Subject: SMML VOL 1477 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:04:15 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Why I Am A Ship Modeler 2: worst ship model 3: Helena and Benham 4: Why I became a semi-seldom ship modeler 5: U/I carrier model 6: Worst ship model/why we build 7: Re: Phalanx CIWS 8: Why I became a ship modeler 9: 200 year old Carved bone warship 10: Naval Base Hobbies 11: Re: Why Ships? 12: Find And Destroy 13: Why I became a ship modeler 14: Modelling the Victory 15: Re: U-boat guns 16: Why I build ship models 17: Re: Akagi 'boot top' 18: Painting a PBR 19: Re: Why did you become a ship modeler 20: Re: U/I carrier model -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: Why I Am A Ship Modeler Eye therapy. When I was in the 3rd grade in the Canal Zone (1955), I was diagnosed with "lazy eye". One of the therapies was to wear a patch over my "good" eye and make models or take a common pin and punch out the periods and dots from a Reader's Digest. Modeling sounded more fun and, since my Dad was a naval officer, well... Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Bonini S.r.l." Subject: worst ship model Hi everybody, I have a Revell Essex and some smaller Lindberg kits, but...these are Tamiya quality when compared with the Accura/Euromodel kit of the Polish sub "Orzel" in 1/200 scale! If any of you SMMLies will have the possibility of giving at least a look into the box (don't buy it !!!), I would be curious to hear the comments. Giusto Gallas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Norman Samish" Subject: Helena and Benham I've recently met Rush Yates, an enlisted-man survivor of the 6 July 1943 sinking of the USS Helena at the Battle of Kula Gulf. She was torpedoed and sunk by Japanese destroyers Suzukaze and Tanikaze off Kolombangara, Solomons, with many casualties. Before that he survived the sinking of DD397, the USS Benham, torpedoed 15 Nov. 1942 off Guadalcanal. Are there model kits of the Helena or Benham? Thanks, Norm Samish -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "RAY MEHLBERGER" Subject: Why I became a semi-seldom ship modeler Semi-seldom means that I very, very occassionally will build a ship model. Even then, it will be either a U-boat, submarine, or a torpedo boat. (I seem hung up on those). This is because I loved the old submarine movies on T.V. when I was younger...heck...still do. (Kids bought me U-571 for Xmas on tape). Loved the PT-109 movie and THEY WERE EXPENDABLE...with the DUKE too. I do have some other odds and ends that fell into my hands, from trading with Eastern European modelers...years ago. I have unsolicited models of POTEMPKIN, AURORA, SHELL WELDER (a oil tanker), BATORY (a Polish liner) and a Lindberg LST. I did buy the Glencoe OREGON on a wim and the Trumpeter POLA...also in a weak moment. I also have Tamiya's 1/350 scale BISMARK...which was practically GIVEN to me. Got it for about $8.00 of swap trade materials of mine. Had to have that one after buying & reading the Ballard book on finding the wreck of it. My favorite kit is the Nichimo 1/200th scale Jap sub I have. It has the little Glen float plane on it, that stores into the waterproof hangar. I am chiefly a WWII armor and figure modeler in 1/35th scale only. I do have a few of the WWI tanks...but wish there were some figures to go with those. Second love is WWII aircraft in all the scales from 1/72nd on up and the Williams Bros 1/32nd scale 1930's pylon racing planes too. Ships...or should I say subs and torpedo boats...are 3rd or maybe even 4th down my list. So now...as Paul Harvey says on the radio....YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY......Hey wake up...pay attention...there will be a pop quiz later!!! Regards, Ray Mehlberger Contributing Armor Editor for INTERNET MODELER MAGAZINE www.internetmodeler.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Robert Healy" Subject: U/I carrier model Greetings to All, In regards to the U/I carrier kit, I believe I did the same one in the late 60's or early 70's. It was not made a manufacturer that you would normally associate with a plastic kit but for the life of me I cannot think of the name. It was probably on a par with a Lindberg for quality, but at the time I didn't know... or care. It was big and had some planes and would probably survive in the pool for a while. Anyway, with regards to the lower quality kits I believe they serve their purpose in the food chain. Buy em for the kids and let them have at it. We were not all P/E experts in the begining. My daughter has butchered a few kits here and there but the satisfaction she gets, and also learning to follow an instruction sequence, is well worth the small cost of the kit and associated supplies. The hardest thing is letting them have at it and not nit pick letting my need to make it correct override the fun of the thing. Anyone figured out where to get a Combrig Sverdlov yet? Regards, Bob Healy (USN for the duration) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Melea/Mike Maynard" Subject: Worst ship model/why we build A lot of folk on this list criticize SCALE as the major complaint of "kits behaving badly". As a kid, if I could raise up enough money(all of 98 cents) from the piggybank, scale and accuracy wasn't an issue. What was important to this writer was the "buildability" (is that a real word?) of a model, i.e. the plastic so warped or misshapen that a 9 year old couldn't straighten it out. And for most of you "boot" modelers on this list, when was the last time you had to spend hours getting rid of that dreaded FLASH from the model??? Crimminy, I remember plastic model kits(Aurora, Lindberg, Airfix and even Revell) that were so flash infected that we of the 50's era thought nothing of it, sort of like expecting to do a lot of sanding when building a balsa model. Worst model? The ITC Oregon(now GLENCOE's model). It was so bad with warped hull, misshapen gun barrels and lots and lots of lovely flash I tossed it, the only model I ever gave up on! Fast forward to the 70's. I purchased a model of the Japanese BB the HYRUNA(sp?) from BANDAI. I don't recall the scale but it was motorized and even with my "build anything" attitude this clunk of a model was so poorly cast and toyish I gave it to a neighbor's kid. As I push the big "Five Oh" I look back on my model building exploits of 42 years and to coin a phrase,(with apologies to humorist Will Rogers) "I never meet a model I didn't like". Except that damn Oregon.... Why we build..."Men cannot give birth so they build things". If this statement has any credence, I guess that is one reason why we males construct model ship, plane, armour, train layouts, build wooden birdhouses, restore cars, ETC ETC as a "past time", there seems to be a need to vent energy(or relax). I was asked once why I build ship models by a airplane modeler and to borrow a phrase made by the great jazz musician Duke Ellington("Mister if I have to explain it(the attraction of jazz) you ain't never gonna get it". And to me the same holds true for building ship models, there ain't no explanation, just pure enjoyment. Mike Maynard USCG(Ret) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Phalanx CIWS On the face of it, this seems not terribly well thought out. If the intention is to thwart September 11 style attack with a phalanx, it will not happen. Unless the valuable target is ringed with phalanx installations at a considerable distance, all that will happen is that the aircraft will be damaged on the way in; it's mass will carry forward the wreckage into the target. An airliner is not a missile, and there is not enough kinetic energy in the CIWS round to stop it in it's tracks. All that will happen is that collateral damage will be increased, by the chunks blown off the aircraft on the way in, and of course by the stray rounds landing who knows where. In an urban environment this is insane - think of the damage caused by idiots shooting guns in the air on July 4th. If the potential target is not in an urban environment, better to establish no fly zones with prompt fighter interception if needed. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography www.warshipphotos.com Order via our online catalog...now taking credit cards via Paypal Warship Models Underway www.warshipmodelsunderway.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Mike Bartel Subject: Why I became a ship modeler I first started building ship models at the age of around ten or eleven, after watching Star Blazers (Space Battleship Yamato). This was in 1980, when the English translation was first being broadcast in the USA. I wanted to find a model of the original Yamato, and started with the Lindberg 1:1500 plastic snap-kit. Later I started getting the 1:1200 diecast Hornby Minic-Ships at the tail end of their general availability in toy shops. The Yamato was my first in that series. Then, I built some others (the Lindberg Hood, the Revell New Jersey, and some more Yamato kits from Tamiya and Fujimi in 1:350 and 1:550 respectively). Then, I discovered the Water Line series kits in 1:700, and the Shinano was my first kit from that range. I still have it somewhere. After discovering a few years later of the availability of Star Blazers plastic kits and rediscovering model railroading, I didn't revisit ship modeling until 1988, in my senior year in high school. There was a hobby shop on the route to the school I was going to, and I remember finding the Airfix Iron Duke there one day, and building it immediately when I got home. After I finished high school in 1989, I was accepted into Temple University, and needed something to fill the time before the fall term. I rediscovered ship modeling through a complex set of circumstances, and worked overtime at my part-time job to purchase a Nichimo 1:200 Yamato kit. It took me a week of nonstop building to complete it. It actually turned out nice, though I didn't paint it. I had intended to install R/C gear, but this never got past the installation of servos. his all was, of course, before I knew anything about kit collecting, kit accuracy, superdetailing, or resin/cottage kits. I have always found something majestic about a large ship in the water. It doesn't have to be a warship, as liners and even merchant ships have their own charm. But, warships are the most fascinating to me. Ships are the largest mobile structures on earth and they each have their own special dimension. There's lots of history to be learned and the architectural lessons from each ship are also fascinating. Psychologically speaking, I guess it's kind of a phallic thing, deep down. Mike Bartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "S Brejnak" Subject: 200 year old Carved bone warship To all those who shared information on how to repair the 200 year old carved bone warship I thank-you very much. The ship has been fixed and my customer was delighted (I always love when people with deep pockets are generous) Anyway the ship came out great and I ended up using plain old elmers glue to repair her. Took a while holding things in place while the glue set but what else you gonna do while watching the ball game. Glue wise I know it was a bit unortodox I'll admit but it was the least agressive of all the adhesives people suggested. Especially after having two museums tell me to use super glue. I'm sure she'll stay together another 200 years as long as nobody else drops a book on her. I'll admit it was both an honor and a humbling experience to work on a piece of history. Especially after researching how these ships were constructed and the horrible living conditions the men that made them had to endure. It kinda made you rather choose death over being thrown in prison back then. Thanks again Steve Brejnak -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Gruffydd3@aol.com Subject: Naval Base Hobbies I too, had a bad experience with Naval Base Hobbies. That was my first order with them, and it will be my last. Rick M -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Ron Schmitt" Subject: Re: Why Ships? Two major events in the 50's. The first of course was "Victory at Sea" on our 17" B&W Sylvania Halo-lite TV. and the other was my older brother building the balsa Monogram "Shangra-La". I think I was about 8 at the time. The dinning room smelled like testors glue in the yellow tube and testors Dope. As I sit and look at all the bits and pieces of my CA 1/700 Wasp I marvel at how far we have come and how innocent we were. I can look at my efforts and remember what was happening in my life. This one at the birth of my son, that one in periods of unemployment. Another at a time of recovery from surgery. They all mean something far more than wood, plastic, brass or resin. Ron Schmitt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Find And Destroy I have to second Mr. Brown's assessment of the new USNI Press book "Find And Destroy" (ISBN #1-55750-447-4) by Dwight Messimer. It's an interesting read and filled with the background information one needs when researching the early ships and weapons used in anti-sub warfare. The only drawback about this book is the paper it's printed on--uncoated stock used for photo pages tends to detract contrast and sharpness. This is a minor problem, though as the text more than covers the subject. A very well done book about a largely unexplored subject. We have a full review in the Winter 2001-2002 issue of Model Ship Journal mailing this week. Victor Baca Model Ship Journal www.modelshipjournal.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Why I became a ship modeler From 23 September to 31 December 1990 the Minneapolis Institute of Arts hosted an astonishing art exhibition entitled "Mirror of Empire - Dutch Marine Art of the Seventeenth Century." This was one of three locations in the U.S. to exhibit this collection (Toledo, Ohio, and Los Angeles, California were the other two). It was gathered from museums and private holdings in eleven countries in Europe (including 18 sources in the Netherlands) and the U.S. The exhibition was comprised of over one hundred priceless marine paintings, sketches, charts, globes, navigational instruments, and nautical ephemera from that period. There were at least 14 van de Veldes displayed (both the Elder and the Younger) which included both their paintings and sketches. Some paintings in this exhibit measured a dozen feet across and the same vertically, some paintings measured just several inches in both dimensions. With almost the same level of detail.(!!) When I attended the exhibition in 1990 I was a long-term model airplane builder. This display of Dutch maritime art pushed me into model ship building, I was so enthused and inspired. I felt the history of these incredible paintings beaconing to me and was enthralled with the level of detail, the color, the atmospheric ambiance, the pageantry, the drama, and the record of ships extant in them. I was astonished by the detail: I felt I was looking at photographs of the real ships. This exhibition did for me what art, good art, should do: I was pulled into the paintings and felt lost within them. "I", (I said to myself) "I must build a ship model!" Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Nautical Research Guild Tin Can Sailors Friends of the battleship NORTH CAROLINA IPMS/USA #3345 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Jean-Pierre Coddron" Subject: Modelling the Victory The British magazine Scale Models published a review of the kit when it was issued, but their meaning on French kits (as Heller is) has never been very positive. I remember that their meaning on the Victory was pretty favourable: they even doubted that the side entry port existed at the time of Trafalgar. I built the kit and I think that modellers should be aware of what they are beginning at. The artillery and the standing rigging will keep you busy for a number of months. I needed 3 years to complete the ship, but then again, I am desperately slow and various stops were included to resume my motivation. I would say that this must be the very best plastic sailing ship kit available. The instruction are extensive but will allow you to build a quite complete model. The wood detail of the deck is of course much too coarse (easy to sand away) and the side planks are not figured. I corrected the upper decks to represent these. I also added rings (4 each) to each gunport, ans I rigged all visible guns. Some extra work may be advised on the ship's boats which are a little naked inside. The copper sheating of the hull is OK for me. Careful painting is the message here. I used 'antique bronze' by Humbrol, with very light wash of green, and a faint dry brushing in 'Bronze'. And the real ship show I was right: no copper color please. Indeed, the sheating is omitted closer to the keel, but this remainqs invisible as long as you do not put the ship on a mirror base. 2 difficulties I encountered were: The colons on the stern gallery, which have a square section on the real ship, are half rounded on the model: this requires a very steady hand to paint them all the same width. The main difficulty however was the plastic rigging: it requires a lot of attention not to bend the various spars when you fix the different lines. I did manage it (although I rigged cotton sails) but the bowsprit would definitely need replacement by a metal item (mine was later accidentally broken.) A few more remarks: the skylight on the real ship has a curved top while the model shows a flat top one. The plastic sails should be discarded as they will spoil your efforts. The side entry ports are not the only items 'missing'. The stairs should also be made wider. The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships by Nepean Longridge is indeed THE reference material but there are many other books on theat ship. The color of the 'yellow' stripes on hte hull: most paintings show yellow stripes, while the Vistory in Portsmouth shows rather buff stripes. Was this the original colour? I do not know, but the yellow stripes on my model look very convincing, and are the exact shade you will see on most paintings. My conclusion is that this is definitely the most beautiful and intricate kit I ever tackled, and is probably the best Victory kit available, including the wooden kits: absolutely great value for money. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: U-boat guns >> Can anyone tell me where I can get a 2 twin 20mm anti aircraft guns and 1,37mm anti aircraft gun in or around 1:32nd scale both with bases i can build the splinter sheilds but need the guns and bases, i am building a German U-Boat U-505 she is just short of 8 feet long and will be an operational model and need these guns badly for the conning tower she had no deck gun so all i need id the anti aircraft guns << John- You are building an operational submarine model? Get thee over to the SubCommittee site (www.SubCommittee.com). All your questions, including where to get those guns will be answered. Tom Dougherty (Display model columnist for the SubCommittee Report, our house submarine propaganda rag) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Why I build ship models Why I started I don't remember. I was very young and those memory cells seem to have gone missing. I remember building all sorts of models as a child, but when I began again as an adult I drifted into ships, though I have several non-ship models in my pile. I build them now out of a love for the sea. Despite having no relatives involved with any sea-faring related profession, I grew up wanting to sail the bounding main. The feel of a ship or boat as it flies across the waves absolutely delights me. My attempt at joining the USN was foiled by my faulty lungs, and my current financial status prohibits me from buying a boat, so I build ship models. I also work to support a former Navy vessel, the battleship New Jersey, now a museum, and the next time I get a chance I'm going to take a personal tour. Someday I will sail in my own 1 to 1 scale vessel. Joseph Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Allanparry Subject: Re: Akagi 'boot top' The Monografie Morskie Akagi book also shows colour drawings of Akagi with a black 'boot top' at her waterline. Also, although containing only black and white drawings, the three Kojinsha IJN CV publications depict all IJN CVs with a waterline 'boot top'. Allan Parry http://www.geocities.com/ijncv/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "William B. Smallshaw" Subject: Painting a PBR Any one want to comment of the color (colour) used on the USN PBRs? I have seen OD mentioned but the photographs I have seen look would make one think it is a deeper green. Any comment or suggestions on the correct paint to use? Thanks, Bill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: Why did you become a ship modeler Horatio Hornblower. Allan Plumb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: annobon4@aol.com Subject: Re: U/I carrier model Hi Guys Concerning John Emery's question about the Wasp, it might have been by Lindberg. The early carriers such as Ticonderoga and Wasp had cardboard hangar decks along with gun shields for the 20mm plus 100 planes with the kit. Revell also produced a Wasp with helicopters and ASW planes after they were SCBed with the angle deck. Also Renwell used to produce large carrier kits of modernized Essex class like the Shangri-la and Ticonderoga Perhaps you were building these John. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume