Subject: SMML VOL 1470 Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 01:04:18 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: BALSA FOAM II? 2: Re: worst ship model 3: Building the Heller Victory 4: Heller Victory 5: Blackadder + Airfix 6: Heller HMS Victory 7: V-Boot deck colors 8: Re: Heller HMS Victory 9: new chinese ex russian warships 10: chinese naval fleet 11: U.S. Naval Museums 12: Triton 1/600 range 13: Navy League mag special tribute to HMAS brisbane & the other DDG's 14: Re: Republic of Texas Navy Ships 15: Re: Worst Kits -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: EDKRU@aol.com Subject: BALSA FOAM II? GREETINGS Prior to going overboard, do any SMML members have hands on working knowledge of the 12lb (per cubic ft density) Balsa Foam? I am planing on using it for mini model construction. Have a GREAT DAY ED K Panama City,FL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Eduardo Luis Marcovecchio" Subject: Re: worst ship model Hi Andrew, Well, I don't know if Lindberg kits count, as many of us agree they are the simplest ones around. Please note that I like them because they are cheap, good for teaching children how to buy, before trying a $$$ Tamiya or resin kit. :) My worst kit ever was a Lindberg Musashi. It was a small kit, around 1/1100. The hull was one piece, around 8" in lenght, and was so horribly shaped that it was funny! I compared it to my Musashi 1/350 Tamiya hull, and there was no similarity in any part. It looked more like a narrower PT boat hull. But it was fun to try correcting it using some heat and pressure at the right spots. Then came a lot of cutting / glueing / puttying / sanding. Then, came the deck. The kit represented Musashi already with the AA guns, but they were so out of scale... Their barrels were as tick as the main guns. The main turrets were all wrong, looking much more like the rectangular Bismarck ones. At least they had 3 barrels, this was correct. The planked deck lines were also huge! if converted to 1:1 scale, these lines would be around 2 feet high, and around 5 feet apart! The superstructure was made in 2 parts. The main tower and the "chimney". There were some few antenae, completely out of scale. The whole kit was less than 20 parts. I know that it's dificulty to produce quality kits in such a small scale, but the mini-ship series by Revell is so much better, and a little smaller than my Lindberg Musashi. Anyway, I like this kit, it was fun to see how crude it was, compared to what we are used to get from other brands. :) Eduardo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Joel Labow Subject: Building the Heller Victory Michael, I am in the process of putting together a review of Heller's Soleil Royal for the SteelNavy site (I know it's not steel but I try to expand their consciousness from time to time!). Based on that, and an extensive examination of the Victory kit I would recommend the following: A. Get a copy of C. Nepean Longridge's 'Anatomy of Nelson's Ships.' This is a detailed description of Dr. Longridge's construction of a 1/48 museum model of Victory, complete with plans and everything else you need to know to build ans award-winning model. My copy is over 40 years old but I believe it has been reprinted and is usually available through used book sites such as www.abe.com. B. As you compare the kit with the drawings in the book you will find thatin general it is remarkably accurate...with several oddities. 1. There should be an entry port at the midpoint of the middle gundeck (if you want to build the ship as she appeared at Trafalgar). The kit omits this. Everything else in the kit appears to depict Victory as she was in 1805. 2. Because of the nature of injection molding, the bulkheads are too thin when viewed through the gunports. This is one thing I wish I had fixed in my Soleil Royale model. I recommend using plastic strip behind the port openings to make the bulkheads appear scale thickness. 3. The copper plating detail is not carried all the way down to the keel. Depending on how you display the model this won't be particularly visible, but it's irritating...and easily fixed with thin plastic sheet cut to the correct dimensions. C. At this scale wood decks with individual planks are perfectly feasible. I recommend sanding all the raised detail off the kit decks except for hatch coamings (taking notes and photos to remember where it all went!) and then planking over them. Painting plastic to appear as wood can be quite effective in smaller scales but IMHO 1/100 is too big for this. D. You can build the model unrigged with stub masts and bowsprit to save space...many admiralty-style models are displayed this way. If you decide to rig the model I would recommend the following: 1. Replace the rigging line the comes with the kit with better line, such as Mopar. 2. The plastic deadeyes are OK but I would replace the blocks with wood ones. These may be obtained in bulk from Model Expo (get their printed catalog) or, if you're a real purist, from Warner Woods West. 3. MOST IMPORTANTLY, REPLACE THE MASTS AND SPARS WITH WOOD! Styrene plastic is exactly what the name implies...plastic. No matter how careful you are to get the rigging arranged symmetrically it will whip and/or bow over time from the tension in the attached lines. The lower masts (which are 2-piece hollow castings) can be fixed by stiffening them with telescoping brass tubing inside, but I strongly recommend replacing everything else with wood. Best regards (and feel free to contact me off list if you have further questions), Joel Labow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: Heller Victory >> Everyone suggested building the Heller HMS Victory, and I shall definitely consider it, despite its enormous size (40 1/2" oa length). Now where am I going to put it... :-) I have been aware of the Heller kit for a long time -- I first laid eyes on it about 10 or 11 years ago -- and I must admit, I was both overawed and daunted at the sheer size of the kit. That's why the Aifix and Revell kits were my fist consideration, not to mention the space required for display. << I know what you mean about the Victory's intimidation factor. I've had this kit for years and the most I've done with it is take it off the shelf, admire the sheets and sheets of tiny little blocks, the spools of thread and accompanying jig for making your own ratlines, the numerous little cannons (all decks present), and the vacuform sails. then I'll leaf through the rigging book (a massive volume), fit the hull halves together--noting that the little keel warp hasn't gone away in all the years it's sat on my shelf, put it all back in the box with a sigh and return it to the shelf--rationalizing that it stores flat if unbuilt, and I don't deserve to build such a magnificent model anyway, knowing I'd make a botch of it. then I take down from the same shelf the big scale Revell Thermopylae and the United States--less daunting skillwise, but drawing the same conclusions. I highly recommend having this kit in your collection. it is something to aspire to and think of the entertainment value you'll get over the years as you fondle the parts and read the instructions. It is also a good justification for buying other kits before building it so as to increase your skill level sufficiently to tackle such a herculean task. shirley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Mike Bartel Subject: Blackadder + Airfix I saw that one, too. The line about the Airfix kits made me rewind the tape to listen to it again to make sure I had heard it correctly. I explained it to my girlfriend and she was amused, too. I also watch Mystery Science Theatre 3000, and one of their last episodes was the British film 'Gorgo', a British take on the Godzilla theme. In it, you see Gorgo destroying a large model of a postwar 'Battle' class destroyer, and Mike and the robots are making fun of the ship's 'whoop' alarm, making Curly jokes ('we killed it, Moe! Whoop, whoop!'). You have to watch it to get the full effect, but it's the kind of episode that makes you wish they hadn't stopped production of the series. Tearing apart bad movies like that one is essential to our survival as a species. Mike Bartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: JKrakow@aol.com Subject: Heller HMS Victory >> Could anyone recommend a good review on the Heller HMS Victory kit? << Hi Mike Haven't seen a review of the kit but recall seing the model built up at a hobby store, mighty impressive. There's a lot of plastic in the box, so pound for pound, its probably one of the cheapest kits on the market. Two criticisms (working on memory here-- so might be unjustified) 1) the copper plating on the hull is inexplicably missing at the very bottom. This "bald spot" will be hard to correct. 2) Exaggerated overscale simulated wood grain, the norm for plastic sailing ships. Incidentally, a large scale HMS Victory model made a cameo appearance on "Star Trek, the Next Generation". (Chief Engineer LaForge shows off his handiwork to Data and tries to explain the appeal of modelling a sailing ship.) I presume the prop for this episode was built from the Heller kit. Cheers Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: JKrakow@aol.com Subject: V-Boot deck colors >> I'm getting ready to send my scratchbuilt German WW2 Vorpostenboot to the paintshop, but I need some info on the deck colors used. << Hi Doug Check out the color photo of a V-boot Flak crew in the weapons section of my website: http://www.prinzeugen.com/Weapons.htm The wooden deck has been painted KM dark grey or black, as on E-Boats. There is also a white stripe through the centerline which may be an air recognition measure, or a safety feature for the night watch. Cheers Dave www.PrinzEugen.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Tom Kremer Subject: Re: Heller HMS Victory Mini review... I'm doing the Victory right now along with the 1/100 Revell Constitution, Constitution is about half done, Victory has only the first gun deck in. The Heller kit has less flash and better fit, on the Revell kit I've pretty much given up on the concept of "no visible seams". For the Heller kit there is still some hope. By 1/700 scale standards they are both crude kits but there is so much detail and rigging, etc to see that I think the casual eye will never notice the coarse molded-in wood grain and all the filler in the big seams. Besides, the case to hold both these models will have to be big enough that the eye of the viewer may be 1-2 feet away, not 6 inches. I think they'll both be awesome when completed (which won't be for a long time). Tom K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: new chinese ex russian warships According to the reports i have seen there was no mention of what changes will be made..maybe it will be internals like radar & electronics.. maybe yet the main guns & missile systems could be replced & even if they did announce , its a long time till they slide down the rails so anything could change till then .. & then there's the chance that they might not even get completed! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: chinese naval fleet This is a link to the FAS in regards to the chinese fleet also includes designs to the new boomer sub http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/plan/index.html this is the main title page, just about everything you wanna know about modern military is in this link & the links that follow on you could spend the next 10 years going thru the links & you probably still wouldnt get thru them. This is a large must to book mark! http://www.fas.org/man/index.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: U.S. Naval Museums http://www.bb62museum.org/usnavmus.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: NeilTaylor54@aol.com Subject: Triton 1/600 range I have a large number of Triton 1:600 warships they can be completed into excellent models, being well cast in white metal. Unfortunately WEM no longer stock them I wondered if anyone knew of a source in the UK or even the States. I am also looking for a source for the similar SDD range. Neil Taylor.(200 1:600 kits + 60 PE in loft) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: Navy League mag special tribute to HMAS brisbane & the other DDG's In the current edition of the RAN Navy league magazine there is a special part that pay stribute to th elast of the RAN DDG's & her sister ships. goes into the history of the DDG's & wh they were selected..it was the DDG vs County class & the Brooke class frigate. The main reason for selecting the DDg was that Charles F Adams were destined to be delivered months ahead of the Devonshire & the Seaslug missiles were not as good as the Tartar even thought the Tartar was having its share of problems (servicability in 1962 of 30% & in 1963 a single shot capability of 0.40). Also it seems the RAN was going to modify the DDGs from their American counterparts. 1) version Alpha armed with a Mk-13 Tartar launcher & bow mounted sonar 2) Version Bravo was an alpha replacing ASROC with Ikara 3) Version charlie was another Alpha replacing ASROC & a AN/sos-35 sonar 4) version delta Ikara instead of ASROC,AN/SQS-35 VDS, removal of the aft 5inch gun mount & provision of a flight deck & single or twin hanger for a wessex helo, & the tartar would be resited in place of the aft 5inch gun .. & the ultimate item - STABILISERS! The magazine also has a side prfile drawing of this version (so if you wanna do a model of this or wanna see the drawing let me know & i'll scan it ... but i think i saw a model of this at a task force 72 display day @ Garden ISland, but could be a good model if you have built every version of the DDG before & wanna try something different. 5) version echo, total redesign..removal of one engine & one funnel to accomodate more of helicopter & stowage arrangements. it is quite a good issue & generally magazine, so you aussies that like navy stuff , well worth going to your newsagents or maybe becoming a member only $24.20 for the first annual subscription. Looks they do visits to ships & lectures & meetings etc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Republic of Texas Navy Ships >> As noted in a previous SMML, the Pyro/Lindberg "War of Independence Schooner" is similar to the "Brutus," While the Academy "New Bedford Whaler" kit has hull lines similar to the "Austin." The prototypes of each kit were built around 1835, right around the same time period. << ROFL. Well, if they're anything like the Jolly Roger kit, I'll make note to give them both a wide berth. Sounds like the only way to do this is to get plans and build them plank on hull method. I will though make note of the book should I run across it. Sounds pretty interesting. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Daniel Bauer" Subject: Re: Worst Kits I can safely say the worst kit I ever had the pleasure to build was an old Revell of Mexico 1/32 scale Bf 110G. The wings were so warped I had to find a US Revell kit of the BF 110C to get a set of wings to use. Then I still had to use alot of green putty to fill the gaps. I can say I haven't yet come across a bad ship model. I stay away from Revell today. Regards, Dan Bauer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume