Subject: SMML VOL 1472 Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:13:48 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Worst kit 2: Naval Base Hobbies 3: Canadian Cape Class 4: Re: Worst kit 5: Re: worst model - Revell Olympia 6: Re: Yorktown class SBDs 7: Re: Heller HMS Victory 8: Akagi boot top 9: U.S. Navy's Official Web Site: Welcome Aboard 10: Re: Yorktown class SBDs 11: Re: Artillery shell casing 12: The high cost of the hobby 13: Worst ship kit 14: worst kits / Revell 15: Re: Worst Kit 16: Re: Worst Kit 17: Re: H.M.S. Victory 18: Hasegaws's 1/700 Kongo class -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Atlanta Model Expo 2002 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New from Toms 2: International Maritime Modeling January 2002 Update 3: For Sale: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Worst kit >> Anyways...it was a long time ago....I bought the Revell USS Olympia kit. I am primarily an armor modeler, but this ship interested me because I was born and raised in Philadelphia...where the real McCoy resides in the Delaware River as a floating museum. I had visited it several times while a teenager. I found my kit to have badly warped cabin parts. This was back in the early days of my model building and I was too darn dumb to know how to fix a warp. I gave up on this kit. Donno if the thing is still available any more....but maybe some day I will come across another kit of it and give it the old college try again. It could have just been my example of the kit...donno. However, mine was warped....big time. Also, I haven't got a clue as to how accurate that kit was. The mold has to be 30 years or better old....so probably not state of the art for what you ship modelers expect today. << It was reissued about 2-3 years ago and actually isn't a bad kit. With the PE sets from either Tom's or GMM and some judicious rework, like getting rid of the oversized hull rivets, it can be built up into a decent model. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Mike Petersen" Subject: Naval Base Hobbies Anyone have any experiences with these folks? I placed an order for some decals and PE back on Dec 12th. They charged my card on the 12th. I emailed them about a week and a half ago and they wrote back that the shipment was to be mailed last week. Still no package this week. They now don't respond to email and will not answer the phone. Is something going on over there, or have I been scammed? I plan on giving them a few more days and then I guess I will have to call my CC company... If anyone has had any experiences with them, or know of a different way of contacting them please let me know. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Fred Bustard Subject: Canadian Cape Class HMCS Cape Breton (ex HMS Flamborough Head) and Cape Scott (ex HMS Beachy Head) were built in Canada for the RN. They were subsequently turned over to the RCN and used as Escort Maintenance Ships. They carried out maintenance and repairs to support the fleet at sea but eventually ended their careers as Fleet Maintenance Group alongside. The design of these ships is similiar to the Victory and Park ships. Having served on the Cape Scott, my first ship, I'm looking for any info, photos and plans to build a 1/350 model. Also, anyone that has an interest in kits of RCN ships please contact me. Cheers Fred Bustard From the crowsnest -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Norman Samish" Subject: Re: Worst kit These "worst kit" stories have been interesting and educational, and tell me what to avoid. How about the other side of the coin? What are the Best Kit(s) you've encountered? Norm Samish -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Re: worst model - Revell Olympia I must disagree with Ray Mehlberger's nomination of the Revell USS Olympia as Worst Ship Model. Granted, it is more than 40 years old and not up to current standards, and there are several areas that need to be corrected. However, with no more effort than the average dedicated modeler among us is used to expending, it can make up into a stunning model. A little work and the addition of the GMM PE set for the kit resulted in my literally having an award-winning model. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER unique wood sculpture and fine scale models www.walruscarpenter.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: schiefet@cs.com Subject: Re: Yorktown class SBDs >> Lets put on our thinking caps here. Does anyone know the number of SBD's that could be hung from the hanger overhead on a Yorktown class carrier. I'm more interested in the Hornet CV 8 but any of the three in that class should due. I've seen one photo of the Yorktown CV 10 with a few hanging but she is an Essex class. If there isn't anyone out there who may have an answer for me then maybe someone could leed me in the right direction to find this info. << Keith, I believe all three ships have web pages, perhaps they have that information. I know CV6.org has a Q&A page, so you may want to post this question there. I'll contact my acquaintances from CV6 and see if any of them have an answer. (Only SBD's or all types of aircraft?) Steve Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: Re: Heller HMS Victory I think the kit review to which Robert Lockie is referring is the one which was published in "Model Shipwright no.32", June 1980. It is very detailed, 5 pages, with several photographs. Although pointing out several faults in the kit, the conclusion is "Anyone who still thinks plastic kits are toys should examine the Heller Victory; if the serious modeller views the matter objectively he will see that this is a better scale model than any of the exotic and expensive wood kits". I have not myself examined the Heller kit but more years ago than I care to remember, in the 1960s, I built a Revell Victory. At that time Revell produced two Victory kits to two different scales. The one I built was the smaller of the two and was considered then to be a very well designed and detailed kit. I certainly had a great deal of pleasure in building it and was pleased with the result. Some ten years later Airfix produced their large scale Victory which I tried but abandoned because of all its inaccuracies. Harold Lincoln -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: Akagi boot top Hi everybody Imperial Japanese Navy ships were painted IJN Kure-Sasebo-Maizuru gray with brownish red underwater hulls...WITHOUT the black or gray boot top common in other navies, right? All the photos I've seen of IJN ships with underwater hulls visible show this. I am presently working on a model of the carrier Akagi, which I assumed also followed that pattern. However, I have come across a couple of very nicely done Akagi models sporting black boot tops. One is a 1/500 scale rendering by Fred Heil on the Steel Navy site at http://www.steelnavy.com/AkagiHeil.htm. The other is the magnificent 9 foot long 1/96 Akagi at the USS Arizona Memorial visitor center at Pearl Harbor done by a team led by Don Preul. http://starbulletin.com/2000/12/06/news/story3.html Ordinarily I would dismiss this kind of secondary evidence as just modeler's misinterpretations, but the impressive quality of these models gives one pause...did Akagi have the black boot top after all? Tim Reynaga -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: U.S. Navy's Official Web Site: Welcome Aboard http://www.navy.mil/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: Yorktown class SBDs >> lets put on our thinking caps here. Does anyone know the number of SBD's that could be hung from the hanger overhead on a Yorktown class carrier. << While not a definitive answer, the following from Norman Friedman's U.S. Aircraft Carriers - An Illustrated Design History, pp.93-94, provides some insight. Writing about ENTERPRISE, he notes that in 1941"...she was operating eighty-four aircraft and carrying thirty-seven as spares, most of them triced up over her hangars..." Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Artillery shell casing Well, "WRA Co." is Winchester Repeating Arms Company. I'd start by contacting Winchester. You could also try to find a knowledgeable gun dealer who might have access to published histories of Winchester. Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: The high cost of the hobby There seems to be some discussion about the rising cost of the hobby, and I thought that I would weigh in with a little historical perspective. What I have done is a search of a fwe examples of both aviation and naval subjects to show what these kits were offered for sale in March 1987, and their relavent excnahge rates in today's market prices, and what these same kits are being offered today on the Internet. The first example is the Tamiya 1/48 Lancaster. Originally, this kit was offered in both the B.1 and B.3 versions for Sterling 22.95 ($33.23). Squadron Mail Order (SMO) offers the latest "propeller turning" kit for $103.00, somewhat lower than Hannant's Sterling 85.00 ($123.00). In 1987, Tamiya offered their 1/48 F-4J "Collector's Hi-Grade Series" for Sterling 26.99 ($39.08). A standard 1/48 Tamiya F-4 can be had from England for Sterling 22.95 ($33.23), but any of the old "Collector's Hi-Grade Series" were being sold here for over $100.00, the F-14 comes to mind. To say the least, the "Lanc" has gone through the roof in price, while any "super" kit will still cost you a cool "C-note". Let us now look at ship kit prices. In March 1987 the Matchbox Flower Class Corvette listed for Sterling 32.00 ($46.34), and the Tamiya 1/350 Price of Wales (PoW) was listed as Sterling 34.00 ($49.24). You can find the 1/72 Flower for sale for about $99.00 on the Net, and SMO has the PoW listed for $54.46. So what can be deduced from these comparisons of prices from March 1987 and today's kit prices? The higher the demand there is for a particular kit, as is the case of the PoW, the relative prices have risen about 11%, while the Flower has almost doubled in price. In the aircraft category though, the "Lanc" has almost tripled in price. But, though "Hi-Grade" or "Super" aircraft kits have stayed relatively stable over the past ten years, the basic kits have actually dropped in price. So if a person wishes to built relatively inexpensively, they need to keep their hobby sights firmly focused on the average and quickly available items. But, if that same person wishes to have something that turns their own and other's heads, then you have to open your relative wallets open very, very wide indeed. I recently started to do some simple OOB builds just for fun. After I started three separate kits, with simple cleaning up of the seams and such, I put them all back on the shelf. Why? Even while trying to build for simple pleasure, and not for anyone's view other than my own, I was still faced with the fact that if I was going to spend a limited amount of hobby hours building ANY kit, I was determined to get the most bang for my effort. So, I ordered the missing super-detail pieces that from Cobra-Company to finish off a model that I really was not that enthused with building. But, this Revell 1/48 SH-2F Seasprite will have the latest mods, not the "Super Sprite" versioned "G" model, and will have vacuformed entry doors that really slide on scale rails, and, the resin electronic racks will be wired correctly, relatively speaking. Why all the trouble? because I will be able to see my work when it is finished. And if I do decide to enter this kit in a model contest, this category does not have 10,000 other entries to impress the judges against my feable efforts. I will derive my modeling pleasure from the detailing of the item, not necessarily the subject. Also, I will let you know how my 1/72 Monogram F-104C will look like after I have added the Verlinden, Aires, Czech Master, Daco, Part, and many other after-market firm's products to this fully opened up, variously finished naturally metal panelled, in George Laven's markings. Laven's garishly marked F-104 was named "Really George", while my smaller scale effort will be called "Really Harold". I guess that I am a fanatic for the details. What do you all think? Harold Stockton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Loren Perry Subject: Worst ship kit As much as I love the old Revell ship kits, I have to give their classic 1950's vintage USS Nautilus (SSN-571) the Worst Ship Kit award. The inaccurate, misshapen hull, fanciful Loon missile installation, and other lesser sins make this particular kit a real winner in the world of losers. But I still love it - as a kid, I had one and thought it was the last word in plastic model submarines. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "pstewart@gwi.net" Subject: worst kits / Revell I've loved every Revell kit I've made, and I think that at least on some of them, the workmanship in the molding was excellent. I'm really surprised to hear of a Revell kit that sucked that badly. While I'll readily boycott a manufacturer if I buy a shoddy product from them, I'd say Revell is worth a second chance, since there are so many kit reviews to read these days, and so a little research can go far to ensuring a satisfying purchase. Reading a review at navismagazine.com panning the Hasegawa 1/700 IJN battleship/carrier Ise was a good source of amusement when I had just purchased the kit, my first in twenty years, and set about doing research on how to build it accurately Paolo Pizzi, who reviewed the kit, said the hull was so inaccurately done that it was "irreparable." I practically fell down laughing at my choice of this kit. "One of Hasegawa's worst kits." I'm still researching the task, planning a trip to the Library of Congress of the USA for this purpose, as soon as the schedule allows. ;) As for my vote on worst kits: Lindberg kits sure were simplistic! I enjoyed building them, but the solid railings on the Bismarck and Tirpitz were constant sources of amazement to me. Had I had better tools, I might have seen them as more enjoyable challenges than I did. Then again, there was the big Lindberg destroyer (Fletcher? I can't remember) with a big motor in it-- just a fun kit all around. At the time I built it, when I was a kid, I found it to be an eminently improvable kit. Then I found Tamiya armor. Oh my. But those go in the "best kits" column. I can't wait to see their new Mitsubishi Zero. (swoon) Phil Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Worst Kit I don't know if I could claim just one, but without a doubt the worst I ever had was the small 1:1010 Lindberg Cleveland cl cruiser. I never built it. Rather, I opened the box, looked at the blobs they called parts, and tossed it in a box due to be sent to a friend who's not that particular about models. Rebuilding the Wilkes Barre would be easier than building that kit so it accurately represented a Cleveland. The larger 1:600 Lindberg Cleveland kit bites, but with a lot of work it can be made to vaugely resemble a Cleveland. I've seen a few that were pretty darn impressive - although they would be hard pressed to give a Skywave Cleveland a run for it's money. That kit is still on my to eventually get list. The small one though is so horrifically WRONG that one has to declare it a total loss before it left the drawing board. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Worst Kit Al Ross said; >> Without question, the worst kit I have ever built is the Billings DANMARK. The wood and engineering are atrocious, the plans vague. I could have scratch-built it quicker. << Al; Their JYLLAND is "just as good". I tossed it 1/2 way done. Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister eGroups : WoodenWalls Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "John Barnum" Subject: Re: H.M.S. Victory In 1970 Airfix produced three books in the Classic Ships series. They are the Victory , Cutty Sark and the Mayflower. There History and How to Model Them.( To super detail the kits.) Included in each book are chapters on Rigging, Colour Detail, Modifications, Shortcuts and for Victory Signals, The Guns and Sail Rig. The books are based on the Airfix models. They are writtern by Noel C.L. Hackney and published by Patrick Stephens Ltd. ISBN numbers are 0 85059 053 1 HMS Victory (Aug. 1970) 96 pages 0 85059 058 2 Mayflower (Dec. 1970) 80 pages 0 85059 123 6 Cutty Sark ( 1974) 96 pages I'm afaid they are out of print now and have no idea how much they would be today as I have had my copies for some time.I have included Mayflower and Cutty Sark for any one else who is planning any future projects. John Barnum Margate UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Franz Aigner GmbH" Subject: Hasegaws's 1/700 Kongo class Do Hasegawa's four Kongos (more or less) accurately represent the differences between the ships, or are they of the "one mold fits all" type? Richard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: Atlanta Model Expo 2002 Greeting mates: I hope that everyone had pleasant holidays and got exactly what you deserved. I want to invite all of you to the Atlanta Model Expo 2002 to be held on 1-2 Feburary at Meadowcreek High School, 4455 Steve Reynolds Boulevard, Norcross, Georgia. More specific information may be found at: http://www.victorymodels.com/ame2002mp.htm This contest has drawn about 800 models for each of the last three years, and ships have been well represented. While you are at the site, visit the host site and click on AME 2001 to see how the catagories were split and see the winning entrants. SMML listmates are especially invited. Just an opportunity for a face-to-face. I know of at least six Atlanta-based listmates and more in the Southeastern US. Look for me; the host club can find me for you. I like to meet each list mate who comes. John Collins Atlanta, GA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Tom & Carolyn Harrison" Subject: New from Toms We at Tom's Modelworks have started off the new year with the release of five new etched brass detailing sets. Set 738 1/700 scale WWII British Naval Radar's and Antennas, (20 different types) $7.00 Set 750 1/700 USS ARIZONA Rails and details, for new MiniHobby kit. $12.00 Set 6008 1/600 KG V rails and details $13.50 Set 6009 1/600 Bismarck rails and details $12.00 Set 6013 1/60 WWII British Naval Radar,s and antennas $8.50 as always free shipping when SMML is mentioned with the order. I hope to have all sets up on our web site next week. For anyone interested in 1/96 scale sets we now have 9 sets in production and more to come this year, contact us for a listing as they will be up on the site at a later date. Work is progressing on our 1/200 Sovremenniy set and work has begun on the Prinz Eugen sets 1/400 scale and the to be released 1/700 Tamiya kit. As most of you may know, we have gotten out of the resin side of the business which will has allowed us to devote more time to the development of brass sets, so look forward to several more new sets coming out over the year. Happy modeling and much thanks to everyone that supported us over the years with the purchase of our brass sets, and a special thanks to those of you that have helped out with the development of new sets. After 16 years of business last year was the best ever and this year looks even better. Thanks Again Tom and Carolyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: International Maritime Modeling January 2002 Update I am pleased to announce that the latest update to International Maritime Modeling has been uploaded. http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm The January 2002 update to the site includes: A new feature to IMM is making its debut - the Ship Tour section. The first ship to be featured is the Russian protected cruiser Aurora. Photos of Mark Leonard's 1/142 scale Volga fishing trawler in the Gallery. Review of the Revell-Germany 1/72 scale S-100 Class Schnellboot in Quick Kit Reviews. Reviews of the White Ensign Models 1/600 scale "Ultimate" WWII Royal Navy Destroyers & Escorts Set One, "Ultimate" WWII Royal Navy Destroyers & Escorts Set Two, "Ultimate" Kriegsmarine Set Three and HMS Rodney/Nelson Detail Set in Photoetch Reviews. Review of Warship Pictorial #4: USS Texas BB-35 in Book Reviews. Related updates to the Links page. Please stop by for a look. Felix Bustelo International Maritime Modeling URL: http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: For Sale: 1/50 scale plans for the Kriegsmarine "Vorpostenboot V-1102 Lutzow" (Flak-ship, six large plan sheets) and "Marine-Fahrprahm Typ D" (Flak-lighter, two large sheets). These are VERY detailed plan sets, and I am looking to sell these new plans separately or together. Contact me at my e-mail address at: snolep@texas.net Harold Stockton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume