Subject: SMML VOL 1457 Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 00:56:34 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Plans to scale 2: Re: Revell's USS BOSTON 3: Greetings 4: Clarification on Ivory ships 5: Question on repairing ivory carved items from World War II 6: Re: Modern upgrade parts 7: Ivory models 8: Re: Question on repairing ivory carved items from World War II 9: Ivory ship Model repair 10: conserving ivory ship models 11: Banner Arizona 12: Re: Lindberg "War of Independence Schooner" 13: Re: Question on repairing ivory carved items from World War II 14: Re: Plans to scale, CAUTION! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Plans to scale >> I want to echo a very important point that someone has already mentioned on this board. DON'T RELY ON STANDARD PHOTOCOPIERS TO ACCURATELY REPRODUCE SCALE DRAWINGS! Take your drawings to an architectural supply shop for accurate scale reproduction. These guys have the expertise and specialized equipment to do the job right. Look in your phone book under architectural supplies. Every town has someone there who does blueprint reproduction for local engineers and architects. It will cost a bit more, but rest assured your plans will be accurate, and to scale. << Certainly a blueprint copier will do an accurate job. and for larger prints is a real convenience over cutting and pasting smaller sections of a print. However, that said, not all office copiers are inaccurate. Many of the modern ones do a quite acceptable job, particularly the "professional" ones as opposed to the ones you pick up a the local office supply superstore. As a simple cross check, I lay out "X" and "Y" axis lines on every drawing I reproduce on my office machine. The lines have a fixed length distance marked off, like 5 inches or something convenient. I can then easily check the reduced marks on the copy to ensure that the reduction was accurate. A greater problem is that some cheaper machines do not reduce the same in both axis: the "X" or lateral scale is stretched in the travel of the lamp and mirror assembly. A good machine should be accurate there too. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: annobon4@aol.com Subject: Re: Revell's USS BOSTON Hi guys I agree God bless our armed forces and may they come soon. About the USS Boston kit.The kit is expensive to find perhaps Revell will reissue the kit under it's limited edition series like they have with others. I found that that the bridge is inaccurate so I scratchbuilt wall with window detail that can be called crude but reflects the ship as she appeared in late 1955 from New York Shipbuilding Corp. Yes it can be made into a nice kit. I bought one about 5 years ago at a model flea market for $35.00 or so. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Subject: Greetings Hi All May I wish ALL members and ALL your families the complements of the Season, and a better 2002. Oh, for more hours in the day! Yours "Aye" John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "S Brejnak" Subject: Clarification on Ivory ships There I go listening to the wife again :) she had the info wrong. The ships are 200 years old and were carved by french prisoners. As to value they are irreplacable I'm sure. The doctor that owns them is the one that broke them and if you've ever seen a grown man cry well it isn't pretty. I was actually wanting to go the exotic route and use the same adhesives the makers use. Well not exactly but try to find out what kinds of adhesives they would use 200 years ago. I.e. do tree saps sound too outlandish? Steve -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "John Rule" Subject: Question on repairing ivory carved items from World War II >> I was approached by a customer to repair an antique of a ship that was carved by a prisoner of war from World War 2. That is all I know of at this point. The item is made of ivory and I was informed that it is of great value. I was also told that another museum had carved ivory ships from this same era (1940's) I'm not sure which museum this could be weather it is the Smithsonian or a naval museum. I feel I may be out of my league on repairing an item such as this but wonder if anyone could assist me as to how to repair it or answer a few questions. Or does anyone have any ideas of any other museums that have items such as these that were carved by prisoners of war during the 40's that could assist me. << Firstly, what kind of ship is it? Are you sure you got the right war? Carving ships from bone or whalebone was a common pastime of French prisoners of war during the Napoleonic Wars. These models can be exceptionally well detailed, and many museums have examples of the work. The Glasgow Museum of Transport in Scotland has many examples for instance. The ships are obviously of the sailing variety. The ones I have seen are white or natural bone colour and are held together with copper rivets. I haven't heard of similar work being undertaken in WWII and would doubt POW's would have had ready access to ivory. If it turns out that the ship was made during the Napoleonic or other war of that period I would imagine it would certainly be of some value. Please let us know what type of ship is represented. Sincerely, John Rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Modern upgrade parts I can never find the parts I need without spending a fortune for just a few parts on the Skywave Modern Weapons series kits. Buy yourself an Ace Resin kit and make your own duplicate parts. I now a complete set of molds I use for my own personal use. In the end it save a lot of time and money searching for the parts I want for my modern naval vessels. And don't let anyone lay that copyright infringement guilt trip on you either. As long as you make the parts for your own personal use only, you're okay. Rusty White 2003 IPMS/USA National Convention Chairman OKC IN 2003! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Ivory models Hi Steve I can't remember ivory items carved by WWII POW, are we talking real elephant ivory here? this stuff has always been so expensive it is hard to imagine that a POW had access to this material... If it's real ivory, be very careful though, ivory is in fact completely prohibited to use (Convention of Washington, protection of the wildlife). Only existing stocks can be used and each use of this must be documentated. So for any ivory you use, you have to prove it came from a legitimate source. Even then you have to have special permits... I have seen a guy on tv once who build and restaured ivory models, and he had all the permits and the only ivory he was allowed to use where old already carved or used pieces, new or complete tooth were completely out of the question. I believe this guy worked around or in Mystic Seaport. Even ivory from elefants killed because the herds were too large to sustain in the reservations is forbidden, it has to be destroyed! reason behind this is to completely eliminate the market for ivory, so poaching will be eradicated. If you completely forbid the use of ivory it is very hard for potential collectors and traders to get rid of their objects/art/carvery in a legitimate way. I know of POW-models in bone and ivory (usually from whales etc...) carved by POW during the Napoleonic wars. I have seen a magnificent first rater in the Science Museum in London, the model was incredible detailled, down to the furniture in the captains cabin (they had installed endoscopes to see it) and all build from sheepbone, pieces no bigger than 4 cm were used for this model which was over a meter long. Anyway before accepting I would advise you to inform yourself very good about the do's and dont's in your country regarding ivory! Wienne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Ron and Louise Crawford Subject: Re: Question on repairing ivory carved items from World War II Ivory or even the more common baleen would be rather unusual media for WWII POWs. Two suggestions. One would be to contact the conservators of museums like Mystic Seaport in CT that have holdings of seafarers carvings left over from the age of whaling. The other would be to hunt down the conservators' bulletin board on the Web and either post a question or do a search of their archives. Contact me privately if you have a problem finding it. The general problem with ivory carvings is deterioration of the cements used and of the "India" inks used to color them. They should be kept dry, reasonably cool, and out of direct sunlight. Ron Crawford -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Daniel H Jones Subject: Ivory ship Model repair >> I was approached by a customer to repair an antique of a ship that was carved by a prisoner of war from World War 2. << This message was also posted on Steelnavy - and has since been corrected (Napoleonic War period - not WW II era model). I am posting my reply again here as the info may be of interest to others not familiar with these models. During the Napoleonic Wars French prisoners languished for many years in captivity and in order to better their lot were allowed to construct models and sell them. These models were made from scraps of bone, horn, and whatever else they could acquire. The models varied in quality depending on the skills of the builder and the materials he could acquire. They are nearly priceless collectors items these days. Christies has offered some of them for auction in recent years - values estimated from 15k up to 35k (GBP - not Dollars). DO NOT attempt to make any repairs until you acquire and read a book called "Prisoner of War Models 1775-1825" by Ewart Freeston (Conways 1987). This is essential as a first step as the book describes the models and the methods and materials used in their construction. In order to restore a model of this type it is necessary to follow the original methods (a restoration - rather than just a repair). I think it would also be advisable for your client to contact Christies - they have sold many of these models and undoubtedly know of someone who would be quaified to undertake the restoration. Under NO ACCOUNT should you try to reassemble the model using "superglue" or other modern methods or materials - as it will destroy the value of the piece. The book I have suggested is out of print - but there are several copies for sale on line at the moment - ranging in price from about $15.00 upwards. It is not hard to find! If you do not wish to purchase a copy you can obtain the use of one through inter-library loan. Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: conserving ivory ship models Here are two possibilities for the information you requested. The Ventura museum does have POW ivory and bone models in its collection, though they are from well before WWII. The Getty is a major art conservation center and would know how to repair ivory. Good luck. Ventura County Maritime Museum http://www.tfaoi.com/newsmu/nmus162.htm J. Paul Getty Museum http://www.getty.edu/ Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER unique wood sculpture and fine scale models www.walruscarpenter.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Tom & Laura Morgan Subject: Banner Arizona I just received my Banner 350 scale Arizona and to my inexperienced eyes it looks pretty nice. If anyone out there has started on one and could point me in the direction of some good reference material, it would be appreciated. I plan to get the GMM PE accessories for it, but would be interested in any other sources which will help me make it an outstanding model. Thanks, Tom Morgan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Bill & Kaja Michaels" Subject: Re: Lindberg "War of Independence Schooner" This Lindberg kit is a re-issue of the old Pyro model of the 1830s US Revenue Cutter Roger B. Taney. It is supposed to be one of Pyro's best efforts, in terms of fidelity to scale and level of detail. (And, yes, I do have it listed on my USCG model kit list!) Bill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Question on repairing ivory carved items from World War II >> I was approached by a customer to repair an antique of a ship that was carved by a prisoner of war from World War 2. That is all I know of at this point. The item is made of ivory and I was informed that it is of great value. I was also told that another museum had carved ivory ships from this same era (1940s) I'm not sure which museum this could be weather it is the Smithsonian or a naval museum. I feel I may be out of my league on repairing an item such as this but wonder if anyone could assist me as to how to repair it or answer a few questions. Or does anyone have any ideas of any other museums that have items such as these that were carved by prisoners of war during the 40's that could assist me. << Steve, I would suggest you give Robert Sumrall at the US Naval Academy a call. He is the head of the model dept. for that museum and does some restoration work. He may tell you what glues to use. Another thing. I would really verify when this model was made. It may actually be one of the 17th century prisoner of war bone models, and the person who gave it to you may not know that. They are worth a fortune. Many thousands of $! Good Luck, Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: Plans to scale, CAUTION! >> I want to echo a very important point that someone has already mentioned on this board. DON'T RELY ON STANDARD PHOTOCOPIERS TO ACCURATELY REPRODUCE SCALE DRAWINGS! Take your drawings to an architectural supply shop for accurate scale reproduction. These guys have the expertise and specialized equipment to do the job right. Look in your phone book under architectural supplies. Every town has someone there who does blueprint reproduction for local engineers and architects. It will cost a bit more, but rest assured your plans will be accurate, and to scale. << The problem you talk about comes when the 15 cent copier in the corner at Wal-Mart or Eckerds is used. If you copy on a professional high quality business copier, the perspective error doesn't happen ... I didn't even use the copier at work because it had this problem. I have not noticed any errors in plans I have produced myself, and therefore know what the proper dimensions should be, when I have needed to use a copier to enlarge them larger than my printer will allow (11x17). Of course, I am not using the ever-popular copier-fax-phone-scanner, but rather a 5 thousand dollar machine down at the local MBE or Kinkos. I can print decals on their 15 thousand dollar color laser copier, and can get the little 1/144 data plates readable when I shoot a 1/48 sheet at 25%, and they still "look" in proper perspective. I guess it all depends on what you mean by "standard photocopier." A&E-Triangle isn't the only shop with good quality copiers. No need to pay over a dollar for a copy, when the best machine at Kinkos will do the job for dimes. James Corley AAA Hobby Supply email: aaahobby@earthlink.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume