Subject: SMML VOL 1420 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 00:08:49 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: HMS Illustrious - 11 Nov 40 2: HMS Liverpool 3: LCAC in 1/72 or 1/285 4: Re: Colony Class Frigate vs.DMS USS Caine 5: Norfolk Sights 6: Battleship New Jersey open for tours, read our website, my lists 7: Re: LCAC 8: Re: Parts, PE and Outerspace Portals 9: Re: Norfolk Points of Interest 10: RN colours for Capital Ships in the 1950's 11: Re: Taranto/Caine Mutiny 12: LCAC Kits 13: Re: Norfolk 14: USS CAINE 15: what sank the Kursk 16: LCAC Hovercraft models 17: PC 1261 WWII 18: Re: New Jersey Museum 19: Re: Graf Zeppelin 20: Re: Norfolk....Harbor Tours... 21: Salisbury and Rangtiki 22: Re: Tony's Sea Stories 23: Re: Me109T -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Sovremenny book for sale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: HMS Illustrious - 11 Nov 40 Hi all, Think this has been asked before but I can't find it so please humour me. What is the perceived knowledge of this ship's camouflage scheme for the Taronto raid? I have seen one "late 40" photo, starboard side, which appears to show a single colour with limited darker countershading. 507B on 507C? Was the flight deck 507A or would it have been over painted in PB10? All help appreciated. John Sutherland Wellington, NZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Raymond Guy" Subject: HMS Liverpool G'Day to you in Oz hello to the rest of you, and howzitt from South Africa. Have just recently joined your esteemed ranks and have read with interest the multidimensional abilities of PE parts as I am about to adventure into that realm.I think a lot of you guys have got minature black holes in your homes as those of you acquianted with astronomy will know they can swallow anything within reach! Back to the serious stuff. I am building 1:128 static scale model of the Town Class Cruiser HMS Liverpool as she was prior to scrapping. Whilst there is plenty of information available regarding her state after launching and some subsequent mods during WW 11 the information available on post-war mods seems to be in short supply.Raven and Roberts book on British Cruisers of World War Two is informative, but obviously unlike the Anatomy of The Ship Series does not have detailed drawings of lattice masts or radar equipment etc. I have the Belfast Anatomy of The Ship which is very helpful in many respects but does not offer all the solutions to my predicament. If anyone out there can assist me I would be sincerely appreciative. A word of caution to anyone under taking a project similar to my own, I purchased the Fleetscale model hull with all the fittings available believing them to be of a fairly high standard, granted some are excellent ,whilst others can only be described as junk! The funnels supplied are of solid resin and do not look realistic, the 4" HA gun turrets lack detail around the shield area where the gun barrels are recessed, the standard of the white metal gun barrels is not good either.I am seriously considering machining my own barrels from brass in order to achieve the required standard. To be fair the fittings are supplied with a working model in mind and not a static model of exhibition standard.If you are looking for quality beware of the Sirmar range ,here again the standard varies considerably, I bought six four barrelled pom-pom kits from them. The body of the gun is made from solid resin and the barrels from white metal and the detailing is appalling unfortunately a complete waste of money. The old story, caveat emptor . Regards Ray -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Ralph Batykefer" Subject: LCAC in 1/72 or 1/285 Hello Air Cushion Enthusiasts, I too am planning a 1/72 LCAC for a diorama, but I did not think a cottage industry would be interested in putting so much resin into that large of a kit. I think the cost would be very high... Actually it warrents itself to using vacuform, resin, and photoetch to make an affordable kit. When you consider the number of interested buyers with the cost of the kit it seemed somewhat of a risk, but maybe the resin companies would have a better idea about this concept. With the mixed media required to make the kit of good quality, I think it would be attractive, but expensive. I know of one person already planning to build a working R/C model in 1/96 to go with a working Whidbey Island LSD! That will be an awesome project! I agree that a 1/285 kit would work well with the war gamers because there is a large surplus of vehicles to put on board already available. In fact I already have collected (over the years) enough 1/285 to make a Marine group for a Tarawa class ship... LCAC would be very nice in that scale and still not too expensive to produce and market. Again, it really has to be evaluated by the cottage industries. I'm interested, but I love amphib groups and air cushion vehicles... IHS, Ralph -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: Re: Colony Class Frigate vs.DMS USS Caine I don't want to sound nitpicking because like everyone else I enjoy Tony Ireland's tales immensely. However, the fictional USS "Caine" in Herman Wouk's "The Caine Mutiny" is a DMS (destroyer mine sweeper) converted from a flushdeck/four pipe destroyer and not a DE. I can't imagine that there is any subscriber to this list who has not read "The Caine Mutiny" but if there is, beg, borrow or steal a copy as a matter of urgency and enjoy what is one of the finest pices of naval fiction ever written. Harold Lincoln -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: MIKE.LEONARD@customs.treas.gov Subject: Norfolk Sights Werner asked >> This may sound a bit strange, but what's to see in Norfolk, VA. Or to be more precise, are there going to be any ships in port in mid December or is basically everything at sea at the moment? << When I was there last month the bases were not admitting civilian visitors. Ship "open house" tours have been discontinued until further notice. But as Kurt pointed out, harbor tour boats do still pass in the vicinity of the Norfolk Naval Station. >> Battleship Wisconsin is there too, right? << Admission is free, and so is admission to the Hampton Roads Naval Museum, next door. The Mariners Museum in Newport News is well worth a visit (but charges a fee). The Virginia War Memorial Museum, also in Newport News, isn't too bad either. Admission fee is $2. The Portsmouth Naval Shipyard Museum is small but I think the admission is only a dollar. There's a preserved lightship nearby, too. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Battleship New Jersey open for tours, read our website, my lists Fer cryin' out loud, doesn't anyone keep bookmarks? If you'd check the Battleship New Jersey Historical Museum Society site, you'd find that the Big J has been open as a museum on the Camden waterfront since 15 October 2001. My companion-at-HTML and fellow SMMLie Dave Wells was there and he has posted some nice photos of our favorite ship. I mean, Dave and I work hard on that site, and it hurts me that our fellow ship enthusiasts don't have it at the top of their lists. (Sigh.) (Long, drawn-out, dejected sigh.) (Tear of disappointment wiped from cheek.) (Yes, we know the site needs an update now that she is a museum.) Further, if you want to know about museums, I maintain three lists, one each of US maritime museums, worldwide maritime museums, and worldwide aviation museums. They can be found at: http://www.bb62museum.org/usnavmus.html http://www.bb62museum.org/wrldnmus.html http://www.bb62museum.org/airmus.html If you don't have them bookmarked do so. I've been working on them for years, and I do my best to keep them up-to-date and complete. I wouldn't want all my hard work to be in vain. (Another sigh, quieter this time.) I'm gonna go work on a model to cheer myself up. That or pet my cats. Joe Poutre Co-webmaster, Battleship New Jersey Historical Museum Society http://www.bb62museum.org/ Member, US National Official Monster Raving Loony Party USNOMRLP candidate for Senator from New Jersey, 2002 http://usloonyparty.tripod.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: LCAC >> Peter VanBuren said something about LCAC's being "piloted " as if they were aircraft, although flying very low. While I do not necessarily disagree, US Navy flying officers refer to the guys who drive the ships into harbor as "pilots", and themselves as "Naval Aviators". Just the distinction of driving a ship vs. flying onto and off of the pitching deck of a carrier out of sight of land.... << Navy officers trained to command LCACs are indeed Pilots in the aviation meaning, as they are issued wings! The training syllabus is different, as they don't learn to fly T-2s, A-4s or T-45s, but they do have their own avaitors school according to a History Channel episode of Modern marvels on a few months ago -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Re: Parts, PE and Outerspace Portals I have discovered where missing decals go - fingertips. Somehow, they are more attracted to our fingers than to the model. I discovered this while decaling my SC-1 (it's a naval plane!) It seemed that each time my fingers even approached the model to adjust their position the decals would jump off the model. I'm not certain there's a solution to this troubling phenomenon, but you should check your fingers after decaling and before washing. As for the carpet monster, I'm tearing him out of my new hobby room and replacing with seamless, patternless, light-colored, smooth-textured, solvent-resistant flooring, which will be vacuumed before each modeling session. I'm tired of scratching replacement bits only to find them after the model is completed. Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: aandmblevins@att.net Subject: Re: Norfolk Points of Interest Do not miss the Mariners Museum in Newport News right next to Norfolk, nor the Newport News Shipbuilding Company where aircraft carriers and other ships are built. Both are fascinating places. Al Blevins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Richard Sweeney Subject: RN colours for Capital Ships in the 1950's Hello, I have a question about the Colours used on Royal Navy Capital Ships of the 1950's. What were they? The hulls appear to be a light grey colour if so Which colour was it and What colours were the decks. Also what coulours were used below the Waterline? Thank You. Richard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Taranto/Caine Mutiny >> And were there no Fighter planes in Italy When the British attacked the Italian fleet at Taranto with the same planes? << Ummm, not a good comparison. Yes, of course there were fighter planes in Italy, but the British attack on Taranto was a surprise attack, at night. >> BTW - Herman Wouk's 'The Caine Mutiny' is set in a D.E. similar to HMS Cayman, also in a sort of Perfect Storm like our mid-Atlantic one. << It's been years since I read The Caine Mutiny, but I seem to recall that the USS CAINE was supposed to be a DMS--destroyer minesweeper--converted from a 4-stack destroyer. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: thorstenwahl@t-online.de (Wahl, Thorsten) Subject: LCAC Kits Peter VanBuren suggested the following: >> With the Dragon assault carriers still available, and with the new Revell Germany ESSEX, there is room in the market for a high-quality aftermarket resin LCAC that could be sold, say, by WEM, the same way they sell aftermarket aircraft << I´m all for it - either 1/700th or 1/350th scale. So how about all of you interested parties let yourselves be heard? Maybe we can convince Caroline? After all Peter Mispelkamp got the show on the road with quite an esoteric subject (no offense, Peter!) - the Graf Zeppelin planes. There surely is a market for LCACs??? Thors ´At least we don´t name our ships for our mothers-in-law.´ USS Reuben James to HMS Battleaxe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Kenneth Perry Subject: Re: Norfolk >> If you are willing to drive south from Norfolk to Wilmington, North Carolina (about a 6 hour drive), the USS North Carolina is on display there, very nicely preserved, and of course the only one of her class anywhere. Have a great time! << You better call them before driving down to Wilmington, the local news here in Carolina tells us they are going to be towing the USS North Carolina up to the shipyard in Norfolk for some refurbishing sometime in the near future. They say this will take several years to do. Can you believe they estimate as many as eight years? Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: nd.ward@virgin.net Subject: USS CAINE Although fictional, the USS Caine was actually a DMS, a converted WW1 4-piper flush decker, one funnel removed, to a high speed minesweeper. Dave Ward -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: what sank the Kursk I'm not sure how many aussie's watched SBS last night competing against the soccer, but there was an interesting BBC program on what could have happened to the Kursk. Back in the 50' or 60's the British were using a torpedo using HTP, hydrogen peroxide in their torpedoes, one day while in port the HMS Sidon had a torpedo blow the warhead out of the sub & sink the sub. An investigation never found out why the HTP caused the acident & so HTP was withdrawn from the torpedo, i think thay called it the "fancy" torpedo. The russians still use HTP in their torp's & if a pipe did break carrying HTP it releases the gas & HTP reacts with brass & copper & then expands nearly 5,000 times & expands the torpedo till it blows apart. The Sidon was lucky well except for the 13 that lost their lives it only blew a big hole in the bow, but the exploding torpedo in the kursk must have started a fire which heated the front torpedo room till all the other warheads exploded..about 2 1/4 - 2 1/2 minutes after the 1st minor explosion... now what caused the HTP gas to leak, well it seems that if a torpedo's motor is actived while out of water it could heat the pipes inside that could cause a pipe to break, which they think happened to the Sidon & torpedo's motors could be activated by mistake.. All this was picked up a ground monotoring station in england & they did research on the types of different things register on their earth movement equipment & they ruled out collisions as that didnt match their print outs of the explosions, so now the Russians are now looking that HTP may have been resonsible for the accident, it was a very informative program -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Stephen Allen Subject: LCAC Hovercraft models You can actually buy a real live working LCAC in 1/35 scale: http://www.kinetics.net/lcac.htm regards steve -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: WVeigele@aol.com Subject: PC 1261 WWII Yes, PC 1261 was the first US Naval vessel sunk on D-Day at Normandy. An account is given in the book "PC Patrol Craft of World War II." Information and a link to the book is on the website www.astralpublishing.com. The Patrol Craft Sailors Association (ww2pcsa.org) has a list of crew members of PC 1261. Jim Heywood, the Membership Sec. could supply information. His email address is jimheywood@sdrc.com. Bill Veigele -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: annobon4@aol.com Subject: Re: New Jersey Museum Hi Concerning the New Jersey Museum. The Museum opened about a week ago. What is opened to the public is this. First you travel in a tour group of about 10-20 people. You can't walk any where you want. The tour covers the main deck a couple decks above the the main deck including the Bridge. Also a couple of decks below. Alot of living quarters such as for Admiral, Captain,Officers, Petty Officers,and the enlisted. The Combat Engagement Center is opened. Also is the Ward Room, Crews Mess and you get to go on the bridge. For Norfolk if you go on the tour bus look for the $14 tour which includes a ticket for the Wisconsin. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Edd Pflum Subject: Re: Graf Zeppelin D.P writes: >> American carrier planes are not my specality but are you sure that Helldiver was a biplane??? << The Curtiss SBC "Helldiver" was in fact a biplane, the later Curtiss SB2C "Helldiver" was the late-WW2 monoplane. The author of "Dauntless Helldivers" (name forgotten) opined the Helldiver was in many ways inferior to the Douglas SBD "Dauntless" it replaced. SBC's were in service at the start of WW2, but only as trainers, AFAIR. Also, my (weak) memory recalls a plan to develop ann inward retracting gear for the Bf-109 for carrier use, later dropped when the ship failed to materialize (but maybe I dreamed this!) Edd -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: stillmo@mb.sympatico.ca Subject: Re: Norfolk....Harbor Tours... Both Kurt and I have been to Norfolk several times....heres my slant......The majority of the Harbor Tours (Carrie B ) may not even be operating from the Norfolk Waterside that time of year. The rather expensive Dinner Cruise ship, Spirit of Norfolk, may run year round---the hotel brochures will fill you in on all of these. Be advised that the Elizabeth River Boat tour has been severely shortened by Navy restrictions as the inner harbor which is very narrow and usually full of assorted ships is no longer accessable at this time. Even so if the SofN is running past the carrier piers, they will be at a greater distance than years past, so, even though the carriers are big, there are lots of other pierside ships that will need a good telephoto to pull them in. The bases themselves will be in a lock down and closed to any kind of tourbus...... From the civilian Waterside area, you can get a good view and even some decent shots of the Metro Machine Yards and Ship Repair drydocks which usually have something naval high and dry with assorted types nested alongside. As I am planning a photo pilgrammage in August of next year, it should be very interesting to see whats accessible even in the summertime. As previous posting indicated, there is still lots to see as far as museums and museum ships and if you love tugs, well, they parade around all the time.......good luck and let us know how you did. RDB Winnipeg, Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: Salisbury and Rangtiki Hi all: I'm looking for information and hopefully a picture of a ship named Salisbury which took a distant relative out to New Zealand from the UK in 1875. She had a sister ship, the Rangtiki. Shipping line? Builder? Any information will be great. Also, does anyone know what the term 'iron-puddler' means when referring to someone's job in a shipyard? Gad, I hope it's not some unprintable slang term. Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Darshan Ward" Subject: Re: Tony's Sea Stories I have enjoyed very much reading the ongoing saga of Sub-Lieutenant Ireland RNR and the misadventures of HMS Cayman circa 1946. Not to mention the miscellaneous tidbits thrown in for extra colour, pity the poor Howe's cmdr. By the way, what was the other near drowning experience, if you'll excuse my curiosity. More PLEASE..... Best Wishes for Thanksgiving to all, especially to Tony. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Dirk Emmermacher" Subject: Re: Me109T Hello Richard, under http://www.adlertag.de/flugzeuge/me109t.html you will a pic of this plane. Hope it helps. Best regards. Dirk Emmermacher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Sovremenny book for sale We just received a shipment of the discontinued book by Concord Press: Slava, Udaloy and Sovremenny, Steven J Zaloga, Concord Publications Company, Hong Kong, 1992. ISBN 962-361-034-3 This fine volume is 64 pages, 8 of which are in full color, 22 b&w pages and 3 color pages are dedicated specifically to the Sovremenny class, and many of the other pages show equipment common to all three. Each page has three or four small photos or is a full sheet photo of the ship and its equipment. This volume sells for $14.95. AAA Hobby has several of these available for the price of $15.00, postage (about $2.00) included to the US. A small preview is available at http://www.aaahobby.com/CP1034.htm James Corley AAA Hobby Supply email: aaahobby@earthlink.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume