Subject: SMML VOL 1497 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 11:56:36 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Lindberg Minesweeper 2: Re: Uboat mounted WG 3: Newby questions about Trumpeter 1/350th RN Palo kit 4: Re: fatten up PE figures 5: WWII U.S. naval equipment 6: Plane colors on USS LANGLEY 7: Re: CALYPSO 8: Re: U-Boat mounted WG and vision? 9: Re: COUSTEAU'S CALYPSO 10: Werner Brumbach/U-boat mounted WG 11: Re: Vanguard Colours 12: Naval Art 13: Thanks All 14: Display cases 15: Re: Lindberg Minesweeper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Naval Art 2: Re: Schnellboot 3: Re: Naval Fittings Drawings -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: Lindberg Minesweeper >> While perusing their web page earlier I noticed they are releasing a 1/125 scale Admirable class minesweeper. Is this an old Lindberg model? In the past I recall NBH had the Lindberg LST repackaged for their own line. I suppose I could email NBH as well, but had a few questions. What's the quality if this kit? Is is on par with the 1/125 Fletcher? Does it have potential? << Rod, I have one in front of me. The most detailed thing about the kit is the 1976 box art! The hull has the steel plates "authentically" reproduced, as well as those on the decks and the sides of the deck houses. Yes, these features are really found aboard the type (I remember the old one in St. Louis) but they are nowhere near as prominent on a ship as they are on the model. A seam scraper will be your best & favorite tool. The 20 mm singles are pretty nice, and would have been really great if the splinter shields weren't part of the gun. The twin 40 mm guns are out of the Blue Devil kit. The 3" gun is there, but the base might be usable. There are also 2 .50 cal MG mounts. The sweep gear is acceptable. The whaleboat is kinda nice, if overdone. the little men are nicely done, but a little small for 1/125 (0.50" tall), at 1/125 the guy would be 5'3" (more like 1/140) but there is enough detail on the figures to make up for this. The guy is wearing a kapok and a tin hat and actually looks like a WW2 sailor! BTW, the kit scales out a 1/126.5 and I could find no indication in the Revell section of the Burns guide that they ever did this mold. James Corley AAA Hobby Supply email: aaahobby@earthlink.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: Uboat mounted WG >> I would not also call the idea of launching WG 41 rockets from Uboats "efficient". All of WG type rockets were an area bombardment weapons and deployment in large numbers was required to achieve desired effect. They were not accurate enough for pinpoint attacks even when mounted on relatively stable land carriages and platforms so what hope was there of scoring a hit on a particular port installation with limited number of rockets fired from a submerged boat???? Hitting a ship on the move with such a weapon (by design and not by pure luck) is beyond the realms of possibility IMO. << It is always tricky to think in terms of possible efficiency of a weapon or 'what if' scenarios in history, especially when dealing with the second world war, but I think mr. Przezdziekci is underestimating Hilter's regime here. Rockets launched from U-boats could reach the continental US with bacteria and nerve gas and would have had a targets as big as New York city. Hitler would have been counting on the psychological and political efects of such an action. Look at the effects of mr. Bin Laden on US policy decisions and you see what I mean. The allies were also waging this kind of warfare (area bombing). Hitler was a political gambler in the Machiavellian sense, which is an efficient strategy if you are fighting against strategically well organized and rational players like Stalin and Roosevelt. There are indications that he kept much of his staff deliberately disorganized for precisely that reason. And he lost the war in the area where he did keep rigidly to his strategic plans, which is the Russian campaign. Pieter Cornelissen Delft, The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "RAY MEHLBERGER" Subject: Newby questions about Trumpeter 1/350th RN Palo kit I just bought the Trumpeter 1/350th kit of the Italian WWII heavy cruiser PALO. I can see, instantly, from the box art that this puppy needs some railings and other things to make it better. Any suggestions as to who might make some? I am chiefly an armor nut...but this ship entrigued me soooooooo...... I also have nil info on this particular ship other than the fact it was sunk by it's own crew after being damaged. Can anyone fill in the gaps a bit? Last...and not least....oppinions as to this kit please. Please contact me at my e-mail address, instead of SMML, as I don't always read that daily. Thanks in advance for any help. Regards, Ray Mehlberger -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: david_l._miller@ccmail.wiu.edu Subject: Re: fatten up PE figures I have some 1/400 PE figures. The first time I read about them it was a discussion of fattening them. I never considered using them flat on a model. I immagine, too, that materials other than thick CA could be used to fatten them. I plan to try some thick acrylic craft paints or acrylic molding material. Dave Miller Macomb, IL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: WWII U.S. naval equipment >> I am looking for drawings (dimensioned preferred) of fixtures one would find aboard WWII-era US naval ships. By fixtures I mean mundane items such as portholes, airports, dogs on doors or hatches, hose brackets, battle announcing equipment and the like. Were there Navy specification or were they simply catalog items (OK, not the battle announcing equipment)? Any references would be greatly appreciated. << One excellent reference is The Floating Drydock's "FLETCHER Class Plans Book". Spendy, yes, but it's the #1 reference if you're building a FLETCHER as well as having literally hundreds of photos, drawings, sketches, and plans of a vast amount of U.S. Navy WWII equipment. This includes guns, ammunition lockers, gun directors, hatches, oil ports, gangways, ladders, torpedo directors, railings, depth charge racks and tracks, radars, stacks, platforms, hawser reels, floater nets, hose racks, firefighting stations, lights, davits, motor whaleboats, and so on. It's really more than you ever wanted to know. Over 130 pages in a large 11" x 16" landscape format. Recommended. http://www.floatingdrydock.com Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Nautical Research Guild Tin Can Sailors Friends of the battleship NORTH CAROLINA IPMS/USA #3345 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Darren Subject: Plane colors on USS LANGLEY I was looking at some photos of the USS LANGLEY and I noticed some color discrepancies on the group of planes on her deck. Now, I'm not an expert on Pre WWII US planes, but I thought most had yellow on the top wing. If you look at the following photo, http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g420000/g424475.jpg located on the US Naval History site, You'll notice a distinct difference between some of the aircraft and the top colours. What is the darker color? Are there any online sources that may show or tell what the colours are? Anywhere that would show what the individual squadron markings/colors would be? Thanks, Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: CALYPSO You can probably get the following book through inter-library loan. It will provide you with plenty of detail: Cousteau, Jacques and Alexis Sivirine. Jacques Cousteau's CALYPSO. (New York, NY: Harry N. Abrams. Inc.) 1983. ISBN 0-8109-0788-7 Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "michael thrupp" Subject: Re: U-Boat mounted WG and vision? My 2 cents worth to this debate (and to keep it on message I include some naval items) :- Which country produced the following :- First operational guided ballistic missile, first operational guided cruise missile, first operational jet fighter produced in quantity, first operational rocket fighter, first operational jet bomber, first true submarine ( i.e. more than just a submersible), first air to surface guided weapons, first naval ship-mounted surface radar, first true assault rifle produced in quantity, first air to air guided and unguided missiles, and first infra-red tank sights. Somehow someone somewhere in that country had the vision thing , and presumably did some planning? Regards Mike Thrupp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Re: COUSTEAU'S CALYPSO Hi Dan: A very good reference for detailing the Calypso is the book, "Jacques Cousteau's Calypso" by Jacques Cousteau and Alexis Siverine. It shows her in all phases from minesweeper, ferry and as the famous research ship. The ship's general arrangement plans (modern version) are shown on the inside covers and done up as illustrations in the text pages--nice stuff. Old National Geographics also had extensive coverage on the ship and Cousteau's work. Victor Baca Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Werner Brumbach/U-boat mounted WG Hello Werner, I am sorry if I wasn't clear enough in my post, it wasn't my intention to dismiss all wartime German designs as ill concevided or desperate. Reading throu my post again I also see that V1 and V2 was not a good example of what I had in mind. Fact is that while some of German designs of WWII were inspired (to name V1,V2 or Me262 as just a few examples), many of them weren't ( think of Dora railway gun, Natter interceptor or PzKpfw E-100 Maus) and I just think that the idea of mounting Wurfrahmen 41 on a U-boat can't be counted as inspired or even practical for the reasons given in my previous post. Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Vanguard Colours >> I got me the new B-Resina model of HMS Vanguard and want to paint it in her late 1940s colours (not colors, as she is a British ship ;-) ). My understanding is that the vertical surfaces were 507 C and the wooden part of the main deck (or is it the upper deck in British terms?) was unpainted. But what colour was the sloping fo'c'sel deck, and what colours were the upperwork decks? << Best picture refs I can find are in Garzke et al British, Soviet, French, and Dutch Battleships of World War II pub by Jane's in 1980. The main weather deck was planked. At time of completion the foredeck (forward of the first breakwater) appears to have been painted over in black but later pictures show this as worn away with the planks showing through. Certainly at the time of scrapping the black had been worn or holystoned away. Upperwork decks are more of a problem. They are of dark colour and most references say this was dark grey. They could, however, be semtex, a light coloured asphaltic material just coming into use and not to be confused with the explosive, when she was being built. This was often painted in which case the colour could have been blue or green . >> Also, in my understanding, the after part of the hull sides were straight down to the waterline. << The hull side was not completely vertical although very nearly so where it joined the transom stern. Again reference to Garzke will give you hull lines. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Graeme Martin Subject: Naval Art Hi Ron, Peter Wademan (from Sydney) who recently moved to Queenstown, New Zealand and is currently holding an exhibition in nearby Arrowtown is a very good marine artist. Also an excellent aviation artist. His email address is wademan@xtra.co.nz He has done a magnificent Tirpitz painting for me and also Yamato on her last sortie. Apart from being a very good draftsman, his knowledge, research and understanding of wind, tide and what the ship looked like on any given day in her career is the all important thing if wanting a factual representation. Write him and ask for prices on originals or commissions. You will be pleasantly surprised. The man is very good. Graeme Martin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Ron Schmitt" Subject: Thanks All Thank you SMML for the intel on the prints. Now I can not only go broke buying resin and PE, I can decorate the walls of my hovel with fine art. Ron -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Chris & Lulu Langtree" Subject: Display cases Hi All Many thanks to everyone who responded both on and off list to my request for information on display cases Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: Lindberg Minesweeper Hi SMMLies, Funny thing, someone mentioned about the old Lindberg Minesweeper. I must build one of those for a client who absolutely thinks its the greatest thing since sliced bread. He thinks I can bang this one out in a weekend. boy does he have news coming ! I thought about sanding the hull plates off and even scribing the planks. we'll see what he wants to spend. I guess it can be made into something nice if you put allot of hours in it. I'll keep you posted, Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: airartcsb@juno.com Subject: Naval Art I am good source of naval art :) I also do commission work check out my site at www.kcshop.com/airartcsb. I also trade prints for resin kits. Best wishes C. S. Bailey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Schnellboot >> Also another tid-bit. Today I just received the Revell 1/72nd Schnellboot, and first impressions are terrific! I'm no S-Boat expert, but this example looks extremely good to me. I'll try to pass more info on later, has anyone else dove into this kit yet ? I have no doubt this will be a popular kit with plenty of room for superdetailers to go wild. And in case anyone is interested, there is a nice little site for the S-Boats I recently found at: << The 1/72 Revell Germany kit of the S-100 is really good. The detail parts are small and very fine. Guns are good. Hull shape is good. The deck detail parts, while some are molded on, are really good. Instructions are great. As with all boats or ships, no two are identical, some persons may find discrepancies, but I did not think there really are any faults except one. It is a major one. When you look at the propellors, you will say, out loud, due to the shock, "What the heck are those dastardly things?" Not my exact words, but that's the "G" ratted version. They are way off. In fact, they dont even look like propellors. It just so happens that the propellors from my kit of the 1/192 USS Sims has the correct blade size and pitch, so I will put together a set of propellors to correct this problem. They should become available in late February. Overall I give the kit a big thumbs up. It is really good. I am hearing rumors that the first run of 5000 kits has sold out in Europe, so that is why there is a delay in getting the kit here in the USA. For reference, my book on the Schnellboote, S-boat, E-boat, etc., will be back from the printers in one week. Your local hobby dealer or favorite mail order vendor should have them two weeks after that. For those of you who have purchased my previous books, (thanks!) you are in for a treat. I feel this is the best book I have yet put together. It ended up at 72 pages, 8 of those in color, 163 black & white photos, 9 color photos, 14 color illustrations (4 plan & 10 profile views) and 23 sets of line drawings of plan & profile views of almost every variant and most of the weapons. The book covers all German built S-boats starting with S-1 thru S-709. It will be a great reference for both the 1/72 kits, the Airfix S-10 and the Revell/Germany S-100, and also the White Ensign Models 1/350 resin kits of various S-boats. Because of the amount of stuff I was able to shoe horn into the book, one will be able to convert most kits into almost any variant desirable. Thanks, Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Re: Naval Fittings Drawings Hi Doug: We are collecting naval fitting info from manuals and archived plan collections. These we place inside the back cover of each issue of Model Ship Journal. For instance, in the Winter 2002 issue (if you don't have it yet--y'all don't jump on your keyboards, it's in the mail!) we published a drawing of the standard shipboard Stokes Litter showing all the fittings and flotation arrangement for highline use that you're not like to find in standard photoetch sets showing this appliance. look for much more things such as bulkhead fire fighting stations, bitts, chocks etc. in the future. Also plan to run merchant ship fittings and some commercially available ones as well--most ships specify 'off-the-shelf' items these days and that was also the case in some WWII classes. Anyone with drawings, let me know and we'll run in Model Ship Journal (originals always returned). Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume