Subject: SMML VOL 1531 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:04:23 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: AOE Main Propulsion Plants 2: Re: UNREPs and AOEs 3: APR-3 USS Burleigh 4: Re: T SUBS RN 5: Re: UNREPs and AOEs 6: UNREPs and AOEs 7: Re: India to get "new" carrier 8: USS Canberra's bell 9: Tamiya 1/350 King George V 1945 color scheme 10: S-100 Schnelleboote 11: Ship painting question 12: Re: UNREPS and AOE's 13: Airbrushes 14: fittings mercator models 15: Re: HMAS Sydney/Kormoron kits 16: USN Slang 1941, Parts H - K 17: Re: UNREPs and AOEs 18: Turner Publications USS California (BB-44) 19: Book Watch 20: Better than Dremel? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: IPMS/USA discussion group -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 25% DISCOUNT! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Joel Labow Subject: AOE Main Propulsion Plants >> One item that I picked up somewhere years ago is that the first AOEs (a combination oiler and ammunition ship) used the main engines originally built for the Montana class BBs. They got 2 per ship while the Montanas would have gotten 4 each. Read that some where years and years ago. << Not quite. The Montana class BBs were never laid down and no main propulsion equipment was ever built for them. The Camden class AOEs had hull forms based on the Iowa class BBs and each received half of the main propulsion equipment of the two unfinished Iowas (Kentucky and Illinois). For all of their service life they were the fastest auxiliaries in the fleet with speeds of 25-26 knots. Joel Labow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: UNREPs and AOEs Jim, Close, but no cigar. Two AOE's (the SACRAMENTO and CAMDEN I believe) inherited the propulsion plants originally installed in the incomplete Iowa cl BB KENTUCKY (BB-65). You're right in that the four units installed in the BB were divided between the two ships. None of the Montana cl ships were laid down, so there weren't any propulsion units to hand down. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Douglas Burleigh Subject: APR-3 USS Burleigh Looking for information on APR-3 USS Burleigh. The Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships note that her contract was canceled in 3/43 prior to keel laying. Haven't been able to locat any information on her or her sisters. Any help would be appreciated. Doug -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: Re: T SUBS RN In reference to the question about the photoetched handrails that a model of the RN T-class subs would have had fitted, these statements also apply to adjacent S-class. The traditional deck-edge railings for wither sub were generally only used when they were on their trial's period of working up, or they were in home waters for an extended maintenance period. When at sea or operational, the only photographs that show any sembalnce of a safety wire is a temporary single center-line railing cable that seems to have been raised and hooked up to the conning tower or gun platform railing. From the many photographs in the book "HM SUBMARINES IN CAMERA (contact me offline for a copy) there are about twenty to thirty photographs of these boats showing the crew with and without this single life-line in place when there are any crew members on the decks. A good assumption could be made for this single line being used for all the boats that operated in the Far East where they mainly operated on the surface with their deck-guns as armament. This same mentioned book also illustrates the Far East camouflage scheme that these boats used while operating on the surface. Harold Stockton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Gordon E. Hogg" Subject: Re: UNREPs and AOEs For Jim Johnson/AOE thread: The first two AOEs, Sacramento (AOE-1) and Camden (AOE-2) have powerplants originally fitted in the never-completed Iowa-class battleship Kentucky (BB-66). They each use two of the original four GE turbines that were salvaged before the poor old Kentucky was finally sold for scrap in 1959. If it's not honking the horn too loudly: There is a brief account of this in my article on BB-66 for U.S. Naval Institute Proceedings (October 2001, p. 88-92.), as well in several sources I mention in the notes. Gordon Hogg Lexington, Kentucky USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Kevin W. Woodruff" Subject: UNREPs and AOEs Actually the USS Sacramento (AOE-1) and the USS Camden (AOE-2) engines were from the Iowa class USS Kentucky (BB-66) which was cancelled in 1947 when 72.1% complete. Kevin W. Woodruff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Re: India to get "new" carrier From: "Andrew Jones" >> India will accquire a Russian aircraft carier & longe aircraft in a deal unveiled on Friday. They will lease 2 Tu-22m supersonic bombers & buy a refurbished aircraft carrier. The Aircraft accarier is the Admiral Gorshkov. The 2 countries have been discussing the carrier for more then 2 years. The technical discussions on the carrier have been completed & price negotiations are what need to be done. It is unsure when the carrier will be taken over. << As I've said before, I'll believe it when I see it. We've seen this same announcement before. It'll take two years to rebuild her. Also the Kievs were never very reliable. They've suffered engine fires more than once. India is also planning to build a carrier indigenously, which they claim will be ready by 2009. So even if they start work later this year, the ship won't be ready until 2004. She might serve as an interim vessel, allowing them to retire Viraat, but if I were India I'd save the money and spend it on their new carrier. Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: louellet@uism.bu.edu Subject: USS Canberra's bell I went to the SMML web site and read the story of the USS Canberra' bell being presented to Australia's Prime Minister John Howard by US President George Bush. The story mentioned that the bell was tracked to a Naval Store in Virginia. I am assuming 'Store' here means warehouse or storage facility and not a retail store. The US Navy does not scrap ships bells, they are removed before the ship is sent to the scrappers. I also believe that the Navy does not sell to bells to anyone. Most are donated to the namesake city or state, loaned to museums, or stored away for safekeeping. Sometime in the late 1990's the USS Canberra's (CAG 2) bell made its way to the USNSM (USS Salem) and was displayed for the last few years in our US Navy Cruiser Sailors Association Memorial Room. Late last summer, The US Navy called to say they were taking the bell back. They didn't say anything else. Then in September there were the news stories that the bell had been presented to Australia. I'm sure the bell will be appreciated in it's new home. All the best from the previous caretakers, Larry Ouellette, Volunteer USS Salem (CA 139) United States Naval Shipbuilding Museum Quincy, Massachusetts, USA http://www.uss-salem.org/ New England Patriots, Super Bowl XXXVI Champions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Dick Wood" Subject: Tamiya 1/350 King George V 1945 color scheme Folks: I am currently building this model and I want to paint in in the 1945 scheme. The instructions list Tamiya colors and I am very suspect of them. I want to use WEM Colorcoat but I need to know which ones to order. I really need the vertical surface color, and the deck color, not the wood color. Thanks in advance Dick Wood -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: S-100 Schnelleboote >> 2) I am hearing from my friends in Deutscheland that the new S-100 kit from Revell Germany has possibly sold out of the first run of 5000 kits in Europe. << Only 5000 kits? I always wondered what the production run of any model is. 5000 seems a small number considering SMML already has 1200 subscribers and there are thousands of hobbyists worldwide who never heard of SMML. That said what is a reasonable production run for a book, a new kit, a new tool and any item. Some guesstimates. Say the S-100 kit costs $20. 5000kits x $20 =$100,000 gross. Considering the complexity of the injection mold $100k would probably not cover the cost of making the mold. What about research and the engineering design of the kit? Anyone out there who is knowledgeable can give us a run down on the backroom business side of this hobby? Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Doug Bauer" Subject: Ship painting question I'm getting ready to send my scratchbuilt 1:96 scale German Vorpostenboot to the paint shop, but I'd like to try a new (for me) method of adding shadows. I want to paint the entire ship in a dark gray - probably Floquil's Harbor Mist Gray or even darker - making sure to get the color in all the nooks and crannies....then overspray with a very light Kriegsmarine gray, taking care not to cover those aforementioned nooks and crannies. I'm hoping the end result will be a nicely shaded effect that will obviate the need for washes or lots of drybrushing. Before I actually try this method I'm wondering if anyone has used it, and with what measure of success. Doug Bauer Poway, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: Re: UNREPS and AOE's It was my understanding that the first 2 AOE's Camden and Sacramento, each got 2 of the 4 engine rooms of the Kentucky, the last of the Iowas which was canceled when quite far along. I had a customer who was the assistant engineering officer in charge of one of the two engine rooms of Camden. He told me, perhaps with some exaggeration, that they would sail in the afternoon from Norfolk, Virginia and be off Fort Lauderdale, Florida the next afternoon. My trusty road map shows that to be over 900 land miles, which would be about 37 miles per hour, about 32 knots. My question to the old hands. Would that be possible for a ship that type and size? If it is, what else does the Navy understate? The speed of nuclear carriers? How about the submerged speed and diving depth of the nuclear submarines? Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "John E. Fail" Subject: Airbrushes I have no idea what any of us did for advice and help before SMML existed. How did we ever get such great help before then. My thanks to Shane for maintaining this system. Where else can you go, ask a question and get 30 replies from experts in such a short time? SMML is a fantastic system! I am very grateful to all of those who sent me direct help and via SMML. All of it was most valuable and led me to buy a Aztek 470 airbrush and an AC-200 compressor with everything else under the sun that I will need. In my search of the internet it was clear that Model Expo had the best price on the 470 airbrush set (the one in the wooden case) at $89.95 and a sale on the compressor was at $199.95. The one thing that came through loud and clear was don't use the air cans. Too expensive and limiting. Having a pressure gauge and drain tap certainly was advocated. In addition sticking with it on practice was impressed on me. Again, thanks to all for the great help. John Fail QMC U.S. Coast Guard (Retired) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: ADRIANIAN@aol.com Subject: fittings mercator models pls can you tell me where if possible i can obtain masts etc for:- QUEEN MARY, QUEEN ELIZABETH SS FRANCE AND MARITANIA MOVING HOUSES MEANS LOSS OF THESE ITEMS AND BREAKAGES -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: HMAS Sydney/Kormoron kits >> I recall on the White Ensign models web site under NNT , there was a Sydney/Kormoran ship set for about 50 pounds or so..was going to buy it, but never got round to it. But a couple of montsh ago it was taken off the catalogue & the web site.. Maybe the people @ White ensign models could shed some more light on who actually releases it & has it finished or has been delayed for some reason. << The kits were to be from NNT, but we have taken them off our lists as, insofar as we know, they have been cancelled or delayed indefinitely. Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: John Snyder Subject: USN Slang 1941, Parts H - K "Hash Marks: service stripes." "down the Hatch: a signal for the stomach to brace itself against an incoming slug of rum." "Have legs: speed it." "Heave in sight: to appear in the distance." "Hell cats: the bugle corps." "Hit the beach: ashore on leave." [Note: in the 1960s USN this was the term for liberty, not leave.] "Hit the pavement: go ashore." "Honey barge: garbage barge." "put in a Hop: befuddled." "Horse fly: a sailor who is fickle about women and not very choosy." "git a Hump on you: speed up." "have you got a Hump on you?: stake me to a cigarette." "Irish pennants: sloppy loose ends which should be tucked in." "smokestack Jag: feigning intoxication after 2 beers. Practiced by very young recruits to convince themselves that they are old salts." "Jimmylegs: master-at-arms." "Joe Gish: any sailor." "Joy ride: trip to the naval hospital in an ambulance." "Kanooing: a sailor's recreation. He gets away from it all by hunting up a lake where they rent boats; rows all afternoon in the hot sun, falls overboard and has to be rescued." "Katzenjammers: the shakes the morning after." "Kick-out: a dishonorable discharge, often called a Yellow Ticket." Cheers, John Snyder The Token Yank White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: UNREPs and AOEs >> One item that I picked up somewhere years ago is that the first AOEs (a combination oiler and ammunition ship) used the main engines originally built for the Montana class BBs. They got 2 per ship while the Montanas would have gotten 4 each. Read that some where years and years ago. << That's correct. SACRAMENTO (AOE-1) and CAMDEN (AOE-2) got their main engines from the never-completed KENTUCKY. Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Turner Publications USS California (BB-44) I first saw this book offered at Turner Publications website a couple of years ago. After numerous attempts to find a used copy, I broke down and bought it new from them for a little over $57 total (incl shipping and w/10% first time customer discount). After obtaining copies of Myron's "Golden State Battlewagon", "Profile Morskie #6 USS California", George Gruner's "Blue Water Beat", and Theodore Mason's "Battleship Sailor", this remained the last book on the Prune Barge (that I'm aware of) I had yet to aquire. Thus, it was a must-get on my list. The book just arrived, so I haven't had time to read it, but I thought I'd offer a first impression review. General information: USS California (BB-44) Turner Publishing Company (no author given) Copyright 1995 ISBN: 1-56311-252-3 List Price $52.97 This is a somewhat large 9x12-in hardback book w/112 pages. There are no plans whatsoever (drats). The photos of the ship itself are too blurry to be of much use as a modeling reference. In fact, most of the photos are of the crew. Contents wise, it looks to be an interesting read if you're a dedicated Prune Barge fan. My first impression after giving it a good skimming-over is this book would serve as a good supplement to Theodore Mason's "Battleship Sailor." Much of the book is written in the form of recollections of former crew members. It even has a yearbook-like section in the back with photos and bios of former crew members of the ship. If you're looking for the definitive history of the ship, George Gruner's "Blue Water Beat: The Two Lives of the Battleship California" would be a better pick. I found a numbered used copy for slightly less than this book, and it contains approximately twice as much material. If you're looking for a modeling reference, Myron J Smith's "Golden State Battlewagon USS California (BB-44) and "Proflie Morskie #6 USS California" would probably serve you a lot better (and they're far less expensive to boot). Just keep in mind the plans in the latter aren't 100% accurate (ya gotta do your research to figure out what's right and what's not). Of course...FWIW, YMMV. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "John Rule" Subject: Book Watch I just received a new book from Italy. This is a very nice book for anyone with an interest in the Reggia Marina. It is a book of photographs taken by Aldo Fraccaroli between 1933 and 1993. The photos are excellent and the quality of reproduction is very high. The photo captions which are quite long are in Italian, which I guess is not unusual for an Italian book. Once you have mastered a few words it is not too difficult to get the gist of the captions. Some latin is helpful. I find the photos to be fairly comprehensive in covering the units of the RM good coverage from the battleships down to the small combatants. There are even a couple of nice pictures of MAS boats with the red and white striping on the foredeck. Coverage does extend into the modern Italian Navy and there are even a few photos of foreign ships from the US 6th Fleet and even a photo of the Turkish destroyer Piyale Pasha (ex HMS Meteor). The book cost 31 Euros and was obtained on line through Italian Kits. www.italiankits.it and although I don't think that it is necessarily the norm, they sent me a complimentary copy of Marina Militare 2000. I hope "omaggio" means complimentary and not that I have committed to send one of my children to become a gladiator or something. Anyway the magazine is a full colour coverage of the modern Italian Navy with some excellent views of Destroyers, Frigates, Carrier, Assault Ship, Replenishment Ships, support aircraft and helicopters. Very nice. Incidentally the book of Fraccaroli photos is hardbound has 120 pages and approximately 300 B & W photographs. It comes in cardboard sleeve which is a nice touch, helping to preserve the book's condition. Sincerely, John Rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Boatbldr Subject: Better than Dremel? Hi folks Does anyone know of any manufacturer who makes a more reliable, harder, tougher, longer lasting router bit than Dremels? 99% of the routers out there do not use the 1/8 inch shank that Dremel uses, and Dremels router bits use HSS, which is blunt and useless after half a second! Any ideas? P.S. For those who fear I have gone over to the dark side into sticks and strings and away from plastic - fear not - this is to make my own bases. And even if I did venture there, Kerry would help me come to terms with myself (or at least he would try) regards Boatbldr -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: IPMS/USA discussion group I just joined a very interesting discussion group. It's a group who discuses IPMS/USA issues. The great thing about this group is that it's well moderated. You must be an IPMS/USA member to join. So we don't get the usual whine and gripe non/anti-IPMS crowd you see on RMS. I have been participating for a few days now and there's no flame, name calling etc. Just reasonable debate (like here). Quite refreshing! It took me about 20 minutes to go through the joining up process at Yahoo, but it was well worth it. Check it out at: IPMSUSAroundtable Rusty White 2003 IPMS/USA National Convention Chairman OKC IN 2003! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Tom & Carolyn Harrison" Subject: 25% DISCOUNT! In our ongoing effort to provide the highest quality photo-etched brass products, at the lowest possible price, we are pleased to announce our new "secure" on-line ordering service. To celebrate our new website, we are offering a 25% discount to the first 25 customers using the new shopping-cart feature. Don't forget - in 2002, we've reduced shipping charges. See website http://www.tomsmodelworks.com for details. Thanks for your continued support....... Tom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume