Subject: SMML VOL 1464 Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 02:46:38 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Force H Sept 43 2: Camo scheme for Richelieu 3: Re: rigging material 4: Color Scheme of the Richelieu in Vietnam 5: Richelieu 6: Yamato question 7: Re: Rigging line 8: mag review World War 2 feb edition 9: Richelieu in 1946 10: Coast Guard Mission 11: Re: RIGGING LINE 12: Re: Rigging line 13: Re: Camo scheme for Richelieu 14: Lathes 15: Hull Lines 16: HMS Cayman, March 1946, sequel 17: my homepage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Order the BIG 3 now 2: Re: IJN Haruna plans? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Force H Sept 43 HI Guys and Giggles, Need some info again......my resources are a bit disparate on this one. Force H Aug-Sept 1943 at the beginning of the Salerno landings Composition of Force H at this time: All I can ascertain is that Nelson, Rodney and Formidable were together. What destroyers/ cruisers etc were attached? Incidentally, if you want to see what can be done with those Skytrex metal cast ship models have a peek at my latest effort: Alexandria June '41 featuring Ajax, Naiad and Kimberly (WEM model). It's on the SMMLie website. Cheers. Regards Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo kupu kaore e taea te karo (Te reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Jean-Paul Binot" Subject: Camo scheme for Richelieu According to Sarnet & Le Vaillant, Richelieu wore a late-war British-style camouflage from January 1945 till October 1946. A dark blue band on the otherwise light-gray hull; light gray superstructure and dark gray stack and turrets (main and secondary). I would imagine that the paints were supplied by the British and would match RN specs. The decks appear to have remained in US deck blue from the rebuilding in 1943 till October 46. The recently reprinted book by Dumas seems to support this (although both books disagree on details of other paint schemes worn by the battleship). Jean-Paul Binot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Jesse Sublett Subject: Re: rigging material I've been using guitar string for rigging on my 1:600 Thoroughbred USS New Ironsides, which had a whole lot of rigging after the sail rig was removed, many many lines being used to assist the six sets of small boat davits and the signal flag masts (please forgive my poor terminology grasp). It's easy to get, even if you're not a guitar player. Go to a music shop and ask for .008 E strings (they may go smaller, but that's the smallest I use, either on guitar or ship models). I don't trust my own abilities to use either sprue or fishing line. Guitar string looks tight when you want it tight, and you can bend it to look slack. The biggest problem (besides winding, which isn't really an option) is cutting to precise length. Regular cutters for brass wire and sprue won't do; you've got to have some good steel side cutters. BTW, if anyone has a good pic of a New Ironsides with this late-Civil War period rigging scheme (besides the one on the Thoroughbred site by Barry Maguire, which has a few errors but is really good), let me know, ok? Thanks. Jesse Sublett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: andy vu Subject: Color Scheme of the Richelieu in Vietnam According to the book "Richelieu" by Rene Sarnet and Eric Le Vaillant, the Richelieu was off the Cap St. Jacques in South Vietnam from Oct 3-1945 to the end of December 1945. She arrived at Singapore on January 1-1946. The battleship stayed off the Cap St. Jacques during that whole time, serving as a supply and hospital ship both for the expeditionary troups and the local French civilians, as well as to show off French military might. Several big ships came along, and these actually went further inside South Vietnam following the tributaries of the Mekong river until they reached Saigon. They were: The armoured cruiser "Gloire" (of the "La Galissonniere" class, about 11,000 tons,in gray overall, without the striking stripe camouflage worn during the world war), the cruiser "Le Suffren" (about 13,000 tons), the large destroyer "Le Terrible" (of the "Fantasque" class, about 3000 tons) and "le Triomphant" which looked rather like "Le Terrible". The book gave the following color scheme of the Richelieu: (a) The hull was light gray at the bow and stern, dark blue in the middle section. (b) The main upper structure was painted the same light blue (c) The back structure, with the smoke stack, all the 15'' and 6'' guns, the boats, boat cranes were dark gray . (d) The six little gun tubs on the two sides of the ship, and their double AA guns, were also dark gray. (e) It appeared to me that the decks were also painted light gray. Best wishes for 2002 to all SMMLies. Andy Vu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Chris & Lulu Langtree" Subject: Richelieu Hi Joe Richelieu was painted in a variant of the RN Admiralty standard A in April 1944. This included the blue panel but also the main turrets , the funnel structure and secondary armament were painted a dark grey. The panel was altered in January 1945 to a darker blue. She carried this scheme throughout the Indochina involvement before she left for France in December 1945. Sarnet and Le Vailalant's book has full details Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Yamato question Tamiya Modelling Magazine did an article on the Yamato and Musashi, using both the GMM and eduard PE-set, although not a very extended article, it does provide a list of inaccuracies in the kits and how to correct them. It is the latest number and I have seen it here still in the shops. Apart from these little problems there isn't very much to say about the Yamato-kit, it is an absolute stunner and the best ship kit I have. Worst problem area is the seam between the two deck parts. How to fill that one without comprimising detail is a hell of a job! Furthermore our own SMML-site has an article by Jens Brandall comparing the Eduard and the GMM PE-set on http://smmlonline.com/reviews/photo_etch/yamato_pe.html I have also both sets and can only agree with his conclusion! The AOTS book on the Yamato is also of enormous help in building the kit, only problem it wants you to go crazy on detailling the kit! Wienne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "David Griffith" Subject: Re: Rigging line Try going into your friendly local ladies' hairdresser and asking for some of the material that they use for doing hair extensions. It will have to be the man made material rather than the genuine human hair that is used in the really expensive salons. And of course black will be the colour you will need (I can't imagine there would be much call for grey hair extensions, somehow.) When fixed to the model it will tauten up with heat and does not need colouring. I also think that it is going to be finer than any readily available fishing line, but I'm willing to be corrected on this. I'm not sure which was greater, my embarrassment at explaining what I needed the hair for, or the young woman's astonishment at it! Anyhow, I asked for a very small bundle, just enough to do HMS Hood, and came out with enough to rig the whole bloody US Navy!! Regards David Griffith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: mag review World War 2 feb edition Not sure if some of you are buyers of this mag, but thought its a good one to have, so here's a review of the latest edition of: World war 2 by www.TheHistoryNet.com Feb 2002 edition This months edition covers: Personality: Capt Ed Dyess in action in Philipines early WW2, the Batan death March & his escape. Perspectives: The 1941 Carolina Maneuvers showed how unprepareed the US was for war. Battles: Fixed bayonets at Stuka Farm..About a canadian in the british army in Tunisia. Also covered sailors assault on Salerno, 4th Beach battalion. The 33rd infantry Div in the Curabello mountains in 1945. A failed attepmt to relieve the seige at leningrad.. How the NAzi British Free Corps was formed& under armament for the navy fans, The story of the USS Perch. This is a very good magazine & on some articles have some near full page colour paintings (good reference if doing models!) & loads of wonderful Black & white pictures. Also if you are a shopper, then all the tours & book sellers etc wouold drive your credit card bills through the roof, lol! But something that may be of interest you is that University of Illinois press is selling the Samulel Eliot Morison US NAVAL OPERATIONS IN WW2 in paper back for for about $22 - $25 each www.press.uillinois.edu i have a couple of these books that i picked up second hand ($60 aussie each i had to pay & that was cheap). well thought someone might be interested. I do not work or have or had any dealings with this company so i dont know how good they are. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "larsenal" Subject: Richelieu in 1946 Hello, In late 1946 Richelieu was repainted with ex German colors found in the Toulon harbour. At this moment she wore the following camouflage pattern: -From the first deck to the boot line: medium blue gray. -Above the first deck all superstructures are painted light gray - Exceptions to this color are the rear tower, 152 mm and 100 mm turrets that are painted dark gray. -Decks are natural wood (light shade) On turret 2 two V paths are painted in black, sharp end to the front. Best regards, Jacques Druel L'Arsenal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Coast Guard Mission Here's an article on the US Coast Guard's reorientation towards port security and anti-terrorism patrols: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54242-2002Jan2.html Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Ted0330@aol.com Subject: Re: RIGGING LINE I think 2 lb test would be more accurate than 8 lb- it was simply the smallest I could find. Where did you get the 2 lb? Ted -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: IAAFru2@aol.com Subject: Re: Rigging line I use jewelry wire (bead stringing Kind) you can buy a large roll of it for a couple of bucks, I found it at Michael's craft supply store. It works great and it is wire so it looks authentic hope this helps. George -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: GGeGratz@aol.com Subject: Re: Camo scheme for Richelieu Richelieu last painting scheme according to Robert Dumas book Le Richelieu is hull Medium blue grey, rest pale grey. cheers, George Gratz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: Lathes Okay, so has anyone ordered or seen the Clisby lathe that was brought up here on SMML a month or so ago? (http://www.clisby.com.au/) I'm thinking about one as a Christmas/Birthday gift to myself. Never used a lathe before, so this would be an inexpensive way to start out, and it'd be great to be able to turn brass masts and gun barrels without having to chuck the stuff in my Dremel or cordless drill. Devin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: Hull Lines Okay, I'm full of questions tonight. On the Floating Drydock page, in the plans section, they have Hull Line drawings. What exactly are these? Are these the plans that show the hull frame by frame? I'm wanting some references for the USS Yorktown (CV-5), so I can clean up the "pudgy" bow on the Blue Water Navy kit. Thanks, Devin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Tony Ireland" Subject: HMS Cayman, March 1946, sequel While we're in this festive season lull, perhaps I may mention a few incidents after the big mid-Atlantic storm when our Colony class frigate lay helpless for 36 hours, west of the Azores. In company with HMS 'St.Helena' and 'Dominica' we resumed course for Chesapeake Bay - gingerly at about 11 knots, until the seas went down. The continuing cloudy weather made sun and star sights impossible, so we three navigators collated our noon dead reckoning positions, using the clever short-range TBS 'walky-talky' radio we thought penetrated barely over the horizon. My night watch, from midnight to 4.0 a.m., was dreary, as I'd found six months earlier in 'Smilax' in the dead calm sea around Singapore, after the war-time urgency of listening to the Asdic 'ping', tensed for radar reports of possible surfaced subs or periscopes, etc.had ended. I'd learnt the hard way never to sit on the captain's high seat and watch the rosy-red gyro-compass bowl as it clicked hypnotically. The big bump on my forehead took days to subside... My oppo, Peter, who had sunk those three U-Boats in 24 hours, had a bright idea. He fished out his copy of the children's classic 'The Wind in the Willows' and during the First watch began reading bits of it over the TBS to his opposite numbers in our two sister ships. Hence, on the last night of the voyage, at about 1.0 a.m., I wanted to finish the story and kept my finger on the 'Press to Talk' button for 20 or 30 minutes as I read about the exploits of Mr Rat, Mole, Badger, and Toad of Toad Hall, et al. Big shock! As I released the button a loud, curt, officious voice intoned "..keep your present course and speed! Over!" I radioed back the composition of our little squadron, and our destination. "This is 'Midway', 'Midway', with destroyer escort, course 200 degrees true, speed 20 knots. We have been tracking you for two hours. Maintain your course and speed. We will pass clear of you 12 miles ahead." They were then over 60 miles away to the north. They'd been listening to the story, probably, I realised. She was a new - and the world's largest - aircraft carrier. Some days later I was walking past a bar on the outskirts of the huge Portsmouth naval base and saw, through the open upper part of a split-level door, a group of six U.S.N. Lieuts.J.G. sitting at a table just inside. One of them burst out, "This goddam Limey was going on about a bunch of rats and toads and badgers... What kind of a navy d'you call that?" I stopped, leaned over the door, and said pleasantly "I'm that goddammed Limey." "Waal, fer crissakes, come on in and have a drink!" Over a few beers they explained that they were from the escorting destroyers, and the carrier had been on a shake-down cruise up between Labrador and Greenland. They readily agreed to come back with me to HMS 'Cayman' to meet our officers. After the rigid Prohibition aboard their ships they were envious of the bar in our wardroom, and liked our whisky. But they showered praise on the bread we baked on board, explaining that their bread looked and tasted like cotton wool. After a pleasant stay, they departed clutching several loaves. We'd been surprised by signs of anti-British sentiment the previous days, as we de-ammunitioned ship and landed stores prior to eventually laying-up the ship on a mud-bank. It seemed to go back to the time when the carrier HMS 'Illustrious' was being repaired there after sustaining bomb damage in the Med. After enduring a lot of assaults by the locals, for whatever reason, the crew apparently went ashore en masse and caused a near-riot. It made things difficult for R.N. ships thereafter. Later on, the British Admiralty Delegation at 39 Wall Street, N.Y. surprised me by paying me a couple of months pay and inviting me to see a bit of the U.S. until my money ran out and I'd catch the 'Queen Mary' home. So I spent Easter with a cousin in Joliet, Illinois, who'd married a U.S.Army officer and gone there as a 'G.I.Bride'. Eventually I arrived one mid-afternoon at Pier 90, Manhattan, where the 'Queen Mary' towered over the wharf buildings. She was due to sail late that evening. But a bomb scare had led to a police cordon where I was told to come back later. So I went into a dockside bar for a quiet beer. I noticed a big, burly man eyeing me closely, studying the single gold braid stripe of an R.N.R. Sub.-Lieut. on my sleeve. He was fairly drunk, and insisted on buying me a beer. I learned that he'd just been demobilised from the U.S.Marine Corps, and had gone through hell from Guadalcanal to Iwojima. "You guys are doing a great job getting our people into Haifa, past those British bastards!" he muttered, with his face close to my ear. Then I twigged. He'd been staring closely at the ring of braid on my sleeve that was formed by two triangles. I realised that he, obviously a Jew, thought I must belong to a Jewish Navy helping to smuggle Holocaust survivors into Palestine. And if I wanted to get aboard the 'Q.M.' in one piece, discretion was advisable. So I muttered conspiratorially that our work was hush-hush, I could say nothing about it, and what would he like to drink? We kept up this drunken charade for several more rounds of drinks. The clock ticked away, and my cash was running out. I had exactly 40 cents left, for the four-day voyage. Finally I made to leave. He embraced me in a bear hug. As I walked through the crowded room, amid curious stares, he bellowed behind me "Go give those Britishers hell!" I hoped I'd get outside before someone yelled to him, "He IS a Britisher, you dope!" Back safely beside the vast wall of the liner's hull I was again stopped by a cop. "You gotta wait for the stiffs, see!" and he pointed to a pile of big stainless steel crates being carried slowly and laboriously up the gangway one by one. He explained that these were the coffins of Irish-Americans who'd insisted that they be buried back in the auld sod. It was now dark, growing cold, and I sniffed hungrily at the delicious aroma of cordon bleu cooking wafting from the ship's dining rooms close above me. But I was too late to get any dinner. I found that Peter and I were in the same cabin, luckily, which eased my penniless state. Apart from a few photos, I recall little of the 4-day voyage, as I slept most of the way home. An interesting contrast to our westward voyage in the 'Cayman'. In New York, Peter had introduced me to Cdr.Martyn Sherwood R.N. About 1936 he had sailed a junk-rigged yacht 'Tai Mo Shan' from HongKong to the U.K. Now he was recruiting young officers keen on sailing to assist in sailing captured German war-reparation yachts back from Kiel to Portsmouth. So we both signed on for this. BTW, that's when I came nearest to being drowned. But the tale of how we came to sail, penniless, southward down Holland for a few weeks, in an ex-Luftwaffe 39-foot engineless racing sloop, laden with cases of the finest cognac, may be too far off the subject of plastic model ships. Though we were in fact taken from Portsmouth to Kiel aboard the new destroyer HMS 'Comus' - through unswept minefields of German oyster mines, and then through the interesting Kiel canal. Happy New Year to all, Tony -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: my homepage I added some pictures I have questions about. Please have a look at http://www.geocities.com/friedkappes/pichelp.html Maybe you can help... The pictures are on - Stinger - Advice Prize - Yokusuka E1Y - HMS Fly - Raccoon - HMS Glatton - Sikorsky Ilya Murometz - unidentified sailing and steam ships - Hiro H4H - a Short seaplane - Dalmazia - LCM versions - LCU versions - HMS Wellington or HMS Marlborough - unidentified German S-boat - HMS Duke William - PCMM - HMS Victory - Italian 10 metre motorboat Thank you in advance!!!!!!!!!!!!! Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://www.geocities.com/friedkappes/flagship.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Order the BIG 3 now Hi all I am now accepting pre-orders for Warship Pictorial #15 Kriegsmarine Schnellboote 72 pages (64 in black & white, 8 in color) 171 black & white photos 8 color photos 20 sets of line drawings 11 color illustrations 4 pages of history 4 pages of statistics Canada $26Cdn + shipping USA & Intl $16US + shipping Warship Pictorial #16 USS New Jersey BB-62 (Photo Album) 64 pages (56 in black & white, 8 in color) 96 black & white photos 14 color photos 4 pages of history 4 pages of statistics Canda $24Cdn + shipping US & Intl $15US + shipping The latest book from Warship Perspectives Flush Deck Destroyers in World War II by Glenn Arnold An eighty page book, perfect bound with a fold out detailed set of plans laid in the back. There is coverage of the many variations showing Destroyer, APD, Minesweeper and Minelayer configerations. Also included are several sets of detailed general arrangement plans along eith may camouflage patterns. Filled with close-up photos of the classs that also includes views of the ships as they appeared in RN service. Canada $38Cdn + shipping US & Intl $24 + shipping PLEASE NOTE: credit card purchase's are now available through paypal.com. Remember: You can sell your used books or extra kits on the site at no cost or obligation, just email me with your ad. Regards Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: IJN Haruna plans? >> Does anybody know where to get plans of the IJN Haruna (Kongo-class battleship)? A friend shipmodel-builder who's not online has been in search for these for some time now, but was unable to find any... << Erwin, There are two sources for these drawings. 1) Buy the Warship Pictorial #13 IJN Kongo Class Battleships. It contains almost all existing photos and a few drawings of these ships. 2) Buy the MYCO drawings in 1/200 scale. Both items are available from Pacific Front Hobbies @ www.pacificfront.com Steve Wiper www.classicwarships.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume