Subject: SMML VOL 1391 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 00:30:10 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Conway pre-1860 2: Scratchbuilding 3: Re: Flush deck bridges 4: Questions for Steve Wiper 5: Re: New 1/700 kit 6: Re: New from WSW: 1/700 Accessories 7: Re: 1/76 and 1/72 scale landing craft and small "Coastal Forces" kits 8: Re: Modeling a somewhat accurate 1/72 scale 3"/21 for an S/C 9: Armada Scale Models - HMS Vega 10: S-boats 11: Re: Armada Scale Models and S-boats 12: Re: HMS Vega 13: FAA Aircraft 14: Re: Heller HMS Hood 15: Re: Is this hobby slowly disappearing? 16: Heller kits -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: WSW/B-Resina kit vendors 2: New Books Arriving 3: KAGA 1/200 plans, new OCT. UPDATE 4: Re: Andy Jones: Re 350th Scale HMS VEGA..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: Conway pre-1860 Is there a Conway´s all the World´s fighting ships containing ships older than 1860? Or do you know other books with line drawings of sailing war ships? TIA Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://www.geocities.com/friedkappes/flagship.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "J. London" Subject: Scratchbuilding Victor Baca's posting on scratchbuilding was something that needed saying. I have been scratchbuilding (mostly in 1:1200) for nearly 60 years and have never had the same satisfaction from the few kits that I have assembled. One of the pleasures of SB is research; not only finding out about the prototype but also figuring out ingenious ways of making the various parts. My first efforts at the age of 12 were made of card, similar to the commercial card models one sees today, based on Talbot-Booth's "Waterline Ship Models" published about 1935. From card I moved to balsawood, building up the models from strips in the so-called bread-and-butter method. This involved considerable sealing before painting but, provided this was done properly, resulted in some very acceptable results. From balsa I moved on to basswood, a harder material, before hitting on the idea in 1977 of using plastic card in conjunction with polyester resin (car body filler). By photo copying the plan onto .010" card and then cutting out the various decks plus a centerline profile one can assemble a shell for the main hull into which the resin is ladled. Once this has set final shaping can be done using sandpaper and a sharp blade. I like this material because it can be drilled, cut, sawn and sanded without splitting or fuzzing while retaining sharp edges. Any mistakes are quickly corrected by cutting out and refilling and refinishing. Small parts, such as lifeboats, can be cast out of resin and one can make sheets of the same material in various thicknesses for building up superstructures. For larger models similar principles apply except that the interior of the hull can be left hollow by building in an interior box and using the resin for the outer skin only. This must be thick enough to form any flare, tumblehome or other feature that requires carving or shaping. When one considers the cost of kits and commercial models these days SB is remarkably cheap the biggest expense often being the plans while paint and othe materials usually cost less than a few dollars a model. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Flush deck bridges By mid WW Two, most, but not all Flush Deckers in the US Navy, had the Navigating bridge completely enclosed. This applied to DDs, DMSs, DMLs APDs and AVDs. The enclosure of bridges began before the war in the late 1930s. This practice gave a different layout to the Navigating bridge level and to the level above. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Questions for Steve Wiper What's the progress on the Burke book from CWP? Also, have you guys made any progress toward the subject we spoke about on the phone? Can we expect a future Perry Class book from CWP? Looking forward to answers on all three subjects. Sorry to all on the vagueness on all this. PS HOW ABOUT MORE MODERN STUFF! Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. 2003 IPMS/USA National Convention Chairman OKC IN 2003! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Masashi Ito Subject: Re: New 1/700 kit Hi, >> Early in the week, a respondent at modeling site (Hyper Scale) mentioned that Tamiya has some new announcements for the near future. The only ship on the list was a 1/700 Kursk, which is an Oscar II ship. The announcement was in Japanese which I do not read, so I don't know whether it is full hull or split or waterline only. It should be out by the end of the year. << Thank you, Jim Johnson, for the info on Tamiya's Kursk! I've checked Tamiya's websites both in Japanese and in English. Here is the link (in English): http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/plastic/models/31906.html. Some photos are available there and he model looks waterline and (but?) quite good. Masashi Ito -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Re: New from WSW: 1/700 Accessories >> WSW has just issued a series of accessories sets in 1/700 scale. (Details deleted) A 001 Merchant Ship Set (1 cargo ship, 1 oiler, 2 tugs): 58.80 << Is this an Allied cargo ship and oiler, e.g. a Liberty and a T2, or a set of German merchants? The latter would make me a happy man. Thank you! Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: Re: 1/76 and 1/72 scale landing craft and small "Coastal Forces" kits I just recently found these 1/76 scale (not quite 1/72, but at least close) WW-II landing craft from Crusader Models at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9730/crusader-a.html CMB09a WWII,UK, LCA Mk II (Landing Craft Assault) $ 14.00. This craft could carry 25 troops who had to go over the sides to disembark. Versions of this craft were the (Hedgerow) and (Obstruction Clearance). A D-Day shot of these in action can be seen at: http://www.dnd.ca/menu/Feature_Story/2001/jun06_01_img/a132651.jpg CMB09b WWII,UK, LCM Mk I (Landing Craft Mechanized) $ 20.95. Able to carry between 60 to 100 troops, or carry one 16 to 40 ton vehicle or tank. CMB25 WWII,US, LCVP (Landing Craft Vehicle Personnel) $ 14.00. Could carry up to 36 troops or a 3 ton vehicle. CMB39 WWII,US, LCP(R) (Landing Craft Personnel Ramp) $ 14.00. This craft could carry 35 troops, with twin side ramps. CML01a WWII, Japan, Daihatsu Landing Barge Army Type $ 19.00. They also have enough soft-skinned and other vehicles to load up the above landing craft, and they also have Normandy fotifications for you to assault with the above. Interesting subjects for the "Coastal Forces" group that is out there. A 1/72 scale PT boat in the Med or South Pacific would be a good companion to any of the above. Another manufacturer of 1/72 small craft is Brittania Miniatures at: http://www.wargame.com/britannia/ww2/ship.html They make the following items in resin and white metal. All prices are in Pound Sterling (multiply prices time about 1.5 times, and then deduct 17.5% VAT). They do take major Credit Cards, but through email orders at: sales@wargame.com. With the number of people on this thread waiting for the new items for their "Coastal Forces" fleet, these items are real finds. From reading and viewing a review on their Vietnam era RPB, these are fairly detailed kits. They seem like good value for the money. AMP1 British Landing Craft Assault (LCA) with 3 crew 7.50. AMP2 British Raiding dory with Coxswain 3.50. AMP3 US NAVY Landing Craft Tank + 10 crew / Oerlikons / MG's etc 18.5 inches 40.00. AMP4 Partly sunk British Landing Craft Assault 3.50. AMP5 US NAVY LCVP with 3 crew and Mg's 7.50. AMP6 German Sturmboot 39 Assault boat + 2 crew 4.00. AMP7 Greek Caique fishing vessel 11.95. AMP8 German Sturmboot 42. With 2 crew 7.50. AMP9 German Sturmboot 39, sea going version with 2 x crew 4.00. AMP10 3 man British Caique crew 1.17. AMP11 3 man German crew for Greek Caique 1.17. AMP12 German Pioneerlandungsboot 40 with 4 crew & Flak 38.carries 2 Tanks 16.95. AMP13 German Vorpostenboot armed Trawler 13 inches long 32.95. AMP14 USA Landing Craft Mechanised with 2 x 50 cal gunners 7.50. AMP15 British Armed Motor Launch with 8 crew 2 x Vikers K, 40mm & 20mm cannon 16.95. These items can be ordered from their US distributor, but they want $2 for a catelogue: Combined Arms Inc., 5132 E. Princess Anne Road, Norfolk, Virginia 23502 Tel/Fax 757-857-7698 (Mobile 757-286-0815) Business Hours: Mon - Sat 9am - 6pm (Eastern Standard Time) Email: combined_arms@yahoo.com Harold Stockton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: Modeling a somewhat accurate 1/72 scale 3"/21 for an S/C It is a pleasure to see Shane Weier and Harold Sockton ( and hopefully others ) respond to the matter of the 110 Ft. Submarine Chasers (S/C) in WW 1. My professional career was one of not only sharing information, but of getting others involved to come forward and do the same. Thank you Shane, Harold, et al. Whether we realize it or not, we all benefit from not letting history wither on the vine. As the philosopher Santana put it, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it". How little we realize the extent to which events are shaped by unseen pet personal political policies, the S/C procurement being a good case in point. Now for a little nitty-gritty From what I gather, "chasing" a submarinee in WW 1 was not a very efficient operation. The S/C's role developed into detecting, even with primitive inflated submerged balloons (which later became hydrophones ) that responded to ever-so-slight variations of hydrostatic pressure caused by a sub's propellors and attacking with depth charges and calling in faster destroyers with their larger inventory of larger depth charges. The detection procedure consisted of 3 S/C keeping station in a line abreast some distance apart, with all engines shut down, and listening to the baloons or hydrophones. If a sub were detected, the S/C would haul in the listening gear while triangulate the reported bearings of the 3 S/C, and fire up the engines and head for the plotted point, shut down the engines, and deploy the listening gear. Meanwhile the target was moving in an unpredictable manner. This was not a "real time" procedure, it was listen, move, stop and listen, move, etc. I suppose you could call this chasing (sort of), but harassing would be a better term, because in this manner the sub's attention was totally devoted to the actions of the S/C, allowing the sub's intended victims to make a run for it. But "harasser" lacks the pizzazz of "chaser". The S/C rarely had a visual contact with a sub, or slugged it out with one, on the surface. That's still true today, as evidenced by the lack of cannon on modern subs, whose mission is less one of combat and more of missle launching. However, the efforts of the WW 1 110 Ft. S/C ultimately led to the development of Sonar and other highly sophisticated anti submarine warfare technology of today, where stealth is still a submarine's enabling characteristic. Apparently the administrative admirals of 1916 or so, who tended to be battlewagon boys, thought that a navy should be a fighting navy which would aim big guns at a visible enemy, in steel ships (the S/C were wooden vessels). Naval aircraft and aircraft carrier development met with similar resistance and underappreciation of their potential in the 1920s and 1930s. Ensuing world events have vindicated the tenacity of the Roosevelts (even though the Roosevelts were instrumental in the process). Other SMML people, be they submarine afficianados or surface ship fans, are invited to contribute to this thread, as Shane, Harold, and others have done so well. We all benfit, especially when differing points of view are postulated. Welcome aboard !!!!!! Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: Armada Scale Models - HMS Vega Andy The kit was manufactured in Canada but, as far as I am aware, is no longer in production - it is certainly not on White Ensigns list anymore. There was a very good two part article in the magazine 'Military in Scale' back in May/June 1998 (contact me off list with your postal address if you would like a copy) and all reviews I have seen indicate it is accurate. I have a kit myself, as yet unbuilt, and this gives the website address www.customdio.com and e-mail bkauffma@mb.sympatico.ca if you would like to try and contact them. Regards Les Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "william k code" Subject: S-boats Hello list, Say a while back there was a piece of artwork I saw on a new S-boat in 1/72 scale from revell of germany.. I believe it to be a late war S-100 armored bridge and inclosed torpedo tubes... Any word on a release date?? cheers Bill Code -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Armada Scale Models and S-boats Armada Scale Models folded some time ago. Then Steve Wiper wrote: >> Big fast power boats, with GUNS!!! That and power tools, What more could a man ask for? << Ummmm, Steve....does Tammy read SMML....?? Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: HMS Vega Andy Jones asked - >> Does anyone know anything about the availability of the 1/350th scale V and W class HMS Vega by Armada Scale Models. I must admit that this is one that has passed me by before but I would be interested in laying my hands on one. Is it available anywhere and if so is any good? << Hi Andy - I picked that one up about a year and a half ago in a local shop. I'd just learned that Armada was going out of business, so I knew it would become very hard to find. I'm in the process of doing it "as built" and the overall quality is quite high, on the level of Classic Warships. Instructions are well done, too. The kit was designed by Jon Warneke and the photoetch by Ted Paris of Commander Series Models. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: FAA Aircraft Hi DW I believe that Airfix did do a 1/48 Buccaneer in RN FAA markings (possibly an all over blue scheme). The Buccaneer was originally ordered for the RN not the RAF, the poor RAF were 'forced' to buy Bucc's later. I believe the tail hook and wing folds were standard on the RAF examples, certainly the examples used in the Gulf War still had wing folds and tail hooks. The air break can be opened, well I believe it can. Certainly on the 1/72 example the tail air break could be opened. A friend was saying that the RN is building two new conventional carriers, possibly the vertical take of plane being developed by Boeing(?) is supposed to be one type? well that's all I know... regards Simon Wolff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Chuck Messer" Subject: Re: Heller HMS Hood I understand from the HMS Hood website (I think) that Heller's mold for the Hood was damaged fairly early on during its production. If that is the case, then Heller's done with that kit. Of course, if anyone knows anything to the contrary, that could be good news for those tired of waiting for ICM (or Godot). The old Aurora Skipjack, eh? That would be nice to see on the shelves. Chuck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Is this hobby slowly disappearing? >> I just want to let you all know that I'm 16 years old and I am scratchbuilding a 192 scale Titanic. I live in Washington state and there is only 1 hobby shop within 30 miles- and it's a train hobby shop. No, I don't think that this hobby is disappearing, it's just hard to find books and information on ship modeling. << Way to go Jessi !!! It is youngsters like yourself that are going to keep this hobby going. And 'arnt you the ambitious one. If your parents will allow, call me if you need help with reference and ideas on building this project. I hope your friends are interested in this sort of thing. Steve Wiper www.classicwarships.com (520)748-2992 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "larsenal" Subject: Heller kits Hello! Just a quick note about a question someone asked about the possibility of petitioning Heller for the re-release of their Hood, Illustrious. If I remember well Heller responded some months ago that a possible re-issue of these old models could be envisioned but not before 2-3 years. Quite frustrating... Best regards, Jacques Druel L'Arsenal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: NNTModell@t-online.de (nnt) Subject: Re: WSW/B-Resina kit vendors WSW and B-Resina kits are also permanently stocked by NNT.You can give us a try. Norbert Thiel (NNT) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: New Books Arriving Two new books arriving this week: From Chatham Publishing: NAVAL CAMOUFLAGE 1914-1945 David Williams (aiuthor of Liners in Battledress), has written this, the most comprehensive study to date of naval camouflage. The core of this book is a listing of all the major patterns and schemes, with their colours, charachteristics and function. Wherever possible, each is illustrated with at least one photograph or the approved pattern drawing. It is suggested that this will become THE standard reference work on nthe subject 256pp, 320 halftones plus 8pp full colour 40.00 Pounds From Fan Publications: HMS HERMES 1923 and 1959 McCart, h/b, 192pp, 128 b+w photos, 7 full colour photos, 24.00 Pounds Orders now being cheerfully taken. Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Bill Gruner Subject: KAGA 1/200 plans, new OCT. UPDATE We have just received the excellent all-new Miyukikai (Japan) 1/200 scale plans for Japanese aircraft carrier KAGA. As you know, information on this ship is very scarce. These are well detailed plans, 3 big sheets + extra detail sheets. Price is $60.00 + shipping. Our new October 2001 UPDATE is now posted on our website, our biggest ever. included are many new offerings from WEM, H-P Models in Germany, and Combrig from Russia. Also new US Navy kits from JAG will soon be here - Austin, Raleigh, Newport and Anchorage. Lots of pre-owned and new naval books. Thanks, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: stillmo@mb.sympatico.ca Subject: Re: Andy Jones: Re 350th Scale HMS VEGA..... HI ANDY, Ray here from Canada. The kits are very very rare now, oop, as not many were made. I have one intact HMS VEGA complete with photo etch set, for sale, at $125.00 US, Firm. Plus shipping. Original box, instructions, nuthin missing. Let me know RDBean -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume