC is it more like 1/260. James Corley AAA Hobby Supply email: aaahobby@earthlink.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Question for USS Hornet SMML/IPMS Group What's the date of your November meeting? I'm going to be in town on the 9th, and figure I'll miss out, but there's always hope ... Thanks Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Loren Perry Subject: GMM 1/700 Wasp set Design work on Gold Medal Models's new PE set for the Revell/Germany LHD Wasp kit has now been completed and a test piece has been ordered to check for correct fit. Work now proceeds with the instruction sheet artwork which is 50% complete as of this writing. For more information on this new PE product, go to the What's New section of the GMM web page: www.goldmm.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: HMCS Snowberry decals Hi all, After much procrastination I finally played with my ALPS printer tonight. It took a couple hours to figure out what I was doing, but I finally got it going. First up was a page of Snowberry gunshields (and a few of Wetaskiwin for my own use). The Snowberry ones will be available for $5 US (postage included). I have done it with the port side facing both fore and aft so you may choose which way you would like them to face. I should have a test shot of it on the kit gunshield in the next day or so. . sooner if I just scan it. A preview of what it looks like can be seen at the second URL below Regards, Bob Pearson View my corvette illustrations at: http://www.internetmodeler.com/2001/february/galleria/Flowers.htm http://www.internetmodeler.com/2001/april/galleria/Flower_Class_corvettes2.htm http://www.internetmodeler.com/2001/october/galleria/RN_Flowers.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume